Why Didn't Bioware Innovate Anything in SW:TOR - ESPECIALLY in the End-game?

[Xugos]

Wow easiest question ever

 

Awesome compelling unique story each class has

 

No, not quite. Each class has a minor side-story chain that doesn't even grant them most of the experience required to level up. Most of your experience comes from generic, "hey, do me a favor and I'll give you some soup" quests.

 

WoW had class quests as well, and dear I say, they were quite marvelous, unique, and compelling.

 

 

Try again.

[Juntts]

hey guys lets compare a 7 year old mmo to one thats been out 1 month.

 

If you haven't noticed, that's what 99% of the threads on the SWTOR forums are about...Just saying...

[Forsbacka]

They made direct WoW copy cause thats where the money is. EA is in this business for very same reason as Activision, only to make money.

[Daedricshots]

If you haven't noticed, that's what 99% of the threads on the SWTOR forums are about...Just saying...

 

Thats why we need a clean up on isle 3.

[Xugos]

They made direct WoW copy cause thats where the money is. EA is in this business for very same reason as Activision, only to make money.

 

Yeah, but historically, that's not where the money has. Every single WoW clone has failed. Why on earth did EA think this one wouldn't fail?

[Joonbeams]

Direct me to the post in which I claimed to "hate SW:TOR."

 

 

I want this game to succeed, which is my criticisms are, and have been before launch, unrelenting.

 

This. I think this is the point many are missing. The "complaints" are because we want the game to be better, not because we hate the game.

[Juntts]

They made direct WoW copy cause thats where the money is. EA is in this business for very same reason as Activision, only to make money.

 

Have they made all the money back yet?

[Juntts]

Yeah, but historically, that's not where the money has. Every single WoW clone has failed. Why on earth did EA think this one wouldn't fail?

 

Because it's Star Wars. That's seriously the ONLY reason.

[Xugos]

Because it's Star Wars. That's seriously the ONLY reason.

 

That should worry many people. There have literally been DOZENS of Star Wars games that have failed abysmally over the years.

[Forsbacka]

Have they made all the money back yet?

 

 

 

No and i doubt they will, time will tell.

[CupieFoxtail]

Look at your class.

If you are a smuggler or a trooper, you have a energy system that is far more complex and interesting than anything in WoW. All the time, you have a choice between burst damage and sustained damage. If you choose burst your sustained will be penalized, and vice versa

 

If you are a gunslinger smuggler, you have a cover system. You can tank ranged gun mobs and take no damage. You have to choose between moving and doing lower damage and having a better chance of surviving, or committing to a spot to do more damage.

 

So yeah, as a gunslinger, the class mechanics at all levels are INCREDIBLY innovative

 

Oh, and operations drop loot bags

And RNG based PvP loot

And story based instances with choices that can change your group's path to some extent

Edited January 8, 2012 by CupieFoxtail

[Juntts]

No and i doubt they will, time will tell.

 

I've heard from a few people on the forums that they HAVE. Which I still don't believe. I mean, how could they make the 300 million dollars back in just a month? I swear people lie all the time.

[Romiz]

It can always be noted. If you think can make a better MMO get the 50-200 million and make it. Market it then keep it running.

 

Then after it is complete guess what people will pick it apart too. And this game does have Innovation and a good end game. Remember it is a totally new MMO and MMOs takes years to develop. You do not release all the content in the 1st year. But spread it out over 5 to 10 years.

Edited January 8, 2012 by Romiz

[Juntts]

Look at your class.

If you are a smuggler or a trooper, you have a energy system that is far more complex and interesting than anything in WoW. All the time, you have a choice between burst damage and sustained damage. If you choose burst your sustained will be penalized, and vice versa

 

If you are a gunslinger smuggler, you have a cover system. You can tank ranged gun mobs and take no damage. You have to choose between moving and doing lower damage and having a better chance of surviving, or committing to a spot to do more damage.

 

So yeah, as a gunslinger, the class mechanics at all levels are INCREDIBLY innovative

 

Oh, and operations drop loot bags

And RNG based PvP loot

And story based instances with choices that can change your group's path to some extent

 

Not to be mean here, but the cover system sucks lol. I unfortunately picked an Imperial Agent, and was forced to take cover like a pansy.

[bludwork]

Why do people who play wow think there should only be one MMO in existence? i never understood this.

 

And how is this even a complaint thread? Troll demands us to tell him how the game is innovative?

[Astron_]

By the way, you do realize WoW hasn't innovated -anything- in the MMO market other than destroying the nature of MMO's by handing everything to people on a platter and not requiring them to work for it?

 

EVERYTHING WoW has was taken from other games in the genre. I do not fault them for that -- it's a genre.

 

I don't fault SW:TOR either. Neither should you. If you dislike the very different immersion/linear storyline experience of SW:TOR, don't play it. Stop trying to get everyone else to swallow your opinions. We're not going to. Ever.

 

Work for it? I already have a *********** job! I play games on my spare time to have fun, not to bore myself to tears to get a piece of improved gear on my character. There are more than enough grinding in WoW still. Your point is horrible.

[Juntts]

It can always be noted. If you think can make a better MMO get the 50-200 million and make it. Market it then keep it running.

 

Then after it is complete guess what people will pick it apart too. And this game does have Innovation and a good end game. Remember it is a totally new MMO and MMOs takes years to develop. You do not release all the content in the 1st year. But spread it out over 5 to 10 years.

 

Well no one is going to wait 5-10 years for good content to come out.

[Vecke]

You treat innovation like it should be the goal instead of the means. That's the exact opposite of what innovation should be.

 

Innovation should NEVER be included in a game (or anything) because someone thinks it "needs" to be there. If you create something and then think, "We need to do something new and innovative with this," then you really shouldn't try anything new or innovative.

 

Innovation comes from recognizing a need and creating something original to fill that need.

 

It's a means, not a goal.

 

And you need something that needs to be done but doesn't exist... be innovative and create it. If you just want to create a very high quality version of something that already exists, then innovation should NOT be a goal. Quality should.

 

I personally think having an MMO completely story based where EVERY quest is delivered through spoken dialogue is quite an innovative approach to the market. Since it's something that nobody has ever done before, that kind of defines innovative to me...

 

But you disagree, which is fine. Even if that is not innovative, it's still a mistake to include innovation in a game just because you want to have something innovative. It defeats the entire point of innovation.

 

Disclaimer: The preceding comment was purely my opinion, I offer no facts and fully admit that I could be wrong. I was wrong once before, in 1984, so I admit it's entirely possible I could be wrong again.

[Eria]

I'm waiting to see what happens with the game, but I generally agree.

 

Now, if this was a few years ago when I had nothing but time to kill on an MMO, I would be bored pretty fast, but I start up class again next week so I'll be a weekend warrior and hopefully there will still be something to do.

 

I will say though, I see the same issues at end game. I just hit 50 a few days ago, and it's either sit around on the fleet and look for a FP grp, or PvP. Also, it's rather disheartening to always see, "LF2M Tank and Healer" so much in general chat. When they announced the combat mechanics, I knew this was going to happen. I know people want dual spec, but I don't really like it, but I'm starting to see how it could be cool to have.

 

Also, my friend leveled up an dark side assassin and I went light side on my sorc. We compared stories, and it there were only minor differences. The end sequence was pretty much the same. That's pretty lazy if you ask me. Also, not once that I can remember, did a choice I made have a glaring effect on the story. I started up an alt yesterday, and I'm already space baring their the side quest cus they are all the same. Actually, I did it on my Sorc because they are all the same. They have no effect on the story, and it gets old trying to solve everyone's problems.

 

But you have to look at the players involved in this game, and what is at stake. EA wants to put Activision into the ground. You see them going after CoD with BF3, and they want to go after WoW with this game. They think they can beat them at their own game, but they won't be able to. EA NEEDS to get a successful MMO out, they need a slice of that pie...so they went the lazy/easy route and copy pasted most of the game. It's the same thing you see in this age of sequels...no innovation at all anymore from the AAA studios.

Edited January 8, 2012 by Eria

[Juntts]

You treat innovation like it should be the goal instead of the means. That's the exact opposite of what innovation should be.

 

Innovation should NEVER be included in a game (or anything) because someone thinks it "needs" to be there. If you create something and then think, "We need to do something new and innovative with this," then you really shouldn't try anything new or innovative.

 

Innovation comes from recognizing a need and creating something original to fill that need.

 

It's a means, not a goal.

 

And you need something that needs to be done but doesn't exist... be innovative and create it. If you just want to create a very high quality version of something that already exists, then innovation should NOT be a goal. Quality should.

 

I personally think having an MMO completely story based where EVERY quest is delivered through spoken dialogue is quite an innovative approach to the market. Since it's something that nobody has ever done before, that kind of defines innovative to me...

 

But you disagree, which is fine. Even if that is not innovative, it's still a mistake to include innovation in a game just because you want to have something innovative. It defeats the entire point of innovation.

 

Disclaimer: The preceding comment was purely my opinion, I offer no facts and fully admit that I could be wrong. I was wrong once before, in 1984, so I admit it's entirely possible I could be wrong again.

 

Agreed. But BioWare took so much time with the story and voice-acting, that they didn't even make the rest of the game any good.

[AchYm]

No, not quite. Each class has a minor side-story chain that doesn't even grant them most of the experience required to level up. Most of your experience comes from generic, "hey, do me a favor and I'll give you some soup" quests.

 

WoW had class quests as well, and dear I say, they were quite marvelous, unique, and compelling.

 

 

Try again.

 

just make it plain obvious you're a WoW fan boy. I never cared anything about the story in my qeusts when leveling in WoW it was boring and you did the same over and over again.

 

Here I am enjoying questing and taking my time to do the quests and taking time to follow the story.

[Romiz]

Well no one is going to wait 5-10 years for good content to come out.

 

That is in fact false. If that was the case World of Warcraft would not be around.

[Xugos]

You treat innovation like it should be the goal instead of the means. That's the exact opposite of what innovation should be.

 

Innovation should NEVER be included in a game (or anything) because someone thinks it "needs" to be there. If you create something and then think, "We need to do something new and innovative with this," then you really shouldn't try anything new or innovative.

 

Innovation comes from recognizing a need and creating something original to fill that need.

 

It's a means, not a goal.

 

And you need something that needs to be done but doesn't exist... be innovative and create it. If you just want to create a very high quality version of something that already exists, then innovation should NOT be a goal. Quality should.

 

I personally think having an MMO completely story based where EVERY quest is delivered through spoken dialogue is quite an innovative approach to the market. Since it's something that nobody has ever done before, that kind of defines innovative to me...

 

But you disagree, which is fine. Even if that is not innovative, it's still a mistake to include innovation in a game just because you want to have something innovative. It defeats the entire point of innovation.

 

Disclaimer: The preceding comment was purely my opinion, I offer no facts and fully admit that I could be wrong. I was wrong once before, in 1984, so I admit it's entirely possible I could be wrong again.

 

 

In the traditional sense, innovation is a cure to a previous uncured problem. In the MMO world, however, a lack of innovations means a lack of success because a lack of innovation means that there's no real incentive for players to play your MMO over an existing one.

[Xugos]

just make it plain obvious you're a WoW fan boy. I never cared anything about the story in my qeusts when leveling in WoW it was boring and you did the same over and over again.

 

Here I am enjoying questing and taking my time to do the quests and taking time to follow the story.

 

It's your fault you never read the quest text. I read the text and I understood the story amazingly well.

[Juntts]

I'm waiting to see what happens with the game, but I generally agree.

 

Now, if this was a few years ago when I had nothing but time to kill on an MMO, I would be bored pretty fast, but I start up class again next week so I'll be a weekend warrior and hopefully there will still be something to do.

 

I will say though, I see the same issues at end game. I just hit 50 a few days ago, and it's either sit around on the fleet and look for a FP grp, or PvP. Also, it's rather disheartening to always see, "LF2M Tank and Healer" so much in general chat. When they announced the combat mechanics, I knew this was going to happen. I know people want dual spec, but I don't really like it, but I'm starting to see how it could be cool to have.

 

Also, my friend leveled up an dark side assassin and I went light side on my sorc. We compared stories, and it there were only minor differences. The end sequence was pretty much the same. That's pretty lazy if you ask me. Also, not once that I can remember, did a choice I made have a glaring effect on the story. I started up an alt yesterday, and I'm already space baring their the side quest cus they are all the same. Actually, I did it on my Sorc because they are all the same. They have no effect on the story, and it gets old trying to solve everyone's problems.

 

But you have to look at the players involved in this game, and what is at stake. EA wants to put Activision into the ground. You see them going after CoD with BF3, and they want to go after WoW with this game. They think they can beat them at their own game, but they won't be able to. EA NEEDS to get a successful MMO out, they need a slice of that pie...so they went the lazy/easy route and copy pasted most of the game. It's the same thing you see in this age of sequels...no innovation at all anymore from the AAA studios.

 

And that's why people hate EA. All they care about is money.

 

You know what's funny? I live right next to the EA building. So close, in fact, that I'm looking at the EA HQ as I type this message. I can egg them if you want