[Guide] Juggernaut Guide to PVP, PVE, Leveling - Updated for 1.2

[Kyuubil]

Think im gonna respec for rage right now... it just seems counter intuitive to me... wouldnt a marauder do it just as well if not better than us?

 

Im lvl 47, just tried vengeance but have been all immortal since level 20 or so

 

Nope.jpg.

 

Single saber mastery = 6% more damage comes out to -1% from 5 stacks of juyo form (.. if that's what they're using) then decimate, which is a whopping 30% damage boost ofr force sweep, which .. yea,.

[Hustletron]

While this is a good thread, there are quite a few at this point and not nearly as many on actual level 50 tanking gear pre hard mode/pre ops etc etc.

 

Personally, I feel I'm pretty well geared for Hard modes as I've tanked quite a few but occasionally will get some pubstar healers claiming they are having trouble healing hard modes because some of my gear is "level 49" even though I have 26% shield chance, 25% absorb, 14570 hp unbuffed, and 25% defense chance and 102% accuracy.

 

On the flip side I run Hard modes with my normal group of buddies and never have issues.

 

The Modding isnt as much a problem as finding Ear pieces, bracers, belts, shield generators, etc etc., basically the stuff that doesn't usually have mods and that can't be upgraded by replacing the existing mods as you find better ones.

 

Regardless this thread is full of great info for leveling and aspiring tanks!

Edited January 8, 2012 by Hustletron

[Morsexy]

While this is a good thread, there are quite a few at this point and not nearly as many on actual level 50 tanking gear pre hard mode/pre ops etc etc.

 

Personally, I feel I'm pretty well geared for Hard modes as I've tanked quite a few but occasionally will get some pubstar healers claiming they are having trouble healing hard modes because some of my gear is "level 49" even though I have 26% shield chance, 25% absorb, 14570 hp unbuffed, and 25% defense chance and 102% accuracy.

 

On the flip side I run Hard modes with my normal group of buddies and never have issues.

 

The Modding isnt as much a problem as finding Ear pieces, bracers, belts, shield generators, etc etc., basically the stuff that doesn't usually have mods and that can't be upgraded by replacing the existing mods as you find better ones.

 

Regardless this thread is full of great info for leveling and aspiring tanks!

 

Thanks! I went artifice, has a great blue quality and then purple quality shield generator. In all honesty doing the PVP weekly\dailies for Warzones and Ilum is the best way to get 2-4 pieces of gear without much effort that will help your gearing issues (avoiding back luck on double pieces hopefully) quite a bit.

 

 

One thing I notice when I've run a pug, is people assist the tank a lot, which is good... except in this game they sort of expect the dps to go off and solo the normals in heroic flashpoints while the tank holds the elite\ 2 strongs on him. If they dont kill those normals the tank gets DESTROYED.

 

This can be a very subtle yet key distinction on the perception of 'great' or 'crappy' tanks.

Edited January 8, 2012 by Morsexy

[Morsexy]

If there are any sections people want me to add, let me know! And if you liked the thread, please sticky.

[WEMP]

Maybe it's the same or very close to a different spec but Rage rotation? I am only 21 right now, but knowing what I am working my way to rotation wise would be awesome!

[Zippythebluegoat]

hrmedit Edited January 9, 2012 by Zippythebluegoat

[Xtrema]

I might've missed this on your guide, but what are the priority of stats we should be looking for with gear? I'm guessing it's Strength, followed by...?

 

I'm also struggling on Taris a bit, can't solo most of the elites and wondering if it's my gear. It's usually very close, the elite has minimal health left but I just can't finish it. I know somethings wrong with my jugg when I saw a marauder at lvl33 with 7600hp and I'm level 37 with 7500hp lol. Unless this is different when a jugg is rage spec'd? But most of my gear has level requirement of 31ish and have strength boosts, and the last time I ran a FP was mandalorian raid, is it time to hit a new FP and gear up? Or is it something else?

[Zerbak]

You gave a good guide, but seeing as you labeled this as a "comprehensive guide" to the Juggernaut class, I feel you didn't do some of the other specs justice. For my purposes, I feel that you basically skipped over the Immortal spec as it pertains to PvP and said - Rage is the way to go.

 

The Immortal spec'd PvP Juggernaut may be a niche role, but certainly does have a role in games, and does well on its own getting a large number of medals (since you devoted an entire section to just that aspect of the game).

 

I have similar problems with sithwarrior.com where they spent 27.5 of 29 pages on Sith Warrior PvP discussing the Rage or Vengeance spec and little to not time on the Immortal PvP spec. I would have to think it varies somewhat from the PvE spec, and it warrants some time.

 

Again, I could be wrong. It may be better suited to call the guide "leveling and Rage guide" or something. Not knocking the time spent, I would merely like to see more information on Immortal PvP - thought I'd catch a glimpse in your rotation's section.

[Lacedemon]

I might've missed this on your guide, but what are the priority of stats we should be looking for with gear? I'm guessing it's Strength, followed by...?

 

I'm also struggling on Taris a bit, can't solo most of the elites and wondering if it's my gear. It's usually very close, the elite has minimal health left but I just can't finish it. I know somethings wrong with my jugg when I saw a marauder at lvl33 with 7600hp and I'm level 37 with 7500hp lol. Unless this is different when a jugg is rage spec'd? But most of my gear has level requirement of 31ish and have strength boosts, and the last time I ran a FP was mandalorian raid, is it time to hit a new FP and gear up? Or is it something else?

 

If your rage spec you want to be stacking surge to get the most from your crits. Accuracy is worth having but as standard your force attacks have a base accuracy of 100% so adding to that just helps with ignoring some of your targets armour. stacking the odd bit of power probably wouldn't go amiss either.

 

@Zerbak Well then lets have some Immortal PvP talk then, most of this goes without saying and has been said before but a discussion has to start somewhere.

 

As someone who has found themselves frequently needing to switch between Immortal and Vengeance, I've spent a fair amount of time PvP'ing and Pve'ing with both specs (done the ops as both and solo tanked in EV) Contry to popular belief you can still quite easily burn down healers 1v1. However doing damage is not your specialty. You excel best at pissing the other team off. Take voidstar for example even solo and without a healer when defending the best thing you can do when the other team blow up the doors is not to run to the next objective but stay. You will attract players from the other team like moths to a flame, probably not buy a lot of time when you have 1/2 the other team pounding on you but none the less your tying them up.

 

on either voidstar or civil war healing/hybrid operative and a Jugg make for a very effective pairing. Not only can you take on 4/5 people at once with little trouble but the fact that they can stealth you both makes for some very funny moments. Immortal juggs in Huttball really shine when you have sorc's with 1/2 a brain. Between intercede and their pulls you can score without actually pressing the W key once. On Huttball if you have the ball the free slow you can spec for is very helpful especially when you have melee's chasing you down. Likewise your charge, save it for when you need to make a quick getaway like charging someone on the other side of the poison/fire. Thats not to say you need sorcs to do well in Huttball infact when queuing solo I often don't use this tactic and when the team moves into good positions we still do well. The short of the matter is as a Juggernaut people in the team will often look to you when going for the ball or passing it. This does mean you need to be ready to move or pass the ball on again asap if your low on hp or not in a position to do something useful with the ball.

 

Guard and taunt are a great way to rack up medals without negatively impacting on your ability to contribute the team. As I mentioned earlier I can do decent damage still as Immortal (probably 1/2 what I do as Vengeance) but I always get the 75k medal and normally do about 110k. You just have to pick your fights and know when to charge into the fray.

Edited January 10, 2012 by Lacedemon

[Morsexy]

You gave a good guide, but seeing as you labeled this as a "comprehensive guide" to the Juggernaut class, I feel you didn't do some of the other specs justice. For my purposes, I feel that you basically skipped over the Immortal spec as it pertains to PvP and said - Rage is the way to go.

 

The Immortal spec'd PvP Juggernaut may be a niche role, but certainly does have a role in games, and does well on its own getting a large number of medals (since you devoted an entire section to just that aspect of the game).

 

I have similar problems with sithwarrior.com where they spent 27.5 of 29 pages on Sith Warrior PvP discussing the Rage or Vengeance spec and little to not time on the Immortal PvP spec. I would have to think it varies somewhat from the PvE spec, and it warrants some time.

 

Again, I could be wrong. It may be better suited to call the guide "leveling and Rage guide" or something. Not knocking the time spent, I would merely like to see more information on Immortal PvP - thought I'd catch a glimpse in your rotation's section.

 

 

Thanks. I did say 'and brief' and I don't want to reinvent the wheel. Right at the beginning I cite and point you to Photek's task guide. I covered the bits of tanking that he did not.

 

 

I'm working on a PVP video where I do some immortal pvp. I will write up a immortal pvp section sometime tonight ( didn't think there would be much interest in that to be honest ), and put that inside the PVP section of the guide.

 

EDIT: I'm going to just reword a bit what Lacedemon wrote, and give him a credit at the start. Its a good start to immortal pvp tips and tricks.

Edited January 10, 2012 by Morsexy

[Morsexy]

I might've missed this on your guide, but what are the priority of stats we should be looking for with gear? I'm guessing it's Strength, followed by...?

 

I'm also struggling on Taris a bit, can't solo most of the elites and wondering if it's my gear. It's usually very close, the elite has minimal health left but I just can't finish it. I know somethings wrong with my jugg when I saw a marauder at lvl33 with 7600hp and I'm level 37 with 7500hp lol. Unless this is different when a jugg is rage spec'd? But most of my gear has level requirement of 31ish and have strength boosts, and the last time I ran a FP was mandalorian raid, is it time to hit a new FP and gear up? Or is it something else?

 

Honestly you just want to stack STR and better itemization-ed gear whatever it has on it ( not defensive stats, though an item with defensive + power isn't awful ) while youre leveling up.

 

At 50 for Rage you want to stack power before surge, I know it seems backwards given we have a guaranteed crit, but that is the right priority, especially for the crit\surge vs power trinket.

 

One way to think about it is, what is worth more, 3% on top of a 5500, or 4% on top of a 1600 x 2 x 1.5.

 

For Vengeance I don't know for sure, I'll respec and report back, but I'm assuming Crit -> Accuracy -> Surge - > Power.

Edited January 10, 2012 by Morsexy

[Soonerjohn]

Honestly you just want to stack STR and better itemization-ed gear whatever it has on it ( not defensive stats, though an item with defensive + power isn't awful ) while youre leveling up.

 

At 50 for Rage you want to stack power before surge, I know it seems backwards given we have a guaranteed crit, but that is the right priority, especially for the crit\surge vs power trinket.

 

One way to think about it is, what is worth more, 3% on top of a 5500, or 4% on top of a 1600 x 2 x 1.5.

 

For Vengeance I don't know for sure, I'll respec and report back, but I'm assuming Crit -> Accuracy -> Surge - > Power.

 

Surge seems to hit a soft cap fairly easy, I would stay away from it all together in a trinket or adrenal.

 

Power and oddly crit don't seem to hit any type of cap, soft or hard. I'm guessing it is set fairly high.

 

It is best to go power relics/adrenals.

[johanlofdahl]

Good guide. I have spent ALOT of time trying out various rage specs in pvp and the one I got stuck with is this: http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#101cRZhZGrR0drMdGR.1

I found that spammable chilling scream is great in pvp and the free scream and more rage from sunders lets me sit in soresu form with shield so I can guard people and provide that benefit to my team as well. Also it has the Shii-Cho talents so that you could switch if you feel like it. Soresu gave me alot more surviveability at the feel of a minor dps loss.

 

In beta I did alot of testing as well (was regular tester) and one build that was very popular for huttball and a general tank/dps hybrid was this: http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#101crGozZhRrMrhdzM.1

Mainly going for a dps/tanky build in Soresu form with Unstoppable, Shatter is a joke in pvp (i think) so better get some defensive from Immortal. Yet again spammable chilling scream, free scream, more rage sunders, cheap retaliations and Invincible. This will make you feel almost unkillable while doing damage, requires good gear though.

 

These 2 builds are what I found to work best for me overall in pvp and due to extra survive I quite often find myself alive where if I was in another spec I'd be down in a sec. Also Soresu lets you give your team a greater benefit, dont forget taunts, spam chilling scream is awesome and can be used to get people out of stealth it is also not affected by resolve, you get more medals from the absorbs etc.

 

Just my input

[NostalGeek]

Good guide and discussion, I'm subbing.

[Lacedemon]

I found that spammable chilling scream is great in pvp and the free scream and more rage from sunders lets me sit in soresu form with shield so I can guard people and provide that benefit to my team as well. Also it has the Shii-Cho talents so that you could switch if you feel like it. Soresu gave me alot more surviveability at the feel of a minor dps loss.

 

Chilling scream is a must have in PvP.

[Morsexy]

Surge seems to hit a soft cap fairly easy, I would stay away from it all together in a trinket or adrenal.

 

Power and oddly crit don't seem to hit any type of cap, soft or hard. I'm guessing it is set fairly high.

 

It is best to go power relics/adrenals.

 

Just wanted to echo this with a new thought that I haven't fully verified but is likely true.

 

Accuracy is worth nothing, absolutely nothing in PVP or PVE for Juggernauts.

 

1. if you've had a white attack miss that wasn't due to the Ravage animation bug, I'd like to hear from you.

2. we have only two attacks that are "white" and therefore rely on accuracy, especially as rage.

 

For the "over 100% it reduces your target's defense" crowd I call shenanigans.

 

If all that accuracy was replaced with power, you would hit like a truck and never miss with the attacks that hit like a truck.

 

Inc Math fun time!

 

Now I want to say, I could be wrong, but lets think about this mathematically.

 

 

Lets say that this DOES create some version of 'armorpen' on PvE bosses. This stat is then either totally out of whack, or is still more or less garbage to a point.

 

You start with 90% accuracy, and as I've stated, Ive never seen a miss and I tried to do a whole bunch of stuff with zero accuracy ( 91.62% was lowest without going nuts on mods ).

 

So whatever accuracy does for you, it immediately starts 10% behind. We have a talent to get us 3% over the hump, so that is a positive, again if big if, over the 100% barrier nets you a gain in all your attacks. If it just nets you a white damage gain, I can tell you for sure this is not WoW, and auto attack is not usually 60% of our damage.

 

 

So I hope you guys follow what I'm saying. For this to be true say you have 110% accuracy with a 3% talent.

 

That means that 175 rating of accuracy(7%) + 250 (10%) to get to 110% means that

 

250 rating of accuracy must do more for your damage than 425 of another stat. I tend to doubt that it does, but I'm ready to be proven wrong!

 

Edit: I realize also that this applies to our Force Attack(s), but I've never seen a resist, only less damage from high armor targets\PVP gear that seems to be very consistant, ie my smash crits for 3900 ish on heavy armor, and 5400-6200 all others with pvp buff and trinket rolling.

Edited January 10, 2012 by Morsexy

[Zerbak]

I want to first state that I was not trying to be abrasive with my post, so hopefully it did not come across as such (I don't think it was taken that way, but wanted to state that nonetheless).

 

 

Immortal Mitigation/Utility PvP Tank:

 

Spec:Here is my planned spec for Juggernaut/Immortal PvP, hopefully people will take this as a chance to discuss (if interested) and tweak to reach an agreeable "required" layout with some "play points" left over to be added to the original sticky if the originator so chooses .

 

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#101fbhfzrdkuRZhMr.1

 

There are some "play" points in here, of which I will note below.

 

Tier 1: I opted for Quake as opposed to Enraged Sunder. As a Mitigation/Utility-focused player I am willing to sacrifice that 1 extra rage gained from Sundering Assault every 4.5 seconds to reduce the Accuracy of my opponents beating on my team mates by 5% every 15 seconds (12 with Decimate talented) for 18 seconds (see the 3 second overlap?). In essence, it will have 100% uptime.

 

I fully admit that being sub-50 I do not know what the required Accuracy is in PvP, I only know that lowering the chance my opponents will hit my team mates lowers the incoming damage for my healers and my team (I run solo currently so by team I mean the full 8 members). As Smash is used any time there is 2 or more players, that's a seriously debilitating ability to the opposition. Would be interested for some number crunchers to figure out actual miss chance with this talented?

 

For folks who disagree and want that extra rage every 4.5 seconds, you can opt for Enraged Sunder. If you feel you are being rage starved during your matches, this will help. As it stands, I get a lot of incoming damage so my rage is pretty stacked - that may change as I hit 50 and people realize I'm no longer a target to focus (being a ball carrier you will always be focused). One thing I do want to test is whether the damage you are mitigating/receiving from your Guarded target builds your rage as well - will be tough to test in a Warzone setting - but will check tonight if I remember .

 

Tier 3/4: Here is where I had a tough time making my decision. Once you've placed all your others talents you have an extra point available to cap out Heavy Handed in Tier 3, or Shield Specialization in Tier 4. The linked spec above has the former capped out. The tank in me wants to bump my shield chance up another 2%, but with the 5% increase in damage across three "primary" abilities I just couldn't help myself. I think either is useful here, and it will come down to personal preference.

 

Non-Immortal Tree Point Distribution:

I think the remainder of the point distribution is self-explanatory. One might argue that moving into the Rage tree is more beneficial than the Vengeance tree for juicy perks such as Ravager, Malice, and Stagger. Even the Tier 2 perk, Payback, can be obtained and still have a couple extra to place in Tier 1 of Vengeance (or pick up a couple other spare talents in the Immortal tree) for Improved Sundering Assault.

 

I originally considered this when first building my spec and here's my best counter, take it as it is. The Tier 1 Vengeance distribution adds another sunder armor to each and every 4.5 second Sundering Assault. The less armor your opponent has, the more damage your team does and the faster that hopefully "focus" target dies. As noted earlier, Decimate reduces the cooldown on Smash, one of our favorite abilities, and increases the damage it does, win/win. Tier 2 adds 6% strength, which is our second most desired stat as a tank and gives us rage during the one period of time where we aren't spamming some ability or another - stuns, sleeps, and knockdowns - good thing there aren't too many of those in the game, eh?

 

Other Options:

There are some optional specs that can be taken. One was mentioned where you can delve a bit into the Rage tree and then pick up a couple talents in Vengeance (or finish out in Immortal if you wish). There is also an Obliterate spec that hopefully someone else will post as this discussion continues. This spec is what I personally would refer to as a true "Hybrid" spec. Personally, I feel too much is lost in the end tier talents of the Immortal tree, and for my intended role, won't meet my needs quite as well. I figure Force Charge, Intercede, and an attentive team will grant me enough mobility to move large distances and Chilling Scream, Force Choke, and Backhand (just to name a few) will help me remain more mobile than my close-quarter opposition.

 

 

Closing of Part 1:

This is Part 1 of 3 for my "Juggernaut Tank PvP Guide." As I am writing this over my lunch break at work (which I've gone over O_O) I will do the following two parts each on my lunch days over the next two consecutive days. Hopefully we can spur some conversation in the mean time and I will make revisions/changes/additions at the very end of my three day novella .

 

I don't claim to know everything, or much of anything, only that I've been PvP'ing on this character from level 10 to 29 and every day I learn something new, how to adapt to a situation, better select my Guard target, etc. Hopefully you'll enjoy the journey. In case anyone is wondering, my character's name is Garuda, from the guild Inertial Force, on the DWC server (Death Wind Corridor). Feel free to stop by and say hi, or /wave standing over my corpse if you see me in a Warzone .

 

P.S. If my color arrangement is too aggressive/bright for some folks eyes, let me know and I'll change them to something less so.

[Zerbak]

Reserved for Part 2 of 3.....

 

To include but not limited to the following: stat priority and commonly used abilities and when to use them (and other things that may come to mind in the next 23 hours).

Edited January 10, 2012 by Zerbak

[Zerbak]

Reserved for Part 3 of 3.....

 

To include but not limited to the following: strategies for each Warzone and how to maximize Medal uptake (and anything else that may come to mind in the next 47 hours).

Edited January 10, 2012 by Zerbak

[Morsexy]

I wanted to append this with this statement.

 

Nothing here is definitive

 

This is a work in progress, and I am fully prepared to be wrong on something. Without a combat log everything we do is anecdotal on advanced mechanics.

 

I would love nothing more than a group of people to go out and prove me wrong on some concept, or build, or pve tanking encounter, and post their findings and I update the guide and source them with credit.

 

Groupthink = the worst.

[Morsexy]

Hope Everyone saw this.

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=1435443#edit1435443

 

Specifically

 

 

[*]Mobility/Anti Kiting (PvP) – We agree with the sentiment voiced by the community that some Guardians and Juggernauts have to work harder than other classes to stay within effective combat range, putting them at a disadvantage. We intend to address this in an upcoming patch where, as a first step, Force Push will clear the cooldown of Force Leap, granting for more reliable in combat pursuit capabilities to the Advanced Class. Further changes will be made if necessary.

 

[Cobrette]

I really like your build for rage (http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#101ZIMMZGMRbdbRdGR.1), but i was wondering if anyone had any input for actually DPSing as rage spec in raids?

 

With gear being about equal how do you compare to other DPS classes? What main rotation do you use? And do you think its viable?

 

I'm asking because I had planned on tanking when I rolled my jugg, but now I'm 38 and it is looking like my guild is really tank heavy... so I may be reluctantly moving over to a DPS role.

 

thanks for putting this thread together!

[Hyyuga]

I really like your build for rage (http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#101ZIMMZGMRbdbRdGR.1), but i was wondering if anyone had any input for actually DPSing as rage spec in raids?

 

With gear being about equal how do you compare to other DPS classes? What main rotation do you use? And do you think its viable?

 

I'm asking because I had planned on tanking when I rolled my jugg, but now I'm 38 and it is looking like my guild is really tank heavy... so I may be reluctantly moving over to a DPS role.

 

thanks for putting this thread together!

 

This is a great resource

 

and this the blog entry u need to read =)

Edited January 11, 2012 by Hyyuga

[Sookster]

Hope Everyone saw this.

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=1435443#edit1435443

 

Specifically

 

Haha, I always use force push-force leap in my chain, that'll be perfect. I heard about the upcoming changes on ventrilo last night.

[XiaCross]

Hey guys I loved the guide gave me lots of insight.

 

I been leveling as immortal jugg without using much stimpacks and occassionally the pot when iam about to die. I find that I wipe out mobs just fine and in pvp i am always the top protection.

 

I got from 22-42 now this weekend and I think iam gonna go RAGE spec now that iam 42. I have full SAVAGE pvp gear along with a nice orange chestarmor from cloicid wargames. I have tons of crict chance 20% and some decent dmg.

 

I was just wondering what companion I should use as RAGE, cuz I been using jaesa this entire time cuz shes does more dps than vette i find and she doesnt die as easily.

 

Also can someone explain in a bit more detail about the dmg, I know that kinetic is for force abilities but what stat gives kinetic dmg? I thought it was power but in the game it said power is only for main hand weapon.