itekazzawrrlic Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 Because the lame kotor girlies cried about an MMORPG and they bioware was ruining kotor. So now it runs like a normal RPG. The game is boring. Then stop playing it and send me your stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeathDiciple Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 Why exactly is instancing a bad thing? Outside of PVP servers and lack of targets (I assume, I'm not playing on one), if anything it reduces lag and spawn issues... someone needs to see 200 other people fight same mobs to make him feel this is MMO? I just fail to see reasoning. Most of the quests/combat are open world instead of fixed instances/dungeons/call them the way you want, it would just be horribly unplayable otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kamiosoup Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 (edited) Then stop playing it and send me your stuff. He would but the mail system doesn't work properly ZIING. hehe its funny cause its true Edited January 8, 2012 by Kamiosoup Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cameirus Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 (edited) As the title suggests, I don't really understand. I'm a little new to MMOs, but certainly not single players. Am I missing something? ? Go play rift. Go to an invasion on ember isle....you see that couple of hundred players taking part in one event? Thats MMO. Got to swtor, stand in republic fleet, go find another player....no thats ok< i dont mind waiting whilst you run round a bit until you do..... Plus swtor actively discourages multiplayer. It has no LFG system It has no cross server chat It has mob tagging so you compete with other players and resent them being there It has no server forums The worlds are large with spread out quests and very little actual content over a large area. So your chances of running into other players whilst questing is minimal. Its a linear game, so if someone is not on the same part as you you cant help each other out naturally. Instancing of storey quests discourages grouping. 1600 people on severs at peak time.....thats really really low. esp if you play republic which is outnumbered on virtually(probably all) servers. Edited January 8, 2012 by Cameirus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimthegray Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 (edited) Go play rift. Go to an invasion on ember isle....you see that couple of hundred players taking part in one event? Thats MMO. Got to swtor, stand in republic fleet, go find another player....no thats ok< i dont mind waiting whilst you run round a bit until you do..... Plus swtor actively discourages multiplayer. It has no LFG system It has no cross server chat It has mob tagging so you compete with other players and resent them being there It has no server forums The worlds are large with spread out quests and very little actual content over a large area. So your chances of running into other players whilst questing is minimal. Its a linear game, so if someone is not on the same part as you you cant help each other out naturally. Instancing of storey quests discourages grouping. 1600 people on severs at peak time.....thats really really low. esp if you play republic which is outnumbered on virtually(probably all) servers. see you just described almost every mmo particularly at time of there launch. and while you may think that instant storys discourage grouping this is just your opinion eveny one I know enjoys the story telling while grouped to the point of making me occasionally wait before i turn in a story quest so they can be there to watch Edited January 8, 2012 by jimthegray Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cameirus Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 (edited) see you just described almost every mmo particularly at time of there launch what? lets compare it to the other recent MMO, RIFT> Server forums, No instancing. Public grouping - no kill stealing Auto grouping for events/rifts Dynamic content zonewide where hundreds of players take part Many cross server chat channels, level based and world defense to announce events - No lfg at launch, but added in very quickly. No, SWTOR is lacking features. And its not competing with a game 7years ago, its competing with MMOs now. Should I come back in 5 years when SWTOR gets round to adding basic features? Or should they have been in at launch? Edited January 8, 2012 by Cameirus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimthegray Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 (edited) what? lets compare it to the other recent MMO, RIFT> Server forums, No instancing. Public grouping - no kill stealing Auto grouping for events/rifts Dynamic content zonewide where hundreds of players take part Many cross server chat channels, level based and world defense to announce events - No lfg at launch, but added in very quickly. No, SWTOR is lacking features. And its not competing with a game 7years ago, its competing with MMOs now. Should I come back in 5 years when SWTOR gets round to adding basic features? Or should they have been in at launch? you said mmo not recent mmo even among recent mmo's, rift is it for all of the features you mentioned and I like rift it's a good game are there features that I would like TOR to add? absolutely but it is an MMO and one with more features then most MMO's including several that only TOR has. Auto grouping for public events would be nice but I prefer mob tagging over public grouping though it would be a nice option that players could select. I also much prefer instancing to me it is a perk. Edited January 8, 2012 by jimthegray Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCynic Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 (edited) There are 'save points' in your solo instance, you know the rep/imp medical droid that sells medpacks/stims in a solo quest instance. Every area there is a main structure then your class wing which is phased so only you go there. Every time quest you get you have no fear of worry that the named you need will not be up, because all named fights are either phased or initiated by you with a clicky. There are also some intangible things, like cave design. Copy paste is one thing to cut down on resources...but I've been in the same dang cave 100 times on every planet. In other MMOs you can joke that you beat the game or won, this one actually FEELS like you have when you finish your class quest. In other MMOs when you get a quest there is the possibility you will not finish it that night, in TOR I cant think of many quests that take more than 20min to complete. In single player games everything you need is either bought or gotten from a quest, in TOR everything thats crafted is also sold from a commendation vendor. In a single player game its just you against the world You take out the major evil, YOU kill the 40 ft tall dragon, you save the world! In MMOs you do these things as well, but usually anything HUGE and MAJOR is done with at least a full group or a raid. I was SOOOOO disappointed when I got to Alderaan and the quest to oust Ulgo was a solo quest, and again in my very own private phase where I wouldn't be disturbed. All I know is I just finished my class quest, and I really dont feel like playing anymore. Edited January 8, 2012 by TheCynic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krinaman Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 All I know is I just finished my class quest, and I really dont feel like playing anymore. Bye..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khoranth Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 As the title suggests, I don't really understand. I'm a little new to MMOs, but certainly not single players. Am I missing something? I understand that people are considering it a single player because the game I guess, is linear? But, I don't really think that. If you do every quest in an area, your space missions and a pvp daily, you'll out level your planet, letting you hop to different ones. I guess it's because the planets are one after another though? The questing doesn't feel single player, either... Take Skyrim. Skyrim is an awesome single player game, I love it. When I compare that to TOR, I don't see a comparison. I've never seen a single player game where you're given a quest to kill 20 guys, or collect 20 things... for every single quest as the side quests go. The main story quests are really cool and interesting, but otherwise - the side quests feel like, aside from the voice acting lore, repetitive and redundant. This makes me think of a normal MMO grind that doesn't give it a single player feel. Could some one explain it to me, please? What they should say is linear, not single player. To put it in skyrim terms, SWTOR is to SWG as skyrim is to contra ( or whatever new age linear action game you play, i dont know, contra was the last linear action game i played) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sulfurblade Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 As the title suggests, I don't really understand. I'm a little new to MMOs, but certainly not single players. Am I missing something? I understand that people are considering it a single player because the game I guess, is linear? But, I don't really think that. If you do every quest in an area, your space missions and a pvp daily, you'll out level your planet, letting you hop to different ones. I guess it's because the planets are one after another though? The questing doesn't feel single player, either... Take Skyrim. Skyrim is an awesome single player game, I love it. When I compare that to TOR, I don't see a comparison. I've never seen a single player game where you're given a quest to kill 20 guys, or collect 20 things... for every single quest as the side quests go. The main story quests are really cool and interesting, but otherwise - the side quests feel like, aside from the voice acting lore, repetitive and redundant. This makes me think of a normal MMO grind that doesn't give it a single player feel. Could some one explain it to me, please? Because most of us have grown up playing Sand Box MMO's and in a Sand Box there is way more interaction in the community! A Sand Box game requires the community to make the game what it is...... For Example in Ultima Online long ago when you started out playing there were NO tutorials there were no instructions there was just your little equipmentless avatar on the screen.... What did you do you ran up to a person and said HI I am new and the chat bubble appeared over your head and now you got a reply of either **** noob unlikely or the more common welcome let me explain some things and help you get started.... In this game an NPC tells you what your going to do! A robust Storyline and Quest line is layed out forcing you to accomplish it if you want to leave the planet or get your ship! Sand Box MMO's to force you to do any type of quest at all! In a Sand Box MMO anyone can typically get anywhere it maynot be benificial for there survival but people will still attempt to kill you in the safety of town surrounded by guards! Here in this RPG evironment you cant get to the enemy's questing area's.... there is no way to attack them there, so there is no interaction there.... In a SandBox MMO where people Role Play they get to make the story of there player its not already layed out for them in a fancy cinematic robust questline..... A low level armorsmith in UO could stand at a forge and repair armor for other players to raise his smithing and in doing so he talked and interacted with many many other players constantly.... In this game about the only time you talk to anyone is if you want to try some heroic instance that you dont even need to do to progress to level cap! All in all compared to most every MMO before this its very much NOT an MMO but an RPG with Group Chat...... And as an RPG its very limiting in your ability to create your OWN story or travel where you want to go.... So from that Regard Skyrim kicks its butt! Though as an RPG its a pretty decent game but I didnt expect to be buying an RPG I was expecting to buy an MMO! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knightblaster Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 Because most of us have grown up playing Sand Box MMO's and in a Sand Box there is way more interaction in the community! A Sand Box game requires the community to make the game what it is...... For Example in Ultima Online long ago when you started out playing there were NO tutorials there were no instructions there was just your little equipmentless avatar on the screen.... What did you do you ran up to a person and said HI I am new and the chat bubble appeared over your head and now you got a reply of either **** noob unlikely or the more common welcome let me explain some things and help you get started.... In this game an NPC tells you what your going to do! A robust Storyline and Quest line is layed out forcing you to accomplish it if you want to leave the planet or get your ship! Sand Box MMO's to force you to do any type of quest at all! In a Sand Box MMO anyone can typically get anywhere it maynot be benificial for there survival but people will still attempt to kill you in the safety of town surrounded by guards! Here in this RPG evironment you cant get to the enemy's questing area's.... there is no way to attack them there, so there is no interaction there.... In a SandBox MMO where people Role Play they get to make the story of there player its not already layed out for them in a fancy cinematic robust questline..... A low level armorsmith in UO could stand at a forge and repair armor for other players to raise his smithing and in doing so he talked and interacted with many many other players constantly.... In this game about the only time you talk to anyone is if you want to try some heroic instance that you dont even need to do to progress to level cap! All in all compared to most every MMO before this its very much NOT an MMO but an RPG with Group Chat...... And as an RPG its very limiting in your ability to create your OWN story or travel where you want to go.... So from that Regard Skyrim kicks its butt! Though as an RPG its a pretty decent game but I didnt expect to be buying an RPG I was expecting to buy an MMO! Mostly a hate on BioWare's game design. Not like Skyrim. And also, no AAA MMOs are sandboxes any longer -- sandbox is a niche market. The other MMO I play, EVE, is a sandbox, but it's a niche game with only 300k subs even though it's a very mature game (released in 2003). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mannic Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 (edited) They consider it so cause you can solo all the game ( i mean you can get to 50) , ... that is what makes a single player game dont considered if it is a good game or not. I like the story im playing , actually the story i found cool ... doing all the side quests is what i find boring like hell. Beyond that, there's also a discernable difference with the mindet of the players in this game. You can find groups sometimes, but it just seems that a much greater proportion of the TOR community has a solo mindset. I've never seen an MMO where guilds are so... invisible... as they are in TOR. The game seems to have brought in a lot of Bioware fans (not surprisingly) and Bioware has never made a true MP game before. The climate of this game is one of a bunch of players very, very quietly playing the game and trying as much as possible not to be bothered by anyone else. Edited January 8, 2012 by Mannic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sulfurblade Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 Mostly a hate on BioWare's game design. And also, no AAA MMOs are sandboxes any longer -- sandbox is a niche market. Okay you have made two points if I am understanding 1) I am flaming Bioware 2) Sand Box's are old and past there time! Well I disagree on both points! in Regards to point 1 Bioware has created a GEM of an RPG, great cinematic's, and 8 great storys! But its not an MMO it doesnt have the content, economy, group interaction to sustain an MMO at this time! This is not a Flame this is exactly what it is! in Regards to point 2 A Sandbox is a huge world that allows you freedom to travel! Most of all the top (AAA) MMO's ARE Sandbox's WoW LoTRO Eve Atlantica Online Perpetuum Fallen Earth Dark Age of Camelot Mortal Online Darkfall Online Pirates of the Burning Sea Ultima Online Everquest This list could go on and on and on!!!! But I have to think long and hard to name another total Theme Park MMO like this one! Star Trek Online Is the only other one I can think of and well its a far far cry from being a top MMO which is ashame as its another Great IP that got ruined by a ThemePark! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caramel_Ham Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 or you know simply disagree with you The ONLY thing debatable about what i posted is the number of players in each planet. After all, i just put a rough estimate of what I see. It will vary from server to server but not a whole lot. example, today Taris had around 60-70 players at the time i was playing, might change tomorrow. Even if we just assume that each planet has 100 players, the server cap is still extremely small. Hence you only disagreed, which is fine, but did not back up your disagreement at all. As i said, i DO enjoy the game for what it is, it is a different take on the MMORPG genre. Trying to say otherwise is foolish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khoranth Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 Okay you have made two points if I am understanding 1) I am flaming Bioware 2) Sand Box's are old and past there time! Well I disagree on both points! in Regards to point 1 Bioware has created a GEM of an RPG, great cinematic's, and 8 great storys! But its not an MMO it doesnt have the content, economy, group interaction to sustain an MMO at this time! This is not a Flame this is exactly what it is! in Regards to point 2 A Sandbox is a huge world that allows you freedom to travel! Most of all the top (AAA) MMO's ARE Sandbox's WoW LoTRO Eve Atlantica Online Perpetuum Fallen Earth Dark Age of Camelot Mortal Online Darkfall Online Pirates of the Burning Sea Ultima Online Everquest This list could go on and on and on!!!! But I have to think long and hard to name another total Theme Park MMO like this one! Star Trek Online Is the only other one I can think of and well its a far far cry from being a top MMO which is ashame as its another Great IP that got ruined by a ThemePark! Sorry, WOW is not a sandbox at all. EQ honestly was not a sandbox either, it was almost as linear as WoW and swtor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knightblaster Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 A Sandbox is a huge world that allows you freedom to travel! Most of all the top (AAA) MMO's ARE Sandbox's WoW LoTRO Eve Atlantica Online Perpetuum Fallen Earth Dark Age of Camelot Mortal Online Darkfall Online Pirates of the Burning Sea Ultima Online Everquest This list could go on and on and on!!!! Following your manner of speaking ... WoW is not a sandbox !!!! SandBoxes!!! Are games that give players tools to play in them, and do not provide much if any content beyond the tools. EVE is like that. Darkfall is like that. Ultima Online, Star Wars Galaxies were like that. WoW??? No!!! Not like that!!! Being able to travel around doesn't make it a sandbox. Open world (which is outmoded technically, really) is not sandbox. Sandbox is EVE or A Tale in the Desert or SWG. !!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khoranth Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 Following your manner of speaking ... WoW is not a sandbox !!!! SandBoxes!!! Are games that give players tools to play in them, and do not provide much if any content beyond the tools. EVE is like that. Darkfall is like that. Ultima Online, Star Wars Galaxies were like that. WoW??? No!!! Not like that!!! Being able to travel around doesn't make it a sandbox. Open world (which is outmoded technically, really) is not sandbox. Sandbox is EVE or A Tale in the Desert or SWG. !!! WoW used to hide how linear it was well, putting dungeons raids ect all out in the world. But nowadays they don't even try to mask the linearity of the game, everything just has an instant teleport. Even in cataclysm when WoW made you visit a dungeon entrance ONCE, before using the instant teleport, people cried so they got rid of that requirement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sulfurblade Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 Sorry, WOW is not a sandbox at all. EQ honestly was not a sandbox either, it was almost as linear as WoW and swtor. With the exception of Instances where in the world of wow can you NOT go on a character??? Heck if your a horde you can raid Stormwind or if your an alliance you can raid Ogrimar...... there is no zone your little level one cant walk into freely on his own accord..... The Freedom of Travel makes a Sandbox.... WoW is a Sandbox with Theme park features known as Instances! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khoranth Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 With the exception of Instances where in the world of wow can you NOT go on a character??? Heck if your a horde you can raid Stormwind or if your an alliance you can raid Ogrimar...... there is no zone your little level one cant walk into freely on his own accord..... The Freedom of Travel makes a Sandbox.... WoW is a Sandbox with Theme park features known as Instances! freedom of travel? youre free to travel wherever you want in swtor(once you get your ship), freedom of travel does not equal sandbox at all. You cannot possibly compare a linear game like WoW to a sandbox like SWG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thaonnor Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 This. In fact, it was designed this way. Few examples i can think of- -Heavily instanced play: makes sure you do NOT see many people while you play. Im not talking about the green instances you can enter, im talking about having instances for the same area. -Low cap on servers: Think about it...you enter the game during peak hours, ok you wait a couple of minutes in queue. Then while questing on different planets, you see the average players on any planet is only around 100 for the low level planets, around 60 for the mid level planets and like 30 for the high level planets. Imperial Fleet at peak times around 150 players. -Companions: self explanatory. -Map design: Its so constrained and never was made for a lot of people at the same time, hence the heavily instanced and low cap servers. The only time this game feels like a true MMO is when you are at the Imperial fleet. Anyone who says otherwise, who has played another MMO, is just a Biodrone. I DO enjoy the game though...for what it is. This. I also enjoy the game, but I don't see myself paying a monthly fee for a single player game... I may pay for this next month to finish the story that I'm working on, but past that, I don't see this being a multiple year thing. After all, a lot of us are already level 50 and we are a couple weeks in... there are people working on operations already... within another month they'll have those ones done and what - 1 more to do? Bioware literally cannot pump the content out fast enough with these kinds of progression rates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeandraNyx Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 I don't get it either. I've done lots of flashpoints and heroic quests and met lots of cool people along the way. I haven't tried pvp, but there's that too. Can you level to 50 alone? Yeah, sure. You can do that in WoW and many other MMOs as well. It isn't "single player" unless you choose to make it that way. As far as I know you can't solo endgame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sulfurblade Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 freedom of travel? youre free to travel wherever you want in swtor(once you get your ship), freedom of travel does not equal sandbox at all. You cannot possibly compare a linear game like WoW to a sandbox like SWG freedom of travel is a Sandbox, if I wanted to herb all day I could or mine all day I could.... Because I was free to travel and do what I wanted in essence this is the heart of what a Sand Box is...... WoW is a Sandbox that has features known as instances these instances are Themepark aspects within the game! You do not have to do a single quest in WoW. Your free to play your game the way that you want to...... The term Sandbox is only in reference to the map and the freedom to travel within it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khoranth Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 freedom of travel is a Sandbox, if I wanted to herb all day I could or mine all day I could.... Because I was free to travel and do what I wanted in essence this is the heart of what a Sand Box is...... WoW is a Sandbox that has features known as instances these instances are Themepark aspects within the game! You do not have to do a single quest in WoW. Your free to play your game the way that you want to...... The term Sandbox is only in reference to the map and the freedom to travel within it! once you get your ship you can do the same thing in swtor, WoW and swtor are still not sandboxes, freedom of travel does not equal sandbox. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GalacticKegger Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 (edited) Strange, my friend and i finished both of our act 1 story missions together... since we started on different planets we've been grouping since lvl 10... im a trooper and shes a jedi ( the kind with 2 light sabers) Ive made quite a few friends on my friends list.. a few tanks and some dps from running various flash points... we've all cruised on the tatooine baloon together.. and helped each other figure out how to get that darned datacron on the side of the sand crawler... Among many many other things.. your lack of friends is why you cant interact with other players.. or mayhaps its your general attitude.. no one wants to group with a sour-sack or a mean-jeanThere are people all over our server and LFGs in chat on both sides are a constant. Maybe it's a server population thing? Or perhaps for some, being used to a blind queueing system from another game system likely set an expectation that parties have to come to them. No multiplayer issues with the game here. Edited January 8, 2012 by GalacticKegger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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