Baaddare Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 I have a threat meter idea- if the enemy is attacking you, you have threat. Meters make it so you spend the game lookin at them, rather than at the actual combat. Deadly Boss Mods are even worse- look, bosses in this game give you a big warning when they're doing something on the screen, you see the animation of whatever they're doing, usually they shout a verbal cue too- that's your warning, if you can't pay attention to that, you should die. Does this mean you'll wipe a few times on bosses the first time you see them? Ya, but good, DBM makes the game too easy, or, it turns the game into requiring pin point following of the DBM cues that in turn make it impossible to do the content without it. It's not that mods are bad- something to customize the UI would be welcomed- but the problem is how do you let in the asthetic mods without letting in the mods that make the game easier/exploitable. Blizz hasn't figured that out in 7 years, nobody else has figured it out, I doubt BW will figure it out. You mean like when a boss Yells in the game "KEEP ON FIRING" or "ADJUSTING COMBAT TACTICS." shocking similar to DBM giving a warning. So not sure why i would want or need DBM thus I agree with you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norumaniac Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 Addons = Bad players. This isnt WoW, or any other game. Learn to play without having crutches. Rofl. Addons actually help great players improve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brool Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 I hope they stick with the "no addon's" policy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rasstavad Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 (edited) Yeah, I remember all of the great things it added. Like GearScore checks. And OMG YOUR DPS IS 10% LESS THAN I THINK IT SHOULD BE, YOU'RE OUT OF THE GROUP! Yeah, I have fond memories of those times. Then stop being bad. I have never once been accused of low dps or low hps on any of my toons... to be honest, when me or any of my guild are around the LAST thing people do is spam a recount. You don't have to have the current tier of raiding gear to put out reasonable numbers - and nobody is going to freak if your numbers are "reasonable"... if you are pulling less DPS than the tank then you deserve to be ridiculed and kicked. If you are a healer, nobody cares if nobody dies. Edited January 7, 2012 by Rasstavad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baaddare Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 Addons are already confirmed and on the way. 16:39 "Addon support? We're working on it, will be post-launch feature."[/quote Comprehension is important. saying they are going to add heal tools such as target's target and unlocking the UI and such does not mean addons are confimed. It means they are going to add heal tools and are working on unlocking the UI non of which require an addon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dezikon Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 I don't really mind it. SWTOR has its own built-in questhelper. DBM and threat meters made the game too easy. Critical thinking, situational awareness, and the ability to think on your feet will compensate for all of these things. You don't NEED those tools, they are merely nice to have. Their UI needs to be improved in the following way to achieve perfect functionality: Debuffs need to be displayed in real time on party and ops framesCast bars need to be displayed prominently and in real time on target/focus framestarget selection via raid and ops frames needs to be more crisp/responsive And then you're good. I fully agree, but i would also add: 4. Ability to move all of the UI elements around the screen. 5. More flexibilty with quickslot bar location/size/quantity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WLpride Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 #1 failure decision BW has made so for IMO. prefabbed interface=SPRPG=dead MMO won't hold the WoW audience that is for sure, or any serious MMO player IMO. premade GUI=insulting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarka Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 (edited) I always find it amusing to see the BS excuses thrown around against UI addons, often citing how people would then be forced to watch the addon timers in a instead of the action or insinuating how it makes an encounter so easy. Firstly, if you aren't watching the timers that ARE in the game (i.e. cooldowns) then your most likely going to have your *** handed to you. On this level there is very little difference between having addons and not. During the encounter the player STILL has to know what to do and/or where to move to. Anyone who believes that it becomes "easy mode" to the point of being automated is really blowing this well out of proportion and basically jumping on the "wow bashing" bandwagon. Secondly, whilst addons may indeed notify players to incoming events in an encounter before they happen. Basically speaking, that is really no different to someone having done that encounter before and remembered the order of the events. The simple fact is that alerts are a reminder. If a player HASN'T done that encounter before then no addons in the world are going to make up for their lack of experience and timing. Thirdly, if you were forced to use an addon which you didn't want to use, then perhaps you were in the wrong guild. Fourthly, if someone didn't allow you to join a group because of your GS, then perhaps you should consider the possibility that they had good reason: you were perhaps trying to skip earlier content and trying to get into higher level raids with crap gear. Guess what, a form of gear rating is already in THIS game too. If you're against things like Recount and GS then perhaps you're trying to hide something. Two things to remember: No addon or collection of addons in ANY MMO will automate your character enough to be fully autonomous in a raid encounter to the point whereby you won't have to control it in order for it to be putting in the required effort. No amount of alerts will cater for a player who cannot adequately play their class. Lastly, don't blame addons for making encounters simplistic, blame the designers for not having imagination. Edited January 7, 2012 by Tarka Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daedius Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 An addon I'd truly love to see is altering the UI and the unit frames... atm the cast bar of enemies is so TINY! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WLpride Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 I think add-ons worked so well in WoW because Blizzard isn't good at re-inventing the wheel. All of the best features in WoW were either done in other games first and improved by WoW, or created by mod programers and then made into regular interface features. Blizzard recognized that players have a better understanding of what they want than Blizzard does, and that they can get programmers to work for free by supporting add-ons. this right here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baaddare Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 You mind finding a source for that admission? That's a load of garbage if you understand how addons work. no it is not you apparently do not understand that to allow addons they have to in effect "unlock" the game. Thus makign it easier for hackers. It is not the addons ( unless it is the hack and bott types that are avaiable) themselves that casue the issue it is altering the games code to allow the addons which makes it easier for hackers to hack. and No i am not goign to go look back 4 or 5 years. Since it woudl not really change your opnion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baaddare Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 An addon I'd truly love to see is altering the UI and the unit frames... atm the cast bar of enemies is so TINY! which they are planning to do without allowing outside mods/add-ons Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romiz Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 Very glad, as most players are, that they not allowed addons. And hope they never do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarka Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 (edited) no it is not you apparently do not understand that to allow addons they have to in effect "unlock" the game. Thus makign it easier for hackers. It is not the addons ( unless it is the hack and bott types that are avaiable) themselves that casue the issue it is altering the games code to allow the addons which makes it easier for hackers to hack. and No i am not goign to go look back 4 or 5 years. Since it woudl not really change your opnion I think you're making a gross generalisation here. Addons often "hook" into software code via the applications API. An API is a set of commands / interfaces and other bits and pieces that the software can respond to. Developers don't have to "unlock" the entire code of the application in order to allow for addons, they can just allow specific API commands to interface with it. Thus developers can control what can AND cannot be accessed via the API. How secure software is depends on the level to which the API's interface with the software. Of course, just like opening ports on your firewall, any interface can potentially be a gateway for a hacking attempt. But that depends on the nature of the API interface. The trick is to design the interface so that it cannot be abused. TL;DR: If the devs decided to support / allow SOME kinds of add-ons, that doesn't mean that the floodgates would be open for ALL kinds of add-ons. It all comes down to what level of interaction the devs allow between the add-ons and the application. And that is governed by the addon API. So let's keep the hysteria down to managable levels. Edited January 7, 2012 by Tarka Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dazgra Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 Wow, what is with all this neo-luddism? The stock UI is atrocious and anyone who has played MMO's at a fairly high level understand the benefit of addons. Fact of the matter is, if you don't like them, don't use them. But don't bring the rest of us down to your level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romiz Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 Wow, what is with all this neo-luddism? The stock UI is atrocious and anyone who has played MMO's at a fairly high level understand the benefit of addons. Fact of the matter is, if you don't like them, don't use them. But don't bring the rest of us down to your level. I have played MMOs since the 90s and seen all the bad from addons. They do not improve a game just hurt it. It was lots more fun to play MMOs before the addon idea started. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phadian_gess Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 to the OP in regards to quest helper...no.....just no the map itself shows you exact locations of every objective and even the bonus mission objectives the addition of that addon would be entirely redundant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phadian_gess Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 But don't bring the rest of us down to your level. Thats an awfully elitest thing to say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarka Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 (edited) Thats an awfully elitest thing to say. Depends on your point of view actually. One could also argue that making sweeping generalisations to the effect of saying that "all addons are bad" is elitist because those people are forcing everyone to conform to THEIR standards. The fact is that no amount of addons will fundamentally change how good a player is at playing a particular class. GS, Recount, DBM, whatever won't change that. But the benefits that certain add-ons DO have is making up for a badly designed UI or encounter. And that's not the fault of the Addon developers, the blame lies squarely with the MMO devs. And addon's have often appeared because MMO devs have not gotten around to actually dealing with issues which addons often help to overcome. Edited January 7, 2012 by Tarka Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iResist Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 (edited) Good, we DO NOT NEED ADD-ONS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11 We do not need automated messages telling us: Where to stand during a fight..... When a boss ability is about to activate..... When to start casting certain specified abilities during a fight...... When to move during a fight..... It is basically like CHEATING!!!! Add-ons are the bane of MMO's. The ONLY good add-ons are for the UI so people can setup the UI how they want, but this is not even needed either if Biowares allows a more customizable UI in game. Edited January 7, 2012 by iResist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyriene Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 I have played SWG, WoW, EQ, EQ2, Warhammer Online and Rift, the only game I have ever used addons in was WoW. Why? Because to be able to participate in end game you had to use addons, it wasn't required by any mechanic in the game until WotLK, however it was required by your raiding guilds. I would like to be able to customize my UI to some extent, that can be accomplished by BW implementing the ability to move and resize your UI, no addon necessary. I don't see a need for, I don't have a desire for it, and from appearances I am not alone in this. That being said, that doesn't mean those that would like to see addons have any less value, just I don't agree with them. Asking for customization of the UI is not the same as addons, addons are things that do the work for you to some extent. Be it a DBM type addon that tells you what the mob is about to do, or a DPS/HPS meter that tells everyone if you're having a bad day. You are either doing your job or not, numbers don't tell that story, it's the outcome of the encounter that tells that story. Before anyone can say it, I was officially one of the highest DPS warlocks in my guild during Vanilla, in BC I went to tanking and for WotLK and Cata I was one of the main tanks of my guild, so yes I understand how it works. I may not always post the highest numbers, but for some reason I always managed to get the job done. Things got out of hand in Cata, now you can't even gear up an alt because 'your dps is to low' group kick. I mean come on, while the intent of the addons might be good, the actual use of them ends up in the hands of people who only care about the numbers not the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlyJeff Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 The great benefit of add ons is that they allow for a simple, developer create interface that can be used by the masses without getting confused by all of the options available, while the more intense raiders and pvpers can get something that suits their needs a lot better than a UI designed for leveling. If WoW had shipped with the interface I used for raiding, or even had the mountain of options availabke to make it look that way, I'd have probably quit the game in the first 10 levels- but once I knew what I wanted to push the game to the max, add ons made it so much more enjoyable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarka Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 (edited) Good, we DO NOT NEED ADD-ON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11 We do not need automated messages telling us: Where to stand during a fight..... When a boss ability is about to activate..... When to start casting certain specified abilities during a fight...... When to move during a fight..... It is basically like CHEATING!!!! Add-ons are the bane of MMO's. The ONLY good add-ons are for the UI so people can setup the UI how they want. 1) And being told by a guild / raid leader OR reading about it on a website is much different? Really? 2) See number 1. 3) See number 2. 4) See number 3. Don't want to feel like your cheating? Cool. Don't read ANY articles on websites, turn off TS / Vent and don't listen to your guild / raid leader in chat. I said this earlier, and I'll say it again: Addons will never, ever fundamentally change how good a player is at playing a class in situations like raids. Let's keep things well within the realms of reality. Edited January 7, 2012 by Tarka Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obiwansghost Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 scalable UI is what is needed. None of this other crap should ever dilute TOR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkness_Squall Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 (edited) People are claiming that third-party enhancements to make a game easier for them is the hardcore way to play? You can't easily see what the opponent is casting? Surprise! They can't easily see what you're casting either. Looks like there are always people looking to gain an advantage over others. If it's not add-ons, it's botting or real-money trading...just play the game. Tarka, if add-ons don't provide any advantages, why would you want them? Your own argument defeats itself. It's not like cheating? It doesn't help with anything? Then you won't mind that they're forbidden. Edited January 7, 2012 by Darkness_Squall Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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