Sith Emperor vs Darth Sidious

[havok_bloodcraft]

I wish people could stop saying "It's canon", and actually open their minds to new possibilities... The variables are endless, so any given sith / jedi, could win vs any given sith / jedi at any given time in any given story in this universe.

You've probably all read everything there is to read from KOTOR to the Thrawn trilogy, so you should really know better than staying stuck in one mindset.... Just sayin'..

 

Not gonna happen. fanboys don't think for themselves. only canon matters to them even when it can only agree with itself about 3 points.

 

Apparently palpatine was the best thing to ever exist in the universe despite how many times he lost and was magically better than everyone to ever exist.

 

Apparently Luke was so awesome that he could learn more than yoda did in 900 years in only 6 and be magically more powerful than everyone to ever exist.

 

Apparently Anakin was more powerful than anyone ever to exist and was 3 times as powerful as the emperor who also was more powerful than him.

 

So they were all 3 the most powerful beings in the verse. even to the extent of being more powerful than themselves and each other and then themselves again and they are all 3 the single most powerful person at the same time because canon said so.

 

I hope this helps you understand the nature of any vs thread on the forums. I have come to the conclusion that they only exist so fanboys can worship their gods on the internet and just like in a religion no reasonable debate is allowed you agree or are wrong. and they will bully you into agreement like religious zealots are known to do.

[Castiel]

Not gonna happen. fanboys don't think for themselves. only canon matters to them even when it can only agree with itself about 3 points.

 

Apparently palpatine was the best thing to ever exist in the universe despite how many times he lost and was magically better than everyone to ever exist.

 

Apparently Luke was so awesome that he could learn more than yoda did in 900 years in only 6 and be magically more powerful than everyone to ever exist.

 

Apparently Anakin was more powerful than anyone ever to exist and was 3 times as powerful as the emperor who also was more powerful than him.

 

So they were all 3 the most powerful beings in the verse. even to the extent of being more powerful than themselves and each other and then themselves again and they are all 3 the single most powerful person at the same time because canon said so.

 

I hope this helps you understand the nature of any vs thread on the forums. I have come to the conclusion that they only exist so fanboys can worship their gods on the internet and just like in a religion no reasonable debate is allowed you agree or are wrong. and they will bully you into agreement like religious zealots are known to do.

 

You speaketh truth, young one ! And I've understood it for a while, however, some people are sadly narrowminded and cannot for the life of them see other possibilities. Sad, right ?

[mefit]

Not gonna happen. fanboys don't think for themselves. only canon matters to them even when it can only agree with itself about 3 points.

 

Apparently palpatine was the best thing to ever exist in the universe despite how many times he lost and was magically better than everyone to ever exist.

 

Apparently Luke was so awesome that he could learn more than yoda did in 900 years in only 6 and be magically more powerful than everyone to ever exist.

 

Apparently Anakin was more powerful than anyone ever to exist and was 3 times as powerful as the emperor who also was more powerful than him.

 

So they were all 3 the most powerful beings in the verse. even to the extent of being more powerful than themselves and each other and then themselves again and they are all 3 the single most powerful person at the same time because canon said so.

 

I hope this helps you understand the nature of any vs thread on the forums. I have come to the conclusion that they only exist so fanboys can worship their gods on the internet and just like in a religion no reasonable debate is allowed you agree or are wrong. and they will bully you into agreement like religious zealots are known to do.

 

This is really where I am coming from in better words ! StarWars OT is over 30+ years old and these people seem to like Bland unchanging realities . Even Stan Lee , cocreator of Marvel let people go beyond his workings and didn't have people held back by characters that have grown past their time . Hulk could be beaten , X-men lost and people have died , Fantastic 4 lost and people died , and Spiderman has been all over the place with defeats and deaths around him.

 

The Fan Base of Luke are extreme and a bunch of bland unrealistic people who would go crazy if a Author was to kill him off finally or put him in the old folks home.

 

Alot of the people who are using their so called Canon are biased and use it in opinionated ways .

 

Example

Many would crush Revan.. .don't overrate him.

 

Vader, Obi, Yoda, Sidious, Luke, Mace, Satele, etc

BrandonMS said Satele could beat Revan in a post.................how does he know this? Did it happen ? I personally agree with what he said but my point of view is opinionated on the fact that she decends from him and being from a family of Jedi there must be passed down secrets and people within that family making those secrets better by perfecting them. But nothing in Canon states this and there for it is just opinion.

Edited April 2, 2012 by mefit

[mefit]

You speaketh truth, young one ! And I've understood it for a while, however, some people are sadly narrowminded and cannot for the life of them see other possibilities. Sad, right ?

 

I don't think it is that , they are just joining their so called cool school grouping of Fan Boys. Its a easier path to just fall in line than be the one to stand out and speak for themselves .

 

Lucas made StarWars , then allowed it to go into mediums such as Comics , Novels , and Games. He made the Canon thing to protect his original story arc to keep the Movies > all else.

To me when he did this it was from a buisness point of view and not his true belief . He is after all a writer who likes novels and movies.

 

I Believe that if you asked him who would win Luke or Han Solo , I am almost sure he would say Han Solo .

After all Harrison Ford has gotten a extreme amount of love from Lucas when it comes to films than anyone else who played in StarWars and not too mention , while I was bored yesterday I watched EP4-6 and Han Solo and Leia story within the story almost stole the show. You can tell alot went into their story than most all else.

[Aximand]

Gonna quote myself from the "Gray Jedi" thread.

 

The thing about this is the Canon system is set up to be as uncompromising as possible so you don't end up in a Star Trek situation with a ton of alternate realities. There's only one alternate reality in the Star Wars continuity, and that's made up of the stuff that takes place before, after and during the movies that isn't G-Canon.

 

Its like this, George Lucas considers the movies (and increasingly TCW TV show) to be it, and nothing else. The books, games and comics (and technically TCW) that take place all happened, they just happened in a different "universe" than the movies. As far as the G-Canon universe is concerned, the series ended with the movies, Luke is the last of the Jedi and Palps never returned as a clone yadda yadda yadda. This allows for a very strict system of continuity to be in place which is both a huge strength and pretty large weakness as far as Canon goes because it allows a very narrow interpretation.

 

So if Canon says that Sidious is the most powerful Sith that the Galaxy has ever seen, then Sidious is the most powerful Sith that the galaxy has ever seen, there's no wiggle room allowed by the Canon system that Star Wars uses. Its both the IP's greatest strength and greatest weakness because when you're talking about the very top end of the spectrum when it comes to Force Users, there is no compromise, it goes Luke, Sidious and then everyone else, it doesn't allow room for opinion as far as Canon goes.

[celebrei]

Difficult to answer this question, powerful in the force both of them are, but in terms of political power and success take the cake Sidious does.

[Sporadicus]

This is really where I am coming from in better words ! StarWars OT is over 30+ years old and these people seem to like Bland unchanging realities . Even Stan Lee , cocreator of Marvel let people go beyond his workings and didn't have people held back by characters that have grown past their time . Hulk could be beaten , X-men lost and people have died , Fantastic 4 lost and people died , and Spiderman has been all over the place with defeats and deaths around him.

 

The Fan Base of Luke are extreme and a bunch of bland unrealistic people who would go crazy if a Author was to kill him off finally or put him in the old folks home.

 

Alot of the people who are using their so called Canon are biased and use it in opinionated ways .

 

Example

 

BrandonMS said Satele could beat Revan in a post.................how does he know this? Did it happen ? I personally agree with what he said but my point of view is opinionated on the fact that she decends from him and being from a family of Jedi there must be passed down secrets and people within that family making those secrets better by perfecting them. But nothing in Canon states this and there for it is just opinion.

 

I agree totally things need to move on (well back in TOR case haha)

would be nice if they just said that (bar the movies) the rest happened in another universe, would be good so that we wouldn't know whom would eventually be the strongest etc

[Aximand]

I agree totally things need to move on (well back in TOR case haha)

would be nice if they just said that (bar the movies) the rest happened in another universe, would be good so that we wouldn't know whom would eventually be the strongest etc

 

Read my post on how Canon works.

[Sporadicus]

so hypothetically, if movies are g-cannon and TOR is C, then both in a way are alternate universe. right?

 

so would TOR, revan etc be C?

 

or have I just lost the plot :>

[Wolfninjajedi]

so hypothetically, if movies are g-cannon and TOR is C, then both in a way are alternate universe. right?

 

so would TOR, revan etc be C?

 

or have I just lost the plot :>

 

Thats right. C-canon can only become G-canon if they appear in the movies or other things Lucas himself approves of.

 

IE: YT-2400's were C-canon, but then were elevated to G-canon because they appeared later in ANH.

Edited April 2, 2012 by Wolfninjajedi

[BrandonSM]

This is really where I am coming from in better words ! StarWars OT is over 30+ years old and these people seem to like Bland unchanging realities . Even Stan Lee , cocreator of Marvel let people go beyond his workings and didn't have people held back by characters that have grown past their time . Hulk could be beaten , X-men lost and people have died , Fantastic 4 lost and people died , and Spiderman has been all over the place with defeats and deaths around him.

 

The Fan Base of Luke are extreme and a bunch of bland unrealistic people who would go crazy if a Author was to kill him off finally or put him in the old folks home.

 

Alot of the people who are using their so called Canon are biased and use it in opinionated ways .

 

Example

 

BrandonMS said Satele could beat Revan in a post.................how does he know this? Did it happen ? I personally agree with what he said but my point of view is opinionated on the fact that she decends from him and being from a family of Jedi there must be passed down secrets and people within that family making those secrets better by perfecting them. But nothing in Canon states this and there for it is just opinion.

 

 

 

This is where I think your misunderstanding. I'll say in my post that I'm posting canon fact. If I don't then its an opinionated reply.

 

Thats why there are these Arguement threads. If everything was stated out in canon fact, like GL Came out and said who would beat for every SW Character then we wouldn't have these threasds.

 

Its an arguement.

Edited April 2, 2012 by BrandonSM

[kcchieffan]

Stop buying into the Revanite faction. They worship him, and they obviously have no idea about the facts, considering their leader believes Revan defeated the Emperor and took his place at the top of the Sith Empire.

 

Revan was a Jedi Knight. Then he fell to the Dark Side and became a Sith Lord. Then he got mind wiped, retrained as a Jedi, and presumably became a Master. That doesnt necessarily mean he mastered "the light and dark side and become something more than a jedi or sith".

 

Many Jedi have fallen to the dark side and come back. Luke, Anakin, Kyp Duron... the list goes on. The "Something more than Jedi or Sith" is just rampant Revan fanboyism which has no basis in fact.

 

Yes he was strong for his time, but he hasnt done anything that compares to a lot of other powerful force users.

 

 

"However, Revan was prepared. Instead of charging forward, he opened himself up to the Force, letting both the light and the dark side flow through him like twin rushing rivers. Revan then released the Force in its purest form. There was brilliant flash as the air between the two combatants lit up. The energy unleashed was powerful enough to send the Emperor flying in the air in the backward direction"

 

He also used the Force to instill comfort and hope in the minds of his family members across the span of the galaxy. Apparently, he was able to hold Lord Vitiate off for centuries, as the Sith Emperor didn't attack the Republic for at least 300 years, more than long enough for Revan's son to grow up and never face the fear of total annihilation.[2]

 

 

When Bane discovered his precursor's legacy, he not only developed a new understanding of the Sith or the dark side, but also came to fiercely admire the Sith Lord who Revan had once been. Although Revan was redeemed in the light as a Jedi, Bane idolized Darth Revan as one of the greatest Sith Lords in history

 

Revan is among the few individuals in galactic history, who had significant exposure to both the light and dark sides of the Force, and he proved to be highly skilled in the use of both of these aspects of the Force. Due to these experiences, he was able to develop a perfect understanding of the concept of Unifying Force. During Revan's tenure as a Jedi Master, his command of the Force had reached to such a degree that he could channel both the light and dark sides of the Force simultaneously to perform unique feats.[2] Both as a Sith Lord and as a Jedi, Revan learned a variety of Force abilities to succeed in his plans.

 

Revan was proficient in the application of Force lightning,[3] and also in the use of defensive techniques to counter it.[2] Revan could use his bare hands to absorb and deflect very powerful Force lightning attacks.[2] Very few Force-users in the galactic history have demonstrated this ability.

 

During his reign as Dark Lord of the Sith, Revan created a Holocron in which he feeded information of many dangerous Sith techniques and rituals, including the deadly Thought bomb. Several millennia later, this holocron was discovered by Darth Bane, who noted that Revan's knowledge of Sith Lore was greater than the entire information contained in the archives of the Sith Academy in Korriban in his time

 

Sounds like he did quite a bit and he was considered the most powerful jedi of his time.

Oh and that whole rule of two thing Darth Bane created was based of whos idea of yeah Reven.

Edited April 2, 2012 by kcchieffan

[BrandonSM]

"However, Revan was prepared. Instead of charging forward, he opened himself up to the Force, letting both the light and the dark side flow through him like twin rushing rivers. Revan then released the Force in its purest form. There was brilliant flash as the air between the two combatants lit up. The energy unleashed was powerful enough to send the Emperor flying in the air in the backward direction"

 

He also used the Force to instill comfort and hope in the minds of his family members across the span of the galaxy. Apparently, he was able to hold Lord Vitiate off for centuries, as the Sith Emperor didn't attack the Republic for at least 300 years, more than long enough for Revan's son to grow up and never face the fear of total annihilation.[2]

 

 

When Bane discovered his precursor's legacy, he not only developed a new understanding of the Sith or the dark side, but also came to fiercely admire the Sith Lord who Revan had once been. Although Revan was redeemed in the light as a Jedi, Bane idolized Darth Revan as one of the greatest Sith Lords in history

 

Revan is among the few individuals in galactic history, who had significant exposure to both the light and dark sides of the Force, and he proved to be highly skilled in the use of both of these aspects of the Force. Due to these experiences, he was able to develop a perfect understanding of the concept of Unifying Force. During Revan's tenure as a Jedi Master, his command of the Force had reached to such a degree that he could channel both the light and dark sides of the Force simultaneously to perform unique feats.[2] Both as a Sith Lord and as a Jedi, Revan learned a variety of Force abilities to succeed in his plans.

 

Revan was proficient in the application of Force lightning,[3] and also in the use of defensive techniques to counter it.[2] Revan could use his bare hands to absorb and deflect very powerful Force lightning attacks.[2] Very few Force-users in the galactic history have demonstrated this ability.

 

During his reign as Dark Lord of the Sith, Revan created a Holocron in which he feeded information of many dangerous Sith techniques and rituals, including the deadly Thought bomb. Several millennia later, this holocron was discovered by Darth Bane, who noted that Revan's knowledge of Sith Lore was greater than the entire information contained in the archives of the Sith Academy in Korriban in his time

 

 

You should really Cite the text before copying and pasting.

 

 

You do realize that in modern day SW, none of those is truly impressive except for the Pure Force Energy?

 

 

Creating a holocron and teaching Bane doesn't make him powerful btw. Were talking combat Power.

[Sporadicus]

Well for combat power it's hard to say as if revan was pretty epic and everyone says the most powerful jedi of his time, ifnot TOR (main reason he lost at that point was because scourge wet himself due to a vision and didn't know what to do) not to say revan would of won, I think he would of lost anyway as that is what makes a good main enmey, more or less untouchable with little pockets of weakness due to being out numberd, chances etc (not like sidious being always beat by luke) not trying to start a argument but their aren't exactly many emporers to chose from that fight a single jedi and lose.

 

but as it is C cannon and G cannon, I personally shall just ignore G cannon as C cannon is what makes star wars fun for me :>

 

oh, sorry if I bother anyone

[kcchieffan]

You should really Cite the text before copying and pasting.

 

 

You do realize that in modern day SW, none of those is truly impressive except for the Pure Force Energy?

 

 

Creating a holocron and teaching Bane doesn't make him powerful btw. Were talking combat Power.

 

it all came from wookieepedia

[kcchieffan]

Well for combat power it's hard to say as if revan was pretty epic and everyone says the most powerful jedi of his time, ifnot TOR (main reason he lost at that point was because scourge wet himself due to a vision and didn't know what to do) not to say revan would of won, I think he would of lost anyway as that is what makes a good main enmey, more or less untouchable with little pockets of weakness due to being out numberd, chances etc (not like sidious being always beat by luke) not trying to start a argument but their aren't exactly many emporers to chose from that fight a single jedi and lose.

 

but as it is C cannon and G cannon, I personally shall just ignore G cannon as C cannon is what makes star wars fun for me :>

 

oh, sorry if I bother anyone

 

I agree c cannon makes the star wars universe way more fun!!

[Aximand]

Well for combat power it's hard to say as if revan was pretty epic and everyone says the most powerful jedi of his time, ifnot TOR (main reason he lost at that point was because scourge wet himself due to a vision and didn't know what to do) not to say revan would of won, I think he would of lost anyway as that is what makes a good main enmey, more or less untouchable with little pockets of weakness due to being out numberd, chances etc (not like sidious being always beat by luke) not trying to start a argument but their aren't exactly many emporers to chose from that fight a single jedi and lose.

 

but as it is C cannon and G cannon, I personally shall just ignore G cannon as C cannon is what makes star wars fun for me :>

 

oh, sorry if I bother anyone

 

You can ignore G-Canon if you want, all it does is make you wrong. Even ignoring G-Canon you still have the novelizations of the movies (which are considered C-Canon) that already state that Sidious is the most powerful Sith ever. When it boils down to it, Revan is pretty mediocre compared to some of the bigger big bads.

[Wolfninjajedi]

You can ignore G-Canon if you want, all it does is make you wrong. Even ignoring G-Canon you still have the novelizations of the movies (which are considered C-Canon) that already state that Sidious is the most powerful Sith ever. When it boils down to it, Revan is pretty mediocre compared to some of the bigger big bads.

 

Actually the novels of the movies are G-canon.

[Sporadicus]

You can ignore G-Canon if you want, all it does is make you wrong. Even ignoring G-Canon you still have the novelizations of the movies (which are considered C-Canon) that already state that Sidious is the most powerful Sith ever. When it boils down to it, Revan is pretty mediocre compared to some of the bigger big bads.

 

I ignore G cannon as I don't enjoy it, that's all

G cannon feels empty to me as it's all about the solo and skywalker family, sidous etc.

I just prefer TOR, KOROR as it is just more intresting, hyperspace wars etc, anchent sith, exar kunn. is all great to me, compared to that G cannon only has skywalker family and solo family (I will be honest, I have only read wookipidea for this and that to see if luke is still being superman) bah, I am going of topic.

 

point is I shall ignore what bores me as it has not real impact on KOTOR/TOR.

also revan, just to point out, has done more then lets say oh luke, (luke in my opinion is not excatly a good charecter as he is just superman, which makes it no challenge or anything, when I read about revan fighting emperor, it was more enjoyment as the good guys (no matter how powerful and epic he was) lost. as he was the most powerful. it just makes for a much better story and charecter. damn.. hate going on but cba to delete it all so hope you can grasp from my drivel that I like C cannon and G cannon bores me so I shall just discard it, and that does not make me wrong in anyway, or vice versa.

 

(sorry for making you guys read my essay)

[Rayla_Felana]

it all came from wookieepedia

 

Which has non-canon abilities for Revan, game mechanics are not canon, as for example Force Lightning is not something we know he used because of an actual cut-scene or other source, it is just something a player can choose in-game when they level up, we don't actually know what powers Revan had.

[BrandonSM]

I ignore G cannon as I don't enjoy it, that's all

G cannon feels empty to me as it's all about the solo and skywalker family, sidous etc.

I just prefer TOR, KOROR as it is just more intresting, hyperspace wars etc, anchent sith, exar kunn. is all great to me, compared to that G cannon only has skywalker family and solo family (I will be honest, I have only read wookipidea for this and that to see if luke is still being superman) bah, I am going of topic.

 

point is I shall ignore what bores me as it has not real impact on KOTOR/TOR.

also revan, just to point out, has done more then lets say oh luke, (luke in my opinion is not excatly a good charecter as he is just superman, which makes it no challenge or anything, when I read about revan fighting emperor, it was more enjoyment as the good guys (no matter how powerful and epic he was) lost. as he was the most powerful. it just makes for a much better story and charecter. damn.. hate going on but cba to delete it all so hope you can grasp from my drivel that I like C cannon and G cannon bores me so I shall just discard it, and that does not make me wrong in anyway, or vice versa.

 

(sorry for making you guys read my essay)

 

G-Canon is the movies... you don't like the movies? All G-canon is, is the Movies and What GL says.

[kcchieffan]

G-Canon is the movies... you don't like the movies? All G-canon is, is the Movies and What GL says.

 

While the original 3 were pretty good movies Episodes 1,2,3 could have been so much better!

 

I think Mr. Lucas should of hired on the writers from bioware to help with the orginal three, it may have turned let down movies into epic movies. Geroge may have created this universe but it would be nothing without the people who continue to make it grow. So to everyone who says all that matters is G cannon is ludacris. If that were the case then George shouldn't of ever let anyone make any kind of eu!!

Edited April 2, 2012 by kcchieffan

[Wolfninjajedi]

While the original 3 were pretty good movies Episodes 1,2,3 could have been so much better!

 

I think Mr. Lucas should of hired on the writers from bioware to help with the orginal three, it may have turned let down movies into epic movies. Geroge may have created this universe but it would be nothing without the people who continue to make it grow. So to everyone who says all that matters is G cannon is ludacris. If that were the case then George shouldn't of ever let anyone make any kind of eu!!

 

G-canon only matters, if something in lower canon says something different then what G-canon has stated. Or if someone says something about a character, and that is proven wrong via a G-canon source.

Edited April 2, 2012 by Wolfninjajedi

[Sporadicus]

While the original 3 were pretty good movies Episodes 1,2,3 could have been so much better!

 

I think Mr. Lucas should of hired on the writers from bioware to help with the orginal three, it may have turned let down movies into epic movies. Geroge may have created this universe but it would be nothing without the people who continue to make it grow. So to everyone who says all that matters is G cannon is ludacris. If that were the case then George shouldn't of ever let anyone make any kind of eu!!

 

I agree. I liked the movies 4-6 but I wouldn't say there were my best star wars experience(1-3 were a travesty, also all the continuation of skywalker family and solo are just not my cuppa tea is all.)

it would of TOR, and everything it has to offer, from the hyper space war to the pure blood, characters (not just revan :>)

 

So as I don't 'Have to listen to/acknowledge G cannon as the surprime story, I don't.

 

I don't see the problem, I in no way wish to say those who like G cannon's views are wrong or anything. I just like what I like and ignore what I am in a position to do

[LemmingLeader]

And yet Vader one shots him left handed? Can't be that tough meat.

 

Overconfidence got the better of Palpatine, who was so focused on the joy of shocking Luke to his death.

 

As someone said earlier, nobody is invincible, immortal.

 

Sidious may have died, but he died having accomplished more than any other Jedi, Sith, or anyone else in between. He took over the g*dd*mn Star Wars universe and utterly crushed the Jedi Order. Goals that the Sith have tried, and tried, and tried, and tried again, for thousands and thousands of years, yet each failed at every attempt, no matter the number and power of the Sith. Nobody else in Star Wars can lay claim Sidious' accomplishments. Nobody else in Star Wars can even dare to compete with that in sheer accomplishments.

 

Again, and finally, people can talk about how someone can do parlor tricks with the force, or how effective they were with the lightsaber, or how they were a master of light, dark, or even both sides of the force. But when it comes down to actual, bonafide accomplishments in the Star Wars universe? Taking over the entire Star Wars galaxy, taking over (not just conquering) your greatest rival, the Republic, and utterly destroying the Jedi Order, while having little resources of your own? I confidently can claim that nobody else in SW is even worthy to stand in Sidious' shadows.

 

Nobody.