Addons – Combat Logs – Macros (Why SW:TOR needs it)

[Xcore]

 

Addons – Combat Logs – Macros (Why SW:TOR needs it)

 

 

 

Hello,

 

Before we get started, I would like you to consider these pieces I have written/contributed:

 

My Early Review of SW:TOR – http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=76222

Ability Delay and Character Responsiveness – http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=133110

 

*Please, rate the thread to support the honest discussion of this very important topic*

 

Why am I writing this? Am I just another troll? Am I just another WoW Fanboi?:

 

I write this following analysis once more, as the above two pieces for no other reason than truly wanting SW:TOR to succeed, meet and exceed all expectations and potential. Please understand that whether you agree with my sentiment or not, I don’t mean to offend or troll. I truly believe that SW:TOR has the potential to be the next “Market Leader” and Standard in the MMO Genre.

 

A little Background on myself: *I realize you may think this arrogant, though I simply want you to know me a little better before getting into the subject at hand. Feel free to skip if you are offended by this part*

 

I would like to say that my MMO Gaming background started with SWG. This was my first MMORPG and I will likely never forget the feeling of “awe” when I took my first steps outside of Coronet, not understanding the technicalities of the genre. I would simply set up camp (I was a Scout) outside (not too far away from the City!) in the wilderness and enjoy being in the world itself. I had no care to kill anything to progress; I had no idea what “Gearing” even meant. It was amazing watching the sunset from my small camp. Sometimes, a traveller would sit down and join me waiting for the next sunrise.

I have gone on to become more competitive, understand the system and essentially molded into a “Hardcore” Player. Having endured the “CU” (Combat Upgrade), I succumbed to the “NGE” (New Game Enhancements) and was forced to quit.

 

My other notable MMO experience would come from the current “Market Leader” itself, World of Warcaft. In “Vanilla” WoW, I got up to Marshal PvP Rank (Before Rank Nerfs). During “TBC” (The Burning Crusade) I was fortunate enough to Raid Top100 World with the guilds <Templar Knights> and <Damage Networks> through T5 and T6 respectively. With WotLK I was able to get back into Top100 Raiding (though only U.S.) with <Tasty Beverage> through T8. Having grown increasingly frustrated with Blizzard and their direction with WoW, I decided to step down during Cataclysm and altogether quit once SW:TOR released.

 

Tiny Personal Note* I am happy to say that all of my gaming time is shared with my amazing fiancée. Sharing a hobby such as gaming with someone you love is the most amazing joy. Whether it be Arena PvP, Dou-Questing, Instancing etc. So a big THANK YOU! to her! For putting up with my elitism all this time!

 

Note: Of course I have tried every AAA MMO on the market as well…

 

 

 

Addons – Combat Logs – Macros (Why SW:TOR needs it)

 

 

 

 

Addons:

 

 

It is evident that the community is “incredibly” divided over these issues, perhaps most of all “Addons”. From one perspective, Addons are held to be a necessity to a prosperous gaming environment. From the other perspective, Addons are the very evil that has infested the Genre, molding it into an Elitist crackpot and removing all the fun essentially.

 

I would like to firstly make my statement, give you (The Reader) my reason for the necessity of Addons in SW:TOR. One can argue that Addons such as “Gearscore” or “Recount (Damage Meters)” are abominations of World of Warcraft, giving rise to nothing but blatant elitism and ruined the entire community. I would like to first have you consider the incredible weight of positive values of Addons as a whole.

 

MMOs are in constant evolution, every single patch the MMO can evolve into exciting, new and different ways. This is what keeps it fresh, this is the reason you play WoW (or another MMO) for 5-6 Years and not 2-5 Months. Of course the content patches are one reason but the real reason WoW never seems to get “stale” is that it is always evolving. Without the community (Addon Creators) WoW (and even the entire MMO Genre) would not be where it is at this point, you may argue the exact origin of these features, nonetheless it is Addons and the Modding Community that have elevated them:

 

 

UI Customization – Before WoW and UI Addons, the MMO Genre was pretty well stuck with whatever UI the Developer gave you. We have come to a point now where we as Gamers “expect” better. This is because we’re used to this incredible flexibility. We can customize our MMO experience! This is a good thing, in all forms of life and business the ability to customize to your own liking/needs is invaluable. Imaging only being able to get Coffee, black, 1 sugar. Why confine us, let us break free, if I’d like my bars to glow purple instead of blue… why forbid me? Perhaps I click only 3 abilities and I love it, why not allow me to hide all my bars and just show 3 abilities in the center!? Etc.

 

Threat Meters – The simple inclusion of Threat Meters have changed the entire Dynamics of PvE Raiding/Boss Encounters within the MMO Genre! Because we no longer have to be ultra-careful and sensitive to “guessworking” our threats we can now “maximize” our collective damage output throughout the encounter. This leads to “MUCH” tighter tuned Boss Encounters and much more fun challenges.

 

As Gamers we now expect amazing, challenging, fun and tightly tuned Boss Encounters in our Raid Environments. However, we must appreciate the REASON we expect this and the fact that it would not be possible unless one eliminates the more boring guesswork of “Threat Management”. Having something as simple as Threat Meters has a great and positive effect on the design potential on PvE Encounters. Please realize that Blizzard has incorporated Threat Meters into the Game’s actual UI! Much like Target of Target and Focus Target (Those used to be Addons!).

 

Note: I am not arguing that Threat should be made irrelevant – Threat Meters are merely a tool to maximize personal and collective efficiency. Thus opening opportunities for the designers to challenge you more and more!

 

DBM (Deadly Boss Mods) and other Raid Announcers/Warnings – This is what I am personally most torn about. On the one hand, one has to realize that “Encounter Announcement Mods” have the same effect as the above with Threat Meters. However, at the same time a solid argument can be made against it, that it reduces the average awareness and skill of players. Of course no-one would be so obnoxious as to argue that “The Addon plays for you”, but it does help out quite a lot.

 

I must point out, that this one aspect I am very much open for discussion. Having raided at the top end of the PvE Progression Spectrum, I appreciate the value of raiding without such Addons. However, this is an “evil” that I believe is worth taking for the greater (much greater) benefit of having Addons period.

 

I feel the need to point out WoW’s debacle during Icecrown Citadel Progression in WotLK with the “AVR” Addon. This one allowed the Raid Leader to basically draw and mark outlines/arrows etc. and anyone within the Raid who also had the Addon would see this on their screen. To be honest, ingenious little tool. However, completely negating the entire process of playing your character to the environment and surroundings. Blizzard put a stop to this Addon rather swiftly, it is no longer usable in any way.

 

Perhaps if Bioware can monitor the Addons related to PvE Encounter Announcements as vigilantly as Blizzard, we can move forward. I feel the need to point out that Bioware should not be “Draconian” about the monitoring, this would negate the entire Modding Community and undermine the efforts of evolving/customizing the game itself.

 

Recount (Damage Meters) – Once more, a very “touchy” subject for most opposing the notion of Addons. While at the same time a very supported tool for those in favor. Lets attempt to unravel this mystery. What Recount does is simply provide detailed statistics for the course of combat, it shows the personal and group/raid data in respects to Damage/Healing/Damage Taken/Death’s/DoT Uptime etc. It is actually quite intricate and accurate.

 

I completely understand the counter arguments, does this breed elitism? People use it to “point fingers” at those not performing to a certain standard? Does this divide/degrade the community? All of these arguments are valid and worth discussing honestly. However, I must point out the overwhelming positives.

 

It is very hard to initially, on the surface, see the benefits. So what if you can see my damage and healing? What does that actually do besides give excuses for Elitism?

 

Please, attempt to understand the incredible importance that “Data Analysis” has within “tightly tuned” PvE Environments. The ability to absolutely deconstruct events and analyze every single tick of damage, every single heal and all the details of the combat events that took place is absolutely “invaluable”. This allows for a higher level of awareness, understanding and overall performance from the Raid/Group. This raising in performance means that the PvE Designers can now tune tighter, more challenging content, faster enrage timers, more complex mechanics etc.

 

I can go into elaborate detail for more complex potential mechanics that one cannot design without the assumption that the Raid has the ability to see events in detail through a Combat Log/Addon. Without the assumption that the people doing the content have the ability to analyze properly, one cannot create seriously complex PvE Puzzles (Puzzles -> Progression of Mechanics).

 

Trial and Error is not possible for some of these things. It is possible to create mechanics so complex that trial and error would take “incredible” long amounts of time. At which point it eliminates the fun of cracking the puzzle. If you disagree, I do believe you will agree after your 600th wipe on X Boss.

 

Data Analysis of Combat Events is crucial for the evolution of PvE Content, we don’t want to see Onyxia Style Raiding again. More Mu’ru/Kil’jaedan/Lich King/Ragnaros complexity!

 

I urge you to see these videos: (This Design Complexity is not achievable without the assumption that "some" of these mods are being used)...

 

Kil'Jaedan World First - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G3LC1rCp9hE

Lich King World First (Part 1) -

Lich King World First (Part 2) -

Lich King World First (Part 3) -

Ragnaros World First -

 

 

 

In Conclusion on PvE and Addons:

 

These are not simply to make things easier or play the game for you. These tools, this entire toolset of Threatmeters/Combat-Data Analysis/Boss Encounter Announcers are THE reason WoW has the tightly tuned, amazing PvE Endgame that it does. It has evolved this way, we came from Onyxia (No Addons “nearly”) to Lich King/Deathwing (Addons). What a positive evolution! I argue, without Addons we’d be stuck with static, Tank/Spank fights and simple movements.

 

If I can do anything at all with this thread and OP, I wish that everyone realize the “behind-the-scenes” effects that Addons have. It is not as Black/White as “Plays game for you”, “Breeds Elitism”. They create a better game, not better because you get removed from a group due to some Elitist but because the Encounters have a higher potential for tight tuning and thus greater challenge, more “FUN”.

 

Note: I am talking about the echelon of PvE – Operations, not regular FPs (though also applies to a lesser degree).

 

PvP Addons – I will just make it one argument and not break down individual Addons for PvP as there appears to be less debate here, less conflicting interests. Things such as “Target of Target”, “Focus Target” were originally Addons and due to their incredible popularity and “Quality of Life” enhancements, “Game Experience” enhancements, they were incorporated into the standard UIs.

 

It is not taking away the “skill” from the PvP, it in fact fine-tunes this aspect. A player who can utilize Focus Target swapping has mastered a whole other level of potential than one who is unable. It is the same relation as “Clicking” vs. “Keybinding” for PvP. Sure there are some silly PvP Addons as well but nonetheless, the potential for higher skillcaps and evolving this aspect of the game surely is an overwhelming positive.

 

Last word on the topic of Addons:

 

Without Addon Support we will miss out on so many possibly amazing revelations, sure there will be roadblocks and “Bad Addons” such as AVR etc. However, the positives, the potential of evolution is so much greater and so much more valuable that for SW:TOR not to have Addon Support, I believe would be a grave disservice.

 

I would urge you to not get hung-up on “Gearscore” or an elitist misusing a tool such as “Recount”. Instead attempt to use these tools yourself! (You don’t have to!) They are merely tools, if you don’t necessarily understand them or feel overwhelmed, its ok to learn (Its actually made “very” userfriendly). Its also just as ok to simply not use them. For the longest time I used no addons in WoW during Cataclysm. I simply didn’t feel the need for it, no-one has ever pointed this out as a negative as my play style generally was good. Very lastly I want to say, please, do not stop yourself from understanding the greater aspects and effects Addons have for the evolution of an MMO. They are vitally important for sustained growth.

 

Allowing addons is akin to expanding your creative development team by a few hundred thousands or more… it is worth it, the gems hidden in the mud are invaluable.

 

 

 

Combat Log:

 

 

The topic of Combat Logs does tie into Addons but not entirely. Even if you are opposed to Addons as a whole, I believe that just about anyone should support the inclusion of a Combat Log. It is incredibly valuable data, it is also a valuable tool to find discrepancies, balancing problems, bugs etc.

 

Not having a working Combat Log effectively blinds the playerbase to the “behind-the-scenes” events! This I don’t believe is right at all. It is fine to argue and discuss Addons but to be against the inclusion of a working Combat Log is beyond me.

 

As I stated previously, it effectively blinds the playerbase to combat events, this should ring an alarm immediately in your mind. It is fine if someone does not “use” the combat log, I have no problem with that but to actually forbid it entirely is a very strange decision.

 

Lastly, on this simple subject. I realize Bioware wishes to disconnect the Player from the “Mechanics” of the game, those “behind-the-scenes” things. However, I believe this to be very naïve and ultimately damaging to the growth potential of SW:TOR. Fact is, gamers are hungry to improve, to analyze, to compete… to be better, to maximize. Denying the tools is not a good business model, in my humble opinion.

 

 

 

Macros:

 

 

Macros are a very misunderstood subject, I must firstly state that I personally do not use Macros heavily. I have had “some” but nothing to write home about. I also realize that certain people who are well versed in the arts of “Macro” (not SC2 Macro!) are capable of creating a potential advantage over non-Macro users.

 

I can really not comment heavily (apologies) as I don’t have the background knowledge and experience to do so comfortably. However, I would like to share my naïve opinion:

 

I think a great “Pro” for the inclusion of Macros is, creativity. My fiancée once created a Macro that let her “Summon Mount” button summon any of her Ground Mounts (Or Flying with “Shift” Key) completely at random! Which made her so happy for some reason. Such a simple, harmless little thing elevated her entire gaming experience! I think that is very important to consider. These little things, are what separate Good from Excellent in this genre. Lets not discount it.

 

Of course I can also imagine the “Cons” as I stated earlier. It is possible a Macro can be created to essentially do your entire combat rotation via 1 button press! This to me, is un-acceptable.

 

In conclusion to Macros, my stance is: Only if its controlled enough to not affect real world performance.

 

 

 

I realize that this entire OP is very lengthy, I apologizes for the lack of a tl;dr. I believe that discussion (proper) is very important on this topic as I passionately want SW:TOR to succeed and at the same time

 

believe that Addon Support and the Modding Community are a Key to this, the Combat Log is a no-brainer to me, Macros are an iffy and not completely Black/White subject either. I hope that you enjoyed reading my perspective on this topic and at the very least (Agree or Disagree) have been stimulated to discussion.

 

I would like to state that I will continue to Update the OP in similar fashion as I have the Ability Delay and Character Responsiveness Thread so as to evolve our understanding of this very important subject as well.

 

 

 

Thank you for reading!

 

 

Edited January 6, 2012 by Xcore

[Scubapro]

agreed. If Bioware doesnt allow at least UI customization (bar mods UI mods) this game will be dead within a year.

[GyroGate]

agreed. If Bioware doesnt allow at least UI customization (bar mods UI mods) this game will be dead within a year.

 

If x isn't implemented, then this game will be dead within a year.

 

Pretty tired of hearing that, might want to come up with something new.

 

These forums sure do feel a lot like what the World of Warcraft forums did when that game launched. Or well, every other MMo's forum through the ages.

 

I sure as hell don't need addons nor macros to play my game for me.

 

I can do just fine without, so I sincerely hope they never allow them in this game.

 

Seems to me like you guys are looking for a mod to play the game for you, I sure don't.

 

I'm pretty darn tired of the simplicity of PvP and PvE from the overuse of addons - especially through addons like recount, gearscore and other completely silly additions that are not needed at all. I remember back when I played DAoC, we used our Combat Logs to figure out things we wanted to know - we didn't need recount to tell us if we where clicking our buttons correctly. I don't NEED anything that measures my performance. I don't NEED to watch a bar update to tell me how well I can click my buttons in the correct order to "maximize" my damage output. I have a brain, I can figure it out for myself.

 

World of Warcraft really did well to dumb down MMos and I can't possibly fathom why ANYONE would want these additions to a great game like this.

 

Add a combat log, anything else is trivial.

Edited January 6, 2012 by GyroGate

[Xcore]

If x isn't implemented, then this game will be dead within a year.

 

Pretty tired of hearing that, might want to come up with something new.

 

These forums sure do feel a lot like what the World of Warcraft forums did when that game launched. Or well, every other MMo's forum through the ages.

 

I sure as hell don't need addons nor macros to play my game for me.

I can do just fine without, so I sincerely hope they never allow them in this game.

 

Seems to me like you guys are looking for a mod to play the game for you, I sure don't.

 

Why have you not even bothered to read the OP?... ?

Edited January 6, 2012 by Xcore

[GyroGate]

Why have you not even bothered to read the OP?... ?

 

Post updated bro-daddy.

[KiroLM]

Combat Logs == 1,000,000 NERF/OP/BUFF CLASS posts.

 

No.

[ToliverGrey]

Because we no longer have to be ultra-careful and sensitive to “guessworking” our threats we can now “maximize” our collective damage output throughout the encounter. This leads to “MUCH” tighter tuned Boss Encounters and much more fun challenges.

 

Here is my fundamental disagreement, however. More tightly tuned Boss encounters, with ever increasing numbers of phases and one-shot mechanics is not fun. At all. It became tedious.

 

Compare the fight in WoW that is my all time favorite. Shade of Aran. Total Mechanics to look out for: 6. He randomly bolts people with elemental spells, randomly does an aoe counterspell, casts blizzard that you must avoid, pulls people to the center who then must move out again, casts flame wreath during which no one should move, and summoned adds for his last phase. Fun fun fun fight. Six mechanics.

 

Compare that to WoW's evolution as raiders came to depend more and more on addons...every stage just heaped on more mechanics, more things to remember, more tedium. Not necessarily new, interesting mechanics, but rather more adds, more different damage spells, more aoes...etc.

[Miye]

Macros, combat logs etc. just make the game like math. No one likes math. Deal with it.

 

UI customization to an extent is ok. But no threat-fricking-meters.

Edited January 6, 2012 by Miye

[Togx]

Macros, combat logs etc. just make the game like math. No one likes math. Deal with it.

 

Not sure if serious, some people do like math, and some people do like pushing their class. Currently there is no way to push your gameplay because you don't know what stats are most effective for dps, what rotation will grant you the best dps or even if some spells are worth casting or not. You are completely blindfolded while you play this game.

[Mandrax]

Don't hold your breath for mod support, Stephen Reid said in his Reddit Q&A that it isn't a high priority of theirs right now.

[Maoxx]

Combat Logs == 1,000,000 NERF/OP/BUFF CLASS posts.

 

No.

 

Could you be anymore ignorant with that post? Combat logs themselves don't do that its the people playing their characters whining because X class is beating them either in doing their job or PVP, and rather than try to figure out their on shortcoming (amazingly enough a combat log would HELP with this) they come to the forums and whine till they either quit or get their way. Blaming the mentality of the users on a tool is just as ridiculous as when you see some parent blaming a video game for the fact that their child did something stupid.

[JediMasterShake]

The only reason they didn't launch with a combat log is because it was a bag of crap. Completely broken.

 

Games like this HAVE to have logs, or else you lose an enormous amount of complexity to the game from the player's perspective. While many people are content with just clicking away, a large section of the MMO population enjoys and NEEDS to be able to analyze the output of their abilities.

 

It is not an optional feature.

 

 

As for the rest of it, sure. If they are going to copy WoW, they might as well go the full monty. There's no reason not to.

[JediMasterShake]

Could you be anymore ignorant with that post? Combat logs themselves don't do that its the people playing their characters whining because X class is beating them either in doing their job or PVP, and rather than try to figure out their on shortcoming (amazingly enough a combat log would HELP with this) they come to the forums and whine till they either quit or get their way. Blaming the mentality of the users on a tool is just as ridiculous as when you see some parent blaming a video game for the fact that their child did something stupid.

 

 

Hahaha. Great analogy.

 

Guns don't kill people. Morons kill people.

[Aryzyra]

Nice post. Perhaps OP should just link the resume though, rather than reposting each time.

 

UI modification and combat log are necessary. Nobody should be against these.

 

With a decent UI setup, macros aren't as important. But social/non-combat macros can add a lot of flavor. Shrugs.

 

I wouldn't mind dropping the ability to broadcast boss events (e.g. DBM alerts) for an exchange of an additional second in boss cast times, with a noticeable graphical element. Just depends how tight BW wants to make the high level play.

 

Anyway, mostly posting to rate. Good amount of effort obviously went into this post.

[Mcgimp]

Not sure if serious, some people do like math, and some people do like pushing their class. Currently there is no way to push your gameplay because you don't know what stats are most effective for dps, what rotation will grant you the best dps or even if some spells are worth casting or not. You are completely blindfolded while you play this game.

 

So, rather than plug a formula into something like Rawr Dps, you have to actually play and understand your class for yourself...**** that sucks.

[angrYdog]

i agree with combat logs..just to make sure if someone use sploits...

 

noone needs macros so..

[Aryzyra]

So, rather than plug a formula into something like Rawr Dps, you have to actually play and understand your class for yourself...**** that sucks.

 

It's the opposite. (Currently) the only way to figure out if you're playing effectively is to spreadsheet out of game.

Edited January 6, 2012 by Aryzyra

[Vincethejedi]

Combat Logs == 1,000,000 NERF/OP/BUFF CLASS posts.

 

No.

 

IMO this makes zero sense. Classes get buffed or nerfed based on PvP QQ most of the time, in my experience.

 

I hope SWTOR can differentiate PvP and PVE better than the "Other" MMO, because it's a shame so many classes get nerfed in PvE because of PVP QQ, IMO.

 

Not having combat logs == not knowing which raid members are pulling their weight, or worse, afk during boss fights.

 

Without combat logs or macros, the person who can click buttons most accurately will win, and people who use 2 hands on keyboard will have a huge advantage over conventional keyboard/mouse set up. Not fun IMO. I think it should be about class knowledge and skill rather than a person's ability to move a mouse cursor and click (BTW, said person will be watching his action bars, instead of the raid).

 

Finally, the argument AGAINST addons/macros is made completely moot by the game's UI still being largely in it's infancy, and without the lightning fast responsiveness needed for a game that doesn't allow add ons.

 

It's only a matter of time before addons/combat logs/and macros are put into the game. I'm sure they have bigger fish to fry at the moment, but they are coming whether you like it or not.

[Zeppelin]

Just look at the Jedi Knight forums and the number of, "I'm overwhelmed by the sheer number of abilities I have" threads

[Uhuru]

Nice post - you did a lot of good work for the community on this.

 

I am in favor of combat logs. I am not a math person but I do realize their importance to a lot of the high end gaming crowd. Sort of a necessary evil in my book, but there you go.

 

Addons and macros would need to be heavily regulated. No deadly boss mod types or macros that symplify the the combat mechanics. Also, no gearscore mods. I think that is one of the most misunderstood and therefore damaging mod for WoW.

 

I am also in favor of a Flashpoint finder that is server only. Just in case anybody was curious

[burningxinear]

I don't understand how anyone can be against combat logs, for all of the reasons stated above. As a player, I like to know what I did and what happened to me.

 

Additionally, addons such as Recount and DamageMeters are necessary to gauge whether a player is good at their job or not. If you're doing your job properly, you should have no problem with these types of addons. People against these types of addons claim that they "play the game for me" or "dumb it down" when actually just the opposite is true; they allow you to improve your gameplay drastically - as well as weed out the baddies.

[PBoggio]

I will begin as the original poster did by showing off how long my beard is. My first MMO was Everquest which I started playing in 1999 before the first expansion (Ruins of Kunark) came out.

 

I personally have a major objection to 3rd party addons of any kind. and not because of the reasons you stated.

 

3rd party addons give an advantage to those who use them. those who do not use them don't get the advantage. So the addon users will out perform the non addon players.

 

Addon users will more easily defeat difficult encounters. The developers have a behind the scenes plan for how tough the encounter should be. If they find that their content is being ripped through like a wet paper bag, they will have to increase the difficulty to bring the challenge level of the encounter in line with the plan. This has very real consequences.

 

Once the difficulty is raised, to compensate for the ease with which the addon players are defeating encounters, all the players who do not use addons will find that the encounter has become much harder to defeat. Perhaps even impossible.

 

This creates a split in the player community amongst almost the addon users who are able to reap the rewards and the players who are playing the game as the developers intended, who find themselves increasingly unable to acquire the high end rewards. The problem is compounded when those who use the addons use their disproportionate level of gear to further their ability to take on higher level encounters. And naturaly the developers raise the difficulty again to try to maintain the balance of the game. making it even harder for the non addon players to experience the high end content of the game.

 

And that leads to another very real consequence. Players who do not cheat (yes I said cheat) getting frustrated with the difficulty of the game and canceling their subscription. This reduces the funding the developers need to create more content. I believe the original poster did mention how much he valued new content.

 

Dress it up in whatever language you want. Use of third party addons is cheating. If you cant enjoy the game without access to threat meters and DPS calculators then by all means rally the player community to demand they be added to the game. The Devs do pay attention to the community and if there is enough demand for something they will supply it. After all, the alternative is players quitting the game. And if enough players quit, people start getting laid off because there is not enough revenue to pay the salaries of the people who are bringing you all this fun.

 

/rant mode off

[Krazeh]

Use of third party addons is cheating.

 

No it's not. Third party addons do not provide you with anything extra or alter the gameplay mechanics, all they do is provide a different way to get access to the information the game is already providing to you.

[burningxinear]

I will begin as the original poster did by showing off how long my beard is. My first MMO was Everquest which I started playing in 1999 before the first expansion (Ruins of Kunark) came out.

 

I personally have a major objection to 3rd party addons of any kind. and not because of the reasons you stated.

 

3rd party addons give an advantage to those who use them. those who do not use them don't get the advantage. So the addon users will out perform the non addon players.

 

Addon users will more easily defeat difficult encounters. The developers have a behind the scenes plan for how tough the encounter should be. If they find that their content is being ripped through like a wet paper bag, they will have to increase the difficulty to bring the challenge level of the encounter in line with the plan. This has very real consequences.

 

Once the difficulty is raised, to compensate for the ease with which the addon players are defeating encounters, all the players who do not use addons will find that the encounter has become much harder to defeat. Perhaps even impossible.

 

This creates a split in the player community amongst almost the addon users who are able to reap the rewards and the players who are playing the game as the developers intended, who find themselves increasingly unable to acquire the high end rewards. The problem is compounded when those who use the addons use their disproportionate level of gear to further their ability to take on higher level encounters. And naturaly the developers raise the difficulty again to try to maintain the balance of the game. making it even harder for the non addon players to experience the high end content of the game.

 

And that leads to another very real consequence. Players who do not cheat (yes I said cheat) getting frustrated with the difficulty of the game and canceling their subscription. This reduces the funding the developers need to create more content. I believe the original poster did mention how much he valued new content.

 

Dress it up in whatever language you want. Use of third party addons is cheating. If you cant enjoy the game without access to threat meters and DPS calculators then by all means rally the player community to demand they be added to the game. The Devs do pay attention to the community and if there is enough demand for something they will supply it. After all, the alternative is players quitting the game. And if enough players quit, people start getting laid off because there is not enough revenue to pay the salaries of the people who are bringing you all this fun.

 

/rant mode off

 

I too started with EverQuest, prior to Kunark's release. I still fail to realize how using a Damage Meter conveys an unfair advantage. They merely allow a player to play their character to its fullest potential. Otherwise, I have no idea if my damage is worse than John-Doe-Faceroller. It allows for people to get carried by other players, and personally, I don't want to play with lazy people who aren't there to play as best they can. Call me elitist, but if i'm going to do all I can to help the group defeat an encounter, i'd like everyone else to do the same. And i'd like some real data to provide transparency and accountability.

 

Even if you don't want to use these addons, if you've done some research and are playing the character properly, your experience shouldn't change at all.

 

Addons like this allow for TheoryCrafting which increases the average skill of most players in the games, whether they do the math themselves or read it on a forum and get an idea of how they should be playing from there. It's beneficial to the entire community. Not just players who use the addons.

[Bukketman]

I would love to see some UI mods so that I don't have 2 sets of 8 abilities that look almost identical but do completely different things (Jedi Knight) and so that I can add/subtract action bars and put them where I need them.

 

Combat Logs in and of themselves aren't going to do any harm imo. Some people use them, and some people completely ignore them 99% of the time. Put them in so people who want can use them.

 

Macros go both ways as the OP and others have pointed out. Social ones are harmless but unless there's a way to prevent the "6 button rotation mapped as 1" they get real annoying real fast. I used to use some pretty simple healing macros to just assign a party member to a button-push heal before I started using TONS of addons.

 

Add-ons made healing raid groups and other end-game challenges possible for casual gamers like myself. Instead of scrambling for the right targets while I was trying to spam-heal people back to life, I could plainly see and easily right/left/center/other mouse click exactly who I wanted when I wanted. But I still hold reservations about letting slip the add-ons of war, because of what this poster said:

Here is my fundamental disagreement, however. More tightly tuned Boss encounters, with ever increasing numbers of phases and one-shot mechanics is not fun. At all. It became tedious.

 

Compare the fight in WoW that is my all time favorite. Shade of Aran. Total Mechanics to look out for: 6. He randomly bolts people with elemental spells, randomly does an aoe counterspell, casts blizzard that you must avoid, pulls people to the center who then must move out again, casts flame wreath during which no one should move, and summoned adds for his last phase. Fun fun fun fight. Six mechanics.

 

Compare that to WoW's evolution as raiders came to depend more and more on addons...every stage just heaped on more mechanics, more things to remember, more tedium. Not necessarily new, interesting mechanics, but rather more adds, more different damage spells, more aoes...etc.