A Shield Vanguard's Primer (Tanking Guide)

[Evenflow]

I know this has probably been asked in a thousand other places but in terms of Shield Chance/Absorb vs. Defense which one should I be focusing on? My talents are pointing towards shielding since I gain 1 ammo every time I shield an attack (Cannot occur for another 6 seconds afterwards) and the cooldown on Stock Strike has a 50% chance to reset upon shielding (Cannot occur for another 4.5 seconds afterwards) but quite a few people in my guild are saying to go for defense instead.

 

That's my thinking too but at this point there is little to no stats to back that up. Until somebody gets to that point it's just conjecture.

Edited January 10, 2012 by Evenflow

[DeputyDan]

Any suggestions for crew skills for tanking? I was debating Biochem for the reusable Medpak, and someone said that armstech is useless because you cant make orange weapons, but what about armortech?

 

I definitely agree with anoiktos about Biochem, as late-game stims are fantastic. I went armormech, and despite draining me of almost all of my credits, I consistently wore nothing but crafted armor while leveling. There aren't a lot of high-end schematics for crafted armor and they cannot compare with other end-game armors, but will definitely help you tank until you get there.

 

Although if I lost my main right now, I'd probably do cybertech instead. Reverse engineering mods seems a lot more hassle-free than trying to get just the right bonuses to your armor schematics.

 

Great guide, anoiktos, I hope someone does the math on sheild chance vs. defense, because that could make or break my purple armor sales on the market.

[blueforced]

Hello, and great guide by the way. One extra CC that I thought you should know/add to your list is the Shadow Consular mind maze, which is also a 60 second (done from stealth, and out of combat, and only on non-droids).

 

Reading this guide has been educational, I've played a few MMO's in "the day" but I've never played as a tank. I'll be sure to put your advice to good use.

 

Cheers

Edited January 9, 2012 by blueforced

[anoiktos]

Thanks for the input, blueforced! I've added Mind Maze to the list of crowd control in the guide. Very nice catch.

[TheDarthmaster]

That's my thinking too but at this point there is little to no stats to back that up. Until somebody gets to that point it's just conjecture.

 

So far from what I can tell shield absorption and shield chance is the greatest tank skills for us (vanguards). I say this just from my own personal experience of flashpoints, when I encounter enemies lower level than me my defense stat plays a much larger role. I dodge everything instead of shielding. But that could be just because of the level difference. When I encounter a enemy equal or higher to my level the shield tends to proc a lot more in fact almost 3rd hit it seems. So not sure if this information is helpful to the debate or just common sense, I feel like it could be a little bit of both.

 

To Nickter

 

Currently I'm a amormech and absolutely loving it. I have pretty much crafted my way to great tanking gear. I've noticed that one of the downsides to vanguard is keeping up with gear. If my gear isn't within 4 to 5 levels of my current level my damage and survivability drastically drops. I'm not to sure what Deputydan is referring to about achieving the right bonuses in armormech. I could be wrong for the 380+ amormeching, but so far I just reverse engineer the defense bonus greens and usually get shield absorption out of it and some power bonus. Another plus at least on my server is the lack of 300+ armormechs so all the high level recipes are very cheap and I'm buying up a storm! And yes you can craft orange pieces in high level armormech.

[DeputyDan]

I could be wrong for the 380+ amormeching, but so far I just reverse engineer the defense bonus greens and usually get shield absorption out of it and some power bonus. Another plus at least on my server is the lack of 300+ armormechs so all the high level recipes are very cheap and I'm buying up a storm! And yes you can craft orange pieces in high level armormech.

 

That's all I meant about the right bonuses. I only recently got to lvl 49 and I've used maybe 200 each of durasteel, zal alloy, and flux to get redoubt blues of each piece, as opposed to overkill or crit, not even counting trying to get the shielding purples (I tend to get anti-armor or general's more often). My experience with cybertech is that when you reverse engineer a mod/armor you get the same relative stats but higher, which is what I was talking about being easier. In any case, crafted armor can be amazing for several levels if you get a purple with an augment slot.

 

I do have a tanking question for PvP though. I'm new to MMO's but I understand guard and taunts, and that the tank's role is keeping the group alive via damage reduction and mitigation. With PvP, are you trying to draw aggro with any particular move set, or just by being scary-looking?

[Gertbeefrobe]

50 Shieldguard here. I recently switched from a defense rating gear build to something more shield and absorb oriented and noticed a BIG difference in how much damage I was taking as well as how much I could put out. For now I would recommend anyone that plans on PvE tanking to focus more on shield and absorb. The damage you take will be steadier but much smaller and your threat management should be much easier due to more energy procs and stockstrike cooldown resets. Edited January 9, 2012 by Gertbeefrobe

[Cheeseblaster]

50 Shieldguard here. I recently switched from a defense rating gear build to something more shield and absorb oriented and noticed a BIG difference in how much damage I was taking as well as how much I could put out. For now I would recommend anyone that plans on PvE tanking to focus more on shield and absorb. The damage you take will be steadier but much smaller and your threat management should be much easier due to more energy procs and stockstrike cooldown resets.

 

Do you have any skill points in assualt or tactics?

[anoiktos]

DeputyDan,

I do have a tanking question for PvP though. I'm new to MMO's but I understand guard and taunts, and that the tank's role is keeping the group alive via damage reduction and mitigation. With PvP, are you trying to draw aggro with any particular move set, or just by being scary-looking?

I don't PVP extensively (or, really, at all), so I encourage someone to come by and correct me here, but I believe the theory is that you protect one person using Guard (which redirects 50% of player damage to you), harass enemies using various slows, stuns, interrupts, and by generally being annoying (harpoon shot the healer into your group), and carry objectives by being hard to kill. (Like the huttball.)

Edited January 9, 2012 by anoiktos

[Cheeseblaster]

DO teh skill trees have pre-requisites? For example, can i pour all my points into Shield Spec as a tank but still be able to put a point in Assault Plastique when I get to the proper level?

[TheCosmicMuffet]

DO teh skill trees have pre-requisites? For example, can i pour all my points into Shield Spec as a tank but still be able to put a point in Assault Plastique when I get to the proper level?

 

You unlock tiers in a spec by investing in it. So you can't jump sideways from one to another at a high level--you have to have put in a bunch of points into that spec to climb it. You don't have to stay in one, but you won't be able to climb one and then grab the top talents of the other two.

[KLGChaos]

This is basically the same build I'm going for. Was going to go with a Gut Spec, but decided against it. Figure I'd take Energy Blast and instead grab Soldier's Endurance from the Assault Specialist tree as well as popping 7 points into Tactics. Will probably skip Neural Overload in favor of an extra 3% Aim. Currently only level 31.

 

Definitely a good post, though, and something we need on the forum, especially for those who may be new to tanking or MMOs. I currently use Sticky Grenade in my rotation quite a bit, but I can definitely see it's use in curbing weaker healers.

 

The thing is, I don't really have a "rotation" as I feel the Vanguard is more of a priority based character, relying more on the situation and what's lit up than a set cycle of skills.

 

My opening "rotation" for single target currently is Storm > Ion Pulse > Stockstrike > HIB > HS (no Energy Blast yet) and then from then on, it depends on if Static Shield procs or not. If it does, Stockstrike is my first priority. It's our best single target damage attack which means, our best aggro tool. HIB is my second priority. The only exception is if Static Field falls off and then I reapply.

 

Multi-target, I open with Mortar (or sticky if it's on cooldown) and Storm in. Depending on the amount of mobs and their distance from me, I'll use Ion Pulse or Explosive Surge (using Harpoon if I need to) followed by a Pulse Cannon and throw in another Sticky, depending on if something close by has been CC'ed. Then, I use Stockstrike/HIB on the most powerful enemy and tab target through as needed, using my hammer shots and following the above priority rotation, just substituting in a Pulse cannon when it's up. Seems to have worked pretty well so far.

 

In the end, it really is about being aware of the situation-- not just positioning, mob or party status-- it's also being aware of what abilities work best in each situation.

[Nemesial]

I do have a tanking question for PvP though. I'm new to MMO's but I understand guard and taunts, and that the tank's role is keeping the group alive via damage reduction and mitigation. With PvP, are you trying to draw aggro with any particular move set, or just by being scary-looking?

 

My experience so far in PvP is that you make yourself more of a nuisance than really "tank" anything - enemy players don't seem to pay enough attention to being Taunted for you to keep them on you. The best thing about Guard is you can change it on the fly to whoever needs it the most, so you can Guard a melee DPSer or fellow mid-ranger and help to keep them alive whilst they go about their business, or hang back with a healer and ensure they don't get jumped - another advantage of being able to do at least some damage from range.

 

Really I seem to go about my business with damage moves as I would normally, with perhaps a bit more focus on AoE where applicable. When all else fails, you should be able to take on a more "tanking" role by charging in and making yourself a really obvious target. Aside from that, Harpoon is a nifty little tool to grab enemy DPSers off of allies, or to pull enemy healers into your group. With that, Cryo Grenade and Riot Strike you can really lock down a target whilst your team help hammer them.

 

EDIT:

 

My opening "rotation" for single target currently is Storm > Ion Pulse > Stockstrike > HIB > HS (no Energy Blast yet) and then from then on, it depends on if Static Shield procs or not. If it does, Stockstrike is my first priority. It's our best single target damage attack which means, our best aggro tool. HIB is my second priority. The only exception is if Static Field falls off and then I reapply.

 

I think normally you'd want to shift Ion Pulse down, so it'd be Storm > SS > HIB > IP > HS. Ion Pulse is really our "regular" attack to fill in when SS and HIB are on CD, unless you need to conserve ammo with HS of course.

Edited January 10, 2012 by Nemesial

[Jaberg]

Yes, for kinetic/energy attacks.

 

 

 

Any Accuracy over 100% adds to armor penetration, not against defense. Defense is defense.

 

 

 

 

Yes.

 

 

 

Yes.

 

Basically, at end-game PvE, you want defense > shield chance >= shield absorb. You will want to ensure you have 100% accuracy so you can keep your threat up (i.e. by not missing).

 

The fact that you should go for defense as a vangaurd is wrong. As posted in this post shields scales WAY better. With WoW eyes we're the paladins / warriors of SWTOR. We take steady damage. I assume that other tanking classes prioritize defence over shields, but taking a quick look at the numbers i see shields being way better

[Bullwrath]

Thank you for making this guide. My wife and I are new to the game, and she is a vanguard tank. This will be invaluable to her.

[Gertbeefrobe]

Do you have any skill points in assualt or tactics?

 

Yes. http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#801GkGrborogZMsbZb.1 is my current spec but is obviously a work in progress. Currently sitting @ 50% shield chance with nearly 40% absorb but I am having trouble holding threat vs similarly geared competent dps even with guard set on them.

[KLGChaos]

I think normally you'd want to shift Ion Pulse down, so it'd be Storm > SS > HIB > IP > HS. Ion Pulse is really our "regular" attack to fill in when SS and HIB are on CD, unless you need to conserve ammo with HS of course.

 

Only reason I throw Ion Pulse in early is for Static Field, though a 4% damage debuff probably doesn't need to be thrown up right away and I'm probably better off using my heavy hitters first for threat (and getting them to finish their cooldown sooner in the rotation).

Edited January 10, 2012 by KLGChaos

[gabusan]

Is Supercharged ion cell (25% more damage from Ion Cell and 3 more seconds of shock effect) really be better than 3% more of aim stat?

 

Ion Cell is fixed damage, while "aim" increases as you level up. Just how much compares that 3% of aim against the fixed damage of Ion Cell once you hit 50?

 

I suspect the real value of Supercharged ion cell is keep target slowed down for 3 more seconds, which seems nice for PVP and maybe have a larger window of opportunity to shoot high impact shot. Damage from Ion Cell is too low to take it into consideration?

[Gertbeefrobe]

Is Supercharged ion cell (25% more damage from Ion Cell and 3 more seconds of shock effect) really be better than 3% more of aim stat?

 

Ion Cell is fixed damage, while "aim" increases as you level up. Just how much compares that 3% of aim against the fixed damage of Ion Cell once you hit 50?

 

I suspect the real value of Supercharged ion cell is keep target slowed down for 3 more seconds, which seems nice for PVP and maybe have a larger window of opportunity to shoot high impact shot. Damage from Ion Cell is too low to take it into consideration?

 

The slow effect does not increase. It's capped @ 2 seconds. I went with more Ion cell damage because it flat out helped my threat. I feel sort of ridiculous with Ion Cell talented knowing what I do about it but it seems necessary at this point.

Edited January 10, 2012 by Gertbeefrobe

[gabusan]

2 seconds after the last damage Ion does. So if shock has 3 more seconds of doing damage, that is 3 seconds more of someone pinned down with 50% movement?

[ExileOOI]

DeputyDan,

 

I don't PVP extensively (or, really, at all), so I encourage someone to come by and correct me here, but I believe the theory is that you protect one person using Guard (which redirects 50% of player damage to you), harass enemies using various slows, stuns, interrupts, and by generally being annoying (harpoon shot the healer into your group), and carry objectives by being hard to kill. (Like the huttball.)

 

I play allot of PVP with the same group of guildies so we have become quite familiar with what roles we play. Playing a Tank and guarding/sticking with my "dedicated healer" is absolutely awesome for defending objectives on Alderaan or voidstar for example. Generally you can hold off the attackers for a long time but if you get zerged by more then 4-6 at a time you have trouble. Especially if they focus on your healer and pull out the stuns.

 

Having most of my skill points in Shield Specialist causes problems in Huttball on the other hand. Generally if i get passed the ball i will try and get rid of it as soon a possible because getting across the fire and walkways with only one skill to break a CC is a nightmare. Most often i find myself CC'd on the fire/slowed to a crawl and then knocked off in to the pit. One thing that always makes me chuckle tho is Harpooning an unsuspecting enemy in to the fire or acid. That never gets old. Even on Alderaan. If the enemy team has yours stuck at the spawn, take a couple of steps back from the edge and Harpoon thier healer up. Instakill FTW.

 

So there are pro's and cons.

 

If you have a group to PVP with being a tank is really good. At the end of the day if you can keep your healer alive you can keep your team alive. If i was PVP'ing solo on the other hand id consider putting more points in to other skill trees for DOT's and counter CC's like "Hold the Line".

[Chariton]

I was also wondering about defence vs. shield. This has cleared the issue for me. And what to craft for my toon.

[Arsynic]

Thanks for this. I'm only lvl 15 right now with my Vanguard so I've got a long way to go before this becomes useful to me. But I'm bookmarking this for sure.

 

Having spent most of my MMO time as a healer I'm a bit nervous but excited about making the switch into tanking. Anyone come across any good threads/blog posts that cover how to level as a tank? Not the solo/leveling part, but flashpoints. It's a bit daunting contemplating a flashpoint knowing that I won't have most of my important tanking talents for some time.

I feel you. I'm a scrapper/dps by nature and tanking (like healing) seems to be too much responsibility and I tend to get scatterbrained when situations get stressful.

[Darguth]

Yes. http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#801GkGrborogZMsbZb.1 is my current spec but is obviously a work in progress. Currently sitting @ 50% shield chance with nearly 40% absorb but I am having trouble holding threat vs similarly geared competent dps even with guard set on them.

 

I'm surprised you passed over BOTH Smoke Grenade AND Energy Blast for a piddly +3% to HIB and +8% to Ion Cell.

 

Smoke Grenade is an awesomely powerful defensive CD.

 

Also, if you're having trouble with threat, Energy Blast will do a lot more for you than those two talents I pointed out would. HIB has a 15s CD, +3% is pretty meaningless over the course of a fight. That's really a burst DPS talent for PVP methinks, or for Assault to spec over into since they can reset HIB's CD.

 

Energy Blast is a higher-DPS 'weave' ability than Hammer Shot *PLUS* the Ammo Regen allows you to use more of your higher threat/damage abilities.

 

Really, I think it's a must. It can easily let you string together 5+ non-Hammer Shot abilities at the start of a single-target boss fight. That should certainly help with threat issues.

[gabusan]

Anyone knows what does more damage in the long run? Supercharged Ion Cell or +3% aim? Is there anyway to test it?