Sawbones is not fun to level

[dmanlong]

I leveled a combat medic and seer in beta and decided to make sawbones my main because I really like the synergy of the heals and how well the talents worked with each other.

 

Leveling feels like a chore and while I am really enjoying the story, I dislike the entire process.

 

I am leveling as a full sawbones and I find it so slow and tedious to deal with each pack of mobs.

 

Standard pack of 5 mobs with 1 or 2 harder mobs in the pack:

 

Cloak then sneak up behind hard mob and CC. Next CC pull if another mob is a Robot. Let Corso grab aggro, while I throw in a Frag ( if safe) otherwise I vital shot all non-cc Mobs and then kill off mobs by who corso has aggro with. I then attack harder CC mobs while Corso tanks them. I open with a few stronger abilities usually leaving the harder mob at half health. I can then DPS the mob or heal corso - both take about the same amount of time for the mob to die.

 

Repeat on the next 1000 packs of mobs.

 

Does anyone else find this entire process to be boring? I am sitting at level 44 and it is not fun.

Edited January 5, 2012 by dmanlong

[Azaranth]

It gets way more fun as you level up.

 

I'm 100% sawbones, but clearing trash is quick and easy. I don't waste time with tranq unless there's a strong mob or roamer nearby.

 

1. Open with Shoot First -> Pistol Whip.

2. Throw a Grenade (this probably kills your first target)

3. Blaster Volley -> Grenade -> Blaster Volley.

 

Pack cleared!

 

Seriously, it'll get more fun. Once you get your 3rd and 4th companions, they both have some great AE attacks and do respectable damage. That's right about the time you get Shoot First and start one-shotting some of the more feeble trash on a crit.

[Xytron]

Vital shot spam could be hurting you. What I like to do is CC, then pull mobs around some form of LOS (or just out of range of the CCd mob) and that allows me to use my grenade and Corso's AoE as well at much more efficiency than vital shot.

[dmanlong]

Vital shot spam could be hurting you. What I like to do is CC, then pull mobs around some form of LOS (or just out of range of the CCd mob) and that allows me to use my grenade and Corso's AoE as well at much more efficiency than vital shot.

 

How do you do that considering Corso harpoon's the first non-CC mob to where ever he is standing. Turning off Harpoon is not an option because he turns it back on.

[Azaranth]

How do you do that considering Corso harpoon's the first non-CC mob to where ever he is standing. Turning off Harpoon is not an option because he turns it back on.

 

He only turns it back on when you mount / take an elevator / take a taxi / or quick travel. It's totally a pain in the neck, but it IS possible to just turn it off if you're spending a long time in a single zone, like Taris or Coruscant.

[strattjw]

I use either Spar or Risha and have no trouble questing as full Sawbones. About to tick 50 (40% left) and haven't found a quest I couldn't complete. On champion level mobs I have to spend most of my time interrupting and healing my companion but it isn't very difficult just takes a bit longer. On weak and strong mobs it goes really fast.

[GeneralPyrrhus]

If I'm using Corso, I start off with sabo charge and thermal detonator. By that point he's probably pulled someone into our melee range so I jump out of cover and proceed with the dirty kicks/pistol whips/back blasts/etc.

 

If I'm using Bowdar, I might send him in first and sit back with charged blasts and grenades, or I might get in close, as the mood strikes me.

 

I rarely use CC (level 31 currently).

 

Vital shot is a waste against anything that isn't at least elite. You should be able to kill a normal mob well before the DoT completes, meaning that the GCD and the energy spent on making the shot was at least partially wasted.

 

Azaranth alludes to this in his 1st post above, but one thing to remember is that the scoundrel is pretty much a melee class with a handful of ranged abilities. It seems like you want to sit back and shoot, which you certainly can do, but we're better off fighting up close.

 

Anyway, I'm levelling as 100% sawbones right now and haven't been having issues killing stuff in varied ways. And if I do get bored with killing something, I turn on stealth and sneak past.

Edited January 5, 2012 by GeneralPyrrhus

[Azaranth]

I use either Spar or Risha and have no trouble questing as full Sawbones. About to tick 50 (40% left) and haven't found a quest I couldn't complete. On champion level mobs I have to spend most of my time interrupting and healing my companion but it isn't very difficult just takes a bit longer. On weak and strong mobs it goes really fast.

 

From the sound of his post, he's stuck in that 10-25 range, which I agree is the least fun part of the Scoundrel class. You only have stupid Corso as your companion, and you haven't gotten a lot of the real hard hitting smuggler powers (Shoot First, Cheap Shot, Flyby).

 

My advice is to hang in there. Bail on Taris early (it's a boring planet anyway), and plow through the class quest section of Nar Shadaar to get a replacement companion for Corso. Things will get more interesting after that.

Edited January 5, 2012 by Azaranth

[strattjw]

From the sound of his post, he's stuck in that 10-25 range, which I agree is the least fun part of the Scoundrel class. You only have stupid Corso as your companion, and you haven't gotten a lot of the real hard hitting smuggler powers (Shoot First, Cheap Shot, Flyby).

 

My advice is to hang in there. Bail on Taris early (it's a boring planet anyway), and plow through the class quest section of Nar Shadaar to get a replacement companion for Corso. Things will get more interesting after that.

 

That is true. Gameplay was a bit of a chore until you finish chapter one and get Risha. She is vastly superior as a companion to both Corso and Bowdar. I actually kept using Corso all the way until I got Risha. Bowdar just dies so fast.

[dmanlong]

From the sound of his post, he's stuck in that 10-25 range, which I agree is the least fun part of the Scoundrel class. You only have stupid Corso as your companion, and you haven't gotten a lot of the real hard hitting smuggler powers (Shoot First, Cheap Shot, Flyby).

 

My advice is to hang in there. Bail on Taris early (it's a boring planet anyway), and plow through the class quest section of Nar Shadaar to get a replacement companion for Corso. Things will get more interesting after that.

 

 

In my OP I stated that I am level 44. It is not an issue of not being able to kill the mobs. It is an issue of it being a repetitive time consuming process that makes it Un-enjoyable.

 

And of course I am using all those abilities that people have posted about like shoot first

, back-blast, dirty kick and everything else while keeping up pugnacity. It feels slow. It might just be that as a ranged healer, moving in for close quarter combat seems to be flawed.

Edited January 5, 2012 by dmanlong

[strattjw]

In my OP I stated that I am level 44. It is not an issue of not being able to kill the mobs. It is an issue of it being a repetitive time consuming process that makes it Un-enjoyable.

 

And of course I am using all those abilities that people have posted about like shoot first

, back-blast, dirty kick and everything else while keeping up pugnacity. It feels slow. It might just be that as a ranged healer, moving in for close quarter combat seems to be flawed.

 

Well I don't think it is fair to expect overall damage output to be the same as what you would get with a full DPS spec character. You trade DPS to get greater survivability with better healing.

 

Are you keeping the companion you are using is the most up to date gear? Since most of your DPS comes from you companion this helps kill stuff faster.

[dmanlong]

Well I don't think it is fair to expect overall damage output to be the same as what you would get with a full DPS spec character. You trade DPS to get greater survivability with better healing.

 

Are you keeping the companion you are using is the most up to date gear? Since most of your DPS comes from you companion this helps kill stuff faster.

 

Yes, both my and my companions gear is fully upgraded. I also run a bit of FP so my gear is superior to most of the quest gear. I also use the planet commendations to mod out my orange gear.

 

I understand that I will be a bit slower then a pure dps but with a tank companion and me healing it should equal itself out. As an example: Ask a JK Guardian after he gets Doc how much down time there is. A Guardian with a healing companion can just about chain pull.

[Azaranth]

In my OP I stated that I am level 44. It is not an issue of not being able to kill the mobs. It is an issue of it being a repetitive time consuming process that makes it Un-enjoyable.

 

And of course I am using all those abilities that people have posted about like shoot first

, back-blast, dirty kick and everything else while keeping up pugnacity. It feels slow. It might just be that as a ranged healer, moving in for close quarter combat seems to be flawed.

 

Then I don't understand why you're using Corso, when you're clearly annoyed by the Harpoon bug, and you have better companions anyway.

 

I also don't understand why you don't simply respec for grinding then. Respec for free, grind out the last 6 levels, and the respec back for a few pennies.

 

As far as I can tell, you're mad that a pure healer spec doesn't put out as much AoE damage as some other classes? That's absurd.

[Azaranth]

I understand that I will be a bit slower then a pure dps but with a tank companion and me healing it should equal itself out. As an example: Ask a JK Guardian after he gets Doc how much down time there is. A Guardian with a healing companion can just about chain pull.

 

A Jedi Guardian using Doc, or a Trooper Vanguard using Elara Doran will both clear slower than you will using Risha.

 

If you're really as equipped as you say, then I think you're just suffering from grass-is-greener syndrome. It might feel like that trooper or jedi is clearing faster than you, but they're not.

Edited January 5, 2012 by Azaranth

[dmanlong]

Then I don't understand why you're using Corso, when you're clearly annoyed by the Harpoon bug, and you have better companions anyway.

 

I also don't understand why you don't simply respec for grinding then. Respec for free, grind out the last 6 levels, and the respec back for a few pennies.

 

As far as I can tell, you're mad that a pure healer spec doesn't put out as much AoE damage as some other classes? That's absurd.

 

I am not mad about anything, I am just bringing up an opinion in an open forum.

 

I am leveling as a pure healer because the option exist to play with a tanking companion. The time it takes to clear a pack of mobs and then heal up after the kill should be comparable because I am utilizing the roles that counter-balance each other - or so I thought.

 

A DPS playing with a DPS companion should kill mobs extremely fast but also take much more damage than a tank and healer. Why would I use a non-tank and play as heals when I could just go double dps if a tank companion give me no benefit?

 

The only reason I bring this up is because I watched a guardian with a healer Companion go into a cave and clear out all the mobs after I had just gone in there previously. It was a very noticeable difference. There was almost no downtime.

 

Also, if I re-specced out of heals then who would heal all the heroic 4 quests and FP early on? There should be incentives to level as a support role not barriers.

Edited January 5, 2012 by dmanlong

[Azaranth]

The only reason I bring this up is because I watched a guardian with a healer Companion go into a cave and clear out all the mobs after I had just gone in there previously. It was a very noticeable difference. There was almost no downtime.

 

The most likely answer is that the Guardian was spec'd for DPS, not for tanking. Other possible explanations are that they're better equipped than you, or a better player than you. Who knows.

 

Tanks aren't needed for non-flashpoint trash. Take a DPS companion with you, you'll find that you clear things twice as fast with no downtime. Problem solved.

[krispera]

Just play a DPS. When I arrived on Hoth, I had difficulties with Sawbones (was Sawbones since 10) then changed to Dirty Fighting and kept it.

 

Top damage, kill and heal (2 points on SawBones for easy Upper Hand) in PvP.

Clear mobs with DoT Bomb and the normal Bomb, spamming Vital shot. Done.

 

Sawbones is too companion dependant. You will mostly just watch and care about HP bars. They will be your bestfriends.

 

Companions :

DPS ? Risha, but then monsters come for you.

Tanker ? Corso, but takes a little longer to kill. Just a little.

Both ? Akiva, but then monsters come for you.

 

So I take Corso, because he removes the aggro from me.

[Slothrop]

From the OP, it seems to equate killing/grinding with leveling. I've had good success doing minimal killing whiles stealthing objectives to either kill the boss or grab the clicky. I can zip through quests really fast. There are tons and tons of quests to do, and I have found leveling to be really easy and insanely fun.

 

This is doubley so for my 31 point sawbones because I can solo through harder stuff that others might have to group up for (just got through the Voss Trial chambers -non heroic one- last night while killed off strongs and elites left and right).

 

Anyway, I'm not sure if you're unhappy with doing the same combat sequence over and over (which will happen with any class) or that you don't think you're killing fast enough (to which I'd say, find a way to get xp that doesn't involve a pure reliance on killing speed).

[dmanlong]

From the OP, it seems to equate killing/grinding with leveling. I've had good success doing minimal killing whiles stealthing objectives to either kill the boss or grab the clicky. I can zip through quests really fast. There are tons and tons of quests to do, and I have found leveling to be really easy and insanely fun.

 

This is doubley so for my 31 point sawbones because I can solo through harder stuff that others might have to group up for (just got through the Voss Trial chambers -non heroic one- last night while killed off strongs and elites left and right).

 

Anyway, I'm not sure if you're unhappy with doing the same combat sequence over and over (which will happen with any class) or that you don't think you're killing fast enough (to which I'd say, find a way to get xp that doesn't involve a pure reliance on killing speed).

 

I tried this strategy for a bit and then found that I was completing areas while hardly not gaining an XP or leveling. It seems much of the xp comes from completing bonuses which are tied to killing x amount of mobs. I found myself on planets 3 levels early because of this and had to go back to killing all the mobs.

Edited January 5, 2012 by dmanlong

[Kulzin]

So what would make it more fun, specifically?

 

Unless I didn't understand the crux of the original complaint, doesn't every class have a basic set of attack patterns for non-elite trash that's optimal?

 

I get the sense that you spent a decent amount of time explaining something that can basically be boiled down to "Meh, I just don't really like the class."

 

To which I guess I would respond with, "Ok...have you tried something else?"

 

Just my two credits, but the smuggler seemed to have the biggest bag of tricks for playing around with attack patterns compared to other classes.

 

I wasn't overly fond of being a sage because the rinse/repeat of their attacks got old fast. Hence, I'm not playing one.

Edited January 5, 2012 by Kulzin

[strattjw]

I tried this strategy for a bit and then found that I was completing areas while hardly not gaining an XP or leveling. It seems much of the xp comes from completing bonuses which are tied to killing x amount of mobs. I found myself on planets 3 levels early because of this and had to go back to killing all the mobs.

 

I have a hard time believing that you are doing quests and doing flash points and you are going so fast that you can't get enough XP. I am doing just the world quests and class quests, space combat dailies, and flashpoints and I'm already at 49 and just starting Corellia. I'll hit 50 well before I get more then a few steps into my class quest on Corellia I'm sure. I also don't know why you would go with Corso when you have Risha or Spar available. You can not run with a low damage output tanking companion as a healer and complain you don't do enough dps. Try fully outfitting Risha and stuff will die much faster.

 

Edit.... also I stealth past anything I don't need to kill for a quest objective.

Edited January 5, 2012 by strattjw

[perato]

A Jedi Guardian using Doc, or a Trooper Vanguard using Elara Doran will both clear slower than you will using Risha.

 

...

 

umm, no.

[Stigas]

You're full heal spec while leveling. What did you expect?

 

I'm also full Sawbones, but I enjoy it. Different areas call for different companions, so I won't state a specific one. There are strategies/tips I can offer:

 

Risha: Stand near her. When you pull aggro, mobs she's attacking and mobs attacking you will all be clumped and they'll die faster and/or move to her quicker. This reduces your healing spread.

 

Corso: Keybind "Attack" (Companion Quickslot 1) to Mousewheel Scroll Up. Keybind "Passive" to Mousewheel Scroll Down. Once again, stand next to him and turn on his AOE grenade.

 

 

I watched a few livestreams/videos of Sawbones and Combat Medics leveling and the one thing I noticed is that, if it looked slow, it was because they weren't really trying. You have tons of healing you can do and a few utility abilities. Use them. Push yourself and it'll be more fun.

 

If you really can't enjoy it, spec something else until 50.

[Azaranth]

umm, no.

 

Assuming they're tank spec'd, yes.

 

My roommate plays a tank spec Vangaurd. We decided to race through the instanced part of the droid factory quests on Balmorra yesterday, just to see who could complete it faster. I won by about 5 minutes. (No skipping packs with stealth, or dialog, etc).

 

It's not like this should be a surprise. A Tank + Healer has less total damage output than a DPS + Healer (especially when a Sawbones healer really spends most of the time dpsing and letting SRMP do the healing).

Edited January 5, 2012 by Azaranth

[Leilei]

My guardian kills in an ok speed. But I think its cuz I dressed kira in the elegant dress and have her stacked with willpower. She has better stats than my guardian even. I also use presence stims AND the presence cantina food. Kira just raeps ppl that way.