The ANTI LFD and LFR tool thread!

[blubomber]

The expanions and WoW's sub numbers and what features were in those expansions are all facts.

 

Do you actually want to argue with the fact that wow saw its biggest increase in subs durin BC?

 

Do you actually want to argue that WoW saw its biggest decrease in subs during wotlk?

 

Those 2 things are facts, if you want to argue with my conclusions, fine. but you make yourself look foolish if are you are trying to argue with those 2 facts.

 

For thelast time no one is arguing that wow did not see more new subs during BC. No one. i said wrath had the most players, which is true.

 

you keep bringing up null points that we BOTH have conceded to be true, because they dont bring any weight to your argument

[Moricthian]

The expanions and WoW's sub numbers and what features were in those expansions are all facts.

 

Do you actually want to argue with the fact that wow saw its biggest increase in subs durin BC?

 

Do you actually want to argue that WoW saw its biggest decrease in subs during wotlk?

 

Those 2 things are facts, if you want to argue with my conclusions, fine. but you make yourself look foolish if are you are trying to argue with those 2 facts.

 

 

Let's try this again.

 

This is your argument

 

1. WOW implemented a LFG tool

2. Some time after that, it started losing subs.

3. ????????????

4. LFG tool is a bad idea.

 

Just spouting premise one and two over and over again does not logiaclly lead to # 4 or the conclusion. You need to show that there is a casual relationship between premises 1 and 2 with a third premise. Holding to conclusion 4. without a 3rd premise linking 1 and 2 together is irrational.

[Nuzt]

Why do people feel the need to make these threads, if they keep it to single server Q's then whats the problem ? You don't like it then don't use it, its really that simple.

 

I agree that it shouldn't be spread between mutiple servers but it really no diff then sitting in general and doing LFG.

[Khoranth]

If you where to actually think about what you post you wouldn't have to second guess my posts.

 

Ever stop to think that maybe the ones doing the kicking are actually the ones being jerks? It works both ways you know. Leaving the community to police themselve only results in abuse of power and incites bullies to rise to the surface. I don't need that in this game.

 

Also, since you've raise the matter, if I roll need on an item for my companion, (a game feature introduced and fully supported by Bioware that players are encouraged to use) does that make me a ninja looter or a jerk just because i'm playing the game as the developers intended?

 

Or am I being a jerk or ninja-looter just because I'm not playing the game the way you want the world to play the game i.e YOUR way?

 

1) you are wrong the jerks arent being kicked or doing the kicking, the group leader does the kicking, don't group with a jerk as the group leader. If you find out the leader is a jerk, put him on ignore and never group with him again.

 

2) If you are a ninja looter then you are a ninja looter, and I will kick you from my group, If you need an item a player needs for your pet then i consider you a ninja looter, i will kick you and ignore you. If you think I am wrong, well don't worry after i kick you and put you on ignore you won't ever have to group with me again.

[Spareplug]

More rhetoric to defend bad behaviour, Do you really want to be able to grief players so badly that you come here and make up garbage posts like this?

 

You want an LFD system so much, so you can queue for it and greif the group, with no repercussions.

 

NO, i want to be able to immediately kick anyone like you who takes pleasure in greifing and ruining other players gaming experience.

 

You obviously don't know what I want because you didn't bother to read the post where I stated my case. I surely don't want you policing my server. God forbid that would ever happen. It would be the end of this game as we know it.

 

What I'd love to have is a forum tool that would allow me to kick forum posters like you. Fortunately for you that doesn't exist. If it did there wouldn't be anyone to post on these forums.

 

Cheers,

[Yfelsung]

There is one time when is also to be a wife beater i.e when they don't do what you want them to do...yet those people go to jail.

 

Please stop making senseless comments...you're showing your true colors.

 

Also you should refrain form naming and shaming as it is against the Forum Rules regardless if the said toon still exists or not.

 

Senseless comments? What world do you live in where punching a bully in the face is the equivalent of wife abuse.

 

Do you know what happens when you just "tell on" a bully? They just learn not to get caught. They learn to corner you when the teacher's not looking and to give you body shots because they don't leave marks.

 

Do you know what happens when you ignore a bully? You get punched while you're not looking.

 

Do you know what stops a bully? Blind siding him with a rock and kicking him the head for a while while he's down.

 

I know we're taught to live in this wonderful world where turning the other cheek and loving each other is how things get done, but that's not the world we live in.

 

In the world we live in, you fight fear with better fear. You fight fire with more fire. You fight a bully by using his own tools against him.

 

When you slap 1000 people in the face, expect to feel 1000 punches at the same time.

[Khoranth]

For thelast time no one is arguing that wow did not see more new subs during BC. No one. i said wrath had the most players, which is true.

 

you keep bringing up null points that we BOTH have conceded to be true, because they dont bring any weight to your argument

 

WOTLk did not have the most players. the era you refer to as WOTLK, was actually still BC for CHina, wotlk was just released in CHina.

 

And ever since wotlk was released in China, WoW has seen millions of players from china quit.

 

You have to take that into consideration when you talk about WoWs recent loss of millions of subs. Those losses were not mostly EU/US players who were in the cataclysm xpac, they were players from china in the wotlk xpac.

[BizzyBonez]

LFR No, LFG/LFD Absolutely

[Spareplug]

Best part, he got driven off the server he moved to as well. I went to go check their forums one day after I figured out where he went, and he was doing the same stuff on his new server.

 

Isn't this the same thing as stalking someone? You actually went to the trouble of finding this guy just to see what he was doing. That sounds very vindictive and really sickening.

 

I don't want players that exhibit this kind of behavior as part of the community. Sorry mate but you need help and not the kind that can be provided in this forums.

 

I just hope you don't have kittens or puppies.

[blubomber]

WOTLk did not have the most players. the era you refer to as WOTLK, was actually still BC for CHina, wotlk was just released in CHina.

 

And ever since wotlk was released in China, WoW has seen millions of players from china quit.

 

You have to take that into consideration when you talk about WoWs recent loss of millions of subs. Those losses were not mostly EU/US players who were in the cataclysm xpac, they were players from china in the wotlk xpac.

 

 

Im not even going to argue if what your saying is accurate, because it isnt relevant.

 

If what you say is 100% true, it STILL HAS NO CORRELATION WITH A LFD TOOL. At all. It doesnt support your argument because there is no proof any subscription changes were directly influenced by there being one or not.

[Olzmo]

The expanions and WoW's sub numbers and what features were in those expansions are all facts.

 

Do you actually want to argue with the fact that wow saw its biggest increase in subs durin BC?

 

Do you actually want to argue that WoW saw its biggest decrease in subs during wotlk?

 

Those 2 things are facts, if you want to argue with my conclusions, fine. but you make yourself look foolish if are you are trying to argue with those 2 facts.

The arguable thing is the existence of a causal relationship between those facts and the implementation of a LFG tool. Please, read this very carefully: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Correlation_does_not_imply_causation

Edited January 5, 2012 by Olzmo

[Exzear]

before i foudn out that all instances are in the main city/fleet i dont see why not... at first i was happy because i thought the instances wuold be out in the open world but they were not so now i dont really see the problem in having the LFD system.. but LFR is bS though because you should either have a guild and raid or not raid at all.. (my personal opinions..)

[Spareplug]

Now you are championing your ability to ninja loot, and you don't want someone to be able to kick you or ignore you because you are a ninja looter.

 

WOW you are sure have some nerve, coming here to champion LFD so you can ninja loot and greif other players.

 

I LOL'ed hard at this. So basically if I understood you correctly what you are saying is that Bioware champions ninja-looting by introducing the companion feature? and that by default I am a ninja-looter when I use this particular feature of the game.

 

Is that correct? Please tel me it is, so i can LOL'd more at your expense.

[MasterKayote]

You're right, it doesn't, that's more of an argument against zone wide channels than for the LFD tool.

 

The wider a channel, the worse the channel.

 

See, I don't spam the general channel to find people. I use /say and tells to, you know, socialize with people. Learn their names, RP with them a little, see if they're nice people.

 

You know, human interaction. Basic socialization techniques.

 

When you try to meet new people in real life, do you stand on a street corner screaming at the top of your lungs?

 

I get it, you've never seen a good MMO community. Doesn't mean they're not real.

 

Ok! We get it, youre a social butterfly ... the life of any party ... mr/ms popularity ... everybody loves you. You love going up to people without knowing whether they even want to talk to you or are interested in what you have to say ... congratulations. Not everyone is. In fact, most of the people I know have some semblance or shyness, specially in the gaming community. Most people do not just randomly pick a name from a list and start asking every individual to come to an FP without the other showing some sign of interest ... that doesnt make them anti-social by any means.

 

Asking that everyone personally pm people as you do is impractical. In fact if everyone started PM'ing me every 5 minutes to LFG, id just get annoyed and turn it off until I wanted to look for an FP. The next best thing is to spam general ... which, as you can see, isnt working either and requires at least an hour of sitting in one zone with nothing to do but spam.

 

So long as an LFD tool does not pool from other servers or ports people into the instance, it shouldnt have any of the negative outcomes seen in the WoW version. It simply removes the requirement to remain in one zone, bored out of your mind, wasting over an hour just to get an instance started. Everything else remains the same as it would otherwise.

[Yfelsung]

Isn't this the same thing as stalking someone? You actually went to the trouble of finding this guy just to see what he was doing. That sounds very vindictive and really sickening.

 

I don't want players that exhibit this kind of behavior as part of the community. Sorry mate but you need help and not the kind that can be provided in this forums.

 

I just hope you don't have kittens or puppies.

 

That's weird, see I want players with the gonads to stand up to bullies like the guy we drove off the server.

 

I have no use for people who'd let a guy like that walk all over them and continue his abuses.

 

Different people I guess, I prefer strength over weakness.

[Spareplug]

Not really arguing with you but you seem to be generalizing here yourself. Not all successful guilds are run this way, and yes successful is an relative term.

 

In fact you pretty much described the exact type of guilds that I normally avoid. Applications? Trials? Fees? Sounds like Im applying for a job. A job implies work. Im here to have fun, not work. Doesnt mean I dont put in work, but I prefer a less formal atmosphere. And dont go claim that this alienates me from end game raids/content. In all games Ive played and was part of a guild, they were casual guilds and we hammered end game content no problem.

 

Not badmouthing those types of guilds. Some people enjoy the extra paperwork and social aspect of running a guild, and the competitive drive to be "best". Still others just want a like minded group of individuals to more easily fill groups and raids with.

 

Coincidentally I joined those guilds after questing with members through pugs.

 

I agree with you. Perhaps my example was a bit narrow minded and should have expanded a little bit more. You're absolutely right that every guild caters to a different need.

[Korialstrazs]

This is a thread for people who somehow think "community" is impacted by a tool that increases the ease of finding a group. Whose server no longer has world pvp because people got BORED of doing it, not because they're busy in cross realm dungeons. This is a thread for people who think that any random person on your server is more likely to talk to you than the guy from one server over. Seriously, I played WoW from beta-cata, and not once did the "spirit of community" from having to spam for TWO HOURS to find a group that would take a rogue help me make friends or succeed in future endeavors. The worst groups I've EVER experienced in any mmo were not because of the anonymous people in lfg, but the friends of my friends, on my server, who represented their guild with their actions.

 

There is no reason to fight against a cross server lfg, people say it ruined WoW, and it somehow made everyone a jerk. The truth is that nothing has changed, and the lfg was the best thing WoW has implemented to increase the amount of content being seen at ALL character levels. My server still has world pvp, my server still has rivalries, my server still has persons and guilds of note with real presence wherever they go. If yours doesn't, then maybe you should've just gone somewhere else to find that community you're fighting so hard to keep, like an rp server.

[Yfelsung]

Ok! We get it, youre a social butterfly ... the life of any party ... mr/ms popularity ... everybody loves you. You love going up to people without knowing whether they even want to talk to you or are interested in what you have to say ... congratulations. Not everyone is. In fact, most of the people I know have some semblance or shyness, specially in the gaming community. Most people do not just randomly pick a name from a list and start asking every individual to come to an FP without the other showing some sign of interest ... that doesnt make them anti-social by any means.

 

Asking that everyone personally pm people as you do is impractical. In fact if everyone started PM'ing me every 5 minutes to LFG, id just get annoyed and turn it off until I wanted to look for an FP. The next best thing is to spam general ... which, as you can see, isnt working either and requires at least an hour of sitting in one zone with nothing to do but spam.

 

So long as an LFD tool does not pool from other servers or ports people into the instance, it shouldnt have any of the negative outcomes seen in the WoW version. It simply removes the requirement to remain in one zone, bored out of your mind, wasting over an hour just to get an instance started. Everything else remains the same as it would otherwise.

 

Actually, the sad part is I'm quite anti-social and insular. Yet I still seem to be able to make friends online.

 

That's what really blows my mind. If someone as anti-social as me can do this, what does that say about those so shy they can't.

 

I'd say that level of shyness has entered the realm of fear of human contact.

[Spareplug]

Ignore the bullies and dont jump off bridges because others do.

 

No worries mates. Just exchanging thoughts. No hard feelings.

 

However yes, ignoring the bullies and no jumping off bridges because others do tends to work. If it doesn't that is when you involve higher powers, in this case Bioware and let them apply the law as stated in the TOS.

 

The community should never be allowed to police themselves. We are not mature enough and it leads to abuse of power, slander and bulling

[blubomber]

Actually, the sad part is I'm quite anti-social and insular. Yet I still seem to be able to make friends online.

 

That's what really blows my mind. If someone as anti-social as me can do this, what does that say about those so shy they can't.

 

I'd say that level of shyness has entered the realm of fear of human contact.

 

Thank you Mr. armchair psychiatrist.

 

your level of anti-social/shy behavior clearly isnt an issue for you. This does not have any relation to anyone else in the world.

[rgolch]

Even though I am for a LFG tool, I will say that it made guilds less relevant in WoW. I think that's why they implemented guild leveling/perks. Edited January 5, 2012 by rgolch

[JediGnome]

The amount of misinformation people will spread to get their way is disturbing.

 

First off, the WoW community was terrible long before LFD. If you think otherwise, you either didn't play before LFD, or are a liar. Any large community is going to naturally breed a sense of anonymity and trolling, LFD tool or otherwise.

 

Second, I have talked to and made friends from the LFD tool in WoW. Have I met some punks? Yes. Have I met some punks pre-LFD tool just by spamming for groups? Yes.

 

Third, this idea of a server community is such a joke. There were no server communities in WoW before LFD. I played WoW from 12:30AM CST, November 23rd 2004. I played on one of the "original 20" servers that were brought up at launch...there was never some grand sense of server community. Never, not once. There was exactly what we have to day: People standing around their capital city, showing off their gear, waiting to do the next thing, whatever that was. The closest thing you go to a server community were the server forums, which still exist today, and are still used for what they were used for then: Horde v. Alliance ***** measure contests and general trolling, just of a more personal nature.

 

If you don't like the LFD for some reason, that's fine, you are entitled to your opinion...but don't just make a bunch of crap up to try and prove your point. It's at best complete and total nostalgia poisoning, and at worst out and out lies.

[Eloshan]

My 2 cents...

 

X-server LFG? Good for low pop servers, bad for community.

 

Same-server LFG? Good for community, bad for low pop servers.

 

No LFG system? Well, I for one, have spent up to 2 hours trying to get a group for various things in TOR, usually unsuccessfully. Then I give up and go level or log off. If you that's good for the game, think again.

[blubomber]

The amount of misinformation people will spread to get their way is disturbing.

 

First off, the WoW community was terrible long before LFD. If you think otherwise, you either didn't play before LFD, or are a liar. Any large community is going to naturally breed a sense of anonymity and trolling, LFD tool or otherwise.

 

Second, I have talked to and made friends from the LFD tool in WoW. Have I met some punks? Yes. Have I met some punks pre-LFD tool just by spamming for groups? Yes.

 

Third, this idea of a server community is such a joke. There were no server communities in WoW before LFD. I played WoW from 12:30AM CST, November 23rd 2004. I played on one of the "original 20" servers that were brought up at launch...there was never some grand sense of server community. Never, not once. There was exactly what we have to day: People standing around their capital city, showing off their gear, waiting to do the next thing, whatever that was. The closest thing you go to a server community were the server forums, which still exist today, and are still used for what they were used for then: Horde v. Alliance ***** measure contests and general trolling, just of a more personal nature.

 

If you don't like the LFD for some reason, that's fine, you are entitled to your opinion...but don't just make a bunch of crap up to try and prove your point. It's at best complete and total nostalgia poisoning, and at worst out and out lies.

 

This guy nailed it.

[MasterKayote]

I LOL'ed hard at this. So basically if I understood you correctly what you are saying is that Bioware champions ninja-looting by introducing the companion feature? and that by default I am a ninja-looter when I use this particular feature of the game.

 

Is that correct? Please tel me it is, so i can LOL'd more at your expense.

 

Bioware said its ok for you roll for and take gear for your pets that didnt even help kill the boss? No they didnt. By your argument I guess its ok to just roll need on everthing ... i mean Bioware lets you do it didnt they? Why would they let a smuggler roll need on Heavy Trooper gear if they werent 100% ok with it. Hell, my 5 companions pretty much cover all stats and gear types ... I have rights to it all! Me ME ME!

 

... youre a ninja and nobody likes you, get over it. No, youre worse than a ninja, at least they dont try to justify their b/s. In fact, if youre an Imp in Juyo id appreciate you PM me your toons name so I can add you to my "friend list." Thanks

Edited January 5, 2012 by MasterKayote