Please allow dual spec or cap respec costs.

[Varghjerta]

The developers actually said during one of the E3's that they made the roles this way (contain both damage/heals, or tank/damage) so that people can fill roles easier when grouping up. Well, the concept is currently a failure, or it is broken because we don't have dual spec and we have to travel to respec and pay 100's of thousands of credits at a time.

The Ac itself both contains Tank/DPS or Healer/DPS except 2 that are pure DPS why do you feel that you should be able to do both at the same time?

 

But you can most of the time go without a tank aswell just yesterday i did Taral V on an Alt with 3 dps and a healer did all bosses except the bonus boss .

 

Was challenging but really doable aslong as some of the dps could Offheal on the bigger pulls/bosses

Edited January 10, 2012 by Varghjerta

[Rheinland]

BS. I don't care who you are, no one can drop 60k credits every other day to respec.

 

Highest speeders cost 1,500,000 credits. 60k is chump change compared to that.

[Mercia]

So the game doesnt really NEED dual speccing...its just that you WANT it. Sense of entitlement much??

 

Since my previous post which admittedly was long (reading comprehension among the internet crowd seems at an all time low) was more or less ignored ill try to brake this down into the main points of why people think dual speccs are neccesary:

 

1. Easier to get groups ... partly true but mostly a non-issue in this specific game. Thanks to the companion system there are plenty of tanks/healers around.

 

2. More character flexibility ... while true it is not needed to be successful at the game. Also it comes into direct conflict with the "choice should matter" mantra that the other side is advocating and the RP aspect of the game (yes its not just an MMO...its an mmoRPG)

 

3. PvP vs PvE spec ... another non-issue ... most specs are viable for both. And honestly the differences are negligible. Those who are dedicated PvPers can use that same spec for PvE and vice versa. (this is meant for PvE healer vs PvP healer and such...for the issue of wanting different roles see the point above)

 

What else is there...hmm...well point them out and ill address them.

 

I dont know why people find it so hard to understand that some of us want some realism in our game even though it is a sci-fi fantasy world...basic logic should not be circumvented. Ive given this example before, you cant "respec" from being a heart surgeon to being a brain surgeon on the fly. It takes years to re-specialize, go through residency again and so on even though they both belong to the surgery "advanced class" from the doctor "class". Any form of re-speccing should reflect these basic realities...at least the current one asks you to make a basic sacrifice of time + money to get it done.

 

Also...to those saying "if you dont like it just dont use it, simple as that"...i call ********. It would affect even those that dont want to use it...heres a basic example: say we have player A (scoudrel DPS spec not using dual spec) and player B (scoundrel DPS spec with healing off-spec). Lets also assume that the players are of equal skill and have equivalent gear. Most raid leaders would invite B more often then not because of the extra spec simply because if/when the situation requires it that player could switch on the fly.

 

Finally...in my personal opinion, they dumb down the game. Some might not agree but let me explain why i have this opinion. Content is designed with a general composition in mind. If you give players the opportunity to have 100% ideal group composition before each boss encounter they will take it regardless what the composition was when they started the raid...if this is true for each individual fight then each fight becomes easier since you have ideal group composition for each making the raid as a whole easier. Having a set composition (the one you entered the raid with) may give you better odds against some bosses but worse ones against others which means you have to adapt and evolve (another night you might have different composition and have to adjust again)...that is a good thing IMHO. Some people might argue that hard-core raiders would send their teammates out to re-spec anyways but to that the only thing i have to say is that...well...if they have to do that they are not really hard-core raiders in the first place.

 

In the end...its not so much people NEEDING dual-spec as much as people WANTING it...well, some people at least.

 

...sorry...i started this not wanting it to turn into another wall of text but i think some things just need to be said...kudos to anyone patient enough to read through it.

 

I read it but just dont agree.

 

Its a well thought out post and your reasons are solid

 

But i would just much prefer flexibility over a rigid set structure

 

It just makes running a guild a whole lot easier if people can switch roles out.

 

Im not saying your wrong but i think your in a small minority of people who dont think its good for the game

[BeeSiK]

Actually.. Dual Spec is so wrong....

Feels like cheating to me.

Or more like spoiling people who cant choose and want everything easy.

 

If you want to tank... roll a tank.

If you want to healer ... roll a healer.

etc..

Whats wrong with creating 3 chars?...

 

And if you dont want to roll 3 chars... then you have to pay for the privilege of not having to level up 2-3 chars.

 

Sounds normal to me.

 

Being able to create 1 char that can fill 3 rolls on the fly is not only "to easy" ... its also just plain unrealistic (yes.. i said it.. unrealistic in a fantasy game!!)

 

But hey.. it'll probably be implemented cause there are more people wanting easy-play then there are people that want a challenge

 

if a game like diablo 2 added ways to respec..it should

 

1. be free

2. have dual spec

 

just saying 1 miss click or w/e cuz of a lag spike or w/e reason happens..its a good system. Just because wow or some other game did it first (no game that comes out now is 100% original) doesn't mean you have to jump on the hate train

Edited January 10, 2012 by BeeSiK

[Varghjerta]

if a game like diablo 2 added ways to respec..it should

 

1. be free

2. have dual spec

 

just saying 1 miss click or w/e cuz of a lag spike or w/e reason happens..its a good system. Just because wow or some other game did it first (no game that comes out now is 100% original) doesn't mean you have to jump on the hate train

 

Did you just use the people can misclick and click a talent that they didnt want and therefor we need dual specc?

What happens if they it happens on both speccs then

Edited January 10, 2012 by Varghjerta

[Lethality]

More than any other fix, piece of content, I would desperately want dual spec.

 

It is by far my #1 most desired feature.

 

Why? You can already respec.

[CharagonIGN]

1. Easier to get groups ... partly true but mostly a non-issue in this specific game. Thanks to the companion system there are plenty of tanks/healers around.

False

 

2. More character flexibility ... while true it is not needed to be successful at the game. Also it comes into direct conflict with the "choice should matter" mantra that the other side is advocating and the RP aspect of the game (yes its not just an MMO...its an mmoRPG)

False

 

3. PvP vs PvE spec ... another non-issue ... most specs are viable for both. And honestly the differences are negligible. Those who are dedicated PvPers can use that same spec for PvE and vice versa. (this is meant for PvE healer vs PvP healer and such...for the issue of wanting different roles see the point above)

False

 

 

Feel free to speak again when you rejoin us in reality.

[Scorpaznatica]

Here is my problem:

 

First of all, I play a 50 vanguard Grammaton (valor 49 atm) and I have him set as a pve tank and I like the build I'm using for him.

 

After using my pve build in pvp for a while, I felt like changing it up and experimenting with other combinations of talents to suit my play style and see what a vanguard is capable of with the other trees. I ended up getting to the 99.8k credit cap just playing with the class finding out as much as i could about each tree and how it can be applied in pvp.

 

I finally settled on the fact that there are 2 different builds that I would like to play regularly. One of them is for pve and the other is for pvp. I currently do hard modes and will soon be raiding during the week and would like to be able to swap to a pvp build when I'm not tanking for my guild.

 

The thought of having to spend almost 100k each time i want to pvp (or go back to pve tanking) is ridiculous to me. It hinders my overall experience of the game. I want to be able to enjoy every aspect of the game that interests me without having to make some scratch on the side to respec everyday.

[Kalanur]

Then pick a spec and stick with it...

 

 

OR

GO BACK TO WOW, RIFT or any other MMO. Keep SWTOR dofferent

 

What an arrogant comment...

 

So I should pick a spec and stick with it? Mkay... If I pick Tank spec, I can do Flashpoints but no Raids because only one Tank is needed per Raid and every other tank is a lost spot.

Okay then I pick DD.. no wait then I can't do Flashpoints anymore because we don't have enough tanks!

 

Just because you don't like dual spec or it's working for you with only one spec doesn't mean other people need it. Forget it. All people need it or we get a tank and healer shortage soon.

 

Btw if you want to let SWToR stay different as other MMOs doesn't mean it should not "copy" the GOOD things of other MMOs. Copying good parts of MMOs is what every good / successfull MMO did, WoW did nothing else back then and is still copying from other new MMOs. If SWToR wants to survive it has to evolve, inventing new stuff and also implementing stuff that works in other MMOs.

 

Next time think more about it before you post crap like that.

Edited January 10, 2012 by Kalanur

[invispoet]

Why? Give us all a viable reason??

 

Reasons not to have it.. All healing classes being asked or demanded to have a healing spec, despite player not wanting to heal in the first place.. This happened constantly in WOW.. Anyone with a tank or healing class were forced to spec that way if they wanted to raid.. It was always nice to be a rogue or a warlock..

 

This happens with or without dual spec. This is an issue with respec in general. Dual spec does nothing but make it EASIER for people to fill roles that they WANT to fill. If they dont want to fill it, they dont have to.

 

This game has no need for dual spec.. There is no reason to dual spec at all.. There is no PVP spec.. The game was designed with the intent that people PVPed in their PVE specs.. Which is why all skill sets are viable.. Tanks and healers can actually kills stuff in PVE and PVP.. We also have companions Which everyone seems to forget about..

 

People need to learn to use companions.. They can tank, heal, and DPS with the best of them as long as their gear is current.. Again there is no need for dual specs..

 

You cannot use companions in warzones

You cannot use companions in flashpoints (assuming full group)

You cannot use companions in Operations

You (soon to come)cannot use companions on Ilum.

 

Using a companion to fill a VITAL group role in GROUP content is not viable. Trying having a companion tank a heroic 4 with pugs, or go the extra mile and have a companion tank (or heal)all the heroic mode flashpoints. The majority of the community is NOT asking for respecs so they can solo, but so they can be flexible to help their guilds raid composition, or pvp and raid. Soloing as a tank or healer (at 50, at least, once you have all your companions) is NOT an issue. Stop using this as a crutch to your argument.

 

If you don't want to heal then don't.. If you do then do.. If you want to change every once in a while then see the guy at the capital cities.. He can reset your talents for a fee.. There is nothing wrong with this system.. It worked great in WOW over the first 6 years of so.. Dual speccing in many ways started the decline.. Because people weren't really good at playing one class or one spec.. They were so so at playing multiple specs.. Viable pugs became a rare thing.. Now hardly anyone knows how to play their toons..

 

It works great, except that you have 3/7/15 other people waiting for you while you do it, for no reason other than to waste time. The entire reason wow added dual specs is to reduce downtime for groups, because it's fun to play the game...it's NOT fun waiting to play it.

 

While I don't suspect gear will be much of an issue as there really isn't much in the way of healing gear and tank gear.. Bioware geared classes instead of specs.. So each class in a way has their own gear type..

 

Have you even gotten to 50?

 

Healers primarily stack their primary stat, then power and alacrity.

 

Dps primarily stack their primary stat, then power, and then any combination of crit/surge/alacrity (depending on class/spec)

 

Tanks primarily stack endurance, then their primary stat (which basicall comes with the endurance anyway), then defense, shield rating, absorb rating, and power/crit.

 

Have you noticed how the stats that are best for any one role are almost always worst for the others? (with the exception of power).

 

Bottom line is there is no reason to dual spec in this game.. People can already reset their talents when ever they want.. It can get spendy if are changing specs like a baby going through diapers.. There is a supposed to be a sense of realism in this game if you will.. Nobody should be able to just do it all with the press of the button..

 

You seem to be focusing on the cost, which most people arent really worried about. No one is saying dual spec should be free (or cheap). The problem with forcing someone to run back to the fleet and respec is that this forces the REST OF THE PARTY (3/7/15 people) to sit and twiddle their thumbs while they do it.

 

In the end.. Dual speccing will add to the already sense of laziness that many gamers have.. They want to sit back and watch the game play itself.. They want super gear that can do it all and kill everything.. They don't want to wait.. They don't want to earn it.. They want it handed to them..

 

Dual spec doesnt change the gameplay or make it easier. Bosses dont have less health, do less damage, or die quicker just because dual spec is added to the game. The majority of the game content is built around groups. If you can't build a group, you can't do the content. The purpose of dual spec is to reduce time spent SEARCHING for a balanced group. It has nothing to do with how good, bad, or lazy the players are.

 

It will have no impact on anyone in this game to leave the current speccing system as is.. We have pleanty of tanks and healers.. Groups are going nicely. Heck.. I was in a group that was all DPS.. Companions tanked and healed.. It was awsome!! This was a flashpoint by the way.. Again just make sure they are geared like you are..

 

Was it a hard mode flashpoint? Was it a level 50 flashpoint? Or was it a flashpoint meant for 2 people (black talon) that some classes can solo at level? Companions do NOT make viable tanks in level 50 group content (other than the occasional heroic 2 quest)

 

You're also refusing to think about the raiding community, or the pvp community when making this statement. People dont want dual spec to make themselves more powerful, they want it to make themselves more FLEXIBLE. This means if your main tank can't raid tonight, or someone gets sick, or has to work, or has finals tomorrow, or any number of other things, the 15 other raid members aren't sitting around unable to finish the content. The #2 tank becomes the main tank, The dps with the best tank gear/spec swaps to be the off tank, you fill in a dps spot, and go. The alternative requires spending close to half a million credits just to be able to zone in to the operation and have a CHANCE of success.

 

On top of that, how you can POSSIBLY think that having EVERYONE spend less time looking for a group for EVERYTHING in the game is a bad thing. Do you enjoy waiting for a group to form?

 

So here it is people.. One more post to add to the thousands that are never read that explain why we should not have dual speccing..

 

There no viable reason for dual speccing in this game.. Not in the way it was designed.. There is no class that is handicapped for leveling as either tank or heals.. Companions also help with that..

 

I've read almost all of these, and every single one of the "anti Dual spec" threads seems to focus on the solo play (where it is not needed), or on the cost of it (which we are not disputing). It's not needed for solo play, it's needed to lessen downtime experienced when trying to form a group for GROUP content.

 

Adding dual spec is not going to magically make people be meaner to you, or make bosses die faster, make players lose 20 IQ points and become morons (at least, no more than they already are)...it hurts NO ONE, and benefits EVERYONE that does GROUP content (which, seeing how this is a Massively MULTIPLAYER online game, SHOULD be everyone).

[invispoet]

So the game doesnt really NEED dual speccing...its just that you WANT it. Sense of entitlement much??

 

1. Easier to get groups ... partly true but mostly a non-issue in this specific game. Thanks to the companion system there are plenty of tanks/healers around.

 

You can't do heroic 4's with your companion. Not everyone can do heroic 2's with their companions, because it depends on what roles you and your companion play, and what order you get your companions in (knights, for example, dont get their healer till the late 30s, early 40s). You also cannot use companions in warzones or operations, and good luck having a companion tank or heal a level 50 flashpoint, or a hard mode flashpoint.

 

yes, dual spec makes soloing easier, but that's not it's primary function.

 

In case you havent figured it out yet, this is a MULTIPLAYER game. This means that most of the content is DESIGNED to be played by GROUPS. There is a very specific group makeup required for most content. You need X amount of healers, Y amount of Tanx, and Z amount of dps. Yes, while doing your Heroic 2 quests solo, you can use your companion...at level 50, that doesnt really work anymore (for most content)

 

2. More character flexibility ... while true it is not needed to be successful at the game. Also it comes into direct conflict with the "choice should matter" mantra that the other side is advocating and the RP aspect of the game (yes its not just an MMO...its an mmoRPG)

 

It's not about character flexibility as much as it is about GROUP flexibility. Giving everyone multiple options makes it much easier to put together groups that have a chance of success.

 

If you REALLY want to push the RP factor, go and re-read the advanced class description/story/gameplay blurbs at the character creation screen. ALL mercenaries know how to blow stuff up, and ALL of them know the basics of first aid. It's also stated that bounty hunters change their tactics depending on their prey.

 

3. PvP vs PvE spec ... another non-issue ... most specs are viable for both. And honestly the differences are negligible. Those who are dedicated PvPers can use that same spec for PvE and vice versa. (this is meant for PvE healer vs PvP healer and such...for the issue of wanting different roles see the point above)

 

I mostly agree with this. Bioware has done a good job of mixing in the survivability/mobility/utility talents in the primary talent trees, and there isnt a lot of variation (dont get me wrong, there are still 2-3 variations per spec, which, in and of itself is 24 variations people could want to use to maximize dps/healing/mobility or survivability). The thing is, giving them choices (and limiting those choice a bit, as in...you can't respec once the match starts) isnt going to hurt anyone, and has the potential to make the game more fun for more people.

 

 

I dont know why people find it so hard to understand that some of us want some realism in our game even though it is a sci-fi fantasy world...basic logic should not be circumvented. Ive given this example before, you cant "respec" from being a heart surgeon to being a brain surgeon on the fly. It takes years to re-specialize, go through residency again and so on even though they both belong to the surgery "advanced class" from the doctor "class". Any form of re-speccing should reflect these basic realities...at least the current one asks you to make a basic sacrifice of time + money to get it done.

 

You obviously dont understand the concept of 'suspension of disbelief". Don't compare game concepts to medical professions. Bioware INTENDED us to be able to change specs. The option is already in the game. All people are asking for is a way to make it less of a time waste to do so. Having my group sit on Belsavis, while i ride back to the spaceport, back to my ship, to the fleet, respec, re-do my hotbars, BACK to my ship, BACK to belsavis, and BACK to where the group is...is retarded, and serves no purpose but to aggravate people and waste time.

 

Also...to those saying "if you dont like it just dont use it, simple as that"...i call ********. It would affect even those that dont want to use it...heres a basic example: say we have player A (scoudrel DPS spec not using dual spec) and player B (scoundrel DPS spec with healing off-spec). Lets also assume that the players are of equal skill and have equivalent gear. Most raid leaders would invite B more often then not because of the extra spec simply because if/when the situation requires it that player could switch on the fly.

 

Not exactly true. If you're recruiting a dps, you dont really care about how good they are at healing, because...if you needed healers, you'd be recruiting healers. It IS nice to have a little flexibility, in case someone can't make it, but in your example, it's not Player B's responsibility to make sure the raid has a healer. He's been recruited for dps. period. You dont recruit one player to play 2 roles, unless the encounter design is wonky...in which case, it's the fault of the encounter designers, not dual spec.

 

Finally...in my personal opinion, they dumb down the game. Some might not agree but let me explain why i have this opinion. Content is designed with a general composition in mind. If you give players the opportunity to have 100% ideal group composition before each boss encounter they will take it regardless what the composition was when they started the raid...if this is true for each individual fight then each fight becomes easier since you have ideal group composition for each making the raid as a whole easier. Having a set composition (the one you entered the raid with) may give you better odds against some bosses but worse ones against others which means you have to adapt and evolve (another night you might have different composition and have to adjust again)...that is a good thing IMHO. Some people might argue that hard-core raiders would send their teammates out to re-spec anyways but to that the only thing i have to say is that...well...if they have to do that they are not really hard-core raiders in the first place.

 

You have this backwards. The game designers already have a template that you need to meet in order for you to be successful. You already need X amount of tanks, Y amount of heals per second (which usually translates into # of healers), and Z amount of dps. This design philosophy is ALREADY in the game. The only thing dual spec does is give MORE groups the ability to meet these requirements. The raid doesnt magically do double dps because everyone has a dual spec. While you can argue that they could POTENTIALLY do more dps now that they have the ability to change specs a bit depending on the fight...They can ALREADY do that...it just requires everyone going back to the fleet to do so. All dual spec does is let them do it more efficiently.

 

Once again, it's not giving us anything we can't already do, it's just making it so we waste less time doing it. This is the same reason that people drive to work instead of walking...it's not dumbing it down, it's making it more efficient.

 

In the end...its not so much people NEEDING dual-spec as much as people WANTING it...well, some people at least.

 

...sorry...i started this not wanting it to turn into another wall of text but i think some things just need to be said...kudos to anyone patient enough to read through it.

 

You're right, nobody NEEDS dual spec. But at the same time, they have the option to put in a feature that hurts NO ONE (you can still solo with your companions, solo your group quests, and do your low level flashpoints with your companions the same way you are now), and gives everyone else the ability to form groups more quickly, which means they spend LESS time sitting around doing nothing. Doing nothing is not fun.

 

Dual spec doesnt break the game, dumb it down, or make players stronger in and of itself. All it does is streamline the respec system that is in the game, so that less time is wasted.

 

Just on a side note, having people waste less time is the same reason we have sprint and speeders in the game...does anyon have any arguments on how THEY ruin the game?

Edited January 11, 2012 by invispoet

[Valceanu]

False - very true on my server at least.

 

False - arguments please. At least i brought some to back up my view of things. Otherwise you just make yourself look foolish. So please explain why it is IMPOSSIBLE to be successful without dual speccing...

 

False - actually this is 90% true...there is very little variation within builds as was in fact intended (and stated) by the devs.

 

Feel free to speak again when you rejoin us in reality.

 

Feel free to speak again when you learn the basic concepts of logic... not to mention learn better manners.

[Slightlycampana]

Feel free to answer the poll on whether you want dual speccing or not. See the link in my sig.

[Valceanu]

You can't do heroic 4's with your companion. Not everyone can do heroic 2's with their companions, because it depends on what roles you and your companion play, and what order you get your companions in (knights, for example, dont get their healer till the late 30s, early 40s). You also cannot use companions in warzones or operations, and good luck having a companion tank or heal a level 50 flashpoint, or a hard mode flashpoint.

 

yes, dual spec makes soloing easier, but that's not it's primary function.

 

In case you havent figured it out yet, this is a MULTIPLAYER game. This means that most of the content is DESIGNED to be played by GROUPS. There is a very specific group makeup required for most content. You need X amount of healers, Y amount of Tanx, and Z amount of dps. Yes, while doing your Heroic 2 quests solo, you can use your companion...at level 50, that doesnt really work anymore (for most content)

 

It's not about character flexibility as much as it is about GROUP flexibility. Giving everyone multiple options makes it much easier to put together groups that have a chance of success.

 

Maybe you didnt get the point...i am well aware of what you are saying. All i was pointing out is that because of the companion system people have been more inclined to roll tanks/healers then in other games therefor making grouping very easy. Ive yet to experience difficulty finding people to fill any group role.

 

If you REALLY want to push the RP factor, go and re-read the advanced class description/story/gameplay blurbs at the character creation screen. ALL mercenaries know how to blow stuff up, and ALL of them know the basics of first aid. It's also stated that bounty hunters change their tactics depending on their prey.

 

The key word here is BASIC healing/damage. Like you said yourself. They are not specialists in both hence the need to specialize yourself.

 

I mostly agree with this. Bioware has done a good job of mixing in the survivability/mobility/utility talents in the primary talent trees, and there isnt a lot of variation (dont get me wrong, there are still 2-3 variations per spec, which, in and of itself is 24 variations people could want to use to maximize dps/healing/mobility or survivability). The thing is, giving them choices (and limiting those choice a bit, as in...you can't respec once the match starts) isnt going to hurt anyone, and has the potential to make the game more fun for more people.

 

Because catering to min/maxers has worked out so well for other games... seriously though... id rather have people use their heads to circumvent the drawbacks of their choice (of spec in this case) then give them the easy way out. In the long run it improves overall player performance.

You obviously dont understand the concept of 'suspension of disbelief". Don't compare game concepts to medical professions. Bioware INTENDED us to be able to change specs. The option is already in the game. All people are asking for is a way to make it less of a time waste to do so. Having my group sit on Belsavis, while i ride back to the spaceport, back to my ship, to the fleet, respec, re-do my hotbars, BACK to my ship, BACK to belsavis, and BACK to where the group is...is retarded, and serves no purpose but to aggravate people and waste time.

 

While the comparison might be a bit of an exaggeration its no less true. I even classified them in spec, AC and base class for clarity. It illustrates the point perfectly... and its not that i dont understand the concept, its that i prefer things to be believable in the first place even at the cost of "convenience".

Not exactly true. If you're recruiting a dps, you dont really care about how good they are at healing, because...if you needed healers, you'd be recruiting healers. It IS nice to have a little flexibility, in case someone can't make it, but in your example, it's not Player B's responsibility to make sure the raid has a healer. He's been recruited for dps. period. You dont recruit one player to play 2 roles, unless the encounter design is wonky...in which case, it's the fault of the encounter designers, not dual spec.

 

This is only true for PUGs which are in fact the lowest form of grouping. What i said is oriented more towards guild situations and such which is where game design should be concentrated in my opinion.

 

You have this backwards. The game designers already have a template that you need to meet in order for you to be successful. You already need X amount of tanks, Y amount of heals per second (which usually translates into # of healers), and Z amount of dps. This design philosophy is ALREADY in the game. The only thing dual spec does is give MORE groups the ability to meet these requirements. The raid doesnt magically do double dps because everyone has a dual spec. While you can argue that they could POTENTIALLY do more dps now that they have the ability to change specs a bit depending on the fight...They can ALREADY do that...it just requires everyone going back to the fleet to do so. All dual spec does is let them do it more efficiently.

 

Once again, it's not giving us anything we can't already do, it's just making it so we waste less time doing it. This is the same reason that people drive to work instead of walking...it's not dumbing it down, it's making it more efficient.

 

But thats exactly the point. Want that extra dps...you have to sacrifice for it (time and credits in this case). Otherwise learn to use your head and beat the encounter in a less then ideal situation (which is possible unless group composition is totally messed up in the first place). Like i said before...this kind of thing leads to the betterment of the community as a whole in terms of skill and strategic thinking.

And yes, the devs did implement a way for you to respec...but the way its implemented makes it clear that they want your choice to matter and use this feature as a fail-safe rather then go willy-nilly with the specs. Otherwise it would have been at a significantly lower cost.

 

You're right, nobody NEEDS dual spec. But at the same time, they have the option to put in a feature that hurts NO ONE (you can still solo with your companions, solo your group quests, and do your low level flashpoints with your companions the same way you are now), and gives everyone else the ability to form groups more quickly, which means they spend LESS time sitting around doing nothing. Doing nothing is not fun.

 

Like i said in the first paragraph i think...this isnt about soloing or flashpoints at all... im sorry if i wasnt clear enough in my original post. Until there is statistical proof that there are not enough tanks/healers to easily support groups i dont think BW will implement it. There doesnt seem to be a lack of those roles so far. If it will be the case down the road im sure they will add the feature. If some people are having trouble grouping as it is, maybe the problem is at their end...they should at least consider that possibility.

Dual spec doesnt break the game, dumb it down, or make players stronger in and of itself. All it does is streamline the respec system that is in the game, so that less time is wasted.

 

I mentioned this above...respecing has a different role here...its not in the game to allow you to go willy-nilly with the specs. The devs have stated as much themselves.

 

Just on a side note, having people waste less time is the same reason we have sprint and speeders in the game...does anyon have any arguments on how THEY ruin the game?

 

Is there really a comparison to be made here. IRL we have cars and we can run...the proffesion thing is a bit trickier me thinks.

 

Answers in red. Also...this is in no way meant to convince you of anything nor was my original post. I can respect that you have your views and i have mine and we can agree to disagree. Im just giving arguments backing up my own views because i hate how some people think that they hold the truth and anyone with a different opinion is misguided or stupid ... not saying you are one of them.

[Kitten]

You guys do know you get your respec numbers reset every week right? This means 1 free respec every week.

 

Not huge, not dual-speccable, but atleast you can change it every now and again for free if you want to change 1 point.

[IronFirewind]

You guys do know you get your respec numbers reset every week right? This means 1 free respec every week.

 

Not huge, not dual-speccable, but atleast you can change it every now and again for free if you want to change 1 point.

 

This is wrong. I've been stuck at 45k for respecs for two weeks now.

[Pherdnut]

Okay, so for people who are against: what is it that dual spec actually does that detracts from your personal experience with the game?

 

Respec is easy/cheap enough to use that any priggish arguments about "committing to a role" seem kind of silly to me. It's an MMO, not somebody rearranging their character in the middle of a pen & paper game where roles have a lot more to do with actual narrative and non-combat and combat strengths often come from the same pool of choices.

 

How does another player swapping from a DPS to healer spec at the click of a button to get a group run moving faster do anything but help you out? Why is it important to you that people play through each class quest 6 times to have committed characters for every tree? Two times seems reasonable to me.

 

Believe me, as an instinctive curmudgeon I disliked it on first look. Then I ran into it in COH and realized I was being silly.

[RichW]

i vote no. i think its fine the way it is.

You cant have your cake and eat it too.

 

You want to play dps, make a dps character.

You want to be a healer, make a healer.

Etc

[eponymousbosch]

i vote no. i think its fine the way it is.

You cant have your cake and eat it too.

 

You want to play dps, make a dps character.

You want to be a healer, make a healer.

Etc

 

Not to be rude, but that's ridiculous.

 

The character I play the most is my Merc. I'm Pyro, but I'd like to do some healing on this character. It's one of the trees so why not.

 

They should, at least, make respecs super cheap so as not to penalize experimentation and speccing for group vs. solo play. Eventually, they absolutely need to add unlockable dual speccing.

[Gelantious]

Not to be rude, but that's ridiculous.

 

The character I play the most is my Merc. I'm Pyro, but I'd like to do some healing on this character. It's one of the trees so why not.

 

They should, at least, make respecs super cheap so as not to penalize experimentation and speccing for group vs. solo play. Eventually, they absolutely need to add unlockable dual speccing.

 

Stop being lazy.

They don't need to, nor should they ever add dual-specs because it makes the game too easy. And easy games are boring.

If you want to play a game where you can do everything yourself then there's plenty of singleplayer games for you.

 

And if you do want to heal then you can respec, but you have to pay the cost for your indecisiveness . Get used to it or go back to wow. Don't ruin this game as you did with that.

Not to mention that making credits at 50 is easy so unless your respeccing every 5 mins you won't have a problem with it.

[Asavar]

Actually.. Dual Spec is so wrong....

Feels like cheating to me.

Or more like spoiling people who cant choose and want everything easy.

 

If you want to tank... roll a tank.

If you want to healer ... roll a healer.

etc..

Whats wrong with creating 3 chars?...

 

And if you dont want to roll 3 chars... then you have to pay for the privilege of not having to level up 2-3 chars.

 

Sounds normal to me.

 

Being able to create 1 char that can fill 3 rolls on the fly is not only "to easy" ... its also just plain unrealistic (yes.. i said it.. unrealistic in a fantasy game!!)

 

But hey.. it'll probably be implemented cause there are more people wanting easy-play then there are people that want a challenge

 

 

 

Your opinion is law.

[ironix]

Actually.. Dual Spec is so wrong....

Feels like cheating to me.

Or more like spoiling people who cant choose and want everything easy.

 

If you want to tank... roll a tank.

If you want to healer ... roll a healer.

etc..

Whats wrong with creating 3 chars?...

 

And if you dont want to roll 3 chars... then you have to pay for the privilege of not having to level up 2-3 chars.

 

Sounds normal to me.

 

Being able to create 1 char that can fill 3 rolls on the fly is not only "to easy" ... its also just plain unrealistic (yes.. i said it.. unrealistic in a fantasy game!!)

 

But hey.. it'll probably be implemented cause there are more people wanting easy-play then there are people that want a challenge

 

Hell, along these lines, talent points should be an irreversible decision. Once you put points into a talent, you're stuck with that choice! If you picked healing talents but later decide you don't like it, reroll! =p

[Freyar]

Hell, along these lines, talent points should be an irreversible decision. Once you put points into a talent, you're stuck with that choice! If you picked healing talents but later decide you don't like it, reroll! =p

 

There needs to be a significant investment to changing those points. If a dual-spec system were put in place, I would want the act of switching between the two to be expensive. People are trying to run one character as two, and that's just lame.

[Elkard]

Here's a hanky, dry your tears. it will happen...sooner or later...all the whiners will help ruin this game as they did the others.

[Dralzar]

Dual spec or capped respec costs?

 

/sign