Please allow dual spec or cap respec costs.

[genesiser]

So if I'm reading right, people don't want dual spec because it makes the game too easy?

 

What makes a game hard, leveling up a whole new character? That's not "hard" that's a complete waste of time. When you choose a class you see the roles it can perform. I chose my class BECAUSE it can do two different roles. (heal or dps)

 

The difficulty shouldn't be leveling up a new char to perform a different role, and it definitely shouldn't be difficult because you have to farm up cash in order to pay for respecs. The difficulty should be acquiring two different sets of gear so you can actually perform different roles.

[ferroz]

That's exactly what these people want. See class x? Yeah, they can do DPS and (tank|heal).

Eh, they want to bring the player, not the character.

[MajikMyst]

I just dont understand the reasoning behind people against dual spec. There is a thing called pvp in the game and I dont do PVE with same spec I do PVP. I want to have 2 specs so that I can switch my spec accordingly.

 

And that is your choice.. Bioware made this game so you could PVP in your PVE spec.. They also gave you companions.. Which also can fill any role.. Tank, healer, or DPS.. So I fail to see why they should add a feature because you made a choice.. There is no PVP spec in this game.. There simply isn't..

 

Nobody needs dual speccing.. They simply don't.. Learn to fight in the spec you are and learn to use your companions..

 

I just don't understand the reasoning behind people that want dual speccing..

[GarbonzotheDude]

So if I'm reading right, people don't want dual spec because it makes the game too easy?

 

What makes a game hard, leveling up a whole new character?

 

Actually, my favorite reasoning they use is this ridiculous notion that allowing dual specialization will cause the developers to dumb down the mechanics and design of group content.

 

It is one of the most idiotic notions I have come across in some time. Really reaching with that one.

[MajikMyst]

So if I'm reading right, people don't want dual spec because it makes the game too easy?

 

What makes a game hard, leveling up a whole new character? That's not "hard" that's a complete waste of time.

 

Meh?? Why play an MMO if not to waste our time?? I would just call it laziness.. To lazy to level alts of different specs and types.. That is all part of playing the game.. Why should anyone be allowed to have an all in one character?? There is a vendor that allows you to reset your talent tree.. For a fee of course.. I see no reason to change that..

[Kanharn]

Actually.. Dual Spec is so wrong....

Feels like cheating to me.

Or more like spoiling people who cant choose and want everything easy.

 

If you want to tank... roll a tank.

If you want to healer ... roll a healer.

etc..

Whats wrong with creating 3 chars?...

 

And if you dont want to roll 3 chars... then you have to pay for the privilege of not having to level up 2-3 chars.

 

Sounds normal to me.

 

Being able to create 1 char that can fill 3 rolls on the fly is not only "to easy" ... its also just plain unrealistic (yes.. i said it.. unrealistic in a fantasy game!!)

 

But hey.. it'll probably be implemented cause there are more people wanting easy-play then there are people that want a challenge

 

Agreed, Noobs love Duel spec and people who cant play the role they picked always cry for cheaper repecs.

[Kanharn]

And that is your choice.. Bioware made this game so you could PVP in your PVE spec.. They also gave you companions.. Which also can fill any role.. Tank, healer, or DPS.. So I fail to see why they should add a feature because you made a choice.. There is no PVP spec in this game.. There simply isn't..

 

Nobody needs dual speccing.. They simply don't.. Learn to fight in the spec you are and learn to use your companions..

 

I just don't understand the reasoning behind people that want dual speccing..

 

This comment wins the thread. Next people will want a Bioware employee to play the game for them.

[MajikMyst]

Actually, my favorite reasoning they use is this ridiculous notion that allowing dual specialization will cause the developers to dumb down the mechanics and design of group content.

 

It is one of the most idiotic notions I have come across in some time. Really reaching with that one.

 

Why is it dumb?? Makes sense if you think about it.. Without dual speccing they can at least count on a group makup.. X number of tanks and healers with Y number of DPS.. So they design encounters around those basic numbers.. With dual speccing.. Those numbers don't really exist.. You can't count on a specific number of specialized roles.. So it will change how raid encounters are developed.. We all saw what it did to WOW.. People are now one shotting raids within the first week of the raids release.. I can remember spending months on just one boss in the old days.. Oh.. But that was before dual speccing too..

Edited January 9, 2012 by MajikMyst

[Lethality]

^

 

Absolutely this

 

And people will quit over it, you want people to quit the game just so you can have some old-school crap that nobody wants? It doesn't matter if the tree is 150% viable, I'd not want to tank in PvP even if it were completely overpowered because in PvP I want to kill stuff.

 

Want me to quit the game rather than just bend your stupid MMO-Dogma?

 

The number of them who quit for THIS REASON? Paltry, at best. Not even measurable.

[Sodalazer]

jesus christ, i cant believe people are actually against this.

 

hey, you guys, the ones who are against this.

 

do you cook food on an oven

do you live in a house?

 

or do you much prefer that dark cave that you say is perfectly fine.

 

who needs something that would clearly make your life better when this cave is just as great as it is "throws another log on the fire to cook that sweet delicious roadkill"

 

stupid wow people, trying to improve the game.

Edited January 9, 2012 by Sodalazer

[DaxRendar]

And that is your choice.. Bioware made this game so you could PVP in your PVE spec.. They also gave you companions.. Which also can fill any role.. Tank, healer, or DPS.. So I fail to see why they should add a feature because you made a choice.. There is no PVP spec in this game.. There simply isn't..

 

Nobody needs dual speccing.. They simply don't.. Learn to fight in the spec you are and learn to use your companions..

 

I just don't understand the reasoning behind people that want dual speccing..

 

See my post at the bottom of page 84.

 

Explain to me why I should have to heal in PvP - it's not the same role or the same game.

 

(And while you are at it, explain to me how my having Dual Spec hurts your gameplay in any way)

[Lethality]

I just dont understand the reasoning behind people against dual spec. There is a thing called pvp in the game and I dont do PVE with same spec I do PVP. I want to have 2 specs so that I can switch my spec accordingly.

 

Would you care to take a moment and explain the specific differences between your PvE and PvP spec?

[HoneyBoy]

This comment wins the thread. Next people will want a Bioware employee to play the game for them.

 

I have browsed through this thread and this is the majority of what I see from the anti-dual spec crowd. More hyperbole, strawman, and fallacies.

 

Care to explain how me having dual spec harms your personal enjoyment of the game other than your need to dictate how I play?

[Varghjerta]

jesus christ, i cant believe people are actually against this.

 

hey, you guys, the ones who are against this.

 

do you cook food on an oven

do you live in a house?

 

or do you much prefer that dark cave that you say is perfectly fine.

 

who needs something that would clearly make your life better when this cave is just as great as it is "throws another log on the fire to cook that sweet delicious roadkill"

 

stupid wow people, trying to improve the game.

 

Do you think that every place that serve hamburgers should taste and look exactly like mcdonalds aswell then?

[Lethality]

See my post at the bottom of page 84.

 

Explain to me why I should have to heal in PvP - it's not the same role or the same game.

 

(And while you are at it, explain to me how my having Dual Spec hurts your gameplay in any way)

 

One of the problems with this discussion is there are two moving targets.

 

You have the PvE/PvP debate and the Trinity Role debate. BioWare has already clearly verbalized that they don't view the need for separate specs for PvE and PvP, so that's off the list.

 

The trinity role issue is only slightly more valid, and only because a subset of players insist on being "optimal", as opposed to being "capable" of the role.

 

So in any case, BioWare currently gives you the flexibility to play this way if you want. You can go from a PvE Healer to PvP Damage Dealer just by visiting a Skill Mentor. I just don't see/agree with the need to make that an even easier, simpler, less costly decision.

[DaxRendar]

Why is it dumb?? Makes sense if you think about it.. Without dual speccing they can at least count on a group makup.. X number of tanks and healers with Y number of DPS.. So they design encounters around those basic numbers.. With dual speccing.. Those numbers don't really exist.. You can't count on a specific number of specialized roles.. So it will change how raid encounters are developed.. We all saw what it did to WOW.. People are now one shotting raids within the first week of the raids release.. I can remember spending months on just one boss in the old days.. Oh.. But that was before dual speccing too..

 

This is COMPLETELY invalid.

 

Hardcore Guilds in WoW were sending their raiders out to respec in between Encounters in Vanilla loooong before Dual Spec ever came along.

 

Less hardcore guilds struggled to assemble the proper Group Compositions before it.

 

And people are now one-shotting raids because they put most of the raid up in the PTR for a month before it goes live so everybody can follow the "DBM Dance of the Lemmings" the day it is released

 

Correlation <> Causation

[Sodalazer]

Do you think that every place that serve hamburgers should taste and look exactly like mcdonalds aswell then?

 

i would want it the other way around, i'd rather drink poison then eat a meal at MCdonalds.

[HoneyBoy]

One of the problems with this discussion is there are two moving targets.

 

You have the PvE/PvP debate and the Trinity Role debate. BioWare has already clearly verbalized that they don't view the need for separate specs for PvE and PvP, so that's off the list.

 

The trinity role issue is only slightly more valid, and only because a subset of players insist on being "optimal", as opposed to being "capable" of the role.

 

So in any case, BioWare currently gives you the flexibility to play this way if you want. You can go from a PvE Healer to PvP Damage Dealer just by visiting a Skill Mentor. I just don't see/agree with the need to make that an even easier, simpler, less costly decision.

 

Why?...

 

Dual speccing will only add more potential tanks and healers to the pool of already diminished tanks and healers. I have made enough money off of early slicing to respec quite a few times. At this point re-picking my skill points and setting up my action bars again is just tedious and serves no other purpose besides being tedious. What would be so wrong with me having the ability to have a second spec that saved my skill points and my bar configurations?

[DaxRendar]

You have the PvE/PvP debate and the Trinity Role debate. BioWare has already clearly verbalized that they don't view the need for separate specs for PvE and PvP, so that's off the list.

 

So in any case, BioWare currently gives you the flexibility to play this way if you want. You can go from a PvE Healer to PvP Damage Dealer just by visiting a Skill Mentor. I just don't see/agree with the need to make that an even easier, simpler, less costly decision.

 

Off the list huh?

 

Very disappointed in you Lethality over that. Gameplay is completely different in Warzones. There is nothing remotely "roleplay-focused" about them. You auto-magically teleport in from anywhere in the galaxy, and you auto-magically teleport out. Level 50 PvP Gear uses Stats that don't matter at all in PvE. I know what BioWare said they wanted... but they failed, badly.

 

Maybe your favorite thing to do in Huttball is to zone in and /emote chat with your friends in RP clothes, but that is most definitely the one part of the game that should support competitive play - they are session-based mini-games for crying out loud!

[MajikMyst]

See my post at the bottom of page 84.

 

Explain to me why I should have to heal in PvP - it's not the same role or the same game.

 

(And while you are at it, explain to me how my having Dual Spec hurts your gameplay in any way)

 

I explained that in a number of posts.. Just not the one you quoted.. Please see the last few pages...

 

See no reason you should have heal or not heal.. But it is your choice.. I see no reason why people can't just PVP in the roles they chose for PVE?? Again, this is an issue of choice.. Why should a feature be added to allow you to be a combet medic one moment, and then a sniper the next?? You chose your path.. Why shouldn't you be forced to live it??

 

There is no reason that you can't DPS in your healing spec either.. Again.. People really need to learn to play the game..

 

Dual speccing hurts the game in general.. Anyone has to look no further than WOW to see what dual speccing has done..

 

Dual speccing decreases the skill level of the community at large.. It is why pugs for the most part a bad idea in WOW.. Even worse when their cross server LFG system was added..

 

Other than laziness.. There is simply no need for dual speccing in this game.. We have companions that can full multiple roles.. Your character is viable in any situation as any spec.. Just because you are spec heals.. Doesn't mean you have to heal.. You have lost of dps skills as well.. I was unaware that a trooper healer put away his gun when he became a healer..

[hulduet]

It's a problem with mob scaling, not classes. They clearly dropped the ball on balancing certain mobs at 30-40+. You're not suppose to respec just to defeat a monster. Just make yourself heard and it'll be fixed eventually.

 

Has nothing to do with your class/spec, it's the mobs that are the problem here.

[Sodalazer]

I explained that in a number of posts.. Just not the one you quoted.. Please see the last few pages...

 

See no reason you should have heal or not heal.. But it is your choice.. I see no reason why people can't just PVP in the roles they chose for PVE?? Again, this is an issue of choice.. Why should a feature be added to allow you to be a combet medic one moment, and then a sniper the next?? You chose your path.. Why shouldn't you be forced to live it??

 

There is no reason that you can't DPS in your healing spec either.. Again.. People really need to learn to play the game..

 

Dual speccing hurts the game in general.. Anyone has to look no further than WOW to see what dual speccing has done..

 

Dual speccing decreases the skill level of the community at large.. It is why pugs for the most part a bad idea in WOW.. Even worse when their cross server LFG system was added..

 

Other than laziness.. There is simply no need for dual speccing in this game.. We have companions that can full multiple roles.. Your character is viable in any situation as any spec.. Just because you are spec heals.. Doesn't mean you have to heal.. You have lost of dps skills as well.. I was unaware that a trooper healer put away his gun when he became a healer..

 

if someone came into my group as "dps" with a heal spec, i would shove my foot up their *** and kick em the hell out.

 

i would much rather have a competent dps then people having to run hybrid specs because they are so broke they cant even respec.

Edited January 9, 2012 by Sodalazer

[HoneyBoy]

I explained that in a number of posts.. Just not the one you quoted.. Please see the last few pages...

 

See no reason you should have heal or not heal.. But it is your choice.. I see no reason why people can't just PVP in the roles they chose for PVE?? Again, this is an issue of choice.. Why should a feature be added to allow you to be a combet medic one moment, and then a sniper the next?? You chose your path.. Why shouldn't you be forced to live it??

 

There is no reason that you can't DPS in your healing spec either.. Again.. People really need to learn to play the game..

 

Dual speccing hurts the game in general.. Anyone has to look no further than WOW to see what dual speccing has done..

 

Dual speccing decreases the skill level of the community at large.. It is why pugs for the most part a bad idea in WOW.. Even worse when their cross server LFG system was added..

 

Other than laziness.. There is simply no need for dual speccing in this game.. We have companions that can full multiple roles.. Your character is viable in any situation as any spec.. Just because you are spec heals.. Doesn't mean you have to heal.. You have lost of dps skills as well.. I was unaware that a trooper healer put away his gun when he became a healer..

 

I put the baseless accusations and embellishments in bold underline and italics.

 

To address everything else:

 

Companions are not viable substitutes for hard mode flashpoints.

If I'm a Sith Sorceror but not specced healing, there's no way I'm anything but a handicap to my group if I'm playing the healer role in a hard mode flashpoint, but hey if you're ever going to run hard mode Black Talon I'll be happy to heal for your group in my DPS spec

Please think outside of your single player/class storyline mindset.

Edited January 9, 2012 by HoneyBoy

[HoneyBoy]

It's a problem with mob scaling, not classes. They clearly dropped the ball on balancing certain mobs at 30-40+. You're not suppose to respec just to defeat a monster. Just make yourself heard and it'll be fixed eventually.

 

Has nothing to do with your class/spec, it's the mobs that are the problem here.

 

This isn't a question about this games difficulty or a specs viability.

 

It's about a group of people who want more freedom in their choices on how to play this game and what roles they want to fill in a group setting, and another group of people who are staunchly against that for personal reasons.

[DaxRendar]

There is no reason that you can't DPS in your healing spec either.. Again.. People really need to learn to play the game..

 

And we'll see just how many Operations Groups want you with them when you DPS in a Healing Spec