Please allow dual spec or cap respec costs.

[Varghjerta]

Personal preference? Why is it so hard to accept that other people don't play the game in the exact same manner and/or with the exact same goals in mind as others? For many people, the ability to vary playstyles on the same character is fun. That type of variation can lead to player retention.

 

So you want the game to adapt to youre playstyle instead that you should adapt to the game?

[Sendrel]

So you want the game to adapt to youre playstyle instead that you should adapt to the game?

 

I want the game to adopt a feature that I think it would benefit from. I've adapted just fine. I appreciate your concern though.

[Warlocc]

As an Immortal spec Sith Juggernaut, I think I'm going to say +1 for dual specs.

 

I enjoy tanking in groups. I enjoy the play style, and I enjoy the utility (not to mention being in demand for groups).

 

Solo play, however, becomes a pain. I have pathetic DPS. Terrible. Can't kill an elite on my own.

 

So in class quests, when you start seeing elites and silvers together, it becomes a serious chore. Now I have to choose- do I bring a DPS companion, kill quick, and recover from 10%-25% health after every fight (or die after every fight that doesn't allow downtime between battles- Jaesa mission, I'm looking at you), or do I bring a healer and take 5 minutes just to kill a trash group, hoping Quinn can keep me up against the boss/elites that long?

 

If I could switch to the DPS or hybrid spec for those solo class quests, it would be a seriously appreciated QoL thing.

[DeathHenk]

As an Immortal spec Sith Juggernaut, I think I'm going to say +1 for dual specs.

 

I enjoy tanking in groups. I enjoy the play style, and I enjoy the utility (not to mention being in demand for groups).

 

Solo play, however, becomes a pain. I have pathetic DPS. Terrible. Can't kill an elite on my own.

 

So in class quests, when you start seeing elites and silvers together, it becomes a serious chore. Now I have to choose- do I bring a DPS companion, kill quick, and recover from 10%-25% health after every fight (or die after every fight that doesn't allow downtime between battles- Jaesa mission, I'm looking at you), or do I bring a healer and take 5 minutes just to kill a trash group, hoping Quinn can keep me up against the boss/elites that long?

 

If I could switch to the DPS or hybrid spec for those solo class quests, it would be a seriously appreciated QoL thing.

 

Nononono, I dont want you to be able to change things to your character. How you change your character completely destroys my immersion in the game. Make up your mind braw. One choice, forever made.

 

Sorry if I made you angry, I was being cynical.

[ghostin]

I hope Bioware does not allow Dual Spec. It made guilds spoiled in Wow. GLs would expect their members to go and do this at a ridiculous rate whenever new raids came up. I believe that if you want to switch roles then pay for it, or reroll. There are multiple classes that can fill the same role.

[MackSevenThree]

I am 100% for dual-spec

 

 

Here's my experiences.

 

- Rolled a Bounty Hunter. Thought I would like Powertech. Wanted to try out being a tank. Hated it.

 

- Rerolled a Bounty Hunter and picked Merc. I have no problem with putting in a couple hours to get to level 10 again.

 

- I really enjoy playing a healer. I started with a Merc Healer build. But the PVE game play is way too much work. I have a healer companion (Mako) which is no help as a DPS/Tank. 2 healers = WTH

 

- Re-spec'd to Arsenal for DPS. PVE is a ton better. I can level at a good pace and the game flows very well.

 

NOW Here's my Dilema -

 

I WANT to be a healer (flashpoints/herioc), but PVE play is so tedious I would have stopped playing unless I respec'd. DPS is great for my PVE and leveling - so what the hell do I do?

 

If I can respec easily/cheaply - I would love to play DPS for PVE and switch to a healer for group play.

 

So right now I try to play a healer with an Arsenal spec - but the results are simply frustrating...........

[Lethality]

Loot requires you play the game and do well to get it.

 

Does it really, though? This is no different.

 

The cap would work just like a crafting level cap. New players could always catch up if they commit to it. But if they constantly change specs, then it will be much harder.

Edited January 9, 2012 by Lethality

[Lethality]

As an Immortal spec Sith Juggernaut, I think I'm going to say +1 for dual specs.

 

I enjoy tanking in groups. I enjoy the play style, and I enjoy the utility (not to mention being in demand for groups).

 

Solo play, however, becomes a pain. I have pathetic DPS. Terrible. Can't kill an elite on my own.

 

So in class quests, when you start seeing elites and silvers together, it becomes a serious chore. Now I have to choose- do I bring a DPS companion, kill quick, and recover from 10%-25% health after every fight (or die after every fight that doesn't allow downtime between battles- Jaesa mission, I'm looking at you), or do I bring a healer and take 5 minutes just to kill a trash group, hoping Quinn can keep me up against the boss/elites that long?

 

If I could switch to the DPS or hybrid spec for those solo class quests, it would be a seriously appreciated QoL thing.

 

I'll say it again.

 

You know you can already respec, right?

 

I think alot of people are missing that point.

[Arzalch]

So your argument against dual spec is because I'm too lazy to make a choice?

 

I made an fit just for you but I guess you get the point.

[zootzoot]

I hope Bioware does not allow Dual Spec. It made guilds spoiled in Wow. GLs would expect their members to go and do this at a ridiculous rate whenever new raids came up. I believe that if you want to switch roles then pay for it, or reroll. There are multiple classes that can fill the same role.

 

You have it bass ackwards actually

 

Dual spec meant that Raid leaders could have regular Raiders switch roles when needed rather than be sat for the needed role which really sucked.

 

So on a fight that needs less healers you could have one of your regular healers go DPS and not miss the fight as opposed to picking one of the healers to sit in order to bring in a bench DPS.

 

Dual spec was a godsend to Raiding. If you've never done progression raiding you wouldn't understand obviously.

Edited January 9, 2012 by zootzoot

[Durio]

So you want the game to adapt to youre playstyle instead that you should adapt to the game?

 

You want the game to stay this way? Wow i can already see the noumbers dropping.

 

There is no reasoning against dual spec, there are no arguments against it and BW is going to implement it even if there was a poll where 80% would be against it.

 

I wanna see how you cry once people start buying credits because respeccing is anti-fun (which is the whole reason why the newer generation plays MMOs)

 

Veterans dying out and I can't wait to see how the newer MMO generations give no platform for old griefing anti-newage people.

 

Hey,

 

Been a while since I posted, as you can imagine, we're a bit busy right now.

 

However, we're still actively monitoring the forums and venues of player feedback, collecting information helpful to prioritize the feature development, issues, etc.

 

On the topic of skill respecs, we are aware that it is a popular request to have more versatility in how and when to respec (which includes questions of cost) and we've already decided to pursue the idea of more readily available respecs for players. Pricing changes are also very much under consideration.

 

Just so you understand my position on the topic: I don't think skill respec should be rare or handled very restrictively. I'm actually all for players experimenting with different skill sets once they have a good grip of their character.

 

I don't want people to respec in the middle of combat or in between defeats in a Warzone or Operation, but other than that, I think respec is a positive thing for the game. If we find that the current pricing is too prohibitive for somewhat experienced players, we'll make adjustments.

 

regards

-- Georg

Edited January 9, 2012 by Durio

[Lethality]

You want the game to stay this way? Wow i can already see the noumbers dropping.

 

There is no reasoning against dual spec, there are no arguments against it and BW is going to implement it even if there was a poll where 80% would be against it.

 

I wanna see how you cry once people start buying credits because respeccing is anti-fun (which is the whole reason why the newer generation plays MMOs)

 

Veterans dying out and I can't wait to see how the newer MMO generations give no platform for old griefing anti-newage people.

 

Not sure what you're trying to say there... but there has been plenty of reasoning - real reasoning - against the idea of a dual-spec. You can already change specs. That's enough.

[silverprovidence]

They should invert the costs really. Make it more expensive the less you do it. That way if your a frequent respeccer chances are youll still be spending more than the person who comfortably makes use of one spec for long periods of time, but it still encourages rather than deters experimentation and is a viable credit sink for everyone rather than a nonissue for some people and a massive black hole of a sink for others. Edited January 9, 2012 by silverprovidence

[RAMunch]

You want the game to stay this way? Wow i can already see the noumbers dropping.

 

There is no reasoning against dual spec, there are no arguments against it and BW is going to implement it even if there was a poll where 80% would be against it.

 

I wanna see how you cry once people start buying credits because respeccing is anti-fun (which is the whole reason why the newer generation plays MMOs)

 

Veterans dying out and I can't wait to see how the newer MMO generations give no platform for old griefing anti-newage people.

 

If the newer generation has it there way there will be no specing as having to even flip between them, or pay for the ability to dual spec ruins their fun.

 

The rate MMOS are going you will be max level within an hour of playing it and everyone will be able to heal, dps, and tank equally as well. Dont' believe me look at it.

 

Leveling time: Has gotten quicker and quicker with every game, it's getting so quick now that it's hardly noticable getting to max level. If it only takes me like 30 hours play time to get to max level, why bother even having me do it in the first place? I literally leveld to 30 on one server, found friends on another server, rerolled and never cried about it...the leveling was so quick that even working 60 hour weeks, having a wife, and kid I still didn't bat an eye at getting back to 30 in no time (i got to 20 in sub 12 hours). They give you so much experience for doing the most minor things in this game it's ridiculous. Rested Experience + Huttball win = 1/3rd level sub 20 and I can queue for it while i'm grinding experience.

 

Specialization being marginalized: This point is 2 fold, one with cheap respeccing and dual specs, specs basically mean nothing. It's now the equivalent of me having to change out of my pajamas to goto work to fill a different role in a raid...as it becomes easier and easier to flip flop the flip flop will go away and you'll just be both healer and dps, or dps and tank, or everyone will be everything. The other point here is hybrids that complain they need to be as good as their pure class counterparts at whatever it is they do, again as this line gets blurred along with dual speccing you basically won't have classes anymore, you'll choose what costumes you want to wear and then go play hack and slash call of duty.

 

Lack of social aspects: Dungeon finders, anything that teleports you to your experience/quest pharm and then back to where you were. This basically makes the game nothing more than Dungeons and Dragons meets Quake/COD/etc there really isn't a world, it's a series of maps. My children will probably laugh when I tell them that MMOs use to be worlds that you could walk across as they just queue up for whatever maps have their quest is, just like choosing a map rotation on a CS server or something now days.

 

Crafting getting easier: Heck now you don't even have to invest time into crafting that's right it takes ZERO time from a human to craft, so that only leaves credits and money basically is pooped out by everything. I'm pretty sure my guy makes 100credits just for brushing his teeth. People were complaining about how expensive the mount was, i thought "yes, something to work for" i bought my mount at 25, all my skills, and my crafting skill (armstech) was leveled to my level...and that was without using slicing pre-nerf, I'd hate to see how easy it was for those guys.

 

The entire game is just so easy now it's no fun, there is no sense of satisfaction. I get the same amount of satisfaction out of accomplishing anything in this game (i use the term accomplishment as loosely as possible) as I would at winning a dodge ball game against a bunch of 3rd graders. For me, and many others, games are fun when they are satisfying. Having some game I turn on that says "Yay you win! thanks for your money" isn't fun, or enjoyable, or satisfying...which is basically what every MMO is turning into.

 

End game content...get holy trinity, have a pulse, have an hour to spare....done. I bet I can have my 7 year old play for me and do fine in anything but the hardest FPs.

 

You compare time investment and difficulty of any MMO from EQ to before it to any MMO made in the past few years, then extrapolate that out over the next 10 years, assuming nothing changes....you'll literally just have to type in your character name and do the tutorial to be at max level.

 

I'm sorry i don't have as much time as I use to as now i have a family and other responsibilities, but when I do scrounge up an hour or two to play I want it to feel like it takes a bit more work, brain power, and skill to accomplish something than is necessary to say mix concrete or dig a hole. If I wanted entertainment that didn't require thinking I'd watch a movie...probably something in the twilight saga to make sure there isn't a single brain cell left firing. :-)

[RAMunch]

They should invert the costs really. Make it more expensive the less you do it. That way if your a frequent respeccer chances are youll still be spending more than the person who comfortably makes use of one spec for long periods of time, but it still encourages rather than deters experimentation and is a viable credit sink for everyone rather than a nonissue for some people and a massive black hole of a sink for others.

 

Not a bad idea either.

 

I think that if changing your spec has to be in as so many people think it does, there should be a reward/benefit/encouragement to NOT change your spec.

 

If you've stuck it out with one spec while someone else has changed 50 times, regardless of their reasoning, you should get some benefit for it...

They get a benefit for switching (easier to get into groups, do content that they couldn't with their other spec etc). There should be an equal benefit to NOT respeccing or dual speccing.

 

 

if my heals were 25% better than some dps that just dual specced Healing, i'd be 100% find with everyone having dual spec.

If my Damage Mitigation was 25% better than some DPS that just switched to tank spec to fill a need for his guild because I'd never switched spec...heck yea...go for it.

 

It should not be strategically advantageous to constantly change your mind, just like dying on purpose as a form of fast travel shouldn't be a reasonable consideration (but it is in this game, I do it all the time if my cool down is up) the dying cost are so magrinable why not, it's like a free TP if you are in the right spot.

 

being rewarded for changing your spec constantly is as absurd as gaining xp for dying. (i'm waiting for that feature btw)

[trajic]

Title says it all. At level 42 if i were to respec it would cost me over 100k credits. Thats seems outrageous to me (at least at this level).

 

I LOVE to tank for groups, but as most people have noticed tanks actually do poor damage in this game when compared to others.When soloing, I know that to compensate for this you bring a dps companion. However while encountering say a double silver-double reg pull, you will most likely be popping CDs just to survive because you still take a fair amount of damage even when your in full defense gear. To counter this you would bring a healer companion... but now your taking almost 3 minutes for the same pull...

 

If I wanted to mission faster I could go a dps spec and get things done, yet my group utility would be confined to that of a dps. Which is something that I do not care for.

 

That puts me in a predicament where I have to stay tank and watch everyone out level me just because they can do things twice as fast.

 

Another situation would be someone who plays pve utility (healer/tank) and likes to pvp as well. Constant respecs, or one of those aspects is going to suffer.

 

The only logical fix to this situation if to either cap the cost of respeccing or allow players to indulge in multiple specs.

 

I thought they were thinking about doing the dual spec. Your right , this is 2012 now, we dont live in ancient times where people had to reroll just to play a different part of thier character (healing/dps). Its smart for buisness to give people variety without the pointless grind.

[RAMunch]

That risks losing subscribers, I don't think they'd want that.

 

 

 

They can already do that.

 

Your feelings or anyone else's is not a valid argument, it doesn't break or imbalance the game, you just get upset.

 

 

 

No No No No.

 

Giving an advantage for time spent in a particular spec will be game breaking, see my previous posts. Cosmetic advantages, don't care, you can have them if it keeps you happy but no skill or stat advantages.

 

I'm confused here.

 

If feelings aren't valid arguements, then the fact that you feel like you need dual spec is invalid right?

 

It is a fact you do NOT need it.

Can you load up the game and play it without it? yes

Can you do all of the content in the game? yes...you might have to find other to do it, but you can.

The fact is you WANT dual spec, and wants are based on feelings, not needs.

 

If you can show me how it is 100% impossible (Impossible, not hard, not unlikely, IMPOSSIBLE) to do anything in this game without changing the current spec system, then you can say you NEED it.

 

Please don't act like you are superior and that you're wants are somehow better than my wants, or that you are more entitled to them than anyone else.

 

The fact is everyone wanting dual spec is based on feelings just as much as those that don't. They FEEL like they need the perfect spec for the content at hand, whether it's they can't have 2 tank specs in a raid, they need the perfect PvP spec, they don't want to solo as a healer. it is 100% FACT that these things are not needed, it's a want. So if you don't want me bringing my feelings to the table, please don't brings yours.

 

Why can an advantage not be given for not dual speccing?

An advantage is given FOR dual speccing...if we want to balance it then both options should have equal benefits. The benefit for dual specer is that they can fill more class roles and get in more groups than someone that does, benefits for non dual speccer they are better at whatever role they fill...that seems fair to me. Having some title or cosmetic difference is NOT fair. Dual speccer directly gets a gameplay benefit that increases their abilty to gain access to in game content...this is not a cosmetic advantage and thus the non dual speccer should get a non cosmetic advantage as well. I don't care what the advantage is, just as long as it is equally effecting on gameplay....increasing chance of rare drops, higher credit drops, better stats, exclusive skills, whatever.

[zootzoot]

Not sure what you're trying to say there... but there has been plenty of reasoning - real reasoning - against the idea of a dual-spec. You can already change specs. That's enough.

 

Sorry but I have yet to see one argument that wasn't based on personal feelings about how people should play. I've heard you state that it would somehow impact the design of the game with nothing to back that statement up.

 

The idea that choices should matter keeps popping up when that just isn't the case with MMO's. Even Bioware has backed away from the hard choices concept when they made Dark Corruption optional and took away the ability to kill our companions.

 

A spec is not a class. We have made the one irreversible choice in the game...we chose our AC. The spec is amorphous.

 

Besides this is moot because there was a dev post about spec choices which alluded to changes forthcoming.

[RamataKahn]

I think that if changing your spec has to be in as so many people think it does, there should be a reward/benefit/encouragement to NOT change your spec.

 

No there shouldn't, and there never will be.

[silverprovidence]

Not a bad idea either.

 

I think that if changing your spec has to be in as so many people think it does, there should be a reward/benefit/encouragement to NOT change your spec.

 

If you've stuck it out with one spec while someone else has changed 50 times, regardless of their reasoning, you should get some benefit for it...

They get a benefit for switching (easier to get into groups, do content that they couldn't with their other spec etc). There should be an equal benefit to NOT respeccing or dual speccing.

 

 

if my heals were 25% better than some dps that just dual specced Healing, i'd be 100% find with everyone having dual spec.

If my Damage Mitigation was 25% better than some DPS that just switched to tank spec to fill a need for his guild because I'd never switched spec...heck yea...go for it.

 

It should not be strategically advantageous to constantly change your mind, just like dying on purpose as a form of fast travel shouldn't be a reasonable consideration (but it is in this game, I do it all the time if my cool down is up) the dying cost are so magrinable why not, it's like a free TP if you are in the right spot.

 

being rewarded for changing your spec constantly is as absurd as gaining xp for dying. (i'm waiting for that feature btw)

 

I would have thought the whole 'different gear sets' thing would have been enough of an incentive. I mean while there isnt any means currently to seriously measure the effect of secondary stats some things are certainly better. You seem mainly focused on healer/dps difference as the primary issue here, that of switching roles rather than also factoring in the changing of dps skill points.

 

A healing sorcerer for example, in my view, would view gear with alracity as a stat far more favourably than a madness sorcerer. Without that other gearset (of which if your talking endgame its unlikely for a good long while unless you get stupidly lucky with drops and group composition) you are effectively taking that effectiveness nerf you desire. The same for tanking. A tank respeccing to dps without the gear would still be using defence/shield statted gear. Again an effectiveness nerf.

 

Likewise people who tend to sit in one spec all the time (mostly dps though over time we may or may not see variances in this game depending on endgame activities and companions place in them) benefit from a single gearset, and in the dps case they can bank on the effectiveness of sitting in one spec over a person who heals or tanks and would be comparatively gimped in their ability to handle content speedily.

 

Plus the consideration of solo activities, if a player desires to swap between roles to benefit a group then considering the above I dont feel prohibitive credit costs need be a factor because the game is already set up in a way that minimum fuss is exhibitied by sitting in a single spec. In my view the gear penalty is enough without the credit penalty, at least invert the cost as I suggsted above to equal it out because there is severe benefits to sitting in a single spec at this point in time in terms of ease of gameplay.

Edited January 9, 2012 by silverprovidence

[Lethality]

No there shouldn't, and there never will be.

 

I say there should, and there will.

 

See how that works?

[RAMunch]

I would have thought the whole 'different gear sets' thing would have been enough of an incentive. I mean while there isnt any means currently to seriously measure the effect of secondary stats some things are certainly better. You seem mainly focused on healer/dps difference as the primary issue here, that of switching roles rather than also factoring in the changing of dps skill points.

 

A healing sorcerer for example, in my view, would view gear with alracity as a stat far more favourably than a madness sorcerer. Without that other gearset (of which if your talking endgame its unlikely for a good long while unless you get stupidly lucky with drops and group composition) you are effectively taking that effectiveness nerf you desire.

 

Likewise people who tend to sit in one spec all the time (mostly dps though over time we may or may not see variances in this game depending on endgame activities and companions place in them) benefit from a single gearset, and in the dps case they can bank on the effectiveness of sitting in one spec over a person who heals or tanks and would be comparatively gimped in their ability to handle content speedily.

 

Plus the consideration of solo activities, if a player desires to swap between roles to benefit a group then considering the above I dont feel prohibitive credit costs need be a factor because the game is already set up in a way that minimum fuss is exhibitied by sitting in a single spec.

 

DPS/Healer is just one i think is flipped most often, though in this game from the looks of the LFG calls it might be DPS/Tank as I see lots of needs for a tank.

 

Without something to give us a better grasps of the impacts I don't think that the stats is enough. I'm an operative and for me cunning makes me better at dps and healing, so when my spec flips my gear is really just as good. Now things like power/alacrity etc might be more useful in one than another but they also don't become useless.

 

I see your point though about the gear, as someone not needing to support 2 specs only needs 1 set of gear...it costs half as much (time, credits etc). However since you can switch specs on a whim, the dual speccer will get into more groups there by increasing their chances at gear rolls etc. I'd say that comes out in the wash...they may need more but they get more chances at it, single speccer needs less but gets less chances at it.

 

So i can't fully deny that there isn't an advantage there as we are unsure of how much the secondary stats help, but i don't think we can say that there is truely an advantage there either. However dual speccing for pve group puproses does give you the clear advantage of doubling your chances at getting a group since you have 2 roles you can fill freely.

 

Dual speccing for pve solo versus group and dual speccing for pvp versus pve I think can be addressed with allowing dual spec, but the game forcing it (automatically switch to your chosen secondary spec when you enter warzone, or when you become only person in group).

[Warlocc]

I'll say it again.

 

You know you can already respec, right?

 

I think alot of people are missing that point.

 

Except the cost is far greater than I'd make in the Flashpoint I just respecced to tank for. Expecially if I do my dailies. Thus the QoL thing.

[zootzoot]

DPS/Healer is just one i think is flipped most often, though in this game from the looks of the LFG calls it might be DPS/Tank as I see lots of needs for a tank.

 

Without something to give us a better grasps of the impacts I don't think that the stats is enough. I'm an operative and for me cunning makes me better at dps and healing, so when my spec flips my gear is really just as good. Now things like power/alacrity etc might be more useful in one than another but they also don't become useless.

 

I see your point though about the gear, as someone not needing to support 2 specs only needs 1 set of gear...it costs half as much (time, credits etc). However since you can switch specs on a whim, the dual speccer will get into more groups there by increasing their chances at gear rolls etc. I'd say that comes out in the wash...they may need more but they get more chances at it, single speccer needs less but gets less chances at it.

 

So i can't fully deny that there isn't an advantage there as we are unsure of how much the secondary stats help, but i don't think we can say that there is truely an advantage there either. However dual speccing for pve group puproses does give you the clear advantage of doubling your chances at getting a group since you have 2 roles you can fill freely.

 

Dual speccing for pve solo versus group and dual speccing for pvp versus pve I think can be addressed with allowing dual spec, but the game forcing it (automatically switch to your chosen secondary spec when you enter warzone, or when you become only person in group).

 

Why do you keep trying to make things so complicated?

 

I'm an Op as well. I have a PVP healing spec and a PVE healing spec. I do both each day I play. The credit cost is nothing TBH once you're 50 as long as you don't swap multiple time a day since you can cover the cost of the one respec a day in a half hour of playtime.

 

The onerous thing is the time plus the annoyance of needing to reconfigure Hot Bars and Keybinds. If they offered a fully functional Dual Spec option at level 50 that was on par cost wise with things like the Epic Speeder from the VIP vendor (1.5 million Credits) I would be all over that.

Edited January 9, 2012 by zootzoot

[RamataKahn]

I say there should, and there will.

 

See how that works?

 

Except I know there won't ever be, because no good dev would agree with the ridiculous reasons for it.

Edited January 9, 2012 by RamataKahn