Please allow dual spec or cap respec costs.

[zootzoot]

I hope they do not put in dual spec. Since this game started without it adding it puts in alot of problems. The main problem is with loot rules, people saying OH thats for my offspec "needs item of huge value".

 

Each AC uses the same primary stat for each spec. This isn't WOW. If I'm Concealment specced Op or a Medic specced Op I use Cunning. The secondary stats all have similar values to each spec as well. So your argument is pointless.

[DaxRendar]

I hope they do not put in dual spec. Since this game started without it adding it puts in alot of problems. The main problem is with loot rules, people saying OH thats for my offspec "needs item of huge value".

 

People already do that exact thing for companions bub, try harder next time.

 

Or even better, they "Need" the Mods inside a weapon they can't even equip

 

I have far fewer issues with a DPS Shadow rolling on a Willpower Shield than I do on a Sage rolling on a Dual-Wield Lightsaber /sigh

[Radagastimus]

HAHA, I love people like you telling everyone else how to play.

 

I play 1 toon period. I don't water down my play time or my server identity by playing alt's.

 

Alt's are for noobs in my personal opinion but that's my opinion and I have no problem with you rolling all the alts you like.

 

I don't roll alt's period. If the game requires multiple toons then I'll just quit a poorly made game.

 

There is nothing wrong with people respeccing. I have no problem with people playing the way they like.

 

don't claim to support freedom then act like a dictator.

 

I honestly have no idea why anyone cares what spec another player rolls except for a self centered idealism that they feel they must push on other people much like religious people.

 

Your apprehensive argument only proves my point and furthermore proves my point of peronality needing this kind of functionality.

 

As to answer the previous post of purpose of class. Why desing SWTOR as a new game for roles if you can negate the need of spec by removing classes as whole and just doing characters using different weapons and able to fill every role from start witjout confining restrictions of spec?

 

Also to add WOW to this... WOW as lore and as game is owned by the company that created that game in the first place. They have freedom to do every damned thing they want with it. Same as Rift and many other MMO that is not based on movies or books or some such.

 

All the games like Lotro, STO, DDO and SWTOR have certain restriction which define the way they can twist the lore to fit the MMO world. They simply may not have rits to make dual spec in terms of making somewhat lore-wise class to act less lore-wise with dual spec.

[Varghjerta]

You HONESTLY believe it's a good thing that it costs me Cr 200,000 a DAY just to do my Flashpoint and Warzone Heroic Daily Quests!?!?!?!

 

You think that's good game design?!?!

 

Do you also think it would be "good" if I came over and kneed you in the groin every day before my respecs so you too could experience "adversity" since it "builds character?!?"

 

Never crossed youre mind that maybe you are not playing the game as Bioware want's you to play the game.?

 

Basicly instead you are asking that the game should adapt itself towards you instead of you adapting yourself to the game.

 

And cant you do either the flashpoint and the warzone in the same specc?

Edited January 8, 2012 by Varghjerta

[DaxRendar]

Your apprehensive argument only proves my point and furthermore proves my point of peronality needing this kind of functionality.

 

As to answer the previous post of purpose of class. Why desing SWTOR as a new game for roles if you can negate the need of spec by removing classes as whole and just doing characters using different weapons and able to fill every role from start witjout confining restrictions of spec?

 

All the games like Lotro, STO, DDO and SWTOR have certain restriction which define the way they can twist the lore to fit the MMO world. They simply may not have rits to make dual spec in terms of making somewhat lore-wise class to act less lore-wise with dual spec.

 

So your argument is there's no possible way my Commando could be trained as both a Medic and Weapons Specialist? The US Special Forces disagree with you

[CarltonGanks]

Anyone against dual specs obviously does not PvP competitively.

[HoneyBoy]

Your apprehensive argument only proves my point and furthermore proves my point of peronality needing this kind of functionality.

 

As to answer the previous post of purpose of class. Why desing SWTOR as a new game for roles if you can negate the need of spec by removing classes as whole and just doing characters using different weapons and able to fill every role from start witjout confining restrictions of spec?

 

Also to add WOW to this... WOW as lore and as game is owned by the company that created that game in the first place. They have freedom to do every damned thing they want with it. Same as Rift and many other MMO that is not based on movies or books or some such.

 

All the games like Lotro, STO, DDO and SWTOR have certain restriction which define the way they can twist the lore to fit the MMO world. They simply may not have rits to make dual spec in terms of making somewhat lore-wise class to act less lore-wise with dual spec.

 

No single character would be able to fill every single role. No single AC has both a Tank/Heal spec. Class identity and flavor would still remain. You would still need the healer/dps/tank role to do operations/flashpoints.

 

As for the lore of Star Wars, I don't ever once remember Mace Windu mention that he was DPS or Yoda say he was a tank in any of the canonical movies

[DaxRendar]

Never crossed youre mind that maybe you are not playing the game as Bioware want's you to play the game.?

 

Basicly instead you are asking that the game should adapt itself towards you instead of you adapting yourself to the game.

 

And cant you do either the flashpoint and the warzone in the same specc?

 

I've stated several times why doing Warzones in my Healing spec is an unpleasant (to say the least) solution.

 

If you think BioWare got everything perfect out the door, there is no point in continuing to converse with you.

[Varghjerta]

Anyone against dual specs obviously does not PvP competitively.

 

So you mean all the ones that PvP competetive also are among the top 3 guilds raiding making youre PvP specc worthless in Pve?

Edited January 8, 2012 by Varghjerta

[GarbonzotheDude]

Anyone against dual specs obviously does not PvP competitively.

 

...or played mmos at all. Pretty obvious. Regardless the bs they shovel out.

[HoneyBoy]

Never crossed youre mind that maybe you are not playing the game as Bioware want's you to play the game.?

 

Basicly instead you are asking that the game should adapt itself towards you instead of you adapting yourself to the game.

 

And cant you do either the flashpoint and the warzone in the same specc?

 

The problem with your argument is two fold.

 

On the issue of the way Bioware wants us to play the game, THEY ALREADY ALLOW US TO CHANGE SPECS. We are simply asking for more convenience in doing so.

 

As for doing PvP and PvE in one spec, yeah you sure could. I myself am not much of a serious PvP'er but I understand some people prefer the most optimal spec possible for when they PvP. What's wrong with that?

[Sparckus]

Anyone against dual specs obviously does not PvP competitively.

 

Nor are they able to construct an argument with any real substance, their arguments seem to follow the same theme:

 

a) Play it their way because thats the only way we should be playing, if you PvP then you should run with a gimped hybrid build.

 

b) Go back to wow.

 

Lets not forget the liberal use of a strawman argument they keep chucking out.

 

All in all they are just spouting a pile of elitist BS.

Edited January 8, 2012 by Sparckus

[GarbonzotheDude]

As for the lore of Star Wars, I don't ever once remember Mace Windu mention that he was DPS or Yoda say he was a tank in any of the canonical movies

 

There was a scene in Empire Strikes Back where Boba Fett was complaining to Vader about his dps being nerfed but Lucas cut it out. Word is it will be out soon in a 2012 Blu Ray Special Edition.

Edited January 8, 2012 by GarbonzotheDude

[Varghjerta]

The problem with your argument is two fold.

 

On the issue of the way Bioware wants us to play the game, THEY ALREADY ALLOW US TO CHANGE SPECS. We are simply asking for more convenience in doing so.

 

As for doing PvP and PvE in one spec, yeah you sure could. I myself am not much of a serious PvP'er but I understand some people prefer the most optimal spec possible for when they PvP. What's wrong with that?

 

And they still can have the most optimal specc for PvP there is nothing wrong with that,

But it is what they are demanding after that.

Then they also want the most optimal specc outside the PvP aswell and as of now that cost credits because without that they think something with not the most optimal specc is not worth doing and is worthless.

Edited January 8, 2012 by Varghjerta

[DaxRendar]

So you mean all the ones that PvP competetive also are among the top 3 guilds raiding making youre PvP specc worthless in Pve?

 

In some (but not all) cases... most definitely YES!

 

Top Raiders/PvPers can be looked on as just "Top Players" in general - the most competitive, the most focused, the most dedicated, the most interested in optimization.

 

I'm not in that top group myself - I just want to be able to be an effective healer in my daily Flashpoints and an effective PvPer (using a playstyle I enjoy) in my daily Warzones, and I should be able to do that in the game on my Scoundrel without having to level up 2 Scoundrels or only use my Scoundrel for PvE and some other AC for PvP.

 

And the Cr 1,000,000 question you have still failed to answer...

 

HOW WILL MY BEING ABLE TO DO THAT IN ANY WAY AFFECT YOUR PLAY OR ENJOYMENT?!?

[McVade]

Eh. Dual Specs lose every characters distinctiveness... but I anticipate a ridiculous healer/tank shortage at level 50 because of it. Heck, on my Sentinel, I haven't even bothered trying to run a single Flashpoint due to the inconvenience of finding a tank and a healer.

[HoneyBoy]

And they still can have the most optimal specc for PvP there is nothing wrong with that,

But it is what they are demanding after that.

Then they also want the most optimal specc outside the PvP aswell and as of now that cost credits because without that they think something with not the most optimal specc is not worth doing and is worthless.

 

So what? That's what they think, how does that negatively impact you in any way? You can still play however you like with whomever you like!

[Varghjerta]

So what? That's what they think, how does that negatively impact you in any way? You can still play however you like with whomever you like!

 

They can think it but personally i dont think they should have it

 

And in that case why not implement dual Ac or free mounts free levels it wont impact you in any way will it.?

 

That is using the same logic aint it?

Edited January 8, 2012 by Varghjerta

[HoneyBoy]

They can think it but personally i dont think they should have it in that case why not implement dual Ac or free mounts free levels it wont impact you in any way.

 

That is using the same logic aint it?

 

Personally it would not impact me, I know where the fun of the game lies for me and how to find it.

 

Like I said earlier your argument against dual-spec basically boils down to

 

"Other players seek their enjoyment from different avenues (being min/maxers in this case) than me, I DON'T LIKE IT!".

 

You still did not answer how it negatively impacts you in any way.

Edited January 8, 2012 by HoneyBoy

[DaxRendar]

They can think it but personally i dont think they should have it

 

And in that case why not implement dual Ac or free mounts free levels it wont impact you in any way will it.?

 

That is using the same logic aint it?

 

No, that is engaging in hyperbole and a Strawman argument.

 

Now answer the question... how does others having Dual Spec impact YOUR play and YOUR enjoyment?

[RAMunch]

Please leave speccing the way it is.

The indecisive, unsocial, uncreative, lazy people that want the ability to flip flop can go back and play WoW and Rift, they cater to you.

 

 

To me respeccing is the equivalent of going to college for 4 years, earning a degree in business management working for awhile, then deciding that you really wanted to be a doctor. Rather than going to school and paying with time, money and effort for the fact that you changed your mind, you just call up the university and have them change your degree to medicine and call it a day.

 

Instead of asking for dual spec why not just ask to do away with specs? if you can freely choose what role you want to fill, why choose to begin with? At that point the choice is worthless and actually just a waste of time. Why not be able to "respec" into completely different classes? or races? At what point do all of you that want dualspecs feel that you have to make a decision and live with it and deal with the consequences of it? Do you just want the ability to choose your level, class, stats, spec, etc at will?

 

Changing your spec is no different than

1. Changing your Advance Class

2. Changing your Class

3. Changing your appearance

4. Changing your Race

5. Changing your Name

6. Changing your Faction

7. Changing your level

 

These are all character defining attributes, if they implement respecs they should just allow us to freely alter any of those attributes. Why would one of them be more special than the other?

 

 

/sarcasm on

 

Since obviously the vast majority just want to be able to do whatever, whenever they want with no cost I propose BW do away with classes. Everyone should Heal like a healer, tank like a tank, and do dps like teh best dps...now we don't have to worry about those pesky decisions, we just get 4 people together and run a flash point. done! no thinking required, no planning, no decisions to be made, no cost either!! god this is perfect

 

/sarcasm off

 

For anyone that tries to counter with patches making changes to specs etc...DAoC did it for years with only being able to respec killing the appropriate bosses and they gave out respecs anytime the developers felt they made changes that were hugely impactful. This was good because fixing an exploit/bug wasn't considered impactful, so people that specced a certain way because there was a bug in the skill didn't get a free respect to move on to the next bugged setup. It made people take pride in their specs, people got creative with how to take on content if they didn't have someone in the group with something less than the "perfect spec"

 

If the talent decisions are going to be marginalized by allowing for cheap respecs or dual specs why bother having them to begin with?

 

Please all of you people that want this to be a watered down game like WoW, go back to Wow.... where decisions don't matter, every class can dang near fill every role, you don't have to talk to people because the dungeon finder makes groups for you. the only reason to want cheap respecs or dual specs is YOU ARE LAZY. Every argument in this thread thus far for it is nothing more than a vague attempt to justify being lazy or claiming entitlement because you pay to play. I pay just as much as the next so your sense of entitlement ends where mine begins and my sense of entitlement says I pay to play a game that has a cost for respeccing. So unless you got a really good reason why you are better than me or your monthly sub is better than mine you are no more entitled to being able to respec than I am entitled to playing a game where there is no respecing.

 

Veiled arguements that are lazy.

 

1. My static group healer wasn't available for X days, we couldn't do/struggled with content...if someone could have respeced healer we would have been fine. LAZY! you would have also been fine if you would have put forth some f'ing effor and found someone else, made a new character, paid for the respec etc...LAZY there are other options to satisfy the need but you are TOO LAZY to use them, you want it handed to you.

 

2. I want to be able to PvP as one spec, PvE as another spec and not pay for it. I want to make a Fortune 500 CEO's salary without having to do anything...doesn't mean i should get it does it? You want to PvP and PvE, either deal with being inferiror at one, make 2 characters, or pay for the respec. Again there are other options you are just TOO LAZY to do them.

 

3. I don't have the time to level up 2 characters. Then stop playing, or deal with playing only 1. If someone argued they don't have the time to level 1 character should we just give them a level 50 with max valor ranks?? BW isn't making your life decisions for you, if you don't have the time to play the way you want that is not there fault and they shouldn't alter their game for you, you alter your life or stop playing? I don't have the time to build a 50,000 sqft house, who's going to come and build me one?? oh no one, and that's exactly who should cater to your lazy waste of space *****.

 

4. i want to test specs...awesome! they should implement free respecs on the test server, test them there...or pay for it!

 

This is a service, you don't goto a restraunt, pay for a plate them expect them to change it from a steak to lobster after you've ate half of it because YOU changed without you paying for both do you?

 

You don't signup for the biggest cable TV plan to decide half way through the month you don't really want all those HBO stations and not expect to pay for the time you have had them do you?

 

Everything else in life if you pay for a service and make a decision, once that decision is delivered you PAY for it if you want to change your mind....why should this be any different? Oh because it's a game, it's a form of entertainment? So is a movie, a play, a vacation, etc...If I go to the movies and buy a ticket for A, watch it and then tell the manager that I didn't want to watch movie A i really wanted to watch movie B, he'll be more than happy to sell me another ticket to movie B but he's not going to give it to me for free.

 

Also for those that say that if I don't like it don't use it, the ability existing in the game does impact those that don't want to use it. Example: If person A chooses DPS spec over Healing spec, but Person B chose Healing spec and there is a group opening for a healer. Lets Assume Person A is using dual spec and Person B is like me and doesn't believe in using it. Now person A just flips specs and joins the group, which isn't fair to B that has stuck it out. If person A wants to play dps and healer, make 2 characters or dual spec and be mediocre at them.

 

 

I feel like the current system is a good compromise...I as one that is against respeccing isn't happy with it and those that want dual specs aren't happy with it...if all parties are equally miserable then it's a good comprimise.

 

The current system:

 

• If you are uncreative and must flip specs to the newest flavor of the month...you pay for it...those of us that chose our own specs don't.
   
  
• If you are unsocial and want to stick with your tight group of friends and be able to alter roles to fill in when one doesn't show up...you pay for it. Those of us that will just find a fill in don't have to pay for it.
   
  
• If you are indecisive and just want to keep changing specs...great you can pay for it, those of us that deal with the decisions we make don't have to.
   
  
• If you want to be able to fill whatever role is currently being /LFG'd then great, you can just pay for it, those of us that will wait for our role to be needed or start our own group won't.
  

 

 

 

I am 100% serious, I will pay double my monthly subscription for a server that does away with respecs entirely except when given out by the developers when they feel they have made changes that alter the game significantly enough to justify it. I will actually go ahead and pay for 5 years in advance, sign a contract or whatever BW wants to get my money and know that I am serious. At least then I know that I am on a server with people that aren't a whiny group of indecisive power-gamers with an entitlement complex...and to me that is priceless.

 

/rage off

[zootzoot]

They can think it but personally i dont think they should have it

 

And in that case why not implement dual Ac or free mounts free levels it wont impact you in any way will it.?

 

That is using the same logic aint it?

 

It wouldn't impact anyone who didn't use those perks. Your argument is flawed though because as of now there are no AC respecs (while we can respec within our AC) and the mount is a one time fee (just like a Dual Spec fee would be.) So 0 for 2 on your examples.

[RAMunch]

The problem with your argument is two fold.

 

On the issue of the way Bioware wants us to play the game, THEY ALREADY ALLOW US TO CHANGE SPECS. We are simply asking for more convenience in doing so.

 

You are correct they already allow us to change specs FOR A COST!!!!. You are wanting it for free. If you can't see the difference here I'm not sure I can help you.

 

If you are wanting dual specs but every time you switch between each spec it charges you the same as it does now for respeccing...THEN you are asking for a more convenient way of doing what they currently priovide. Instead what you are asking for is a FREE way to do what YOU want. The two are completely different.

 

As for doing PvP and PvE in one spec, yeah you sure could. I myself am not much of a serious PvP'er but I understand some people prefer the most optimal spec possible for when they PvP. What's wrong with that?

What's wrong with living with the decisions you've made and if you want the most optimal spec for a given situation paying the cost to respec?

[zootzoot]

Please leave speccing the way it is.

The indecisive, unsocial, uncreative, lazy people that want the ability to flip flop can go back and play WoW and Rift, they cater to you.

 

blah, blah, blah blah.....

 

Play the way you want and let others play the way they want. Go ahead and pretend there's no respec trainer if that's how you get off....no harm there. Put your points in as you level and NEVER change one. I could carer less how you play the game. Please extend me the same courtesy.

[zootzoot]

You are correct they already allow us to change specs FOR A COST!!!!. You are wanting it for free. If you can't see the difference here I'm not sure I can help you.

 

If you are wanting dual specs but every time you switch between each spec it charges you the same as it does now for respeccing...THEN you are asking for a more convenient way of doing what they currently priovide. Instead what you are asking for is a FREE way to do what YOU want. The two are completely different.

 

 

What's wrong with living with the decisions you've made and if you want the most optimal spec for a given situation paying the cost to respec?

 

You don't PVP do you? ...or maybe it's you don't PVE because for all the chatter from the devs we still have very different needs in each area which require different specs.

 

It's ludicrous to say it's fair for someone who wants to PVE and PVP each day to have to pay the Credit costs as they exist now or to deal with the tedium of going to the Fleet and redoing our Hot Bars/Keybinds. Your answer is to pick a sub optimal spec for one or the other and live with the gimpiness.