So I'm not suppose to use Telekinetic Throw anymore, right?

[Kurugi]

Or are there situations it's still useful in at low levels before I get more of my abilities? Any other more caster oriented abilities I don't need to bother with as a Shadow while I'm at it?

[artilleryshell]

Or are there situations it's still useful in at low levels before I get more of my abilities? Any other more caster oriented abilities I don't need to bother with as a Shadow while I'm at it?

 

at low level its really only handy with force potency to increase its range if you want a nice long ranged pull.

 

For some specs, its a core part of rotation (kenetic benefiets from using TT after stacking 3 harnessed shadows procs)

[Jeckll]

You will need ALL your abilities.

 

Telekinetic Throw is very useful when you're rooted and further, you can combine it with Force Potency to gain access to a 30m range ability that crits the whole freaking time. Quite useful for interrupting in warzones.

[Kitru]

Nope. The only time you should use Telekinetic Throw as a Shadow should be as a high level Kinetic when you have 3 stacks of Harnessed Shadows. Other than that, it doesn't deal enough damage to justify the risk in use.

 

If you're ever curious about what abilities you should be using, just follow Kitru's Magical Rule of Rulifying On Your Abilities:

 

*Never* use any attack except for Double Strike and Force Breach unless the ability is granted by a talent or augmented by a talent in a specific way and, then, only use the talent in the manner as intended by the augmenting talent (abilities with stringent internal limitations on their use or long CDs, such as Spinning Strike, Force Stun, Tumult, and, depending on your opinion of it, Force Wave are exceptions).

 

This means that, unless you are Infiltration spec and the Find Weakness buff is active, you do not touch Shadow Strike. Kinetic and Balance shouldn't even have it on their bar. Project shouldn't be touched until you have Particle Acceleration (Kinetic), Circling Shadows (Infiltration), or Twin Disciplines (Balance; some people would recommend use of Project when you get Upheaval, but I don't; the additional 22.5% damage just isn't worth it yet imo).

 

Following the Rule makes the first 20 levels of playing a Shadow incredibly boring (it's largely Double Strike and Saber Strike spam with the occasional break for a Force Breach), but it pays out in effectiveness. Once you start getting the talents in question, you start learning how to play your class effectively in an organic manner (Double Strike feeds into Particle Acceleration which feeds into Harnessed Shadows for Kinetic, as an example) as you level, prepping you for the proc and buff based power interaction of high level Shadow play.

[Jeckll]

That's quite one dimensional thinking. Sure, as a general rule, it may be valid but being aware of all the abilities in your arsenal is very important.

 

I could tell you about many situations where your rule doesn't apply.

 

e.g. 2 Low HP targets (< 30%) are available. Spinning Strike the first one (as you would also suggest). Then - according to your rule, I have to double strike/clairvoyant strike the second one?! Dude - I shadow strike this guy no matter what and even without proc, there is a good chance I'll finish him of in 1 gcd while ds/cs would take at least 2 gcd.

 

Or: target rooted you, standing 20m away from you. No CC breaker available. you can stand there and watch him cast (because you're only allowed to use ds) or Force Potency - Telekinetic Throw him.

 

In PvE, there are some encounters that require melee DPS to get oor of 360° cleaves. Are you really stand there and wait until the cleave ends? Or are you ready to mind crush/telekinetic throw the boss?

 

As a general rule what ability to use, i agree with your statement but don't discard and ability completely just because you can't use it all the time.

[MiraBindo]

If i have to step away from a boss during an AoE, i use it between Project/Breach as filler

 

also alot of times on melee elites and story bosses, if Theran falls behind on healing ill do a force wave-> Telekinetic Throw to slow him getting back to me. it gives Theran a sec to catch up with an extra heal or two.

 

Along the same lines ill do a stun -> Force Potency/Move away -> TK throw -> slow -> project/breach while kiting off the slow -> TK throw again if hes still 10m away. Again it gives Theran a little while to catch up on some heals, as well as does some decent damage in the process.

 

It may be a rare use. But it's far from NEVER using it.

 

So i agree with Jeckll..

 

As a general rule what ability to use, i agree with your statement but don't discard and ability completely just because you can't use it all the time.

Edited January 5, 2012 by MiraBindo

[Vankris]

Harnessed Shadows

Project has a [50 / 100]% chance to grant Harnessed Shadows, which makes the next Telekinetic Throw used uninterruptible and immune to pushback. In addition, each stack increases the damage dealt by your next Telekinetic Throw by 25%. Stacks up to 3 times. At 3 stacks, each tick of Telekinetic Throw heals you for 3% of your maximum health.

i guess with this talent, project -> telekintic throw become a standard rotation for shadow tank

Edited January 5, 2012 by Vankris

[aladik]

Kitru is correct that Throw is not the most effective power until you get some talents.

 

There are some advantages, however, to some situational usage while leveling.

 

1. Functionally force-neutral.

2. Gives you a 3-4 second "pause" in the action. I'll use it while contemplating my strategy, as a kindof pause button.

3. It adds a slow effect while channeled.

4. Combined with Force Potency you get extra range, and a pile of crits off of it. Even without Force Potency, there is a high likelihood of critting once and triggering Force Synergy.

 

From levels 18-25 I used it more against silvers/elites after killing the weaker enemies in a group. After 25 I got much less use out of it, Force Synergy is up almost 100% of the time from just my standard rotations. But Stun > Speed out to 30m > Potency > Throw is a potent way to reset a battle after burning down the weaker enemies in a group (and you can hopefully hang onto your final charge of potency to use to trigger more force synergy as the proc is wearing off).

 

You lose out some pure efficiency, but sometimes you need a little time to consider things, and it lets you do damage while thinking.

[Kitru]

Sure, as a general rule, it may be valid but being aware of all the abilities in your arsenal is very important.

 

If someone has the foresight to realize that some of their abilities are useful in specific exceptions, it's doubtful they'd need the rule to figure out what to do for everything else. The few exceptions I've seen are nowhere near common enough to actually justify specific exceptions.

 

e.g. 2 Low HP targets (< 30%) are available. Spinning Strike the first one (as you would also suggest). Then - according to your rule, I have to double strike/clairvoyant strike the second one?! Dude - I shadow strike this guy no matter what and even without proc, there is a good chance I'll finish him of in 1 gcd while ds/cs would take at least 2 gcd.

 

Not really. First off, you're assuming you have a *lot* of Force (Shadow Strike without Find Weakness costs a crapton). When you've actually reduced multiple targets to low health, it's pretty likely you're not actually going to *have* the Force to use Shadow Strike to "finish the job". Secondly, Shadow Strike does nowhere *near* that much more damage than Clairvoyant Strike to justify using it at any time outside of Find Weakness. It's maybe 10-20% more damage for twice the cost: that additional bit of damage is nowhere near enough to justify the outrageous cost.

 

Or: target rooted you, standing 20m away from you. No CC breaker available. you can stand there and watch him cast (because you're only allowed to use ds) or Force Potency - Telekinetic Throw him.

 

Your argument here is that when two of your CCs are down (Resilience does a full cleanse as well), another is up, and you're affected by a debuff, TK Throw is useful. Sure, it is, to some extent. Of course, the damage is going to be rather terrible and the long cast means that the CC is likely going to be up before you actually finish it, but, yeah, I guess it's *kinda useful* in that situation. Since TK Throw is a channeled cast, it's not going to pushback the target and, unless the target is close to death already (re: below 10% on any appreciably difficult targets), you'd be better served eating the casts for the short duration of the immob, Force Speeding up to the target, and then beating on the target with a CS>CS>FP>Project>FB, which is exactly what my rule recommends.

 

In PvE, there are some encounters that require melee DPS to get oor of 360° cleaves. Are you really stand there and wait until the cleave ends? Or are you ready to mind crush/telekinetic throw the boss?

 

Yes, there are some fights that offer a giant finger to melee, but, once again, those are extreme exceptions. Anyone that is actually doing those fights should be cognizant enough of the fight in question to realize they can't fight in their normal way. The Rule *does* have exceptions, but they are so *outrageously specific* to a situation that there's almost no point in mentioning them except as a way to voice opposition to the Rule (which, honestly, best exemplifies the actual playstyle of the Shadow).

[madmilitia]

kitru have you guys finished all the raid content?

[lilmanweddle]

Use it all you want mate, throwing rocks is cool.

 

While I respect some people's ability to come up with these faultless, force efficient rotations, it's hardly required early on. Play and enjoy.

Edited January 5, 2012 by lilmanweddle

[Wakantanka]

I find it is actually pretty good at proccing Find Weakness since it seems to have a chance on every tick to do so.

 

So 2x double strike/c strike->force potency->project->t throw->SS is actually a very good combo.

[VanorDM]

While I respect some people's ability to come up with these faultless, force efficient rotations, it's hardly required early on.

 

I agree with that, however it might not be a bad idea to not develop bad habits that you have to break latter.

 

If you're the type who's into competitive end game ops, then I'd say you'd want to play like that from the start, because you'll be used to it when the time comes you need it.

 

Now however if you aren't going to do that, and can get by with sloppy play then the Rule is less of an issue.

 

I give Kitru a fair amount of props for the theorycrafting and the concept of the Rule. I'd recommend it to pretty much anyone as something to consider.

 

But at the same time, not everyone plays for the same reason or plays on the same level, so for someone who's more into casual PVE and may not ever do much with end game ops, not obeying the Rule won't impact as much.

[Enduretwentytwo]

I actually find Telekentic throw to be a completely viable use of force. Would I use it to maximize raid dps ... no, but it is very effective in PVP and PVE, yes. If the entire channel time is utilized, the force regen almost completely covers the initial force cost and is always a much higher DPS gain compared to just spamming two single attacks.

 

It also is great for kiting elite mobs and gaining procs of Force Synergy.

[richardya]

I cant deal with the cast time unless i am 30M out and using F.P. as well.