Operative / Scoundrels - Are they balanced?

[exxxtreme]

You are a op/scoundrels anticlass. If you are not beating them one on one something is wrong with the person behind the keyboard.

 

Really? Anti-class you say? No. Even if we catch an operative in stealth the best we can do is pull them out of stealth and kill them though we dont have the burst to kill like ops do. Those crits you see in pvp videos are fully buffed and stimmed.

 

They should never ever get the opener on you if you are both stealthed and you know they are around. Their entire dps revolves around a positional opener and as soon as you see them you should be hitting them with ur insta cast.

 

This isnt as easy as it sounds. I promise. It's clear you've never played a sin or shadow and this is all conjecture. They will kill you in 3 seconds and if you pop your "pvp trinket" ability you might escape or counter. Frankly, the ignorant from your post proves how little you know of sins. Thanks for playing though.

 

lol, don't lump all sin players together. Everything 'biowareftw' posted is true.

 

Sure, getting the opener in a stealth vs stealth match-up isn't easy, but you should be doing it. Every time.

 

*Frankly*, it sounds like you need more pvp experience under your belt...and some humility to realize that there are always ways for you to improve. And if your real world skills are capped (you can't play any better), then focus on the grind for better gear.

 

And dial down your condescending tone.

[--Oxygenthief--]

I found this thread after having ***** repeatedly in PVP by a single scoundrel. I had initially thought that the guy pwning me was hacking or using some sort of exploit. I thought it was a little bit odd when the match was prematurely ended due to lack of players (i.e. 120 seconds) that this one scoundrel was able to rack up 20 kills while the next highest player on the server had only 3 kills. He had more damage than the rest of the server combined!

 

For those in this thread stating "you must not be playing your character right".... sorry but that is complete BS when an entire team can be dominated by a single player. Regardless of whether or not that guy could be the greatest pvp scoundrel on the planet having the ability to kill someone within 3 seconds then rinse and repeat running through your entire team is just unacceptable.

 

I remember reading about how the devs wanted to even the classes out so they all could do the same DPS within a few percentages of each other. If an operative/scoundrel is able to do so much damage within a short amount of time you would figure that that character would be useless for a significant period of time afterwards, right? But the match I witnessed yesterday with the 20 kills in 120 seconds doesn't quite support that theory...

 

To answer the OP's question as to whether or not these two classes are overpowered, the answer is clearly YES.

 

I look at it this way... PVP, as the devs intended, should allow for each character be able to hold their own 1 on 1 against any other class. Meaning if you have a fair battle between two that the survivor of the battle should be very near death. In the case of the scoundrel/operative class the battle could be won with zero damage done to the scoundrel/operative. To me, that is the definition of being overpowered.

 

To those that say there are "ways" to defend yourself and to the others that say those classes are useless until level 40 I say make a new bracket that puts these level 40 operatives/scoundrels in the mix with others who actually have the necessary abilities to counter, because obviously everyone else below 40 does not.

 

I have no doubt that all the posters here that play with 40+ operatives/scoundrels will tear my comments apart, I really don't care. The truth is, people wouldn't complain so vehemently if there wasn't a problem. Having a slight advantage is one thing, but this is just unbelievable...

[hulkweazel]

I found this thread after having ***** repeatedly in PVP by a single scoundrel. I had initially thought that the guy pwning me was hacking or using some sort of exploit. I thought it was a little bit odd when the match was prematurely ended due to lack of players (i.e. 120 seconds) that this one scoundrel was able to rack up 20 kills while the next highest player on the server had only 3 kills. He had more damage than the rest of the server combined!

 

For those in this thread stating "you must not be playing your character right".... sorry but that is complete BS when an entire team can be dominated by a single player. Regardless of whether or not that guy could be the greatest pvp scoundrel on the planet having the ability to kill someone within 3 seconds then rinse and repeat running through your entire team is just unacceptable.

 

I remember reading about how the devs wanted to even the classes out so they all could do the same DPS within a few percentages of each other. If an operative/scoundrel is able to do so much damage within a short amount of time you would figure that that character would be useless for a significant period of time afterwards, right? But the match I witnessed yesterday with the 20 kills in 120 seconds doesn't quite support that theory...

 

To answer the OP's question as to whether or not these two classes are overpowered, the answer is clearly YES.

 

I look at it this way... PVP, as the devs intended, should allow for each character be able to hold their own 1 on 1 against any other class. Meaning if you have a fair battle between two that the survivor of the battle should be very near death. In the case of the scoundrel/operative class the battle could be won with zero damage done to the scoundrel/operative. To me, that is the definition of being overpowered.

 

To those that say there are "ways" to defend yourself and to the others that say those classes are useless until level 40 I say make a new bracket that puts these level 40 operatives/scoundrels in the mix with others who actually have the necessary abilities to counter, because obviously everyone else below 40 does not.

 

I have no doubt that all the posters here that play with 40+ operatives/scoundrels will tear my comments apart, I really don't care. The truth is, people wouldn't complain so vehemently if there wasn't a problem. Having a slight advantage is one thing, but this is just unbelievable...

So instead of actually looking for ways to counter Ops, instead of trying to understand how Ops work, you just say "I don't care, just nerf them"

 

There is no point in responding to you. You've already made up your mind and you just want to wallow in your ignorance until you get your way.

 

I play a PT, an Op, a Sorc and a Shadow. Guess which one is the weakest of the four? This is a L2P issue, not an overpowered issue.

Edited March 8, 2012 by hulkweazel

[hammarus]

Why is this thread being posted in? IT is a dead issue.

[exphryl]

Some fun facts:

 

Fact 1:

Operatives/Scoundrels can still do AMAZING burst from stealth. Granted they won't hit high single ability numbers but added up in to the duration of the stun can be devastating.

 

Fact 2:

There is a slight chance they can kill you from full to dead if your PvP Break Free ability is on cooldown, i.e stunlocked to death. Or at the very least in my case do 16K+ worth of damage to a BM Heavy Armored Target

 

Fact 3:

And the current fact people don't seem to understand. Outside of the opener both Operatives AND Scoundrels are terrible. Seriously, they bring nothing else to the table after that and either need to vanish or die. This doesn't matter if they are the most skilled OPeratives or the worst, it's just how the current class design is. Naturally if you are terrible yourself it makes them seem overpowered, but against a relatively competent player they'll lose. They are best used currently picking out weakened targets in a group and restealthing afterwards rather then a full 1v1 Encounter..

 

They NEED some adjustment. Lower the front end a bit and buff them a bit on the backend of their damage rotation. I feel for my DPS Buddies in this case.

Edited March 8, 2012 by exphryl

[Thullsadoom]

Im a valor 63 Concealment OP I play on Jung Ma...Iam full champion and various battlemaster. We are far from over powered. I face roll grind badies that have gear but are still figuring out how to play there class, and people with no gear.

 

There are certain classes I wont even touch out of stealth if there full life. Op concealment used to be the fom but its far from that anymore. I actually see far more hybrid heal leathality or leathality specs than concealment on my server.

 

If your seeing a Operative killing 20 people in 120 seconds its a leathality spec dotting people up. Concealment is single target dps.

 

I hate seeing nerf posts to a class that has effectivly been nerfed twice (including surge nerf).

 

Want to see tears ? check out the operative class forums the sky is falling on a daily basis.

 

I wont go into any l2p rebuttles all I can say is keep gringing out that gear and experimenting with what to do when you suddenly find your self on your back. Dont panic, and I think you will soon see operatives are more bark than bite.

[--Oxygenthief--]

So instead of actually looking for ways to counter Ops, instead of trying to understand how Ops work, you just say "I don't care, just nerf them"

 

There is no point in responding to you. You've already made up your mind and you just want to wallow in your ignorance until you get your way.

 

I play a PT, an Op, a Sorc and a Shadow. Guess which one is the weakest of the four? This is a L2P issue, not an overpowered issue.

 

No, you misunderstand... when I said "I don't care" I wasn't referring to anything except responses.... like yours. You and every other 40+ operative/scoundrel think alike... that having such an advantage is acceptable and that it is everyone elses' problem.

 

It is impossible to argue with a person or a group that will not accept the truth. That is why I say "I don't care" if my response to this thread gets torn apart. Your transparent opinion is expected and summarily dismissed by those on the receiving end of such one-sided encounters...

 

But thanks for the reply in any case...

[hulkweazel]

No, you misunderstand... when I said "I don't care" I wasn't referring to anything except responses.... like yours. You and every other 40+ operative/scoundrel think alike... that having such an advantage is acceptable and that it is everyone elses' problem.

 

It is impossible to argue with a person or a group that will not accept the truth. That is why I say "I don't care" if my response to this thread gets torn apart. Your transparent opinion is expected and summarily dismissed by those on the receiving end of such one-sided encounters...

 

But thanks for the reply in any case...

As I said, I have a PT, an Op, a Shadow and a Sorc. Out of those, an Op is the weakest. Yet despite playing all those classes, and that you HAVEn'T played an Op, somehow you know more about the class than me?

 

Pot, meet kettle. If you want to whine that Ops "aren't facing reality" look in the mirror. You refuse to actually look at facts and just whine because you got pwned.

 

Until you do, I'm not going to actually give you constructive criticism because it would be pointless doing so.

[--Oxygenthief--]

Some fun facts:

 

Fact 1:

Operatives/Scoundrels can still do AMAZING burst from stealth. Granted they won't hit high single ability numbers but added up in to the duration of the stun can be devastating.

 

Fact 2:

There is a slight chance they can kill you from full to dead if your PvP Break Free ability is on cooldown, i.e stunlocked to death. Or at the very least in my case do 16K+ worth of damage to a BM Heavy Armored Target

 

Fact 3:

And the current fact people don't seem to understand. Outside of the opener both Operatives AND Scoundrels are terrible. Seriously, they bring nothing else to the table after that and either need to vanish or die. This doesn't matter if they are the most skilled OPeratives or the worst, it's just how the current class design is. Naturally if you are terrible yourself it makes them seem overpowered, but against a relatively competent player they'll lose. They are best used currently picking out weakened targets in a group and restealthing afterwards rather then a full 1v1 Encounter..

 

They NEED some adjustment. Lower the front end a bit and buff them a bit on the backend of their damage rotation. I feel for my DPS Buddies in this case.

 

See, I agree that an "adjustment" needs to be made, not a nerf. Instead of burst damage that is so lethal why not spread out the damage over a longer period of time to even out the dps in comparison to other classes? Why not give them a boost to DOT abilities and force them to go hit and run, doing the same damage but over a longer period of time while making it less advantageous to remain uncloaked. If the operative is designed to make hit and run attacks would this really make that big of a difference damage wise?

[--Oxygenthief--]

As I said, I have a PT, an Op, a Shadow and a Sorc. Out of those, an Op is the weakest. Yet despite playing all those classes, and that you HAVEn'T played an Op, somehow you know more about the class than me?

 

Pot, meet kettle. If you want to whine that Ops "aren't facing reality" look in the mirror. You refuse to actually look at facts and just whine because you got pwned.

 

Until you do, I'm not going to actually give you constructive criticism because it would be pointless doing so.

 

Reading your remarks I find it impressive that you even understand the concept of corrective criticism so no real loss on my part. Please feel free to continue not helping...

[Ossos]

See, I agree that an "adjustment" needs to be made, not a nerf. Instead of burst damage that is so lethal why not spread out the damage over a longer period of time to even out the dps in comparison to other classes? Why not give them a boost to DOT abilities and force them to go hit and run, doing the same damage but over a longer period of time while making it less advantageous to remain uncloaked. If the operative is designed to make hit and run attacks would this really make that big of a difference damage wise?

 

Yes because they are easily kited to death. Your assumption is that as the damage is spread out over a greater period of time, they will live to do that damage. That simply isn't true. You're talking about a class that is very squishy, does negligible damage other than the opener, and (again) can be kited to death very easily as they have no gap closer.

 

What class do you play and what level are you?

[Vikassi]

Im a valor 63 Concealment OP I play on Jung Ma...Iam full champion and various battlemaster. We are far from over powered. I face roll grind badies that have gear but are still figuring out how to play there class, and people with no gear.

 

There are certain classes I wont even touch out of stealth if there full life. Op concealment used to be the fom but its far from that anymore. I actually see far more hybrid heal leathality or leathality specs than concealment on my server.

 

If your seeing a Operative killing 20 people in 120 seconds its a leathality spec dotting people up. Concealment is single target dps.

 

I hate seeing nerf posts to a class that has effectivly been nerfed twice (including surge nerf).

 

Want to see tears ? check out the operative class forums the sky is falling on a daily basis.

 

I wont go into any l2p rebuttles all I can say is keep gringing out that gear and experimenting with what to do when you suddenly find your self on your back. Dont panic, and I think you will soon see operatives are more bark than bite.

 

this is a very accurate post .. just this ..

 

OP - operative has already been nerfed into oblivion .. we are the least played class, no one NEW will roll an operative .. its a dying class / breed .. stop crying, and yes, L2P.

[hulkweazel]

Reading your remarks I find it impressive that you even understand the concept of corrective criticism so no real loss on my part. Please feel free to continue not helping...

Pot, meet kettle. Until your last post, all you did was whine about how OP Operatives were and it didn't matter what anyone thought, they needed to be nerfed. How is that constructive? How can you possibly know so much about a class you've never played?

 

Yeah but continue to bash me just because I play an Op (Never mind the fact I play three other classes). Why not actually TRY TO UNDERSTAND the class instead of just crying and whining?

 

Honestly, on my Shadow or PT I just laugh when an Op tries to backstab me, it does little but tickle me before they either die or run away. I can give you strategies to deal with Ops, but first you have to be open to listen. Which I haven't seen yet.

[Chaosmagistrate]

See, I agree that an "adjustment" needs to be made, not a nerf. Instead of burst damage that is so lethal why not spread out the damage over a longer period of time to even out the dps in comparison to other classes? Why not give them a boost to DOT abilities and force them to go hit and run, doing the same damage but over a longer period of time while making it less advantageous to remain uncloaked. If the operative is designed to make hit and run attacks would this really make that big of a difference damage wise?

 

Sooooo...you mean turn the Concealment into a Hybrid Sorc with almost no defensive buffs.

 

Or a Sentinel with no mobility and almost no defensive buffs.

 

Hit and Run generally means to Hit hard and Run...Not hit like a pansy and Run.

 

On my Sent, I have zero problems with Ops. One or two might cause me to blow a medpac, but generally, they're free kills.

 

Scaling their burst to the back end would help enormously, but the trade off would either have to be added mobility or added survivability, which then homogenizes the class to be more like a Shadow or Sentinel.

 

The Ops class was probably designed to be a glass cannon in stealth, but once out, they fold too easily. The problem is that they hit significantly hard upfront, that noone notices how easy they are to kill.

Edited March 8, 2012 by Chaosmagistrate

[Scoobings]

Yes because they are easily kited to death. Your assumption is that as the damage is spread out over a greater period of time, they will live to do that damage. That simply isn't true. You're talking about a class that is very squishy, does negligible damage other than the opener, and (again) can be kited to death very easily as they have no gap closer.

 

What class do you play and what level are you?

 

They have an extremely long duration, and potent snare, however. As any class other than sorc/assassin you can't kite them if they know what they're doing. Then if you do get distance they can use flash bang.

 

I don't have a problem with operatives being the king of 1v1 combat, I think it's a neat idea and since the game isn't balanced around 1v1 combat I don't have a problem with the idea of a class dominating in 1v1.

 

I do think that it would be wise to give operatives sustained damage a little bit of love (simply so they aren't so useless in PVE) and maybe in exchange for that curtail either their burst or CC.

 

I don't know anything about the operatives class. I'm a valor rank 55 PT. I stomp crappy operatives all the time, but when someone who's good picks up the class I don't have a chance.

 

Am I being outplayed? It wouldn't be the first time, it's entirely possible, but based on my experience there really doesn't seem to be anything I can do if the op is willing to blow all of his cooldowns to kill me. My goal in a 1v1 fight is just survive long enough for my team to come help me (if they're good).

 

Like I said, I don't neccesarily have a problem with a class designed like this, but I do feel like they could use some love in PVE and the only way to balance that without going exclusive PVP and PVE functionality is to tone down their CC or burst.

 

Just my 2 cents.

[Rouncer]

 

Fact 2:

There is a slight chance they can kill you from full to dead if your PvP Break Free ability is on cooldown, i.e stunlocked to death. Or at the very least in my case do 16K+ worth of damage to a BM Heavy Armored Target

 

They NEED some adjustment. Lower the front end a bit and buff them a bit on the backend of their damage rotation. I feel for my DPS Buddies in this case.

 

and if you are not a BM heavily armored target and you only have 16k hps in PvP gear then it's incredibly likely that they will easily kill you outright without any chance to respond in any way if your PvP break free ability is on cooldown.

 

I can agree with your assessment of their needs but in my mind the more important thing for the game is that NO CLASS should have the ability to take a similarly geared player from 100% to dead with their only avenue of response being the break free ability.

 

I haven't leveled an agent or a smuggler so it's not my place to say what they need but seems like the easiest fix would be to put a cooldown on hidden strike.

Edited March 8, 2012 by Rouncer

[Chaosmagistrate]

They have an extremely long duration, and potent snare, however. As any class other than sorc/assassin you can't kite them if they know what they're doing. Then if you do get distance they can use flash bang.

 

I don't have a problem with operatives being the king of 1v1 combat, I think it's a neat idea and since the game isn't balanced around 1v1 combat I don't have a problem with the idea of a class dominating in 1v1.

 

I do think that it would be wise to give operatives sustained damage a little bit of love (simply so they aren't so useless in PVE) and maybe in exchange for that curtail either their burst or CC.

 

I don't know anything about the operatives class. I'm a valor rank 55 PT. I stomp crappy operatives all the time, but when someone who's good picks up the class I don't have a chance.

 

Am I being outplayed? It wouldn't be the first time, it's entirely possible, but based on my experience there really doesn't seem to be anything I can do if the op is willing to blow all of his cooldowns to kill me. My goal in a 1v1 fight is just survive long enough for my team to come help me (if they're good).

 

Like I said, I don't neccesarily have a problem with a class designed like this, but I do feel like they could use some love in PVE and the only way to balance that without going exclusive PVP and PVE functionality is to tone down their CC or burst.

 

Just my 2 cents.

 

Good Ops don't go hunting for 1v1s.

 

I let you in on a trade secret. Good Ops hunt down people who are vulnerable and distracted.

 

Case and point - Mercs who blow load casting Tracer Missile. I wait until their Heat hits max...Then I come in. Why? Because he is zoned out focusing on someone else, and more importantly he needs to now waste his vent to even stand a chance to do anything.

 

or

 

A Hybrid Sorc...Watch what they attack, they will blow their slow, blow their stun, wait for their shield to run out...All they have left is force speed and knockback. Enter the Op who was casually waiting for the perfect moment.

 

If you get defeated by an Op, it's usually not when you were standing still, just chilling all cooldowns up, no heat. From cold, most classes can hold their own against an Ops.

 

The hallmark of a good Op is that when they come out of stealth, they ensure that their team is getting the advntage through CCing a healer, gibbing the low-hp guy hiding behind the pillar, providing the final focus point for a DPS train, or something to that matter. It's tough to stop that, but for the duration that an Op is setting up, you are effectively up one player.

[Chaosmagistrate]

and if you are not a BM heavily armored target and you only have 16k hps in PvP gear then it's incredibly likely that they will easily kill you outright without any chance to respond in any way if your PvP break free ability is on cooldown.

 

I can agree with your assessment of their needs but in my mind the more important thing for the game is that NO CLASS should have the ability to take a similarly geared player from 100% to dead with their only avenue of response being the break free ability.

 

I haven't leveled an agent or a smuggler so it's not my place to say what they need but seems like the easiest fix would be to put a short cooldown on hidden strike.

 

I'm in half-bm, Champ/2pc Columi, with any Bm resocketed for power surge and crit-surge.

 

Getting 100->0 under stun lock only happens to people with zero expertise and sub13k HP.

 

If you are remotely in the 400+ expertise range, you cannot be 4-globaled. Yes, you can probably still die and lose like what I do to some Sages, but that generally involves at least 10+ globals not to mention all that BS chasing:cool:

 

Prior to the nerfs, one could be killed inside the Knockdown, but now, not it is impossible for similar gearing.

Edited March 8, 2012 by Chaosmagistrate

[hulkweazel]

They have an extremely long duration, and potent snare, however. As any class other than sorc/assassin you can't kite them if they know what they're doing. Then if you do get distance they can use flash bang.

 

I don't have a problem with operatives being the king of 1v1 combat, I think it's a neat idea and since the game isn't balanced around 1v1 combat I don't have a problem with the idea of a class dominating in 1v1.

 

I do think that it would be wise to give operatives sustained damage a little bit of love (simply so they aren't so useless in PVE) and maybe in exchange for that curtail either their burst or CC.

 

I don't know anything about the operatives class. I'm a valor rank 55 PT. I stomp crappy operatives all the time, but when someone who's good picks up the class I don't have a chance.

 

Am I being outplayed? It wouldn't be the first time, it's entirely possible, but based on my experience there really doesn't seem to be anything I can do if the op is willing to blow all of his cooldowns to kill me. My goal in a 1v1 fight is just survive long enough for my team to come help me (if they're good).

 

Like I said, I don't neccesarily have a problem with a class designed like this, but I do feel like they could use some love in PVE and the only way to balance that without going exclusive PVP and PVE functionality is to tone down their CC or burst.

 

Just my 2 cents.

Oxgygen, you can learn from this post. Actual, reasoned arguments.

 

Ops are opportunists. They find a weak target and take them down. A good Op will only strike when they see someone isolated, in a 1v1 fight (Thus making it 2v1) or any Sorc/sage since they are cloth wearers and IMO one of the most dangerous threats. So the trick is, don't isolate yourself. Work as a team and that minimizes the damage Ops can do.

 

Second, Ops work best in stealth. Their goal is to take someone down quickly and re-stealth. However, they can't stealth if they are still in combat (Unless they blow their cooldown). So if you see one unstealth, doesn't matter if you can do any damage to them or not - a simple attack will force them into combat for longer than they wanted. If they are uncloaked and in combat, it minimizes their damage and it minimizes their survivability. Also, it goes without saying but always use your DoTs on them. Good Ops will first use Evasion, then CS, but not everyone does and it can really mess them up.

 

Third, kite them. They are a melee class with no gap closer and a few limited ranged abilities.

 

Fourth, AoE breaks stealth. As a PT, you have a TON of AoE abilities that you can use, and you even have a stealth detecting AoE.

 

As an Op, I prey on people that don't follow these steps. But against GOOD players that DO know about this and follow these steps, my Op is nearly useless.

[Ossos]

They have an extremely long duration, and potent snare, however. As any class other than sorc/assassin you can't kite them if they know what they're doing. Then if you do get distance they can use flash bang.

 

I don't have a problem with operatives being the king of 1v1 combat, I think it's a neat idea and since the game isn't balanced around 1v1 combat I don't have a problem with the idea of a class dominating in 1v1.

 

I do think that it would be wise to give operatives sustained damage a little bit of love (simply so they aren't so useless in PVE) and maybe in exchange for that curtail either their burst or CC.

 

I don't know anything about the operatives class. I'm a valor rank 55 PT. I stomp crappy operatives all the time, but when someone who's good picks up the class I don't have a chance.

 

Am I being outplayed? It wouldn't be the first time, it's entirely possible, but based on my experience there really doesn't seem to be anything I can do if the op is willing to blow all of his cooldowns to kill me. My goal in a 1v1 fight is just survive long enough for my team to come help me (if they're good).

 

Like I said, I don't neccesarily have a problem with a class designed like this, but I do feel like they could use some love in PVE and the only way to balance that without going exclusive PVP and PVE functionality is to tone down their CC or burst.

 

Just my 2 cents.

 

Ah!

 

I play a Vanguard (Iron Fist Spec) so I'm not used to being slowed. If I get in trouble I'll either shield (free from movement impairment or just leap to someone to gain some distance). However, I can see your point.

 

If they decrease their burst, then they'll have to increase their survivability and damage (non-bursty). This potentially turns them into Mauraders.

[Comfterbilly]

deleted Edited March 8, 2012 by Comfterbilly

[Redmarx]

Operatives/scoundrels are definitely not OP.

 

They only kill bad players who don't understand defensive cooldowns and cc, have no pots, never get healed and don't know what guard/taunt are.

 

If anything they need a minor buff along with snipers/gunslingers.

[hulkweazel]

Operatives/scoundrels are definitely not OP.

 

They only kill bad players who don't understand defensive cooldowns and cc, have no pots, never get healed and don't know what guard/taunt are.

 

If anything they need a minor buff along with snipers/gunslingers.

This. Thankfully there are so many bad players that I can still do well in WZs.

[--Oxygenthief--]

Good Ops don't go hunting for 1v1s.

 

I let you in on a trade secret. Good Ops hunt down people who are vulnerable and distracted.

 

Case and point - Mercs who blow load casting Tracer Missile. I wait until their Heat hits max...Then I come in. Why? Because he is zoned out focusing on someone else, and more importantly he needs to now waste his vent to even stand a chance to do anything.

 

or

 

A Hybrid Sorc...Watch what they attack, they will blow their slow, blow their stun, wait for their shield to run out...All they have left is force speed and knockback. Enter the Op who was casually waiting for the perfect moment.

 

If you get defeated by an Op, it's usually not when you were standing still, just chilling all cooldowns up, no heat. From cold, most classes can hold their own against an Ops.

 

The hallmark of a good Op is that when they come out of stealth, they ensure that their team is getting the advntage through CCing a healer, gibbing the low-hp guy hiding behind the pillar, providing the final focus point for a DPS train, or something to that matter. It's tough to stop that, but for the duration that an Op is setting up, you are effectively up one player.

 

I really appreciate the insight Chaosmagistrate. Reading your statement makes me think that the OP isn't as bad as I am making it out to be. I can see the logic in having a class that must be played in such a way.

 

I got upset after the 120 second round I had mentioned. When you get nailed by the scoundrel/operative the first time after putting yourself in a precarious situation you have no room to complain. But after respawning, and intentionally going after that same scoundrel/operative, seeing him (not cloaked) and attacking him when he focusses in on someone else you should be able to kill him. But I wasn't, no one was... In fact, the people on my team stopped attacking everyone esle and waited to nail this one guy. He was still able to uncloak, attack, kill his prey, and recloak with 3 others attacking him. Squishy my butt. After a few seconds of being cloaked he did the exact same thing to one of the 3 remaining and continued until no one was left. There was no one attacking as this was a "plant the bomb" pvp match and he was just camping beneath our spawn point by himself.

 

I am not a world class pvper, will never claim to be, but no player should be able to do what he did, regarless of ability or advantage. Reading the responses I think that perhaps my grievance is more geared to the current pvp system rather than the operative/scoundrel class. If higher level/speced players are able to hold their own while lower level players are not, again regardless of skill, then the system is broken. So if it is ok to have an operative/scoundrel capable of dealing 13+K damage in a few seconds wouldn't it make sense to ensure that that player would never be pitted against another player with less than that amount? Burst damage is one thing but instant kills is a completely different ballgame.

 

Again, thanks Chaosmagistrate for the response much more helpful than others (hulkwheezer).

[Keapoe]

Warzones are currently filled with reroll operatives/scoundrels. Every warzone I've played in the last 3 days has been made up of mid to high lvl everything else and low lvl operatives/scoundels.

 

So yes I call them fotm right now judging by what I'm seeing.

 

You sir are a dirty liar and you will burn for that statement.

 

Everyone complains about Conceal Operatives.. Play one.. Just a little bit. Here is a bit of education for you since you obviously haven't ever played one.

 

No defensive mitigation

1 Stun and 1 Flash Bag - Both which give full resolve

Stealth Opener - Gives full resolve

Has the ability to Vanish.. once every 2 mins

 

Use your CC break either on the waylay or the follow up stun, dont turn your back to them. If you do that, there is nothing they can do. They can not soak damage at all and will drop like a rock.

 

If you die to an op these days... I dont know what else to tell you. Your doing something wrong.

 

I have an Op, a Guardian and a Sorc, and by far the Operative is the worse of the 3 as far as concealment goes.

 

Also, try using health packs and other consumables..