Why are we never the squeaky wheel?

[sosolidshoe]

Some variation of this thought pops into my head in every MMO I've played, and the response from Bioware to the issues of the PvP community today brought it forth again.

 

Everyone who plays MMOs knows exactly what gets changes made to the game, even if they prefer not to acknowledge it; complaining, on a massive scale. We know this, but the RP community always seems to try the same thing in each game - wishlists, polite requests, reasoned arguments. And the developers always respond the same way - by completely ignoring us in favour of fixing whatever issue raiders or PvP'rs are ruining the General forum over at the time.

 

I've seen people argue that we simply don't have the same numbers as other MMO sub-communities, so we don't deserve attention unless every other aspect of the game has been polished to perfection, and the devs have a free ten minutes in between expansion packs, but that doesn't add up, does it? Are there really less roleplayers than hardcore raiders or PvP'rs? I doubt it, considering the server distribution. I doubt it doubly when you consider that only a small subset of those communities actually creates the forum furor.

 

The simple fact is that developers take us for granted - they know that the setting is the biggest factor, and that as long as they provide us with the absolute bare-minimum necessary, we'll keep playing until we get bored with the RP, which takes far longer than it does for other groups to become bored. They also know that we won't be the ones making dozens of threads about a topic of complaint, constantly bumping them up, sending constant tweets at the devs, or travelling around the online gaming world badmouthing the game to anyone who'll listen. Knowing both those things, why on earth would they ever address our complaints, our issues?

 

Do we simply not care enough to make a big enough fuss? Some might say that RP'rs are just more mature, but there's plenty of evidence to the contrary in all the drama and arguing that goes on over styles of RP, or what is and isn't a power-emote, and so on. It can't be that our issues are trivial, because that's a matter of perspective; to us they are not, and to many of us the issues which are prioritised are the ones that seem trivial or pointless.

 

Why are we so unwilling to take a stand for our own interests in the only way which has ever been shown to work?

[Sacredless]

I think it's a bit early to start asking questions as to 'why we never do stuff like this' or 'why don't we get any attention'. SWTOR has done something very simple, yet hugely effective to affect our gameplay; it brings aspects from an off-line RPG to an MMO. That's new. And it breaks barriers for people who were still wondering about what RP actually is. In fact, a lot of newcomers that I have seen in this game seem more competent at RP than certain people that claim to have massive experience.

 

Give it time. We are at the brink of something here. Invest in that for now.

[Sacredless]

@ Kalfear

 

Naming policy is for another topic. Please copy-paste it there.

 

An absence of something does not mean that the developers do not care. It just is what it is; your desire for a certain implementation. Just because your parents don't want to give you another bike doesn't mean that they don't care.

 

In the end, what I believe asking for this sort of gratification, as you call it, leads to a manner of spoonfeeding. I am not sure if you have noticed, but the lack of chat bubbles, interactive furniture and so forth has not deterred any roleplayer determined to roleplay. In fact, it seems to have encouraged roleplay in my eyes rather than discouraged it. The only reason why people RP less right now than let's say Argent Dawn EU (which is quite the exception on the rule) is because the game has so much to offer to us right now. We need to take all of that in first, before we can continue.

 

Already, I have had a lot of very excellent RP and I've been here barely a week.

Edited January 5, 2012 by Sacredless

[Zavia]

Some variation of this thought pops into my head in every MMO I've played, and the response from Bioware to the issues of the PvP community today brought it forth again.

 

Everyone who plays MMOs knows exactly what gets changes made to the game, even if they prefer not to acknowledge it; complaining, on a massive scale. We know this, but the RP community always seems to try the same thing in each game - wishlists, polite requests, reasoned arguments. And the developers always respond the same way - by completely ignoring us in favour of fixing whatever issue raiders or PvP'rs are ruining the General forum over at the time.

 

I've seen people argue that we simply don't have the same numbers as other MMO sub-communities, so we don't deserve attention unless every other aspect of the game has been polished to perfection, and the devs have a free ten minutes in between expansion packs, but that doesn't add up, does it? Are there really less roleplayers than hardcore raiders or PvP'rs? I doubt it, considering the server distribution. I doubt it doubly when you consider that only a small subset of those communities actually creates the forum furor.

 

The simple fact is that developers take us for granted - they know that the setting is the biggest factor, and that as long as they provide us with the absolute bare-minimum necessary, we'll keep playing until we get bored with the RP, which takes far longer than it does for other groups to become bored. They also know that we won't be the ones making dozens of threads about a topic of complaint, constantly bumping them up, sending constant tweets at the devs, or travelling around the online gaming world badmouthing the game to anyone who'll listen. Knowing both those things, why on earth would they ever address our complaints, our issues?

 

Do we simply not care enough to make a big enough fuss? Some might say that RP'rs are just more mature, but there's plenty of evidence to the contrary in all the drama and arguing that goes on over styles of RP, or what is and isn't a power-emote, and so on. It can't be that our issues are trivial, because that's a matter of perspective; to us they are not, and to many of us the issues which are prioritised are the ones that seem trivial or pointless.

 

Why are we so unwilling to take a stand for our own interests in the only way which has ever been shown to work?

 

 

Excellent post. I've asked myself the same question several times. It's annoying when one sees the playstyle with the loudest voice get things fixed, or content added when our own playstyle gets ignored, put on the back burner, or gets fed scraps compared to what other playstyles get.

 

I've heard all the justification, and in truth I can understand why developers address the squeaky wheel first, but understanding why something happens doesn't mean it's right that it happens that way. I'd rather RPers not become the squeaky wheel in order to bring attention to our issues, but it does work.

 

I don't want to see RPers rant and rave on forums about this or that, but I do think if we have issues they should be respected and addressed. We normally are the more mature group who takes an adult approach. Usually the group who acts more maturely is the group that gets the most respect, but in my experience that's never been the case for the RP/developer relationship. It appears we're always left on the back burner while developers pump out content for PvE and PvP left and right. Perhaps this does happen because developers know we won't be the squeaky wheel and will swallow whatever tiny morsel they give us. Then we'll turn around and praise the devs to high heaven for their support.

 

I've been done with doing that for a while now, and have no qualms about raising my voice to be heard. And one can express their discontent without ranting or trying to act like some anon bully on a message board to those who may not agree. And when one does express their discontent it does not mean all they're doing is complaining. I don't know about anyone else but I'm fully capable of compartmentalizing my activities enough that if I find an area I don't like I can express that point yet still do other things.

 

Anyway, I do not like that so many RPers think they always have to turn the other cheek and just accept whatever comes or doesn't come. I really wish we'd stand up for ourselves much more than we do. We do our part. We create wonderful characters for our RP. We create events, guilds, and anything we can think of because we have the creativity to do that.

 

If we need nothing to RP with than what is the point of being in an MMO? Why not just stick with tabletop or browser based RP? MMOs, in my opinion, should be the next step for RPers where we can have that book our character says they're reading actually be a book - A pixel book, but a book nonetheless.

 

MMOs should be a partnership between developers and RPers; developers and PvPers; developers and PvEers. A partnership between developers and their playerbase. I can always see that partnership work for PvE and PvP, but it's often failed when it comes to RP and we, all to often, sit back and let it happen. That just is not how it should be. I don't want to see us ranting but I do want to see us stand up and stick up for ourselves.

 

Again, excellent post.

[Chainedfei]

From my own personal experience, it seems as if the battle is generally fought in a manner that isn't conducive to change. I, as a long time roleplayer, recognize there are different playstyles. Pick up one of the guides for running a game for tabletop some time and it will tell you the same.

 

There are people who name their character punny names, and the roleplayers who like immersion dislike them.

 

There are rules lawyers who don't see why acting in character is important as much as if it will get them a bigger bonus at the end of things.

 

The hard core roleplayers, who deeply care about their characters, stories and their interactions with the worlds are a minority even in tabletop games. People don't tend to play that way.

 

I do, but then, I tend to be *****y and broody when something happens to my character I don't like. I recognize my personal flaws in the matter.

 

As it relates to MMO's, from my experience the dialogue of the game is most impacted by the dialogue a player produces; garbage in, garbage out.

 

I play a Psychotic Trooper Chick named Korinne on The Ebon Hawk. She's vaguely sociopathic about bringing the violence. I also play a straight laced, quiet Jedi Shadow who tries to serve as a good example for the Trandoshan that follows her around.

 

I pepper most of my speech in general with roleplaying talk. I also do joke around, sometimes OOC, in General. The human mind needs emotional breaks from intense roleplaying at times.

 

I have also been trolled in most MMO's for roleplaying in general chat. People tell me it is only for asking advice and general conversation outside of game, and that I should join an RP chat channel if I want to RP.

 

Which I've done. Did it a bit in WoW... problem being, there was never all that many people there.

 

Roleplaying is inherantly a social thing, and there are people out there playing who are roleplayers and don't even know it. Inspiring new roleplayers is a good thing. Even if at first the new players suck at making characters or stories that are compelling, at least you'll have planted something that might bear better fruit down the road.

 

If you wish to encourage roleplaying, you have to inhabit the role you play and defy social convention to do it.

[Sivri]

If there was a magical way of getting everyone to post on the forums here and be active in the attempt to try and reach higher forces with our suggestions, I'm sure we could use it, but when I've talked to the people I tend to roleplay with, they just don't think it's possible to reach anywhere by posting on a forum, it didn't work in games like WoW so why should it here?

So they don't do it. And that's very hard to change.

 

In the one game (Rift), where I have seen roleplayers reach the developers and actually get treated as a larger group of people that also deserve some new things in a patch, we had a developer "pledge" to the roleplayers cause. It happened at a time where even I thought all hope was lost, the previous attempts of developer contact hadn't carried much fruit and just about everyone was feeling neglected.

 

Though I think it's a bit too early to state if we'll get the same treatment as we always to in games here, or if we'll be heard. One thing is for sure though, no matter which it is, we shouldn't fall silent and stop suggesting things. We don't have to turn into the equivelant of a three-year-old whiny child who's not getting their will in order to get any attention, that's for sure. And even if it's "less-effective" to go about things the polite way, I'd rather see us keep that attitude rather than "Give me this or I'll quit!"-attitude.

[JadeBranch]

To address the topic creator,

 

We do have pretty small numbers. And while we have plenty of immaturity that goes on in our community, the RP is still plenty mature when you compare it to the screaming and raging that goes on between raiders and pvpers.

 

The RP community doesn't speak up loudly enough though is the bottom line of it though. It doesn't have anything to do with complaining. On the GW2 guru forums-- (arenanet refuses to run their own forums so fanbase ones are the only ones that exist. And that is the biggest GW forum) --RPers were struggling just to get an RP forum and some of the developers were even posting on the forums saying that they didn't know what RPers want.

 

I haven't checked in on the GW2 community in a while. Hope it's going well enough.

 

I'm not sure why we don't speak 'loud' enough. Maybe it's because we post in lore and RP forums as opposed to general forums. Or maybe it's because our voices are drowned out by the raiders or pvpers.

[sosolidshoe]

To address the topic creator,

 

We do have pretty small numbers. And while we have plenty of immaturity that goes on in our community, the RP is still plenty mature when you compare it to the screaming and raging that goes on between raiders and pvpers.

 

The RP community doesn't speak up loudly enough though is the bottom line of it though. It doesn't have anything to do with complaining. On the GW2 guru forums-- (arenanet refuses to run their own forums so fanbase ones are the only ones that exist. And that is the biggest GW forum) --RPers were struggling just to get an RP forum and some of the developers were even posting on the forums saying that they didn't know what RPers want.

 

I haven't checked in on the GW2 community in a while. Hope it's going well enough.

 

I'm not sure why we don't speak 'loud' enough. Maybe it's because we post in lore and RP forums as opposed to general forums. Or maybe it's because our voices are drowned out by the raiders or pvpers.

 

See I don't buy this. I quite enjoy forum-warrioring, it's a curse my time in EvE Online left me with, so I spend a decent amount of time reading the various forums and replying(although I'm having to self-moderate around here, the mods can be both trigger happy and arbitrary at times), and what I see are the same few dozen people keeping their issues prominent. Yes, the PvP and raider threads get hundreds of replies, but if you go through page-by-page you begin to see that the only reason they get those hundreds of replies is because of a dedicated core of complainers who make thread after thread, and keep those threads on the front page with bump after bump.

 

I agree that it's depressing, and I agree that it's distasteful, but from my observations the only conclusion I could draw is that complaining loud, long, and often works, and that more than anything else, if a community wants attention paid to their issues, they have to be willing to generate massive amounts of bad word-of-mouth. It's the "nuclear option" of dev-player interaction.

 

I'm not even talking about huge sweeping stuff like player housing, or a massive shift towards sandbox features, or even a drastic increase in name enforcement on RP servers; we're playing a game where it just never occurred to the devs that putting the only set of Imperial Trooper armour in the game exclusively on the Collectors Edition vendor would inhibit roleplay(this is my personal bugbear). That, to me, just says that as far as Bioware are concerned, we're not even at the periphery of their development process.

 

So the question is; is maintaining the moral high ground worth being ignored?

Edited January 5, 2012 by sosolidshoe

[chavoda]

/shrug.. I Just stop paying if they cant realize some of the basic needs, sure I might even play a month longer after the first 30 "free"days but theres a lot of interesting games on the horizon who probably do basic rp mechanics way better then sw:tor.

 

Perhaps I just dint expect as much from sw:tor to start whit, Mass products usually do not lead to quality.

[Civilix]

In general roleplayers are just to nice, if you always compromise you are going to get the short end when dealing with people that are only working for their extreme view.

 

This is game theory in action, it has been explained to many a student around the world, and i suggest to read up on it if you are intrested in why things happen the way they do.

[Majspuffen]

I almost feel like it's too late.

 

I personally can't get into roleplaying whilst there are no chat bubbles and while the world is so "uninteractive" (not a word?). So I've done nothing to help improve roleplaying on the few servers that there are, except for having a proper name.

 

It's just like WoW, all over again. Not all people who wants to roleplay are done with PvE and PvP. I am one such player who wants it all; and I think that roleplaying has the most longevity of the three categories. It's extremely difficult to get into again because of how the servers are (or perhaps the community is a better word). Perhaps they are not as bad as I think they are, perhaps I'm just cynical because of the last few years in WoW... but I've seen enough "Pwnzors" and "Bobafats" to bury my face in the palm of my hand and think that roleplaying won't have its place in this game.

 

Back in The Burning Crusade (WoW 2007-2008) I was a "stronger" roleplayer, because I did it so often and I had a lot of people "backing me up". When approached by a troll I could dissuade them in-character without having to resort to whispers or the famous ((marks)). I don't have that confidence anymore. Me and a friend tried to get into RP at the start of Cataclysm (WoW nov 2010) and we had some random people following us, staring as though we were animals in some zoo. I suppose it's part of the roleplaying, acting and all... but it's not easy when the audience is likely sitting and saying "omg lol people still roleplay?". Or worse, when non-RPers join in with the RP trying to be funny. Call me weak, but it's very hard for me to ignore them. I don't lash out at them, I simply don't roleplay.

 

So there's my cynisism. I actually approve of bioware for being honest enough and stating that there won't be any enforced rules on RP servers. My experience is WoW, and let's be honest, how well did blizzard enforce their rules? I reported someone with a name that ended with "lol". A few weeks later I saw that same player, this time he had the same name but it ended with "qt" this time. That's how good blizzard are at enforcing their rules. Like so many others have said, it's down to the players to enforce roleplaying. But we do not have the tools to do so, except for a /ignore command. That wouldn't stop a bounty hunter from spamming his flamethrowers at people and it wouldn't stop a sith inquisitor from spamming overload.

 

So really, is it down to the players? What can Bioware do? If we get a naming policy, Bioware will be so occupied with enforcing name changes on people that they won't have time to fix bugs. If they would truly live up to their policy...

 

But then, who knows. If they are very strict about it, perhaps non-rpers would stop rolling on RP-servers altogether, which in time would make their job easier. I don't know. I just don't know. Perhaps I'll try and join a dedicated RP-guild at some point.

[JadeBranch]

See I don't buy this. I quite enjoy forum-warrioring, it's a curse my time in EvE Online left me with, so I spend a decent amount of time reading the various forums and replying(although I'm having to self-moderate around here, the mods can be both trigger happy and arbitrary at times), and what I see are the same few dozen people keeping their issues prominent. Yes, the PvP and raider threads get hundreds of replies, but if you go through page-by-page you begin to see that the only reason they get those hundreds of replies is because of a dedicated core of complainers who make thread after thread, and keep those threads on the front page with bump after bump.

 

I agree that it's depressing, and I agree that it's distasteful, but from my observations the only conclusion I could draw is that complaining loud, long, and often works, and that more than anything else, if a community wants attention paid to their issues, they have to be willing to generate massive amounts of bad word-of-mouth. It's the "nuclear option" of dev-player interaction.

 

I'm not even talking about huge sweeping stuff like player housing, or a massive shift towards sandbox features, or even a drastic increase in name enforcement on RP servers; we're playing a game where it just never occurred to the devs that putting the only set of Imperial Trooper armour in the game exclusively on the Collectors Edition vendor would inhibit roleplay(this is my personal bugbear). That, to me, just says that as far as Bioware are concerned, we're not even at the periphery of their development process.

 

So the question is; is maintaining the moral high ground worth being ignored?

 

 

 

This community does seem to talk about its problems more often than other communities I've seen. I think it's because there are a few glaring problems that seem like they would be a no brainer to add in. (Sittable chairs and chat bubbles) However, all these threads are in the roleplaying forum. Does anyone from BW even think to read the RP forums? If they do is it only one measly person who doesn't care or doesn't think our problems are big enough to report?

 

 

Maybe the reason RPers' problems never get fixed is because what has already been said--because we are too small an audience for them to accept. Or because all that is important is adding more gameplay and the stuff we want is just 'fluff' and not stuff they should rush to put in.

 

I wouldn't call it fluff though. :/

[Zavia]

If there was a magical way of getting everyone to post on the forums here and be active in the attempt to try and reach higher forces with our suggestions, I'm sure we could use it, but when I've talked to the people I tend to roleplay with, they just don't think it's possible to reach anywhere by posting on a forum, it didn't work in games like WoW so why should it here?

So they don't do it. And that's very hard to change.

 

In the one game (Rift), where I have seen roleplayers reach the developers and actually get treated as a larger group of people that also deserve some new things in a patch, we had a developer "pledge" to the roleplayers cause. It happened at a time where even I thought all hope was lost, the previous attempts of developer contact hadn't carried much fruit and just about everyone was feeling neglected.

 

Though I think it's a bit too early to state if we'll get the same treatment as we always to in games here, or if we'll be heard. One thing is for sure though, no matter which it is, we shouldn't fall silent and stop suggesting things. We don't have to turn into the equivelant of a three-year-old whiny child who's not getting their will in order to get any attention, that's for sure. And even if it's "less-effective" to go about things the polite way, I'd rather see us keep that attitude rather than "Give me this or I'll quit!"-attitude.

 

 

Reading your response made me think more about my response. RPers have stood up for themselves in past MMOs and have done it very successfully. It just seems to take a monumental occurrence to get us to do so, or it takes a small dedicated group with the fortitude to weather the storm of getting an issue heard.

 

In M59 RPers were a very tight group, yet small. I remember the first time I got PKed I got tells from RPers I'd never even associated with asking me who and where where. A group of them hunted down the player that killed me and many of them gave me stuff to replace what I lost. This is where I believe anti-PKers were born and most of them were RPers looking to protect and stick up for other RPers.

 

In UO when RPers were harassed to no end we did go to the forums to express our outrage with the developers, and we also protested in game. We got results for our efforts. I'm not going to debate what the devs did but my point remains that we did come together and voice our concerns.

 

In EQ, we started without RP servers. 10 or so of us RPers say on the forums day after day dealing with a ton of BS from other players and from McQuaid(sp?) trying to get them to add RP servers. They didn't do that until after Brad left, but what got me was the producer came to Lum the Mad's old site and actually apologized for not doing it sooner. So again, we were heard.

 

In Rift as the person I quoted mentioned, we had an issue where the lead CS made a disrespectful analogy about RPers, and admitting they did not follow their own naming policies when answering petitions. The fallout was amazing. Sure there was some ranting, but the majority of the comments were very well thought-out and intelligent. We got a response from the lead producer, Hartsman. It took them months and months later to actually act on anything, but again the point is that RPers can come together and stand up for themselves, but it takes something huge to get us to do it.

 

We're used to /ignoring and changing how we play to suit others who clearly do not respect us or our playstyle. I don't pay to make up RP stories for someone who has no respect for RP, or to make allowances for someone who can't take the time to pick a name that fits in the policies. I pay to enjoy my playstyle. RP is an activity that is best enjoyed when shared between people who appreciate it, or who are interested in learning more about it.

 

I just think we're too meek and nice, as someone else said. Most of us shy away from conflict and make due with the scraps we're given because that's what RPers do, right? Well, we definitely don't have to, and we can stand up for ourselves. We just don't do it enough for whatever reason, and it takes a lot of abuse for us to get past so we can finally speak up ourselves.

 

I don't buy into the "just make due" and "meekness" frame of mind, and have no problem speaking up when I think something is wrong. If you do not speak up than nothing will ever get changed, because the devs won't even know there's an issue they may need to address.

[Darth_Slaine]

[*]Implement a loose "smell test" rule for naming on RP servers.

 

There is the problem.

 

People will find your criteria either too loose or too restrictive. We already have common-sense loose naming rules yet people can't stop complaining about how they aren't tough enough.

 

There is no way to judge whether a name is "RP enough" because RP comes in many shapes and styles. It is only possible to judge whether a name is generally offensive or infringes on copyright... something already addressed in the present rules.

Edited January 6, 2012 by Darth_Slaine

[Kraygh]

While not strictly within the topic, what another wrote earlier in the thread and I'm paraphrasing "The dev's stated we don't know what Rp'r's want."

 

Well, what I would love to see, is an option to create an also cutscene when a group of rp'r's engage in conversation panning around to show the characters features in close up as happens in the regular flashpoint cutscene. As the technolgy is already there it shouldn't be that hard to enact. It's not like our dialogue would be be anything but typed anyway.

 

As too the main topic of the thread, without sounding incredibly arrogant, (which I'm also certain I will) the reason we don't throw hissy fits is because the majority of roleplayers (and I'm not talking about the half Wookie half Trandoshan, super duper midichlorion count, born out of the force, master of every lightsabre style including Vaapad which won't exist for three thosand years Mary Sues here) is because we carry ourselves with a gentle.. dignity.

[LordBaldric]

#1 I'd like some *********** chat bubbles!

[Kolbenito]

The only rp thing really missing fromthe game is there are not enough chairs you can sit in at places where it would be normal to sit. Cantinas come to mind.

 

When the game has graphical bugs that give people migraines and a host of other bugs that need to be addressed you have to expect them to focus on that.

 

I have strong opinions on rp names, but you can read that in the thread about it if interested.

 

Biggest thing rp has going against it for attention time is that the devs know you are basically going to use the existing environment and story to fabricate something to keep yourself entertained. This will never be on the priority list while bugs, exploits and the mad rush to keep content churning out are on the todo list.

 

Just the way it is.

[Zavia]

...

 

Biggest thing rp has going against it for attention time is that the devs know you are basically going to use the existing environment and story to fabricate something to keep yourself entertained. This will never be on the priority list while bugs, exploits and the mad rush to keep content churning out are on the todo list.

 

Just the way it is.

 

 

I can agree with the first sentence from what I quoted, but the rest, no.

 

How does something get on the "todo" list? Usually, by being an issue that the devs feel the game needs to make it better and more enjoyable for their playerbase. How do they decide that? By listening to their community, researching their metrics (Bioware is big on metrics it seems), and by other means.

 

So how do PvEers get their changes and content on the "todo" list? By voicing their concerns. How do PvPers get their changes and content on the "todo" list? By voicing their concerns. How do RPers get their content? We generally do not because we're less likely to voice our concerns, which is what the OP is talking about.

 

So despite your feeling that that's "Just the way it is". It most assuredly does not have to be that way. As has been mentioned in other posts, when we do voice our concerns we do get change.

 

What most generally happens is we do not give voice to our concerns, so end up having to make a castle out of the left over evening paper with coffee stains on it, or just envisioning the castle in our heads, while PvE and PvPers get shiny new blocks.

[Darth_Slaine]

Part of the issue is that PVE'ers and PVP'ers have problems with the game mechanics. RPers mostly have problems with other players.

 

If the PVP system improves or PVE then everyone benefits... if resources are spent making sure we have bio windows, or changeable hats or whatever, that really only benefits us.

 

And as the naming controversy shows, the problem that RPers want to complain about is other people breaking their immersion by playing the game differently.

 

I'm an RPer and I would put that on a very low priority list.

[Hrisskar]

an extension of the default policy to support an RP server.

 

No extension is required. A roleplaying server is merely an encouraging environment for roleplay, nothing more than that. A ridiculous amount of suspension of disbelief is required to properly immerse oneself in an online medium where floating combat text bursts forth from the flesh of Jedi and Sith. A similarly levitating avatar name is no different, especially considering roleplaying is a choice (a subjective choice, going back to whether Marshmallow is appropriate or not) that not every player on the realm will, and should be forced, to choose.

 

If you're unhappy with Bioware's logical unwillingness to bow to arbitrary demands on what constitutes "proper roleplay", that's tough.

Edited January 7, 2012 by Hrisskar

[Darth_Slaine]

No extension is required. A roleplaying server is merely an encouraging environment for roleplay, nothing more than that. A ridiculous amount of suspension of disbelief is required to properly immerse oneself in an online medium where floating combat text bursts forth from the flesh of Jedi and Sith. A similarly levitating avatar name is no different, especially considering roleplaying is a choice (a subjective choice, going back to whether Marshmallow is appropriate or not) that not every player on the realm will, and should be forced, to choose.

 

If you're unhappy with Bioware's logical unwillingness to bow to arbitrary demands on what constitutes "proper roleplay", that's tough.

 

You make very good points!

Edited January 9, 2012 by Meluna

[sosolidshoe]

No extension is required. A roleplaying server is merely an encouraging environment for roleplay, nothing more than that. A ridiculous amount of suspension of disbelief is required to properly immerse oneself in an online medium where floating combat text bursts forth from the flesh of Jedi and Sith. A similarly levitating avatar name is no different, especially considering roleplaying is a choice (a subjective choice, going back to whether Marshmallow is appropriate or not) that not every player on the realm will, and should be forced, to choose.

 

If you're unhappy with Bioware's logical unwillingness to bow to arbitrary demands on what constitutes "proper roleplay", that's tough.

 

Yeah, I'm getting a bit sick of this kind of attitude I keep seeing from some RP'rs - you are not being cool and mature by demanding that everybody should just shut up about things they dislike.

 

And in case you were unaware, you can turn off combat text and nameplates in the options; I've had them off since day one and have no intention of turning them back on.

Edited January 9, 2012 by Meluna

[Darth_Slaine]

While a PVPer might insist that PVP abilities need to be rebalanced or what have you, he is not saying "let us constrain the gameplay options of other subscribers who have an equal right to game resources as we do."

 

RP complaints are either about other players that are "doing it wrong" or, like your own "personal bugbear" purely cosmetic features like having more sets of non-functional dress-up armor.

 

Chat bubbles and server forums are perhaps the most useful things that RPers are demanding. Maybe if we focused on these things that can help to build communities rather than trying to work out new ways Bioware can police RP servers for heretics we would achieve more profitable results.

 

The game has done a great deal for RPers. it is time we started doing some things for ourselves.

Edited January 9, 2012 by Meluna

[sosolidshoe]

I'd urge you to name a few of the "many things" the game has done for RP'rs, I wager you'll struggle to find anything beyond "it exists".

 

I'm tired of people who prefer other gameplay styles telling me that I'm not as important as they are, that I should just go and sit in the corner and play with my cardboard-box until such time as everyone else has everything else they want. But I'm even more tired of hearing the same coming from members of our own community. If you genuinely don't think our style of gameplay is worth any dev attention, that's your choice, but stop telling those of us who do to stop trying, and stop acting like you're better than us because you're happy with being considered second-class.

Edited January 9, 2012 by Meluna

[Kolbenito]

I can agree with the first sentence from what I quoted, but the rest, no.

 

How does something get on the "todo" list? Usually, by being an issue that the devs feel the game needs to make it better and more enjoyable for their playerbase. How do they decide that? By listening to their community, researching their metrics (Bioware is big on metrics it seems), and by other means.

 

So how do PvEers get their changes and content on the "todo" list? By voicing their concerns. How do PvPers get their changes and content on the "todo" list? By voicing their concerns. How do RPers get their content? We generally do not because we're less likely to voice our concerns, which is what the OP is talking about.

 

So despite your feeling that that's "Just the way it is". It most assuredly does not have to be that way. As has been mentioned in other posts, when we do voice our concerns we do get change.

 

What most generally happens is we do not give voice to our concerns, so end up having to make a castle out of the left over evening paper with coffee stains on it, or just envisioning the castle in our heads, while PvE and PvPers get shiny new blocks.

 

What specific things would you want to see put in the game to enchance RP?

 

- Chat bubbles

- Sitting

- ...

 

 

I would like to see chat bubbles and sitting. For me the chat bubbles are a nice to have, but sitting seems really bizarre that so few chairs especially in social areas have the feature.

 

I could maybe see a feature that allows you to put in your back story for other people to read when they inspect you since there aren't mods in this game.

 

Frankly though, this is pie in the sky stuff when there are so many bugs. Have you seen the issue that causes everyone's eyes to disappear in a conversation? Creepy!

Edited January 9, 2012 by Meluna