I'm scratching my head at some of these "Light" choices

[DecimaPoiuytr]

When I received Light Side points for telling a husband that his wife/mate would rather be a stripper than his wife/mate, and that he needed to leave her alone to "live her own life", I actually had to pause for a minute and ponder what I had just seen. The writer of this quest clearly did not understand the concept of saving people from themselves, nor the sanctity of marriage vows (whether alien or not).

 

Hey if your wife wants to do heroin and become a stripper you shouldn't be so controlling; let her go crazy and ruin her life.

[iphonemilk]

(Spoilers)

 

So I'm on alderaan and went into the mine to save the people from the Kiliks

but the daughter has been mind ****** and wants to stay. Now the Dark Side option involves saving her against her "will" but the Light Side option is to leave her.

 

 

*** is this? How can it be free will if she was captured and brainwashed AGAINST her will? I used to be massive star wars nerd, I read that novel series with the Kiliks, so I know they're not just misunderstood kittens. Theres a reason why they're hunted and violently kept in check by the humans and later the Chiss.

 

 

Anyway, just a little rant about something that really broke the camel's back for me on the whole light/dark side choices.

 

 

edit: lol whoops

 

 

I've noticed some of this as well.. and sometimes been noticing that making these choices are FORCING me into some sort of Liberal ideology... makes me Ponder about the Devs..

 

I can't remember what quest it was but one of them in specific was about Torturing.. you know the whole Jack Bauer scenario.. republic side to get information from a Separatist that would save 1,000's of lives..of course it would be Dark side if I tortured him. /rolls eyes.

[tekniicolor]

 

There's the master that had the plague thing, and at the end killing him would have given me dark side points, instead I had to let him go off with some other ''healers'' that would make him all okay. But then I was like... Aren't I meant to be the only one with this unique shielding ability that saves people from the ''Jedi plague''????

 

 

It's really niggling at the back of my mind that I should have killed the ****er for the greater good.....

Edited January 4, 2012 by Meluna

[kiddeth]

When I received Light Side points for telling a husband that his wife/mate would rather be a stripper than his wife/mate, and that he needed to leave her alone to "live her own life", I actually had to pause for a minute and ponder what I had just seen. The writer of this quest clearly did not understand the concept of saving people from themselves, nor the sanctity of marriage vows (whether alien or not).

 

Or the husband was an abusive ****** and ( as it turned out to be the case ) would have continued the abuse.

 

If he ( the husband ) didn't respect the "sanctity " of marriage ( what a laugh that is ) why should your toon?

 

And just a question who are you to judge who needs saving?

[Cavadus]

There's a lot of Renegade/Paragon options which make no sense.

 

For instance, on Ord Mantell...

 

...there's the woman who stole some vital medical supplies from one of the medic's on base. As soldiers lay dying in the infirmary due to lack of triage and treatment that these supplies would provide you get an option to either take the medicine from the chick who stole it and return it to the dying soldiers or give it back to her after you retrieve it so she can do whatever with it.

 

Yeah, returning it to the dying soldiers gives you Renegade points. ***?

 

 

Also, in Cademimu...

 

Near the end of the mission you get an option to target either an uninhabited moon or an Imperial fleet that's bombarding the planet from orbit with some surface-to-air-missiles. Choosing to destroy the fleet gives you Renegade points despite the fact that the planet's governor went independent so there's no way it would possibly blow-back on the Republic.

 

Plus you're, like, saving all of those civilians from being slaughtered...

 

 

I dunno, there's a ton of really whack Renegade/Paragon point assignments. As a Trooper I've noticed that sticking to my mission and being objective about my choices tends to make me Renegade most of the time. Apparently you're a much better guy if you endanger the lives of thousands of other people to save one's guy box of toys that he left behind while some pirates took over his home (that's a real example from Tatooine by the way).

 

And if the Renegade options aren't the much more logical choice anyways then they're just there so the player can act like a douche. BioWare has always really sucked at this as I noticed these types of things a lot in both Mass Effects as well.

Edited January 4, 2012 by Cavadus

[HanzBlix]

Must be a light side thing, because the dark side points I get are for doing some pretty foul things. Never once did I save a village with puppies or kittens as an FYI, more like burned it to the ground and cover the exits with my rifle to make sure no one escapes, not even a kitten.

[Skoll]

When I received Light Side points for telling a husband that his wife/mate would rather be a stripper than his wife/mate, and that he needed to leave her alone to "live her own life", I actually had to pause for a minute and ponder what I had just seen. The writer of this quest clearly did not understand the concept of saving people from themselves, nor the sanctity of marriage vows (whether alien or not).

 

I suspect we're talking about Nik here. That guy had little to no respect for his mate, treating her like property. He even refers to her as his "favorite possession". I don't know about you but if I'd been a woman I'd sure want to get the **** out of a marriage/relationship like that. In this case I completely agree with the writer that lying to that scumbag was the right thing to do.

[sageheart]

It seems to me that the ls/ds decisions are more often divided by whether they're passive or aggressive more so than by any sense of right and wrong.

 

So if you have to choose between forcing someone to go/stay/etc against their will (even in their own best interest) you are acting aggressively and showing traits of a dark sider (imposing your will on others).

 

Of course there are some exceptions with situations but I think this fits the majority of choices in the game. It think its somewhat unfair to light siders by making it seem like you have to be a pushover to be a good guy but since I think it would require a much more complicated conversation system to better represent alternative actions and their inherent intents I think it's as good as it can be for an mmo hoping for a broad audience appeal.

[enigmayshi]

What if by not saving the soldiers that were protecting the refugees the consequence results in the deaths of many more refugees because no one is there to protect them? The light dark side choice is stupid in that quest. Should have been a difference in rewards, not alignment.

 

Not really.

 

Light Side

Give Supplies to Refugees = Long Term Saving more lives.

Consequences- Military Suffering possibly increased in the short term until they get in new supplies. (Which they will, they have the money)

 

Dark Side

Give Supplies back to the military = Short Term possibly preventing some military casualties/suffering with supplies.

Consequences - Long Term the refugees suffer and die because they have zero access to medical supplies due to having no money to pay for them. Due to separatists kicking them out of their homes.

 

 

Its rather simply, Supplies to the Refugees over the long term saves more lives since the Military having a ton more money can and will get more supplies. Or just get issued more supplies, they have far more resources even on Mantell to work with than the refugees do who have zero.

 

Suffice to say giving the supplies to the refugees doesn't cause the entire Republic Military to magically drop dead, the wounded probably don't even make up 20% of the standing forces. So giving the supplies to the refugees won't see the military wiped out in the slightest.

 

Though the question of which is the 'right' choice is open to debate.

[TheToony]

Is it any more stupid than darkside points for helping dying soldiers? Or lightside points for aiding a minor in running away?

[AtomicWanderer]

I suspect we're talking about Nik here. That guy had little to no respect for his mate, treating her like property. He even refers to her as his "favorite possession". I don't know about you but if I'd been a woman I'd sure want to get the **** out of a marriage/relationship like that. In this case I completely agree with the writer that lying to that scumbag was the right thing to do.

 

Hmm, I didn't remember the part about him referring to her as his possession. I guess I need to pay more attention to the entire dialogue next time. If Nik was in-fact abusive based on his comments, then letting his mate do her own thing (self-destructive or not) would be the better/Light Side choice IMO.

 

Thanks for the assist.

Edited January 4, 2012 by AtomicWanderer
Spelling

[TheToony]

I also feel like I'm the only person who picks what seems right for the character.

 

My bounty hunter is sitting at -150 (neutral) at mid 20's. Wasn't even trying to be neutral.

[Fyros]

The light side ones that are in dispute seem to be choices between "obeying the law" and "acting on ethical principles"

[enigmayshi]

I also feel like I'm the only person who picks what seems right for the character.

 

My bounty hunter is sitting at -150 (neutral) at mid 20's. Wasn't even trying to be neutral.

 

My agent only got Light 1 in the thirties because she follows orders to the letter. If the Order is 'Kill/Dispose/Eliminate' ect ect, then that is the option she takes even if there is an option to let them run away.

[Centra]

Or the husband was an abusive ****** and ( as it turned out to be the case ) would have continued the abuse.

 

If he ( the husband ) didn't respect the "sanctity " of marriage ( what a laugh that is ) why should your toon?

 

And just a question who are you to judge who needs saving?

 

I don't recall it saying anything about abuse. She just said she couldn't live with him anymore, and couldn't break it to him.

 

I chose the answer I did, which was to tell him the truth, because I believe in telling the truth at all times unless there is an extreme case like saving someone's life from a murderer or something.

 

I wouldn't have said "respect her wishes" as my character ended up saying. I would have been more along the line of, "Look at yourself, and see if you can understand why she would do this, and maybe try to talk to her." But that was the way the lines went, so /shrug.

 

As for "sanctity" of marriage, "judging" by your siggy, I would hazard to guess you wouldn't know much about that

area.

 

I have honestly enjoyed the conflicting situations they have thrown at us, and I've agreed with most of them so far (I haven't gotten to Alderaan nor did I read the spoiler, so I'm not commenting on that). If it were easy and clearcut, it wouldn't be as interesting. Doing the right thing is rarely easy, and situations can be very complicated so that sometimes it's hard to know what the right thing is.

Edited January 4, 2012 by Centra

[Korialstrazs]

I also feel like I'm the only person who picks what seems right for the character.

 

My bounty hunter is sitting at -150 (neutral) at mid 20's. Wasn't even trying to be neutral.

 

They tied progression into alignment, with no rewards for lower alignment, or neutral alignment. So yeah, people will be choosing the dark/light choices, so they can access all the relevant rewards.

[AtomicWanderer]

And just a question who are you to judge who needs saving?

 

This is the type of question that has doomed thousands of other college students into trying to be tolerant of exactly all choices a human being can possibly make, in every situation. Who am I? I am myself, a person granted the ability to reason and to make moral choices, and as such, I make them.

 

My question to you would be this: who are you NOT to judge situations and to save/protect those needing guidance/assistance with their choices?

[pakchooieunf]

There are a lot of instances where the writers have plainly lost sight of what the light and dark dichotomy should look like. At some point, my Imperial character was presented with the following dilemma:

 

A. Turn a severely wounded man over to the Empire for torture & interrogation (Light)

B. Kill him. (dark)

 

Basically, both of these options are "dark". I would even argue that option A is a fate worse than death. A light-side choice would instead look something like:

 

C. Put the man on an escape pod with a medical droid to tend to his wounds, and let him take his chances running.

 

Bioware writers need to try a little harder.

[AtomicWanderer]

There are a lot of instances where the writers have plainly lost sight of what the light and dark dichotomy should look like. At some point, my Imperial character was presented with the following dilemma:

 

A. Turn a severely wounded man over to the Empire for torture & interrogation (Light)

B. Kill him. (dark)

 

Basically, both of these options are "dark". I would even argue that option A is a fate worse than death. A light-side choice would instead look something like:

 

C. Put the man on an escape pod with a medical droid to tend to his wounds, and let him take his chances running.

 

Bioware writers need to try a little harder.

 

This.

[Kuriostone]

There are a lot of instances where the writers have plainly lost sight of what the light and dark dichotomy should look like. At some point, my Imperial character was presented with the following dilemma:

 

A. Turn a severely wounded man over to the Empire for torture & interrogation (Light)

B. Kill him. (dark)

 

Basically, both of these options are "dark". I would even argue that option A is a fate worse than death. A light-side choice would instead look something like:

 

C. Put the man on an escape pod with a medical droid to tend to his wounds, and let him take his chances running.

 

Bioware writers need to try a little harder.

 

I think the writers have done a fantastic job in many of the situations they've created, and I'm really enjoying the various plots and sub-plots of the game.

 

Having said that, I agree entirely - these choices should be made a little more carefully and with a harder look at what light and dark mean in the context of the Force and Star Wars.

[Konoo]

In that particular quest I felt as though the story was saying that she had not actually been brainwashed at all so letting her go was the moral thing to do.

[Toraxa]

Keep in mind that light and dark are not good and bad. Light is more like peaceful, calm, and passive. Dark is more emotional and aggressive.

 

The light side does not view all things dark side as evil, just against their ways. They forbid love because it is a very strong emotion, and emotions lead to the dark side. Even though they have no issue with non-jedi partaking in love, or getting married.

 

In much the same way, not all things good are light side. As a sith character you spend a lot of time doing favors and other tasks for people. The things you do aren't always evil, but they generally do require some emotion, and are done for personal gain. Yet when I as a smuggler do things for personal gain, it's usually neither light nor dark.

 

Also, to note, what constitutes a light or dark side choice often changes from class to class, and side to side. For a smuggler or trooper, usually flirts are neither dark nor light. Whereas with Kira at least, the jedi knight companion, several of the flirt options come with dark side points.

 

 

Overall, the republic, and the jedi, aren't really the good guys. They're just the other guys. They make choices in the name of their quasi-religion that many of us would feel are wrong, but it goes along with their way of life, and their code.

[einherjar_LC]

There's the master that had the plague thing, and at the end killing him would have given me dark side points, instead I had to let him go off with some other ''healers'' that would make him all okay. But then I was like... Aren't I meant to be the only one with this unique shielding ability that saves people from the ''Jedi plague''????

 

It's really niggling at the back of my mind that I should have killed the ****er for the greater good.....

 

 

Wow, guess I don't have to finish my consular story line now...

 

 

Thanks...

[Cavadus]

Not really.

 

Light Side

Give Supplies to Refugees = Long Term Saving more lives.

Consequences- Military Suffering possibly increased in the short term until they get in new supplies. (Which they will, they have the money)

 

Dark Side

Give Supplies back to the military = Short Term possibly preventing some military casualties/suffering with supplies.

Consequences - Long Term the refugees suffer and die because they have zero access to medical supplies due to having no money to pay for them. Due to separatists kicking them out of their homes.

 

 

Its rather simply, Supplies to the Refugees over the long term saves more lives since the Military having a ton more money can and will get more supplies. Or just get issued more supplies, they have far more resources even on Mantell to work with than the refugees do who have zero.

 

Suffice to say giving the supplies to the refugees doesn't cause the entire Republic Military to magically drop dead, the wounded probably don't even make up 20% of the standing forces. So giving the supplies to the refugees won't see the military wiped out in the slightest.

 

Though the question of which is the 'right' choice is open to debate.

 

The only reason those refugees aren't dead already is because they were being protected by Republic soldiers.

 

Sorry, but giving the supplies to the soldiers is a better choice. The refugees can't defend themselves, the soldiers can defend themselves and the refugees. Once the soldiers lose the ability to defend the refugees due to manpower shortages they're all going to die.

 

And you also have absolutely no idea when the next shipment is due. You're lightside option is an insane gamble and puts all of Fort Garrick at risk which is grossly irresponsible and incompetent for everyone on Ord Mantell.

 

Who cares if you save a refugees' lives if the next day they're attacked undefended and attack by separatists because the Republic Army no longer had the manpower to adequately protect them?

Edited January 4, 2012 by Cavadus

[pakchooieunf]

I think the writers have done a fantastic job in many of the situations they've created, and I'm really enjoying the various plots and sub-plots of the game.

 

Having said that, I agree entirely - these choices should be made a little more carefully and with a harder look at what light and dark mean in the context of the Force and Star Wars.

 

I will concede that, on average, the Class story lines pull me along more than what questing in other MMO's usually looks like. That said, my Consular's progression was, almost literally, the same mission repeated four times over as if some writer said, "We need some way to usher a level 10 player to level 30, so let's stretch this single plot across 20 levels."

 

For the hundreds of side-quests, I can understand this copy-paste approach to mission design. But for a class storyline? It's shoddy, and deserves criticism. Notwithstanding that, I do enjoy the game.

 

 

Back to the OP, I want to comment on the whole fiasco of this Light/Dark system that was briefly touched on earlier...

 

It's an absolute kludge of a system. As a previous poster stated, tying rewards to moral butt-headedness was a clumsy idea. Rather than being a tiered meter of light and dark, it should be a spectrum, where certain items are only available to use while you maintain a particular alignment. Light, Dark, or Neutral.