The ability delay: the cause and how to avoid it

[Turando]

Thanks OP, a nice write up. I will start to experiment, gave me some good stuff to chew on. Cheers.

[Tiron_Raptor]

There is a 500+ thread on the exact same topic. If you want to be a thread celebrity you have to come up with something else more original

 

No, there's a 500+ page thread of people mindlessly insisting that there's a nonexistent, systemic delay in the entire combat system that makes it unplayable, and that contains a litany of 'evidence' that actually supports entirely different problems while clearly demonstrating the lack of a general ability delay.

 

And if someone disagrees, and points out that the evidence they have does NOT in fact support their conclusions, they just get mad and start launching personal attacks.

 

Honestly I'm not sure why bioware lets it continue...it's unhelpful and misleading, and is distracting people from the specific bugs that are causing the issues they're nonsensically calling 'delay'.

[Arkerus]

No, there's a 500+ page thread of people mindlessly insisting that there's a nonexistent, systemic delay in the entire combat system that makes it unplayable, and that contains a litany of 'evidence' that actually supports entirely different problems while clearly demonstrating the lack of a general ability delay.

 

And if someone disagrees, and points out that the evidence they have does NOT in fact support their conclusions, they just get mad and start launching personal attacks.

 

Honestly I'm not sure why bioware lets it continue...it's unhelpful and misleading, and is distracting people from the specific bugs that are causing the issues they're nonsensically calling 'delay'.

 

That has to be the smartest thing I have read all day. I gotta go to bed. Good luck and keep on fighting the good fight.

 

I just set my queue to 0.0 and 90% of my issues were gone. There are some bugs out there with activation but you seemed to have found what most people thought were actual ability delays.

Edited January 5, 2012 by Arkerus

[Nymaeria]

No, there's a 500+ page thread of people mindlessly insisting that there's a nonexistent, systemic delay in the entire combat system that makes it unplayable, and that contains a litany of 'evidence' that actually supports entirely different problems while clearly demonstrating the lack of a general ability delay.

 

And if someone disagrees, and points out that the evidence they have does NOT in fact support their conclusions, they just get mad and start launching personal attacks.

 

Honestly I'm not sure why bioware lets it continue...it's unhelpful and misleading, and is distracting people from the specific bugs that are causing the issues they're nonsensically calling 'delay'.

 

I have NEVER used ability queues in ANY MMO and I am still experiencing ability delays.

...just sayin...

 

They do appear to be caused by the animations being longer than the GCD but I'm not a developer or super savvy computer guy so what do I know? Also, if this problem is completely caused by the ability queue and not animation length, why is it that I'm dismounted if I try to move as soon as the cast for my speeder finishes?

[belialle]

Also, if this problem is completely caused by the ability queue and not animation length, why is it that I'm dismounted if I try to move as soon as the cast for my speeder finishes?

 

Check out the last post on the first page.

[Arkimor]

No, there's a 500+ page thread of people mindlessly insisting that there's a nonexistent, systemic delay in the entire combat system that makes it unplayable, and that contains a litany of 'evidence' that actually supports entirely different problems while clearly demonstrating the lack of a general ability delay.

 

And if someone disagrees, and points out that the evidence they have does NOT in fact support their conclusions, they just get mad and start launching personal attacks.

 

Honestly I'm not sure why bioware lets it continue...it's unhelpful and misleading, and is distracting people from the specific bugs that are causing the issues they're nonsensically calling 'delay'.

 

There's a 500+ page thread because it actually exists, has been proven to exist, and has been further confirmed by Biowares own post in that very thread.

 

Just because you don't think it exists does not make you right; and frankly this whole attempt to build yourself up because you don't recognize the problem is not only pathetic but embarrassing.

 

There's a reason why you have a 1-star thread, and the other is a 5-star.

Edited January 5, 2012 by Arkimor

[Lctl]

This is an animation issue.

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=130286

 

 

Edit :

 

Ive noticed this aswell.

 

I play on a laptop and on a desktop , the laptop is very crappy so i got it all on low, while the desktop has medium settings.

 

The difference on skill activation is almost impossible to believe.

 

Example : mind snap.

On the laptop i press it and takes 1-2 seconds to land

On the desktop it activates instantly.

 

 

Example : Project

 

On laptop, takes 2-3 seconds to start and another second to land

On desktop , its around 1 second to start and another second to land.

 

 

Etc. Most of the problem with skill delay is due to animation lag. It seems that if your pc processes he animation slower , stuff happens slower.

 

I know, i know. " but thats YOUR laptops problem, not the games".

 

 

Well... When i go , on my laptop, and play mu sith sorc, i press lightning, and theres no delay. Sparks fly.

 

I believe that the game actually waits for the animation to be complete before applying the effect. On other skills that the animation is somehow shorter/ instant, it responds faster.

 

Also, on other games, when you apoly a skill to a target, despite the animation, the effect is applied, even if the animation sometimes isnt.

 

Aka, if you lag on applying a long animation skill, like project, you might end up like i have, waiting up to 5 seconds for project to do his bussiness.

 

Although, you should consider the gcd. I think the devs thought it would be possible to put long animations that lasted as long as the gcd. In theory, makes sense. You cant do anything till gcd is up anyway, why not see preety stuff happening?

 

The reality is much different, specially on slower pcs.

 

To finish, i also think this is what messes channeled spells( like troopers) since the game is so dependent on letting the animation run its course, that prevents them from applying as they should.

 

 

 

Edit : forgot to mention, on either of them the queue delay is set to the same value.

Edited January 5, 2012 by Lctl

[Xcore]

Terrible understanding of the issue... 2/10 (Generous)

[Tilps]

Good in theory but bad for gameplay experience. With this model everyone would be complaining about "damage delay", as their client waited for the server to calculate and return acknowledgements for everything after they perceive it should be complete. The most successful games just create the illusion of responsiveness (as the OP has stated before) by allowing the client to start animations on key press event while waiting for the official 'ok' behind the scenes.

 

 

I don't think you understood my proposal fully, the delay of processing would be of clients next action at the server - the client would continue to to create the illusion just as it does now, the only net result difference is in how the server processes the sent events - it just avoids a specific painful missmatch between illusion creating and server acting as the user expected.

[Terko_Koslah]

 

Please analyze this.

[Lokai]

setting to 0 doesnt fix the delay at all, it helps but doesnt fix it, some abilityes simply have a delay on them heals are a great example of abilities seem to studder at end of a cast before they actually go off. certain melee skills also seemingly start then cancel and repeat when hit button twice. Is pretty big issue for anyone who has gotten use to spamming keys from other mmos, it requires adjustment to time all key presses... while i'm slowing getting better at it still kills flow of the game and literally kills people in pvp. Are times i hit a heal watch bar finish and takes me another 1.5 seconds or more for heal to go off and so person i was trying to heal dies do to this. Pretty huge issue over all and probably BIGGEST problem in game right now.

[Turando]

There's a 500+ page thread because it actually exists, has been proven to exist, and has been further confirmed by Biowares own post in that very thread.

 

Just because you don't think it exists does not make you right; and frankly this whole attempt to build yourself up because you don't recognize the problem is not only pathetic but embarrassing.

 

There's a reason why you have a 1-star thread, and the other is a 5-star.

 

Interesting. Although insulting him just undermines your credibility and proves what he was trying to say.

[Jediwran]

Interesting. Although insulting him just undermines your credibility and proves what he was trying to say.

 

Yep, totally agree.

[Xcore]

Yea sorry, I was just chiming in to rate. I actually appreciate the thread quite a lot, its false in almost every way BUT it does give a place to direct the trolls from the actual thread on this subject.

 

What is discussed in this thread is one, only one part of the actual issue. Latency/Lag/Client-Server Communication is only one piece of the puzzle.

[Jediwran]

Yea sorry, I was just chiming in to rate. I actually appreciate the thread quite a lot, its false in almost every way BUT it does give a place to direct the trolls from the actual thread on this subject.

 

What is discussed in this thread is one, only one part of the actual issue. Latency/Lag/Client-Server Communication is only one piece of the puzzle.

 

Explain what's false. ( I can get behind you if you respond in a smart, intelligent way that doesn't include personal attacks.) Otherwise, as another person says, it undermines your arguments.

Edited January 5, 2012 by Jediwran

[Xcore]

Explain what's false. ( I can get behind you if you respond in a smart, intelligent way that doesn't include personal attacks.) Otherwise, as another person says, it undermines your arguments.

 

Sorry friend, about 500+ Pages, 4,000+ Replies (200,000+ Views), worth of material and intelligent discussion with accurate information and established facts are far enough for me to continue to regurgitate the same stuff over and over to new people.

 

At this point, I'll just point you to Thread 1, Page 1 -- Start here and work your way through the other 4 Threads on this subject.

 

We've had Professional Gamers, Aspiring Developers, Network Specialists, Professional Coders chime in. Its worth a look.

 

 

Apologies again, I am simply too bored by these same false arguments that have arisen 4-5 times over the past 4 threads on this subject and subsequently shot down. If you're serious about this issue, go research a bit and chime in.

[Jediwran]

Suppose i should thank you for calling me "stupid" then?

 

After all, i did post my own view on this subject eithout insulting anyone and giving examples.

 

Furthermore, theres plenty of videos out there showing this exact same thing.

Why reinvent the bug/problem when its already in the open?

 

If I remember correctly, he's responded to several videos pointing out it may be a bug, with no meaningful replies.

[Jediwran]

Sorry friend, about 500+ Pages, 4,000+ Replies (200,000+ Views), worth of material and intelligent discussion with accurate information and established facts are far enough for me to continue to regurgitate the same stuff over and over to new people.

 

At this point, I'll just point you to Thread 1, Page 1 -- Start here and work your way through the other 4 Threads on this subject.

 

We've had Professional Gamers, Aspiring Developers, Network Specialists, Professional Coders chime in. Its worth a look.

 

 

Apologies again, I am simply too bored by these same false arguments that have arisen 4-5 times over the past 4 threads on this subject and subsequently shot down. If you're serious about this issue, go research a bit and chime in.

 

If you're serious you would debate the issue with this person instead of insisting you're right. If I'm right about something, I'm not afraid to debate the facts, that's just me though.

[Turando]

Yea sorry, I was just chiming in to rate. I actually appreciate the thread quite a lot, its false in almost every way BUT it does give a place to direct the trolls from the actual thread on this subject.

 

What is discussed in this thread is one, only one part of the actual issue. Latency/Lag/Client-Server Communication is only one piece of the puzzle.

 

Cool, thanks for the good info, I will go read your thread too.

[Lctl]

If I remember correctly, he's responded to several videos pointing out it may be a bug, with no meaningful replies.

 

 

 

Huh?

 

We know its a bug. Were hoping it gets fixed.

 

What hes trying to point out its that the animations/engine arent the cause in first place, when people clearly see they are/ did.

[Jediwran]

Cool, thanks for the good info, I will go read your thread too.

 

It does have some good info, I've read it. But it doesn't make this person wrong.

[Artthen]

Hello everyone! Several posts have been removed from this thread for straying off-topic. As you continue to participate in this thread, please remember to heed the Rules of Conduct.

 

As a general reminder:

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Thanks for your cooperation!

Edited January 5, 2012 by Artthen

[aureliastarr]

OP I support your effort, and I really understand what you are trying to say, but you are just wrong.

 

You are just flat out wrong. I play with 0.0 queue. The ability delay / ability stutters / and so on drives me so batty, that I've also tried a number of different combinations in hopes of finding some sort of "fix" or "workaround" till Bioware can patch it. I've been hoping that there is some way to get the combat feeling more responsive.

 

It's just not possible, because it is unfortunately a series of issues (which Bioware has already admitted to).

 

To put it simply, with under 70 ping and 100 fps using 0.0 queue to 1.0 queue and trying spamming buttons or only pressing AFTER the GCD finishes, or many other methods there are still multiple issues with responsiveness.

 

Still, I applaud you're effort... we're all trying to figure a way around this frustrating issue.

 

I have been really trying to figure out how some of the people are saying they don't see this or think that we're all lying. It's so baffling to me. I don't know if it's a sociological thing, or if it's just their game play style / experience, or maybe if they are REALLY hopeful that the game succeeds.

 

I am hopeful that the game succeeds, but I just can't be delusional about this issue.

 

To those who are like Obi Wan waving his hand and saying "There is no problem." I only say this:

 

 

The character responsiveness is a problem. You may not see it, but it is there. It's ok if you wish we didn't see it either, because we wish we didn't see it either. But, I want this game to succeed and so do you... so let's just agree on that.

 

Those of us who see it and experience it on a daily basis cannot and will not be convinced that this is not an issue, and we're very hopeful that Bioware is working on the problem... because it is very important to our long term decisions concerning our involvement in playing this game.

 

The lead combat designer admitted there are several issues. Why can't you, even if you don't see them?

 

If you enjoy the game, continue to play it... I find it enjoyable... but often very frustrating... so I play it, while using this forum to raise my concerns. Let us do that... it's ok... relax... one day you might wake up and turn on SWTOR to find that for some reason the game's combat just feels better and things seem snappier. You can thank Bioware for fixing it and us for raising the concern on that day.

Edited January 5, 2012 by aureliastarr

[Senatsu]

On my imperial agent, while firing Ambush, I have to wait up to 0.5 seconds AFTER the cast bar has finished to be able to use another ability. And that is because the animation lasts longer than the cast timer, it has nothing to do with the queue action feature.

[crazyhorsek]

I play a healer and I have yet to see this "delay" of what you all talk about.

 

I can finish a big heal and cast the shield on another target at the same time... I have no idea whatsoever of any of these issues.

 

As someone posted the video about how you can do it in wow and it should be done in swtor... I also can post a video of how this is actually possible in swtor also...

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&feature=endscreen&v=TzP0xjNLyX4

 

So... I dont really have any "delay issues" with any ability...