Combatlogs/addons. why isnt it implented allready?

[truxcer]

Lineage 2.

 

That game took balls to play. Good players were good players because they could see/read/feel the situation and use their brain to gain advantage. They didn't need to read a combat log to see that disabled healers are not able to heal. That slowed ranged classes can't escape melee. That overzealous mages can easily pull aggro.

 

Lineage 2 has combat log, i guess you didnt played long enough to find it. Then of course combat log in Lineage 2 doesnt serve much purpose as game lacks any kind of meaningful group pve activity.

[avictor]

I know this is hard to believe but a long time ago in a galaxy far far there were games before WoW. In these games players had to actually figure out why the failed to kill a boss with this thing called communication. They used a keyboard and typed to one another and thought out the battle which in the end helped them win. They didn't have dps reports or meters they had jolt cola and peanut butter m&ms to get them by. They learned from this process called communcation but that would not last for long. One day the skies started to darken as people fled their fun and easy mmo games to beta test a new game called WoW which would have you pay for gold, stupid playing cards to redeem in game and in the not to distant future Blizzard gold.

[truxcer]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kerafyrm#Kerafyrm_-_The_Sleeper

 

No real-time logging.

 

No healing add-ons.

 

No raid frames.

 

All it took was people committed to finding a way to accommodate for mechanics of an encounter that was, by design, supposed to be unbeatable.

 

So just stop being bad, sack up, and learn to raid.

 

BS, Everquest1 had option to parse combat log into file, witch can be analized after combat. This was used by many including people from this screenshot.

Edited January 4, 2012 by truxcer

[SpeeDeh]

Lineage 2 has combat log, i guess you didnt played long enough to find it. Then of course combat log in Lineage 2 doesnt serve much purpose as game lacks any kind of meaningful group pve activity.

 

You can create a tab to show your own personal incoming and outgoing damage. It eventually overflows the buffer as it also fills up with experience and adena gained. I played lineage2 for years and provided the community with the ability to edit the config files for chat colours. Thanks for the support.

[truxcer]

You can create a tab to show your own personal incoming and outgoing damage. It eventually overflows the buffer as it also fills up with experience and adena gained. I played lineage2 for years and provided the community with the ability to edit the config files for chat colours. Thanks for the support.

 

And how would you call this function i wonder, it sounds so combat-loggish to me..

[PjPablo]

why do you need combat logs? maybe if you werent so bad at this game you could figure out how to play it without the need of 3rd party programs?

 

oh you need to learn a rotation? hmm try hitting whatever ability is up. if you cant put together a rotation then you must be 3 years old. read your combat abilites

 

i swear, if you all didnt rush through the whole game and played it as intended then you wouldnt have half these problems. you rushed through the game, now you need to relearn how to play your class. learn the synergies of your abilities and stop being bad

 

The 'Whack-A-Mole' strategy works for some. Others prefer to base rotations on data that shows which is the most effective and efficient.

 

For people that want to play at the highest level data > moles.

[iResist]

There is no need for combat logs.

 

 

If you are actually paying attention during a fight, then you will know exactly everything you need to know without needing a combat log. You also can figure out the best rotation for your class without needing a combat log or a DPS meter.

 

 

Basically, a combat log is for bad players.

Edited January 4, 2012 by iResist

[mufutiz]

Basically, a combat log is for bad players.

 

It is one thing to oppose third party addons and modifications.

 

Opposing the general idea of a combat log is one of the most blatant ways to disclose who really is a bad player though. Not saying you are one of those. Just saying.

Edited January 4, 2012 by mufutiz

[chrisronline]

The reality of the situation is that some people play MMOs purely for this experience - they aren't too concerned about social interactions or an engaging story-line. They are interested in performance and improving that performance and without the necessary means to empirically and quantitatively measure their performance, they lose most of their desire to play the game.

 

The question for BioWare is what % of their (potential) subscription base constitutes these people and if appealing to that % is worth possibly losing the other % of people who are against it.

 

Personally, I agree with the assessment that the absence of these will not reduce or remove the elitist jerk attitude that people apparently hate - it just requires those people to make the same judgements on non-empirical evidence like OMG YOU DONT HAVE ALL BLUES.

Edited January 4, 2012 by chrisronline

[iResist]

It is one thing to oppose third party addons and modifications.

 

Opposing the general idea of a combat log is one of the most blatant ways to disclose who really is a bad player though. Not saying you are one of those. Just saying.

 

If you can't do the math without the combat log , then those people are bad.

[TheGonzoJoe]

I never said it's a dealbreaker. However, it is silly to defend what is a lacking of a standard feature (like a combat log, for christ sake) by comparing it to a game that was released over a decade ago. It's like if Bethesda did a poor job with Skyrim and a bunch of people said "well hey, Morrowind didn't have these things and it was a good game!"

 

When people say something as stupid as people are bad for wanting a combat log or the ability to mouseover that screams ignorance to me. I mean, it's clear you have no idea what you're on about when you say things like "idiot-buttons on their raid frames" as if this describes anything anyone is asking for.

 

But really, I find it particularly revealing that you completely ignored my appropriate analogy. Do you think a text-based MMO would be as good as a game with graphical representation? Do you think there's maybe a reason no one makes them anymore? Everquest is so damn old, when you say this game is OK because a game that's over a decade old doesn't have those features either you're basically insulting the game and I'm not sure you even know you're doing it.

 

If it's particularly telling that I ignored your flippant response and responded to the meat of your argument, I'm not sure what it's telling you. My answer, though, is two-fold. One, it's a false analogy. The difference between text-based MUDs and modern MMOs is an issue of technological capabilities advancement. The difference between older MMOs and modern MMOs is a game design paradigm shift. Ignoring the invalidity of the analogy and focusing on the spirit of your point, though, I would say it's a matter of taste. There are dedicated communities of MUD players that survive into the modern day, and I myself had a masochistic blast playing Project1999 last summer.

 

But I see your point, and I apologize if I was a bit strawman-ish in my earlier responses. As I've said a couple other times since, I didn't read closely enough to realize that the basic combat log was what the OP was asking for, and I agree, it's plain silly not to have one.

 

Even MUDs have those ;p

[azhrione]

There is no need for combat logs.

 

 

If you are actually paying attention during a fight, then you will know exactly everything you need to know without needing a combat log. You also can figure out the best rotation for your class without needing a combat log or a DPS meter.

 

This is an incorrect statement, because the best rotation is based upon factual evidence not anecdotal observation.

 

You can do a fight a hundred times and determine that rotation A > B > C > A > C > A is your best rotation as it seems to kill the mob the fastest. This is fine but it doesn't compensate for the variability of the random number generator.

 

Parsing a combat log could tell you that the actual best rotation is A > B > A > C > A > C due to any number of reasons that are impossible to determine without statistical analysis.

 

Over the course of a 1-2 minute fight the differences are probably trivial, but over a five to ten might fight the difference could be quite large. If the encounter gimmick was a DPS check, something as simple as this could determine the success/failure of the encounter.

[PjPablo]

If you can't do the math without the combat log , then those people are bad.

 

What was your DPS/HPM/ETC on your last FP/Group?

[mufutiz]

If you can't do the math without the combat log , then those people are bad.

 

well obviously it makes things a lot easier since you don't have to look at and keep track of all those numbers. Yes, this is a comfort issue, you can do it without but why the hassle.

 

The combat log has uses WAY beyond being an essential tank evaluation tool or for min/maxing your gear/ability rotation setup. It is an invaluable tool for essentially everything you do combat related.

 

I have no doubts a lot of people don't need a combat log, don't want one even. Here's the bad news, guys - it is going to be implemented. the question is just when? And a lot of people are wondering, why not yesterday?. A lot of people take a more sophisticated approach to games like this.

 

if you don't want to use a combat log - disable it. Let us baddies have the fun with it

Edited January 4, 2012 by mufutiz

[TheGonzoJoe]

BS, Everquest1 had option to parse combat log into file, witch can be analized after combat. This was used by many including people from this screenshot.

 

 

What part of "after combat" is equivalent to "real time"?

 

Or is English not your first language?

 

And for Kerafyrm, there was no after combat. You killed him on your first pull, or no one on the server killed him. Ever.

[Nicain]

Because there are more pressing things then combat logs and add ons that should be handled before things that really don't need to be in the game.

[mufutiz]

Because there are more pressing things then combat logs and add ons that should be handled before things that really don't need to be in the game.

 

That's why games like this usually launch with essentials like combat logs... so they can deal with stuff that comes up along the way and don't have to deal with the most basic features of what people expect in the game.

[azhrione]

And for Kerafyrm, there was no after combat. You killed him on your first pull, or no one on the server killed him. Ever.

 

You are glossing over the facts here, there was a wealth of combat log information from the Kerafyrm fight based upon other servers having awakened him. The second thing you are missing is that the players actually awakened him and started killing him before a server GM reset the event thinking the players were exploiting a bug. They then got a second chance and were successful a few days later.

 

Lastly you have to take into account some basic information on how EQ operated. There wasn't a limit to the number of players in a zone at that time, and zerging the mob was perfectly valid which was how they killed him. They in effect got so many players to zerg the zone that he never managed to kill everyone in his dungeon and thus they eventually wore him down. In effect they nullified the requirement of statistical analysis by providing themselves with unlimited resources.

[Guaritorr]

Didn't read all 12 pages, just felt like adding this...

 

I used to care about combat logs so I'd be able to look at my dps, perfect my rotations, and make myself an all around player...

 

Now I just want to be able to see why the heck I went from 30% to dead in one hit, what to interrupt the next time I fight some elite, and other mechanics. Its incredibly frustrating to be fighting something, and to die so fast that your not able to realize what you did wrong, then have no way at all to look back at the fight.

 

If you missed the quick floating red number (that doesn't actually tell you what caused that floating red number) when your in the heat of combat and trying to really tighten up your rotation so none of your defensive buffs fall off... sucks to be you, try again next time.

 

Whew, yeah, venting a little of that rage was satisfying, carry on.

[TheGonzoJoe]

You are glossing over the facts here, there was a wealth of combat log information from the Kerafyrm fight based upon other servers having awakened him. The second thing you are missing is that the players actually awakened him and started killing him before a server GM reset the event thinking the players were exploiting a bug. They then got a second chance and were successful a few days later.

 

Lastly you have to take into account some basic information on how EQ operated. There wasn't a limit to the number of players in a zone at that time, and zerging the mob was perfectly valid which was how they killed him. They in effect got so many players to zerg the zone that he never managed to kill everyone in his dungeon and thus they eventually wore him down. In effect they nullified the requirement of statistical analysis by providing themselves with unlimited resources.

 

True story.

 

I like to indulge in some informal fallacies of logic now and then, though.

 

It's a weakness.

[yinten]

I think i have already figured out a pretty solid rotation with my trooper but if someone found a way to make it even better, heck yeah I am willing to listen and learn from this person that figured it out. I love learning how to better my self in pretty much anything, even games. The best way to do that is to learn from others. We can't all be pioneers.

 

My hat off to the people that put in the time and share the knowledge. Cause I sure don't feel like wasting all the credits on respecs and 3-4 different gear sets. some of us dont have that kind of time, but still want to perform with the best.

 

I just hope this person I am learning from can back it up with some hard data.

[Blaeys]

what i read between the lines in every single negative response is that i dont want to get called out on my slacking or i don't want to get better.

 

We applaud you on your open mindedness and willingness to have a two way discussion on the forums. Raising a point and then attacking everyone who disagrees with you is both productive and a a great way to further your cause. (that's sarcasm, btw)

 

I may agree with you. I may not. The method you've chosen to communicate has motivated me to just ridicule you instead. I strongly encourage others visiting this thread do the same.

[Finaly]

We applaud you on your open mindedness and willingness to have a two way discussion on the forums. Raising a point and then attacking everyone who disagrees with you is both productive and a a great way to further your cause. (that's sarcasm, btw)

 

I may agree with you. I may not. The method you've chosen to communicate has motivated me to just ridicule you instead. I strongly encourage others visiting this thread do the same.

 

couldn´t have said it any better...

 

 

i am a raider but OP´s attitude is just laughable... only wannabee hardcores talk like this...and yes there are many...

[Vetorept]

Why isnt this implented yet? I know there is a thread somewhere but without search function on the forum its hard to find. If you want ANY serious PvE guilds to take this game seriously this MUST be added in the near future. There is no real negatives other than that the slackers may be told off or kicked from the guild. How are you supposed to know why you didnt manage to kill a boss if you got no stats to go give you an indication of why you failed? and how will the unexperienced ever get better if they have no idea what they are doing wrong? it makes no sense to me.

 

Would you believe me if I told you there was a game with an amazing raiding community that has been wildly successful for many years. Helped birth and shape raiding into what it is today and it has zero addons and combat logs? You probably won't. But when people say "hardcore" pve or pvp or hardcore anything they generally think of WoW, which is ironic because much of WoW was cloned from this game. The game is Everquest. Over 12 years of epic 54 man raiding with NO RECOUNT.

Edited January 4, 2012 by Vetorept

[Vraesh]

Combatlogs/addons. why isnt it implented allready?

 

Because we don't need them.