Comparison with facts

[aimbotcfg]

People who buy Frosties instead of Store Brand Value Frosted Flakes are getting ripped off. Think about it.

 

Or prefer to eat something that tastes good, as opposed to shoving as much bad tasting food down their throats as fast as possible to try and finish the box and get it over with. Think about it.

Edited January 4, 2012 by aimbotcfg

[princey]

Too much focus on having multiple leveling zones to choose from in WoW. Sure you can go to one zone, but are those zones, by themselves, equivalent in size to a planet in TOR? Is Westfall equivalent to Taris or Balmorra? Is Loch Modan? No. If you took all the zones you could choose in a level range on WoW and put them together, then you might approach the size of a planet in an equivalent level range. The problem is looking at each planet as a "zone" when, in fact, there's a flaw with that. Each planet is comprised of zones.

 

You aren't forced to do every side mission in every zone of a planet. You can do your class mission and the planet arc and skip ahead to the next zone. Pretty much the same idea of choosing between Westfall and Loch Modan imo.

 

As far as comparing overall content, there is a flaw in that as well. WoW has droves of content, but a massive percentage of that is abandoned. How many people step into Molten Core anymore? When was the last time you saw people gathering to kill Onyxia? If you're going to compare current WoW to current SWTOR in regards to content, you have to focus on CURRENT content, not old, deprecated content that's been sitting there unused for 5 years.

Edited January 4, 2012 by princey

[Ruggle]

Or prefer to eat something that tastes good, as opposed to shoving as much bad tasting food down their throats as fast as possible to try and finish the box and get it over with. Think about it.

 

You'd have been better off using a comparison of Grade A fillet steak to Grade E rump steak or something but then I'd have called you on making an unjustified analogy or made some vegetarian reference.

 

Perhaps the best comparison would be Coke and Lemonade?

 

As far as comparing overall content, there is a flaw in that as well. WoW has droves of content, but a massive percentage of that is abandoned. How many people step into Molten Core anymore? When was the last time you saw people gathering to kill Onyxia? If you're going to compare current WoW to current SWTOR in regards to content, you have to focus on CURRENT content, not old, deprecated content that's been sitting there unused for 5 years.

 

WoW has more current Boss content than TOR, and when the next content patch for TOR comes out people will abandon the current Ops in the same fashion. the only reason TOR has the illusion of vastly superior content is because most people who moved here from WoW have forgotten the thrill of levelling for the first time in Azeroth compared to the shiny new TOR Universe which is, under the surface, the same.

Edited January 4, 2012 by Ruggle

[LogicalPremise]

Since so many people have mentioned just how massive SWTOR is and how it dwarfs WOW let's please do this experiment.

 

*** Landmass of WOW compared to landmass of SWTOR - let's ignore the openess of the maps and the all corridor-type travel in SWTOR - let's look just at the size of it all.

 

*** Number of quests

 

*** Number of dungeons

 

*** PvP zones (not an expert on PvP but I have read tons of complaints)

 

*** end game content

 

 

If you want to reply, please remember not to time travel back to 2004 - it is a nonsense comparison. Just to remind you the current year is 2012

 

Also can we have a few 50s to report here as they are the ones that have experienced most of SWTORs maps.

 

I am confused as to the "point" of your experiment.

 

The relative size of WoW's maps is meaningless to me. The fact remains that WoW is populated with a class of people who are utterly skilless, who rely on a series of addons, props, gauges and guides to achieve anything, who are rude, dismissive, and childish.

 

If we are going to compare WoW and SWTOR, the only valid comparisons can be

 

- Technical Quality

- Play Quality

- PvP Quality (since they are similar)

- Community Quality

 

Arguments about how long WoW have been out are irrelevant, SWTOR had sufficient lead time that all technical issues should have already been addressed. It is unlikely in the extreme there will be any graphical or technical improvements in the short term for SWTOR. From a technical standpoint, taking into account that bugs are more prevalent at launch, WoW wins.

 

Play quality includes story, interest of quests, innovative features, and building interest and excitement. In this, WoW is a pile of dog crap. My only interest in any feature in that game was the loot, period. I could have cared less about the outcome, and my character is a paperdoll. SWTOR is much, much better.

 

PvP quality includes diversity, balance, fun, and end-game. WoW is much better. I am not sure what Bioware was thinking by including 3 WZ that are half-baked copies of WoW ones, but whatever it was isn't very good.

 

Finally, there is the community. I think I've already commented on this, but you couldn't pay me to play WoW. The community is beyond caustic, and if you don't bring your own friends to the game good luck having a fulfilling social experience. Here, I've met two people in my own town (going bowling tonight, actually), reconnected with 3 old military buddies, and had several random people spend literally hours helping me with PvP and holocrons. There's snark and jerks, of course , but they are the minority.

 

If WoW has more landmass, congratulations. Your pixels are bigger. If landmass size is your measure of "quality" , though, you may wish to move to Russia , since it's bigger than the US or Europe.

[thegimble]

How about I play Wow to enjoy Wow and play SWTOR to enjoy SWTOR?

 

Or how about i will play both enjoy both and watch most people and kids throw a wobbler when u start to comapre them. Find it hilarious that as it stands WOW is a bit better than SWTOR but its still a very good game. Its slightly buggy and end game contenet needs to improve.

 

Play both and have fun it will mean u have less time to be on here whinging.

[WolfGangFox]

Fact: $60 today is considerably the same as $60 dollars .. today.

 

If for example i wanted to play WoW tomorrow, and have not bought a copy of WoW before it is free until i hit lvl 20 and then i have to pay......... this sounds like a ftp game to me......

 

If for example i wanted to play tomorrow and have previously bought a copy it will cost me $15 to play the game.

 

If for example i had bought the game and got an e-mail with a 30 day free trial i could play the game for free.

 

So you are absolutely wrong on your "Fact"

 

Their are always exceptions to the rule. If something does not happen 100% of the time it cannot be fact. To be a fact it has to be 100%, and nothing is 100%.

 

Their is no such thing as "Fact" it is a myth, a fallacy, nothing can be proven fact only assumed to be fact.

 

If i make an assumption i am injecting opinion. The only thing that i can be reasonably sure of is data. But as soon as anyone starts to interpret that data it becomes opinion.

 

That is why in court you always hear the scientists and experts say "in my expert opinion".

[aimbotcfg]

the only reason TOR has the illusion of vastly superior content is because most people who moved here from WoW have forgotten the thrill of levelling for the first time in Azeroth compared to the shiny new TOR Universe which is, under the surface, the same.

 

Its really not. The first time I leveled in WoW I absolutely HATED it. Like, wanted to scratch my eyes out bored. The only reason I kept with it is because the girl I was playing with at the time kept telling me how great endgame was. It is vastly superior to leveling I have to admit, but not particularly challenging. The hardest part of WoW is finding 9 / 24 other people to raid with that arent terrible and I don't hate.

[Sunsliver]

Since so many people have mentioned just how massive SWTOR is and how it dwarfs WOW let's please do this experiment.

 

*** Landmass of WOW compared to landmass of SWTOR - let's ignore the openess of the maps and the all corridor-type travel in SWTOR - let's look just at the size of it all.

 

*** Number of quests

 

*** Number of dungeons

 

*** PvP zones (not an expert on PvP but I have read tons of complaints)

 

*** end game content

 

 

If you want to reply, please remember not to time travel back to 2004 - it is a nonsense comparison. Just to remind you the current year is 2012

 

Also can we have a few 50s to report here as they are the ones that have experienced most of SWTORs maps.

 

If you expect a game to be relased with flawless bugs, interface, pvp etc... AND have 3 expansions worth of content all on day 1... Then I feel sorry for you because you will never find what you want....

[Sunsliver]

FACT: WoWs zones are identical every time you play them regardless of class

FACT: WOW has at least double zones if not more. Let's not mention open and explorable. Heck why not. Open and explorable.

 

FACT: SWTOR has an interesting central storyline for each class

FACT: WOW has more quests in total. Call them "class " specific or not, it has more.

 

FACT: WoW has gotten rid of class quests and never had anywhere near as many.

FACT: WoW has more quests in total. No matter what you call them, class or general. More.

 

FACT: You are failing at trolling.

FACT: He is doing quite well. You are failing to provide sensible facts.

 

FACT: WOW is WOW

FACT: SWTOR is SWTOR

 

Now go play whichever game you like best.

 

And with 3 expansions under their belt they better have more quests lol. Clueless.

[Kinrain]

“Size matters not. Look at me. Judge me by my size, do you? Hmm? Hmm. And well you should not. For my ally is the Force, and a powerful ally it is. Bioware creates it, makes it grow. Its energy surrounds us and binds us. Luminous beings are we, not those crude WoW Players. You must feel the Force around you; here, between you, me, the tree, the rock, everywhere, yes. Even between the land and the ship.”

 

End of argument

Score: Yoda 1 Thrall 0.

[ObiWonCanolli]

Since so many people have mentioned just how massive SWTOR is and how it dwarfs WOW let's please do this experiment.

 

*** Landmass of WOW compared to landmass of SWTOR - let's ignore the openess of the maps and the all corridor-type travel in SWTOR - let's look just at the size of it all.

 

*** Number of quests

 

*** Number of dungeons

 

*** PvP zones (not an expert on PvP but I have read tons of complaints)

 

*** end game content

 

 

If you want to reply, please remember not to time travel back to 2004 - it is a nonsense comparison. Just to remind you the current year is 2012

 

Also can we have a few 50s to report here as they are the ones that have experienced most of SWTORs maps.

 

And this is relevant because? No seriously. When was the last time anyone purchased a game because it had more "land mass", or more quests? I mean seriously, not even Blizz tries to promote their games based on those comparisons.

[Lerdoc]

Wait?? Game with 3 or 4 expansions and 7 year old have more content and is bigger?

 

SOMEONE GIVE AWARD TO OP!

 

Quick! Get him Captain Obvious badge ASAP!

[Ruggle]

Its really not. The first time I leveled in WoW I absolutely HATED it. Like, wanted to scratch my eyes out bored. The only reason I kept with it is because the girl I was playing with at the time kept telling me how great endgame was. It is vastly superior to leveling I have to admit, but not particularly challenging. The hardest part of WoW is finding 9 / 24 other people to raid with that arent terrible and I don't hate.

 

That's interesting because I have a friend who is @ level 50 in TOR who says they will never level again because it is the most insipid and detestable thing they have ever done.

[aimbotcfg]

That's interesting because I have a friend who is @ level 50 in TOR who says they will never level again because it is the most insipid and detestable thing they have ever done.

 

I am inclined to think they either spacebarred, or you are making things up to support your point.

[Sunsliver]

I am inclined to think they either spacebarred, or you are making things up to support your point.

 

Prbobably the latter.

[Icebergy]

What? I do not recall receiving a discount because I am buying an unfinished game. I paid full price, probably more than I would have paid for WOW (not sure), so I expect a full game. If anything I expect a BIGGER and BETTER game.

 

Anyway, can we have some facts please Square footage of maps would be great start. Number of quests and dungeons.

 

I think but may be wrong, all of SWTOR's maps ( the areas you can really reach not the props), all that would fit in 1/5 of WOW's maps, say Azeroth.

 

I assert SWTOR's reachable land mass is 1/5 of WOW. There.

 

SWTOR zones feel about the same size to me as WoW zones.

 

Theres usually around 5ish zones per planet in SWTOR, so each planet is about 5ish WoW zones in size.

 

There are 17 planets, 5x17=85. So there are roughly 85 zones in SWTOR.

 

To me, SWTOR feels roughly the size of 85 WoW zones. How many zones does WoW actually have? I am not sure, but I believe it is substantially less than 85.

 

SWTOR feels way bigger than WoW to me.

 

Lets also keep in mind that quantity =/ quantity. IMO SWTOR is far superior in quality as well.

[Rollcageuk]

ROFL, this thread is one of the funniest I have read all day.

 

You are seriously trying to compare a game that has been out 2 weeks to a game that has been live for 7 years, had 3 expansions and a bucket load of patches...for the size of it!!!!!

 

That is absolutely freaking hilarious!!!

 

Just for the record. Of all quests/instances/lands in WOW how many are actually being used right now. Last time I looked outside Org/IF the entire world of Azeroth was a morgue. So size for size, it's about 17 worlds all currently with active ongoing questing against 2 raids and 2 cities, so in that TOR wins.

 

LMAO - todays comedy award def goes to the op!!

Edited January 4, 2012 by Rollcageuk

[Ruggle]

I am inclined to think they either spacebarred, or you are making things up to support your point.

 

I'm inclined to think that you want to believe that people who don't like levelling in TOR don't exist because it removes the only premise on which your argument is based, and I don't particularly want to place the name of a friend into a pit of ravenous fanboys in order to prove a point that doesn't need proving.

[princey]

WoW has more current Boss content than TOR, and when the next content patch for TOR comes out people will abandon the current Ops in the same fashion. the only reason TOR has the illusion of vastly superior content is because most people who moved here from WoW have forgotten the thrill of levelling for the first time in Azeroth compared to the shiny new TOR Universe which is, under the surface, the same.

 

Actually, the next content patch for TOR isn't going to trivialize the current content. That generally only happens when an expansion comes out and the level cap is raised. The next content patch is going to add another flashpoint and add (3, I think) bosses to a current (bare-bones) operation.

 

Of course WoW is going to have more boss content than TOR. They didn't spend the last 4 years building the game from scratch. The main focus of their live team is pushing out more end-game content. Before two weeks ago, the main focus of BW was just getting the game ready enough to release.

 

If you dig down to the core of any MMO, they are all going to be the same. Get X experience points, level. Kill X amount of Y, gather A amount of B, take this there, go hit the clickies. At the core they are the same because there isn't any other way to do it. (Even looking at literature, Lord of the Rings is just a glorified courier quest that took three novels to finish.) It's not the core that makes something interesting, it's what that core is wrapped in; it's the "surface" as you put it.

 

Sure, leveling the first time in WoW was fun, because it was unique at the time. The core was the same as EQ and DAoC, but the surface was different, and that is what mattered. Now, that system is not unique. Other MMOs not only have the same core, but the surface is nearly identical as well.

 

TOR takes that core and wraps it differently, giving the same tired mechanics a new spin, just like WoW did in 2004.

Edited January 4, 2012 by princey

[aimbotcfg]

I'm inclined to think that you want to believe that people who don't like levelling in TOR don't exist because it removes the only premise on which your argument is based, and I don't particularly want to place the name of a friend into a pit of ravenous fanboys in order to prove a point that doesn't need proving.

 

Any reason for not liking the leveling? Or just vague insults in the same way you brand anyone that doesn't slate the game a fanboy?

 

FYI, I only even heard about the game about a month or two before launch and wasnt particularly interested. I played the Beta and pre-ordered after having actually played the game.

[Raice]

Since so many people have mentioned just how massive SWTOR is and how it dwarfs WOW let's please do this experiment.

 

*** Landmass of WOW compared to landmass of SWTOR - let's ignore the openess of the maps and the all corridor-type travel in SWTOR - let's look just at the size of it all.

 

*** Number of quests

 

*** Number of dungeons

 

*** PvP zones (not an expert on PvP but I have read tons of complaints)

 

*** end game content

 

 

If you want to reply, please remember not to time travel back to 2004 - it is a nonsense comparison. Just to remind you the current year is 2012

 

Also can we have a few 50s to report here as they are the ones that have experienced most of SWTORs maps.

 

Of COURSE you've READ tons of complaints. Had you actually tried to become the expert you admit to not being... you would have formed your own opinion!

 

Which is probably where you are getting your opinion about everything else about this game - from READING TONS OF COMPLAINTS instead of forming you own.... by playing the game. Spend less time on these forums - spend more time in the game. Your entire perspective will change - I promise.

[Ruggle]

TOR takes that core and wraps it differently, giving the same tired mechanics a new spin, just like WoW did in 2004.

 

I don't disagree, I had fun with levelling my character in TOR. I had fun levelling in Rift. I had fun levelling in DCUO, hell I even had fun the first time I did the Champion's Guild quest in Runescape.

 

The issue I have is with people who are steadfastly insisting that once you've unwrapped the game it is just as appealing to unwrap it again and again and again in a way that other games were not.

 

I think the mechanics of some of the Flashpoint bosses in SWTOR are inventive and amazing, but that doesn't mean the 10th time I go through Red Reaper I'm going to be as enthralled as the first time.

 

The longevity of an MMO is going to be defined by how long you can keep people hooked at max level, and not how many times you can push people through the start of the game over and over again.

 

Any reason for not liking the leveling? Or just vague insults in the same way you brand anyone that doesn't slate the game a fanboy?

 

It is linear, it is grindy, some of the Bonus Missions defy logical wanderings, the conversation choices are - by and large - a sham, and conversation involving gaining Dark/Light side points is obsolete, because you've already decided what you will say before the conversation begins (Even without those D/L points the conversation direction is infulenced by how much of a dick you want to be or what your companion wants you to say).

 

Granted, some of the conversations have some good dialogue in them but for the most part it follows the same tired formula from other Bioware games:

 

1 - Cuddle kitten

2 - Dribble

3 - Exterminate local orphanage

Edited January 4, 2012 by Ruggle

[Raice]

no

but we can compare a game that has been in the making for 4 years. And has turned out nothing like what was promised

Now please go

 

Lol. it is EXACTLY like they said it would be, and they never made a SINGLE promise to anyone. What are you even talking about?

[DarthWoad]

Since so many people have mentioned just how massive SWTOR is and how it dwarfs WOW let's please do this experiment.

 

*** Landmass of WOW compared to landmass of SWTOR - let's ignore the openess of the maps and the all corridor-type travel in SWTOR - let's look just at the size of it all.

 

*** Number of quests

 

*** Number of dungeons

 

*** PvP zones (not an expert on PvP but I have read tons of complaints)

 

*** end game content

 

 

If you want to reply, please remember not to time travel back to 2004 - it is a nonsense comparison. Just to remind you the current year is 2012

 

Also can we have a few 50s to report here as they are the ones that have experienced most of SWTORs maps.

 

Why would we compare this game to a game that came out in 2004?

 

Were comparing TOR to WoW at its current state, not WoW in 2004.

 

BW had 7 years ahead to make it better than WoW, so yeah

[Raice]

Blizzard and Bioware are not buddies living in a commune sharing information.

You can look at a product and say 'we need to be just like them..and better'.

 

But most of it you will have to pull your design out of your arse since they aren't in bed together and willing to share the tricks of the trade.

 

Kind of like why Coke and Pepsi are rivals, each have their fans and haters.

And each provide a different service (flavor).

 

Coke doesn't give out it's formula to it's competitors.

 

 

If you love WOW, wonderful...go play WOW.

But if you love SW:TOR, great stay and help us make it better.

 

But don't go to the doors of Pepsi and complain about how Coke is greater.

Cause they will just tell you to go enjoy your Coke with a Smile.

 

But... Coke IS better than Pepsi... TOR is definitely NOT Pepsi in this situation. It's actually... Mountain Dew (which... is a Pepsi product, sure...) but whatever....