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Bioware, we need to talk.


iterius

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Outside of a sense of entitlement, if you're playing with a group of strangers, there's actually nothing unfair about anyone winning a loot roll over you.

 

Now, if this Merc was your friend and he/she was rolling on a piece of Str based medium armor, and wasn't doing it just to troll you, then yes, I'd say you have a leg to stand on in regards to being upset, though ultimately even then it's not Bioware's place to dictate who gets what loot.

 

As an aside, I bet you're going to be really pissed when my Operative rolls on your Str-based Medium armor just because she likes the looks and plans to remove the mods and replace with her own Cunning based ones.

 

Once people come to terms with how gear increasingly becomes two different things; appearances (the armor) and stats (the mods), I imagine the loot drama will intensify a thousandfold. And, it will be delicious.

Edited by revial
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Outside of a sense of entitlement, if you're playing with a group of strangers, there's actually nothing unfair about anyone winning a loot roll over you.

 

Now, if this Merc was your friend and he/she was rolling on a piece of Str based medium armor, and wasn't doing it just to troll you, then yes, I'd say you have a leg to stand on in regards to being upset, though ultimately even then it's not Bioware's place to dictate who gets what loot.

 

Wrong. Incorrect. Justification for your own obnoxious behavior in a group.

 

If you're rolling on armor that doesn't provide your class's primary stat just because its armor class fits yours, you're doing it all wrong. The amount of mod slots it has is irrelevant. PUG or not.

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It is high time you stop letting mercs roll on my strength medium armor.

 

Especially since I can upgrade them and use them indefinitely supposedly. Come on.

 

Dude like getting gear is hard expect that run with guild mates or friends

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You can change the mods for higher quality items but all items have base stats that you can't change and you'll will be disadvantaged if you try this. RPers and fashionistas are the ones who said you can mod items indefinitely...it's technically possible but not the best of ideas, they just don't care about stats. Edited by Dimus
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Wrong. Incorrect. Justification for your own obnoxious behavior in a group.

 

If you're rolling on armor that doesn't provide your class's primary stat just because its armor class fits yours, you're doing it all wrong. The amount of mod slots it has is irrelevant. PUG or not.

 

If you think someone should let a stranger win a hand of poker with two threes, when you yourself had a flush, just because that person has a sick grandma and needs to pay her medical bill, then sure. By your logic, I am being unfair and obnoxious.

 

I assume loot simply clouds people's better sense of judgement. The real world doesn't work around such altruism. Expecting it out of strangers in an MMO seems...naive. The roll is fair. You all have an equal chance of winning. Far more fair than my poker example, even.

 

If you can't admit your sense of fairness is entirely based on the assumption players should have altruistic tendencies, an assumption I'd hardly call a safe bet, then we really have no common ground to meet upon.

 

As far as the urban myth that armor has base stats and can't actually be improved as well if it's low level vs high, there was a display bug that seemed to indicate this, which has certainly confused many players, but I've certainly never actually seen it be true in reality.

Edited by revial
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Outside of a sense of entitlement, if you're playing with a group of strangers, there's actually nothing unfair about anyone winning a loot roll over you.

 

Now, if this Merc was your friend and he/she was rolling on a piece of Str based medium armor, and wasn't doing it just to troll you, then yes, I'd say you have a leg to stand on in regards to being upset, though ultimately even then it's not Bioware's place to dictate who gets what loot.

 

As an aside, I bet you're going to be really pissed when my Operative rolls on your Str-based Medium armor just because she likes the looks and plans to remove the mods and replace with her own Cunning based ones.

 

Once people come to terms with how gear increasingly becomes two different things; appearances (the armor) and stats (the mods), I imagine the loot drama will intensify a thousandfold. And, it will be delicious.

 

I find that extremely arrogant and selfish. I'd kick you for sure.

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You can change the mods for higher quality items but all items have base stats that you can't change and you'll will be disadvantaged if you try this. RPers and fashionistas are the ones who said you can mod items indefinitely...it's technically possible but not the best of ideas, they just don't care about stats.

 

Incorrect. We actually tested this across 20 levels of gear and the mods were the *only* source of stats up into level 30+ items. I personally have some reservations about the Epic crafted gear fitting that pattern but you can take your level 10 lightsaber and "turn it into" a level 30 lightsaber just by moving the mods out of a level 30 drop item. You get exactly the same stats (was true for blasters as well) with no loss however the empty husk of the drop seems to retain a minimum level... This was the case with three personally confirmed experiments after I heard many other claims to the same effect.

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Just to be clear. I'm not saying I would do this to another player. In fact, I hardly even bother rolling greed on PUG drops, as whatever money earned by selling random loot is essentially of little to no importance in the scheme of things.

 

I'm simply pointing out that when approached from a clinical, non-emotional way, there's absolutely nothing wrong with someone who decided to do so. Life doesn't get much fairer than an equal chance at any given piece of loot. Crying because you lost the roll seems fairly immature. But, what do I know? :p

 

That said, game designers apparently agree, since game after game they allow for this 100% equal chance at winning loot roll system to perpetuate.

 

/shrug

Edited by revial
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After reading this post that reminds me that a very important question should be asked before you run with strangers. Whether its your group or some one else s. What are the loot rules and go from there. Knowing that can save you a lot of head ache and will give you a good idea of what kind of person your running with.
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Of course you would, because you didn't get what you wanted. Obviously that's not selfish at all. :rolleyes:

 

No, I would kick you for rolling on an item simply for vanity. If we shared the same primary stats and armor capacity and you won, would I be angry? Of course not, you clicked need because you actually needed it, not because you like the way it makes your hips look.

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No, I would kick you for rolling on an item simply for vanity. If we shared the same primary stats and armor capacity and you won, would I be angry? Of course not, you clicked need because you actually needed it, not because you like the way it makes your hips look.

 

And who are you to judge what's most important to a player, stats or vanity?

 

Are you really unable to understand that in a 100% equal chance to win system, any other player's values are equally as valid as your own?

 

;)

 

Normal people accept that strangers may not share their values, and don't fly off the handle when the stranger wants to eat dog soup, when you wanted pepperoni pizza. To use a colorful analogy. Then, when you flip a coin and call heads, and it lands tails, and you end up going to some ethnic Chinese place, normal people don't fly off the handle.

 

If you want to ensure you only play with people who share your values, then you play with friends. Not strangers.

Edited by revial
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If you think someone should let a stranger win a hand of poker with two threes, when you yourself had a flush, just because that person has a sick grandma and needs to pay her medical bill, then sure. By your logic, I am being unfair and obnoxious.

 

I assume loot simply clouds people's better sense of judgement. The real world doesn't work around such altruism. Expecting it out of strangers in an MMO seems...naive. The roll is fair. You all have an equal chance of winning. Far more fair than my poker example, even.

 

If you can't admit your sense of fairness is entirely based on the assumption players should have altruistic tendencies, an assumption I'd hardly call a safe bet, then we really have no common ground to meet upon.

 

Before deviants like you, players actually weren't terrible to one another. I am over 30 though, and remember a time almost 10 years ago when people would line up for rare spawns, treat each other with a little dignity and respect, and even share things. Shocking that people would want a game world to be something the real world struggles so hard to be.

 

I assume you have been hurt at some time and have difficulty dealing with that. You cant trust people. How sad. You probably also complain when someone in the random groups gear isn't up to spec, oblivious to the fact you contribute to this.

 

Also if you want something for vanity, you can always come back later at max lvl and just stomp the level till it drops.

Edited by BlueRahja
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And who are you to judge what's most important to a player, stats or vanity?

 

Are you really unable to understand that in a 100% equal chance to win system, any other player's values are equally as valid as your own?

 

;)

 

Normal people accept that strangers may not share their values, and don't fly off the handle when the stranger wants to eat dog soup, when you wanted pepperoni pizza. To use a colorful analogy. Then, when you flip a coin and call heads, and it lands tails, and you end up going to some ethnic Chinese place, normal people don't fly off the handle.

 

Yes those naughty sith will simply die of shock when they see my charming smile and freshly pressed robes, why use a light saber their tacky?

 

How does being able to roll on something give me the right to roll on something? "Hey look I can roll on robes and heavy armor, they both just look so damn cute, I shall take them both, screw everyone else"

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Before deviants like you, players actually weren't terrible to one another. I am over 30 though, and remember a time almost 10 years ago when people would line up for rare spawns, treat each other with a little dignity and respect, and even share things. Shocking that people would want a game world to be something the real world struggles so hard to be.

 

I assume you have been hurt at some time and have difficulty dealing with that. You cant trust people. How sad.

 

Also if you want something for vanity, you can always come back later at max lvl and just stomp the level till it drops.

 

So, beating someone in poker is being a terrible person. Who knew! :D

 

The fact you take this all so seriously tells me a lot more than your belief that I'm some hurt person who can't trust anybody. :p

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Before deviants like you, players actually weren't terrible to one another. I am over 30 though, and remember a time almost 10 years ago when people would line up for rare spawns, treat each other with a little dignity and respect, and even share things. Shocking that people would want a game world to be something the real world struggles so hard to be.

 

I assume you have been hurt at some time and have difficulty dealing with that. You cant trust people. How sad.

 

Also if you want something for vanity, you can always come back later at max lvl and just stomp the level till it drops.

 

Well said!

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So, beating someone in poker is being a terrible person. Who knew! :D

 

The fact you take this all so seriously tells me a lot more than your belief that I'm some hurt person who can't trust anybody. :p

 

 

I really do not get the comparison. If the money a poker player was to win was worthless to himself, but extremely useful for another, you wouldn't even play the hand!

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So, beating someone in poker is being a terrible person. Who knew! :D

 

The fact you take this all so seriously tells me a lot more than your belief that I'm some hurt person who can't trust anybody. :p

 

This isnt poker. Poker is a game where there is one pot, and everyone has an equal stake or interest in it. We are talking about people all commiting to random chance to aquire an item of differing value to each person. If we were playing poker and everything in the pot was more suited to a selfish child, I would just let you win. If everything was more suited to a self righteous old man, I would hope you would conceed to me. If it was straight up credits, by all means, lets have at it with equal enthusiasm.

 

If we are still hung up on vanity, I do see somewhat eye to eye, but I wouldn't put my desire to crossdress before someone elses stats. I understand that we are leveling, and having a stat advantage is a big help, I can always come back later for that saucy red number that makes my pecks look like bo0bz

Edited by BlueRahja
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Yes those naughty sith will simply die of shock when they see my charming smile and freshly pressed robes, why use a light saber their tacky?

 

How does being able to roll on something give me the right to roll on something? "Hey look I can roll on robes and heavy armor, they both just look so damn cute, I shall take them both, screw everyone else"

 

You're really dense, aren't you? I'm not arguing about the morality of someone who has a me-first attitude verse someone who doesn't. That's a completely seperate issue from whether a roll is fair or not. Your problem is confusing the two issues. I personally think the person who doesn't have the me-first attitude is a morally superior human being. But that has no bearing on the fairness of a random number generator.

 

The entire point of the argument is that my own personal view on the matter is just as valid as that of the person with the me-first attitude. As in, they are both completely separate from the in game mechanic that decides loot.

 

The only intrinsic law in this system is that we both get to roll a random number generator. If he wins, so be it. I had an equal chance to win as he did. There is no intrinsic morality built into the loot system itself. Expecting every single stranger you encounter to share your values is...beyond naive.

 

If that really makes no sense to you, then we're really beyond the point of rational discussion and likely treading into pointless pettiness back and forth territory. :p If we're not already there.

Edited by revial
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