Ok all this QQing about Ops/scoundrel need to stop

[Sivlar]

I wasn't in closed beta, just the weekend ones. My understanding from guild mates who were in closed beta is the overpowered pvp issues with Operatives & Scoundrels was articulated very clearly and often. The Devs. simply did nothing about it.

 

-Gratus

 

I was in beta for about 7 months, people whined about Sorcs being OP'd the most out of any class. Seems people still like to whine about them to after they get killed.

 

Ops/Scoundrels were pretty rare, not a lot of people really played them much it seemed. The ones you did happen to see were always heal spec.

Edited January 4, 2012 by Sivlar

[BobaFurz]

 

yes, operatives and scoundrels are like wow rogues, they are good 1v1, but in situations with more than 3 people on teams, their burst is negated by good teamwork and good healing

 

THIS....exactly this. I cant comment on lvl 50 in high end gear, but at lvl 43 I get my *** kicked aswell if I dont select carefully when and who I attack.

 

Sometimes you slice through players like butter, but sometimes you really have to give all what you have in your dmg arsenal if you attack Heavy Armor ranged classes, sniper in selfmade cover, healer and so on - not the squishy DD shadows but those with higher defence builds and there are lots of them, I dont see if I attack a tank or a squishy DD shadow.....and if you pop up out of stealth you get targeted. The operative is besides healer the first target who needs to be killed...thats a fact. And I say that always to my team in chat, dot him dot him.

 

 

The problem alone is already the mix from lvl 10-50 in one battleground, it doesnt matter what class you choose but with lvl 50 and geared you stomp the "grey" players. There might me exceptions but in general they have no chance.

 

Maybe the operative needs adjustement at highe end pvp, cant say this and I dont talk about lower lvls. But at my lvl I need the dmg output to down certain classes otherwise the bazillion range classes around take you down in seconds and those with defence. I only can say play the class a bit and see how you are you doing, take the class to lvl 15 and play some BG´s. You will see how often you get kicked out of stealth from AoE, you will see that you cant just attack and run into a group like others do or start firing at them from range if players have around the same lvl like yourself.

 

 

The whole pvp system needs a change, not just the operative. The current pvp is broken if you throw in lvl 10 in green with lvl 50ies in champion gear. The game needs a lot of fixing and I dont think that this will happen that fast.

 

 

Ok, i am Sorc 50 lvl half champ and 46 valor rank, i think that the problem not in dmg, but in DPS (dmg+cd), ops\scs spammed hits 2500-3500 dmg with no CDs and no cost, is a little radiculous, my lightining strike or force lightining hits only 400-700 dmg, while operative can do that dmg with auto atk on the move, my thundering blast (31 lightning) hardest crit with pots was 3500, and it has 6 sec CD and 2 sec cast time. I can't heal in dps spec (my heal 2500 2,5 cast time, op hit 3500-4500, nice, so -heal, i just can't understand logic.

 

What about your shield which totally absorbs the opener, If I attack a sorcerer with shield up the dmg from my opener is none existent, the dmg gets absorbed. Or does this change at high end pvp ? My lvl 16 !sorcerers lightning channeling spell with slow ticks for around 850 dmg per tick...is the expertise the reason for lower dmg and the gear ?

 

Thx

Edited January 4, 2012 by BobaFurz

[thewayshemoves]

What's awesome is when I'm playing my Scoundrel, I'll jump a Sorc, knock his *** down, open up hard as I can because he's guarding an objective (I'm a stealth class, I go straight for objectives and hope there's only 1 or 0 people guarding it), he gets up with about half his HP (which is realistic, it hardly ever hits harder than that), knocks me back, and kites me around. We don't have any gap closer except stealth and a heavy opener. If you stay outside of 10m, nothing but my lame generic blaster fire can hit you. That's about 500 damage.

 

I've played this Scoundrel since before the actual release of the game. I play it every day, solely as my main, with no other characters. What I've noticed is that there's some idiots who will take my opener like a champ and put up a good fight and cause me to run, because they not only have situational awareness, but good reflex and knowledge of our classes. Then there's these people who will take my opener, and act like they went full retard because of it. Start backpeddling, trying to turn around to find me, trying to run to get distance without trying to slow me first. I can't stun you after I knock you down. Anyone who says I can is blatantly lying. I do this every day, I know for a fact that I can't stun someone who has a full resolve bar. It has *never* worked. I know that because I read the forums where people said it did, so I tried it quite often, sometimes I still try it just for fun when I realize the person I'm playing is a complete idiot. It doesn't work. I cannot stun you after that knockdown until your resolve is empty.

 

There's not one single class I've fought that couldn't beat me if they did the right things at the right time. I spent time with my guild and my friend practicing pvp, and I've learned that fact. The guy I leveled with is a shadow, and our duels are hit or miss. Every time we fight it ends with one of us losing and the other <10% hp.

 

Just learn how to play the classes, learn everything about them and stop buying into those myths you keep seeing on these forums. I know this from experience, not just with my own class but daily practicing with guildies and warzones.

 

This is a good vid:

 

Mythbusting for you that keep repeating these myths. The two that got beat at the end. They could have won. What they didn't do was keep a cool head. You see that one that guy after his friend died? He went full retard, took about three or four hits before he even responded at all.

[BobaFurz]

he guy I leveled with is a shadow, and our duels are hit or miss. Every time we fight it ends with one of us losing and the other <10% hp.

 

Of course, DD Shadows hit like a truck ...if they play well, especially when they have the opener on you, they kill you aswell very fast.

 

 

 

This is a great video about the operative how things look like in practice and not just from the view of a victim, and yes I attacked recently a lvl 23 commando who is twenty lvls under me and I did around 1200 dmg to them with my main attack....this happens aswell, but people dont want to hear that or say l2p .

 

This is one thing I dont understand in this game, I killed lvl 40+ dd shadows aka squishy ones in short time but it takes work to get down a lvl 23 commando player . This is really strange and the video shows this aswell, and he is lvl 50 with way higher dmg output.

Edited January 4, 2012 by BobaFurz

[Glor_]

Well today i jumped on two level 50 folks as geared as me, and guess what? I lost by a mile. Still averaging 10medals à WZ, which is far more than the average scoundrel/operative, but against competent people, it's not op at all.

 

Of course i'm gonna win every single 1v1 (almost i guess), but as someone said, i'm gonna loose every single 2v2 if they are competent player and shut me down. I'm paper thin you know.

[Bryoal]

Ok if an Op/Scoundrel can:

 

A) Always find me while were both in stealth

B) Take me down to less than half in their opening stun which I use my CC ability

C) Stun me again and get me down to 20%HP

 

How the hell do I counter that? Vanish and run away? Seems like the only option. This on an Assassin btw.

[BobaFurz]

Ok if an Op/Scoundrel can:

 

A) Always find me while were both in stealth

B) Take me down to less than half in their opening stun which I use my CC ability

C) Stun me again and get me down to 20%HP

 

How the hell do I counter that? Vanish and run away? Seems like the only option. This on an Assassin btw.

 

Your tank tree is for sure the counter, cant say how you do with a DD build as shadow/Assassin. But if they jump me they have a high chance to kill me, doesnt your class has the highest instant dmg Maul+shock ? It hurts a lot....

 

And you have two things which are powerfull, kickback and the powerfull force speed. With force speed you can do a lot to decimate us, operatives cant run. Dont you have slow aswell and a dot ? Shadow/Assassin is a very powerfull class...

Edited January 4, 2012 by BobaFurz

[Coldin]

Ok if an Op/Scoundrel can:

 

A) Always find me while were both in stealth

B) Take me down to less than half in their opening stun which I use my CC ability

C) Stun me again and get me down to 20%HP

 

How the hell do I counter that? Vanish and run away? Seems like the only option. This on an Assassin btw.

 

In regards to A, I have the exact same issue fighting assassins and operatives. They seem to see me way before I see them.

 

To B, sometimes I can deal that much damage, but that means getting lucky on crits. I've seen Assassins deal some nasty damage too.

 

To C, they can't stun you again until resolve wears off, because the opener stun always fills resolve.

 

 

Edit: It's honestly it's just a few Operative/Scoundrels that are really dishing out this crazy damage. And those are the ones at 50 with nearly full champion gear. But then, nearly any 50 I go against that's well geared like that tends to clean my clock.

Edited January 4, 2012 by Coldin

[BobaFurz]

They see you first because the Operative is the infiltration class probably, well we have talent points for better stealth detection - dont know if you have this aswell.The Assassin/Shadow has defence options and is a much more agile class, you can dish out good dmg with a tank build and maybe a viable hybrid build is possible. Very sweet CC options aswell. You just have to try a bit what fits, but like I wrote before...you have some tricks aswell in your pocket, just use it. If you use the DD build of course you are a squishy like the operative aswell, so the operative and the shadow have to suck fulll high damage output and that hurts a lot. Edited January 4, 2012 by BobaFurz

[Mursie]

ops/scoundrels are overpowered? weird...

[BambulaGTS]

Well today i jumped on two level 50 folks as geared as me, and guess what? I lost by a mile. Still averaging 10medals à WZ, which is far more than the average scoundrel/operative, but against competent people, it's not op at all.

 

Of course i'm gonna win every single 1v1 (almost i guess), but as someone said, i'm gonna loose every single 2v2 if they are competent player and shut me down. I'm paper thin you know.

 

Next post will be:

 

"I jumped on group of 3, one of them was tank and two healers and I lost by a mile ..."

 

Get real bro.

 

If you were not OP you would never ever jump on two level 50 folks as geared as you.

 

If you are "paper thin" than what are people you "win 1 on 1" (lol) - made of air probably?

Edited January 4, 2012 by BambulaGTS

[Bobbeh_Cgly]

Well today i jumped on two level 50 folks as geared as me, and guess what? I lost by a mile. Still averaging 10medals à WZ, which is far more than the average scoundrel/operative, but against competent people, it's not op at all.

 

Of course i'm gonna win every single 1v1 (almost i guess), but as someone said, i'm gonna loose every single 2v2 if they are competent player and shut me down. I'm paper thin you know.

 

But why should any class, win 90% or above of 1v1s they have. Skill aside, same level, same gear, should they not be at least close fights most of the time?

[Keengamer]

Your tank tree is for sure the counter, cant say how you do with a DD build as shadow/Assassin. But if they jump me they have a high chance to kill me, doesnt your class has the highest instant dmg Maul+shock ?

 

No... no.

[Jigss]

Sorry but i like i said before if a partial champion geared BH is stunned then killed off before the stun is finished the class needs a Nerf. I thought sage/sorc was op but you guys bring it to a whole new level. Edited January 4, 2012 by Jigss

[Knifewrench]

Whenever I hear a scoundrel/op claim they've got no mitigation...

[Dificeman]

That funny that stealth a whole hell of alot sooner than 2 minutes. and hitting me for 3k per hit not in stealth is way too damn high of substained dps.. so to the OP **** and stop trying to defend the class simply cause you have no skill to play something that isnt over powered

[Jigss]

Whenever I hear a scoundrel/op claim they've got no mitigation...

 

BHs have heavy armor buddy. Also what every time i meet one i have to pop everything so i can survive the 2 stuns just to drop down to half health while they are at full and have them go stealth again or just dps the rest of my health away ? The class is nonsense and even the people who play it know it.

[malavius]

To people saying that cry is only caused because of stealth, when exactly Rogue in WoW could eat 50% of TANK's hp on Cheap Shot?(Immortal Juggernaut 5champion items) because usually 4-5 people on me can't eat me as fast as 1 full champion scoundrel.

[HeroicSock]

Sleep dart, its nothing to worry about, it just means your going to be opened up on.

Flashbang (Me personaly) only use it to run away. or if im very confident, will use it to stun them while cooldowns come up. But mainly with it being a run away tool you shouldent be too upset about that..

Sever Tendon, alot of melee has this ability. without it we would be kited and kited.

Debilitate Cant be used if they have used Hiden Strike knockdown..

 

Derp. 'Just means you're going to be opened up on.' That's half the freakin' problem... You get opened up on, you eat a 3.9k crit, followed by 2 backstabs (crits or not - who cares) and you are buried in a heal deficit. Flashbang, AoE incapacitate, designed for getaways - allowing for a restealth and a reopen if you **** up or feel like running after your target is down. The heals are annoying when you catch one out in the open and his friend keeps you away whilst he spams himself from 1-5k in an energy bar, before stunning you and getting some free backstabs...

 

The point is, this class has excessive tools to play to its advantage, and sorry to burst your bubble, it doesn't take skill at all. A free, spammable nuke for very high damage with 1 requirement - positioning. That 'positioning' is ensured by hidden strike, which can be broken and doing so allows you to be immune to stuns till your resolve is drained. So you have a 1-up on the agent, you turn on him, he bolts it, using his in-combat stealth.

 

Solution? Nerf burst or remove the stun component of hidden strike, give backstab a cost, leave CC and give a slight increase to survivability. Any of these nerfs with compensation in other areas would really allow other classes a chance in PvP.

[sefirus]

Ok, i am Sorc 50 lvl half champ and 46 valor rank, i think that the problem not in dmg, but in DPS (dmg+cd), ops\scs spammed hits 2500-3500 dmg with no CDs and no cost, is a little radiculous, my lightining strike or force lightining hits only 400-700 dmg, while operative can do that dmg with auto atk on the move, my thundering blast (31 lightning) hardest crit with pots was 3500, and it has 6 sec CD and 2 sec cast time. I can't heal in dps spec (my heal 2500 2,5 cast time, op hit 3500-4500, nice, so -heal, i just can't understand logic.

 

+100, in this moment the class more nerf is sorcerer/sage i only hit 400/500 and crits 1k when other class hit me 3k+...

 

Good job bw.

[Awrini]

I'm confused. Spammable free backstabs. I thought classes were mirrored. Back blast is 10a base 0 talented cost with a 12 second cooldown. How is that spammable?

[BambulaGTS]

To people saying that cry is only caused because of stealth, when exactly Rogue in WoW could eat 50% of TANK's hp on Cheap Shot?(Immortal Juggernaut 5champion items) because usually 4-5 people on me can't eat me as fast as 1 full champion scoundrel.

 

Now imagine rogue has cheap shot that besides stun also hits like a truck, adds dot, has 50 % armor reduction? Nice

[Tiriensoul]

This one time, one came and did damage to me, i lost 10.500 hp just under 4 seconds.

Couldn't do much... I'm a Jedi sage, only healing myself up takes around 2 seconds, reaction is 1 sec... so there you go...

 

As i saw this, i made a Scoundrel... and now i say. THEY DON'T NEED A NERF..

Because i am playing one atm... so please don't nerf them.

[Grometsc]

Seriously....Those Ops/Scoundrels that are saying 1 trick ponies should try playing other classes. I have a scoundrel, shadow and working my tank setup (I'm trying to enjoy the story lines until the pvp gets sorted out)....Easiest class to play so far is the scoundrel....it literally requires no attenion to anything in the game, if I pick a target, its going to die...simple as that. Healing will not even keep that target up. Maybe those should take their own advice, and try playing a not so OP'd class to see why everyone stats there is a problem.

[Ganan]

I'm confused. Spammable free backstabs. I thought classes were mirrored. Back blast is 10a base 0 talented cost with a 12 second cooldown. How is that spammable?

 

prly people thinking those 3k secondary hits comes from backblast, when it comes from sucker punch or something.