Defense interrupts GCD: A serious, and valid, issue for Warriors

[Gankstah]

Admittedly, this is a more profound issue for Juggernauts since we have such a heavy investment in Defense by default. But I figured this is an issue that should be brought to the attention of the entire Warrior community and not just thrown into the Juggernaut forum.

 

I would post it in GenDisc but that's a cesspool of spammers and whiners and I'm hoping this might garner some attention if placed in a different forum.

 

Anyway, Defense (i.e. deflection, parry, dodge etc.) interrupts the GCD. As a juggernaut I'm currently sitting at roughly 36% defense (buffed of course). Which means that 1 in 3 hits are parried/deflected.

 

I honestly think I'm coming down with carpel tunnel from playing my tank. I have to spam my buttons NON-STOP to get them to fire off. For example. I hit Slash but at that exact same moment I deflect a blaster bolt. The result is Slash does not fire off. There have been situations, more abundant than I would like to admit to, where I'm literally smashing my keyboard for 3-5 seconds trying to get an ability to fire off because I'm just constantly deflecting/parrying and I'm essentially "locked" up.

 

As a Juggernaut, this causes some serious issues. Particularly with 2+ mobs attacking me. If my abilities are not firing off in a timely fashion I can't maintain aggro. If I can't maintain aggro my position in the group is worthless.

 

The result of this is that tanks that are heavy reliant on defense (i.e. SA/JS and SJ/JG) are at a disadvantage to tanks who are not (i.e. PT/VG) because the likelyhood of them suffering this effect is far less.

 

This is the only complaint I have ever, I mean ever, registered on these forums. I am pleading with BioWare... PLEASE turn off the forced Defense animations. For the sake of my health (my hands) and my sanity. I'm not saying turn them off entirely. But if I hit Slash then it should trump whatever Defense animation is firing off at the time.

Edited January 4, 2012 by Gankstah

[Starcloud]

Huh. So that explains the mysterious failures to fire off abilities.

 

Yes, Bioware, please remove or reduce the animation lockout times for "defense" moves like deflect and block. It makes the character feel slow and unresponsive.

[TarionBesbald]

That explains a lot, like the good old "prepare to stab with Retaliation 3x before the skill fires off".

 

Fix please.

[boba_dan]

Yeah, I notice this as well. We get stunlocked by being good at our class. Yay.

[Dalaya]

Didn't understand why i had to spam a lot more now ....

This just needs to be fixed.

[Lymain]

Great job figuring this issue out...was wondering what the heck was going on.

[Greystonez]

Kudos for noticing this.

 

I'm not sure if defense in general is causing the problem or the ability retaliation or both, but BW needs to take this seriously and get it fixed soon. I pretty much hardly every use retaliation as an immortal spec tank because I always getting gcd locked for 1-3 gcd's using it.

[OdinSD]

I appreciate this post. I was wondering what was going on and this makes so much sense. My hand thanks you.

[Eerazer]

Admittedly, this is a more profound issue for Juggernauts since we have such a heavy investment in Defense by default. But I figured this is an issue that should be brought to the attention of the entire Warrior community and not just thrown into the Juggernaut forum.

 

I would post it in GenDisc but that's a cesspool of spammers and whiners and I'm hoping this might garner some attention if placed in a different forum.

 

Anyway, Defense (i.e. deflection, parry, dodge etc.) interrupts the GCD. As a juggernaut I'm currently sitting at roughly 36% defense (buffed of course). Which means that 1 in 3 hits are parried/deflected.

 

I honestly think I'm coming down with carpel tunnel from playing my tank. I have to spam my buttons NON-STOP to get them to fire off. For example. I hit Slash but at that exact same moment I deflect a blaster bolt. The result is Slash does not fire off. There have been situations, more abundant than I would like to admit to, where I'm literally smashing my keyboard for 3-5 seconds trying to get an ability to fire off because I'm just constantly deflecting/parrying and I'm essentially "locked" up.

 

As a Juggernaut, this causes some serious issues. Particularly with 2+ mobs attacking me. If my abilities are not firing off in a timely fashion I can't maintain aggro. If I can't maintain aggro my position in the group is worthless.

 

The result of this is that tanks that are heavy reliant on defense (i.e. SA/JS and SJ/JG) are at a disadvantage to tanks who are not (i.e. PT/VG) because the likelyhood of them suffering this effect is far less.

 

This is the only complaint I have ever, I mean ever, registered on these forums. I am pleading with BioWare... PLEASE turn off the forced Defense animations. For the sake of my health (my hands) and my sanity. I'm not saying turn them off entirely. But if I hit Slash then it should trump whatever Defense animation is firing off at the time.

 

mate alter your button (ability) queue timer to 1.0 second in your preferences menu. (i can't believe this isnt set like that by default.)

 

then your moves will queue up better. trust me it really helps.

Edited January 4, 2012 by Eerazer

[Eisregen]

mate alter your button (ability) queue timer to 1.0 second in your preferences menu. (i can't believe this isnt set like that by default.)

 

then your moves will queue up better. trust me it really helps.

 

Personally, I'm already doing that. But jumping into a group of four or five I sometimes end up blocking so much that I can't even get Threatening Scream off. Every animation cancels into a block. Granted, this might well have to do with the fact that I'm 2-3 levels above the enemies I fight cause of PVP, Space Missions and FPs. Tougher enemies would probably not get blocked so much, ironically enough.

 

That said, some attacks seem to break this limitation, in particular Backhand and Force Scream always seem to go through. Smash seems to work more often than the plain saber attacks, probably for similar reasons. Maybe they just animate that much faster or the face that the animation makes it impossible to block from it cancels defense in that moment. Maybe there's an order of precedence.

 

Speaking of which, Ravage always works too but definitely cancels defense while it channels (channeled Force Choke probably as well but mine's already instant).

[Segaki]

Thank you very much Sir.

 

I was doing something I hate to do as a tank, tell my damage dealers to go slower cause I can't keep up if I activate Saber Ward for example.

 

this explains so much... why didn't I come up with this. >_<

 

mate alter your button (ability) queue timer to 1.0 second in your preferences menu. (i can't believe this isnt set like that by default.)

 

then your moves will queue up better. trust me it really helps.

 

also this ^ kudos!

[Pyrrha]

went to nar shadda and did the terminal injury quest in the space port at lvl43 pulling packs of 10 or 15 really had to spam to one ability off.

[Axxar]

Strange, considering how often I use Saber Ward and I'm not having this issue. I can parry and dodge like there's no tomorrow and still fire my abilities.

 

I play very deliberately and never spam my keys. I have my ability queue set up to 1 second. While I have encountered combat glitches they happen very rarely and don't appear connected to my character's defensive manoevering.

[Ansultares]

I'm literally smashing my keyboard for 3-5 seconds trying to get an ability to fire off because I'm just constantly deflecting/parrying and I'm essentially "locked" up.

 

As a Juggernaut, this causes some serious issues. Particularly with 2+ mobs attacking me. If my abilities are not firing off in a timely fashion I can't maintain aggro. If I can't maintain aggro my position in the group is worthless.

^^^^^

 

I can't believe this wasn't addressed already, because it's so obviously a huge disadvantage associated with building the defense stat.

 

I get that it might get some lore nerd's dick hard to see it happen, but it's practically unplayable (especially when I stack my own performance issues alongside what seems to be some server lag).

 

Another issue, and this probably qualifies more as a bug and is likely much less specific to the warrior, are abilities "activating," including a GCD and animation play, only to not actually fire. For example, I've gone through three Ravage animations/GCDs before the ability actually triggered and properly went into cooldown.

 

I'm willing to put up with bugs, flaws, etc., on the basis that they'll be fixed. But this issue with high defense rating effectively locking your character down must be fixed ASAP. It's a major issue because it does affect your ability to tank.

[Recamier]

I have noticed this too, and I'm in full DPS gear (even though I'm imortal specced lol). It's like the GCD animation on the buttons resets itself. So you get like 1/4 of a second through the line in the buttons moving down, and *BAM* you are back up at the top again.

 

Sometimes my strike animations do the same thing. It's like you start the swing and 1/4 of a second later, the animation resets. I thought it was just something to do with sluggish response.

[octava]

Isn't this the same that happens when you for example play a smuggler/IA and fire of a snipe directly followed but a blaster shot? This makes only the blaster shot animation but the snipe actually damages without the animation.

[Segaki]

Isn't this the same that happens when you for example play a smuggler/IA and fire of a snipe directly followed but a blaster shot? This makes only the blaster shot animation but the snipe actually damages without the animation.

Block/Parry is a mechanic that is passive, not triggered.

 

There is a little difference if that interrupts your GCD resulting in you not being able to use another(any) ability because the GCD blocks you from using it.

 

The thing you mention can be summed up under "Ability Delay" check General Discussion for that.

[dorkvid]

 

Anyway, Defense (i.e. deflection, parry, dodge etc.) interrupts the GCD. As a juggernaut I'm currently sitting at roughly 36% defense (buffed of course). Which means that 1 in 3 hits are parried/deflected.

 

 

When you say buffed, what exactly do you mean? I'm also a juggernaut tank sitting at just under 27% static defense, curious where you get the other roughly 10% from. Are you calculating the accuracy loss from Smash along with the Retaliation buff in?

[ChampionChains]

I'm also Immortal spec and have been having a big problem with the parry/block/deflect animation not allowing my other abilities to trigger. I'll sometimes have to either spam an ability until the animation is complete or hold the key for 1-2 seconds before the ability triggers.

 

I've also noticed channeled abilities (ravage, un-talented force choke) will often play the animation as well as display the channel cast bar, but the ability will not go on cooldown and no actual attacks are made. This may also have something to do with the defensive animations not allowing other abilities to properly trigger.

[Gankstah]

When you say buffed, what exactly do you mean? I'm also a juggernaut tank sitting at just under 27% static defense, curious where you get the other roughly 10% from. Are you calculating the accuracy loss from Smash along with the Retaliation buff in?

 

Yes, that is correct. 25% Base + 6% Ret + 5% Smash.

 

I've also noticed channeled abilities (ravage, un-talented force choke) will often play the animation as well as display the channel cast bar, but the ability will not go on cooldown and no actual attacks are made. This may also have something to do with the defensive animations not allowing other abilities to properly trigger.

 

Yes, this is what happens when Defense trumps Ravage. For some reason the Ravage animation can't be interrupted but the mechanic can. This has happened to me quite a few times.

Edited January 4, 2012 by Gankstah

[Ansultares]

Yes, this is what happens when Defense trumps Ravage. For some reason the Ravage animation can't be interrupted but the mechanic can. This has happened to me quite a few times.

It's frustrating, and worse, it's embarassing when you're losing agro because abilities either won't fire or are faux firing.

[Strongtooth]

Its being worked on. This game is not perfect but realistically its not even one month out. I suggest to you all that you check the dev posts occasionally. Hopefully this will help.

 

 

 

GeorgZoeller General Discussion -> Ability Delay -- Character Responsiveness (This will make or break SW:TOR)

 

This issue is under active investigation.

 

The complication is that there are actually a number of different issues with very different causes and potential resolutions lumped together in this thread.

 

All we can say for now is 'we are actively working on the topic of character responsiveness'.

[_Dakk_]

I'm happy it's being evaluated in its many forms of existence. Great find, OP. This needs attention ASAP.

[kikleon]

I must say I haven't noticed this and I was solo farming lower instances grabbing lots of mobs at a time. I will have to pay particular attention to this and report later.

[Sykomyke]

I have to say I was wondering why it felt so hard to get my skills off...Thanks for digging into this!

 

Also: Icing on the cake. I have a thread about the disparity in tanking talents between Powertech and Juggernaut...there's a relatively huge disparity that needs to be brought in line for Juggernauts to be on par with Powertechs.

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=129042