"Addons are stupid and WoW is easy."

[kemmadar]

 

Wow, looks rough! That guy had to cast something every 10 seconds or so!

 

I am sure it was hard and innovative for its time, but it isn't anywhere near as hard as current raiding content.

 

 

self admission that you original trollish 'eq wasn't tough' post is without justification. bet you can't even tell me what class is being played in that video

[Raeln]

 

Wow, looks rough! That guy had to cast something every 10 seconds or so!

 

I am sure it was hard and innovative for its time, but it isn't anywhere near as hard as current raiding content.

 

There was like 12 bosses that were linked. Half of them had to be CC'd, the other half had to be offtanked. The ones that needed to be CC'd had incredibly high magic resist, so had to have multiple magic resist debuffs on them all the time. Bard MR resist was short duration (18 seconds or so) so the raid makeup was very specific to be able to do the encounter.

 

All the mobs had to die within a very short time from the first one going down. It required a lot of team work to take all of them down within that time frame. Threat also worked differently - typically, the guy doing the CC died when it was his mob's turn to be dps'd down. Some of them blew up when they died too.

 

It was a gate encounter that was a huge stumbling block for a lot of guilds. It was the last thing from tank and spank and so difficult to do that most guilds only did it to get their core members the necessary attunement flags (read: 2 times in total) and never went back.

 

It was a 45 minute encounter from start to finish during the timeframe that my guild did it. One single CC resist could wipe the raid.

 

The guild in that video completed that encounter in July 2004. That is late in the content cycle for that boss kill. My guild killed Quarm (the final boss of the expansion) about that same time. Quarm was probably another 6 bosses or so on up the chain - I don't remember how many mini-flags were between Rathe Council and Quarm now. There was a metric ton of attunement flags to get before it was nerfed to crap.

Edited January 6, 2012 by Raeln

[Braushh]

To all those against adding mods/combat logs/meters/ui customization..just a warning, your game will die off far more than you'd expect, or like.

 

I am a huge Star Wars universe fan.I am a player who was very big into SWG the first couple of years. I've been hyped for this game since I heard it was in development. I dropped $150 to make sure I'd have CE. But the honest truth is as much as I want to love this game, it has been difficult due to the bugs that really take hold at 50, the lack of progression tools, and disappointing community. While some people play this game super casual, other people play this game for different reasons. To suggest they should not have OPTIONS is pathetic.

 

If I'm going to play a MMO game, I'm playing for the challenges that comes with multiplayer grouping such as hardmode fpoints and raiding. If I want super casual with interesting story lines, I'll play single player games and save myself the grief I get from my girlfriend when investing large amounts of time to a MMO. As of this point, I'm SADLY already preparing myself for the possibility of leaving this game for newer 2012 releases, which a month before launch..I would have told you I'd be playing this for a good 1-2 years.

 

My point is simply everyone has a different idea of what an online game experience should be. This game has the potential to compete for the WoW player base..don't restrict this games potential for the people that would rather limit the game than allow it to reach a broader player base.

[Raeln]

To all those against adding mods/combat logs/meters/ui customization..just a warning, your game will die off far more than you'd expect, or like.

 

I am a huge Star Wars universe fan.I am a player who was very big into SWG the first couple of years. I've been hyped for this game since I heard it was in development. I dropped $150 to make sure I'd have CE. But the honest truth is as much as I want to love this game, it has been difficult due to the bugs that really take hold at 50, the lack of progression tools, and disappointing community. While some people play this game super casual, other people play this game for different reasons. To suggest they should not have OPTIONS is pathetic.

 

If I'm going to play a MMO game, I'm playing for the challenges that comes with multiplayer grouping such as hardmode fpoints and raiding. If I want super casual with interesting story lines, I'll play single player games and save myself the grief I get from my girlfriend when investing large amounts of time to a MMO. As of this point, I'm SADLY already preparing myself for the possibility of leaving this game for newer 2012 releases, which a month before launch..I would have told you I'd be playing this for a good 1-2 years.

 

My point is simply everyone has a different idea of what an online game experience should be. This game has the potential to compete for the WoW player base..don't restrict this games potential for the people that would rather limit the game than allow it to reach a broader player base.

 

I really think TOR having a damage meter will push more people away from the game than bring them in. I've heard many people speak negatively of damage meters during my years in WoW. I've also heard a lot of complaining that 3rd party addons break so often after content patches. I think veteran WoW players just came to expect that nothing worthwhile gets done on the night and day following a patch because they have to wait for their addons to get fixed and updated.

[kemmadar]

To all those against adding mods/combat logs/meters/ui customization..just a warning, your game will die off far more than you'd expect, or like.

 

 

If I'm going to play a MMO game, I'm playing for the challenges that comes with multiplayer grouping such as hardmode fpoints and raiding.

 

 

but what you don't understand is that adding on 'help me' tools because you claim that everything is too buggy doesn't make sense...if it's too buggy then it will get fixed, BW has released a super piece of software, and i don't expect that they will let things stay broken for too long. an add-on telling you what exactly the boss is doing in a realtime combat log, is similar to playing the original contra with a game genie...just because you beat the content with the aid of a 'cheating' device doesn't mean YOU completed anything. if you want the challenges that are there, then take them on with what you have at your disposal, not what you lack.

[Braushh]

I really think TOR having a damage meter will push more people away from the game than bring them in. I've heard many people speak negatively of damage meters during my years in WoW. I've also heard a lot of complaining that 3rd party addons break so often after content patches. I think veteran WoW players just came to expect that nothing worthwhile gets done on the night and day following a patch because they have to wait for their addons to get fixed and updated.

 

I totally disagree. Casual people can group with other casual people and completely ignore/laugh at the damage meter. I've never once heard someone suggest they are leaving WoW because they allow meters or addons. I played WoW hardcore for Vanilla and BC, I then played casually from WoTLK on. Despite playing casually, pug raiding/grouping..I still appreciated meters for the value they provided into understanding your character/play style. I am also a player that loves organizing my own UI that fits my preferences. I could easily spend anywhere from a full day to a full week setting up and tweaking my ui. It did not affect my ability to play the game casual whatsoever.

 

To suggest allowing customization, or even simply Bio adding their own meters, would hurt the game and its player base really makes me laugh.

[Braushh]

but what you don't understand is that adding on 'help me' tools because you claim that everything is too buggy doesn't make sense...if it's too buggy then it will get fixed, BW has released a super piece of software, and i don't expect that they will let things stay broken for too long. an add-on telling you what exactly the boss is doing in a realtime combat log, is similar to playing the original contra with a game genie...just because you beat the content with the aid of a 'cheating' device doesn't mean YOU completed anything. if you want the challenges that are there, then take them on with what you have at your disposal, not what you lack.

 

I run hardmode flash points despite not having extra UI/mods. I'm not suggesting it can not be done, I'm simply saying many people enjoy the ability to control their own UI and there is not much of a logical reason to not include such options.

 

As I posted above this, myself and many other people enjoy the ability to simply customize their own UI, regardless of how much or little it is designed to aid them in progression.

 

To suggest I need mods to down content is a little short sighted on your part.

[Domiku]

If you say because they harass you for being bad by linking meters, I have bad news for you. You are actually bad, and someone pointed it out to you after carrying you through that content.

 

So it's really more that people do NOT want meters because they want to get rid of people LIKE YOU, not because they hate meters.

 

*** now breathe deep***

 

Don't rage yet! think about it for a moment, things might start making sense...

[DerexSWTOR]

Pretty much this is the problem.

 

It's two different playstyles, and two different ideas of what's fun. For me, the numbers and performance are fun. The game itself can be enjoyable on it's own for sure, but in the end game, how may times are you going to run the same hard mode flashpoint just for the "experience" of it. In the end, the gearing up and numbers are all that the end game players have.

 

It's not right or wrong to enjoy the game one way or the other.

 

I don't care if you enjoy your immersive experience without the numbers, that's fine. Why do you care if I enjoy the numbers when the experience loses its luster?

 

Because the numbers lock players out of content.

 

Let me start by saying I'm a raider, always have been through 4 years of EQ and 7 years of WoW. I install any mod I feel will give me an edge and I min-max as best I can.

 

Let me also say this is a great way to get burnt out on the game. There are several REALLY GOOD reasons why you DO NOT want, particularly, DPS/HPS numbers able to be obtained within the game.

 

* The moment you can see that class X's Max DPS is L% worse than class Y's Max DPS, Class X no longer gets group invites. Look at the threads already about "only looking for X Class, no others need apply". PLAYERS MIN MAX, particularly end game raid players, and what that means is, if you aren't the top DPS player, you don't get a slot as DPS in a hard mode instance.

 

Remove the numbers, and you can no longer TELL who is max DPS and who's not, thus, no classes get locked out of being able to play the game at the top level.

 

* Maxing Numbers = Class Warfare. And for good reason, when the community figures out that my Sorcerer's DPS is perpetually 5% behind the Sniper's DPS, I get locked out of content. So my only recourse is to come to the threads and ***** about how much my class sucks because we're not max DPS and thus don't get group invites. This causes the rest of the classes to HATE ON the top class in whatever factor (tank, heal, dps) they are because they're not best so they don't get invites.

 

* Maxing Numbers = Game Sagnation: The longer you follow down this path the more you realize that patches become the nurfing/buffing of everyone over and over and over again to provide someone who isn't currently getting an invite an invite at the expense of someone else who will now no longer get an invite. It's no longer about fixing content, it's about who got nurfed and who got buffed this go around and "OMG i'm Quitting Sorcerer because Sniper is SO MUCH BETTER!"

 

11 years of MMO play has taught me, the numbers drive facts and the facts drive changes. While this is a GOOD thing, you have to look at the facts:

 

There are 8 classes on each side of the game, there are only 4 slots in a group. This means 4 classes are going to be on the out. Once the numbers are available to figure out which 4 classes those are, the class warfare begins.

 

IN THIS CASE Obfuscation is an ends to a means. The less you know about the internals of the game the less you'll be able to force your min/maxing view on others.

 

"Let them go run with the casual players then". You are equating casual with sucking, that's not the case. For a time, the BEST DPS warrior in WOW could not out damage a majority of the DPS classes. That didn't mean the DPS warrior was a casual player or that he sucked, he just wasn't a DPS class, and that locked out DPS warriors from properly playing the game. That's bad for any MMO.

 

"Let them find something not so hard-core to do then!" - Like what? It's been said multiple times, there are very few things to do at level 50 at this point. You have a set of operations and hard mode flaspoints and that's about it. If the majority of the community is, as you're saying, attempting to obtain the best equipment possible then it goes without saying they're trying to do it as efficiently as possible. And in doing that they're going to put together the best group they can...which will NOT include the second, third or 4th best healer class or the second, third or fourth best DPS or tank class.

 

The numbers are AWESOME to the min/maxing player, but they're NOT awesome for the GAME or for GAME PLAY. And from a business standpoint they're NOT awesome for BioWare because they start the MMO down the track of class warfare and players /rage quitting the game because they can't be the best.

 

I'm all for a moddable UI that provides better ways of viewing what is already being presented to you (incoming damage, etc.), I am actually entirely against meters of ANY kind, simply because they cause too many players to focus too much attention on what's "best" and not on simply playing the game.

 

--Illydth

Edited January 6, 2012 by DerexSWTOR

[gdhtsu]

Are addons needed no, are they a convience yes. Im sorry but the majority of add ons Make a player lazy. Recount is probally one of the few that are more beneficial just because it tells you whos or what dum *** wasnt paying attetion and standing in the fire just to make his damage higher. But thing like DBM just dull ur raiding skills to some extent. If u can do Rag without an addon I think that overall your skillset is better then with the addons

[Raeln]

I totally disagree. Casual people can group with other casual people and completely ignore/laugh at the damage meter. I've never once heard someone suggest they are leaving WoW because they allow meters or addons. I played WoW hardcore for Vanilla and BC, I then played casually from WoTLK on. Despite playing casually, pug raiding/grouping..I still appreciated meters for the value they provided into understanding your character/play style. I am also a player that loves organizing my own UI that fits my preferences. I could easily spend anywhere from a full day to a full week setting up and tweaking my ui. It did not affect my ability to play the game casual whatsoever.

 

To suggest allowing customization, or even simply Bio adding their own meters, would hurt the game and its player base really makes me laugh.

 

I said damage meters, I didn't say UI customization. Bioware should provide a UI that customizable to the point where there is very little need for further addons. I have no problem with addons that let you rearrange UI components or display already available data in a more readable format. In WoW, I appreciated buff addons that allowed me to show the buff as a timer. I'm not opposed to that type of addon.

 

Damage and threat meters are a different type of addon though. They aggregate data much faster than a player can innately. They have an impact on the playerbase and game design in general.

[kemmadar]

I run hardmode flash points despite not having extra UI/mods. I'm not suggesting it can not be done, I'm simply saying many people enjoy the ability to control their own UI and there is not much of a logical reason to not include such options.

 

As I posted above this, myself and many other people enjoy the ability to simply customize their own UI, regardless of how much or little it is designed to aid them in progression.

 

To suggest I need mods to down content is a little short sighted on your part.

 

short sighted? try comparing everything to what you are so used to having in the WoW-irrific game that you were weaned on.

 

also i enjoy how you insinuate that 'casual' players are the only ones that would be against you meter/customization needs. when that couldn't be further from the truth. there are legitimate players out there that are not from your school of thought, and reducing their ideas to the 'casual' level is subjective. what you have to understand is that not everyone started with WoW, and to suggest that the game should be more like the trainwreck that blizzard brainwashed everyone into thinking should be the standard is laughable at best. give the people the 'accomplishments' and they are something special, if the game was so good then go back

[Raeln]

Because the numbers lock players out of content.

 

Let me start by saying I'm a raider, always have been through 4 years of EQ and 7 years of WoW. I install any mod I feel will give me an edge and I min-max as best I can.

 

Let me also say this is a great way to get burnt out on the game. There are several REALLY GOOD reasons why you DO NOT want, particularly, DPS/HPS numbers able to be obtained within the game.

 

* The moment you can see that class X's Max DPS is L% worse than class Y's Max DPS, Class X no longer gets group invites. Look at the threads already about "only looking for X Class, no others need apply". PLAYERS MIN MAX, particularly end game raid players, and what that means is, if you aren't the top DPS player, you don't get a slot as DPS in a hard mode instance.

 

Remove the numbers, and you can no longer TELL who is max DPS and who's not, thus, no classes get locked out of being able to play the game at the top level.

 

* Maxing Numbers = Class Warfare. And for good reason, when the community figures out that my Sorcerer's DPS is perpetually 5% behind the Sniper's DPS, I get locked out of content. So my only recourse is to come to the threads and ***** about how much my class sucks because we're not max DPS and thus don't get group invites. This causes the rest of the classes to HATE ON the top class in whatever factor (tank, heal, dps) they are because they're not best so they don't get invites.

 

* Maxing Numbers = Game Sagnation: The longer you follow down this path the more you realize that patches become the nurfing/buffing of everyone over and over and over again to provide someone who isn't currently getting an invite an invite at the expense of someone else who will now no longer get an invite. It's no longer about fixing content, it's about who got nurfed and who got buffed this go around and "OMG i'm Quitting Sorcerer because Sniper is SO MUCH BETTER!"

 

11 years of MMO play has taught me, the numbers drive facts and the facts drive changes. While this is a GOOD thing, you have to look at the facts:

 

There are 8 classes on each side of the game, there are only 4 slots in a group. This means 4 classes are going to be on the out. Once the numbers are available to figure out which 4 classes those are, the class warfare begins.

 

--Illydth

 

Some very good points here. Well done.

[Xaphiero]

With addons in place, you start paying attention to the numbers and your performance instead of just playing and enjoying the game. They drain the fun out of a form of entertainment. That is why casual players don't enjoy them.

 

+1

 

Having the game/computer make the decisions FOR you in a macro (conditionals are horrible to allow to players in macros) gives coders a competitive advantage over those who do not know how to or do not care to (just having a good time) use them.

 

I like addons that give me more info or redesign my UI in a better way so that I have better info and widgets arranged on my UI in a way comfortable for me. However, that is the limit that any user-exposed API should go to. Macros, being naughty, should snuff it!

[DerexSWTOR]

+1

 

Having the game/computer make the decisions FOR you in a macro (conditionals are horrible to allow to players in macros) gives coders a competitive advantage over those who do not know how to or do not care to (just having a good time) use them.

 

I like addons that give me more info or redesign my UI in a better way so that I have better info and widgets arranged on my UI in a way comfortable for me. However, that is the limit that any user-exposed API should go to. Macros, being naughty, should snuff it!

 

Er Zaph: Macros have not been allowed within UI Mods since EQ's time. Since DAY 1 it has been illegal in WoW to create a UI mod that allows your character to perform an action based upon a condition. You're absolutely correct that this would cause an unfair advantage, even at the point where a player with a faster computer or internet connection would aggregate and react to a situation than a player with a slower computer.

 

No "macroing" has been allowed in MMOs in many many years.

[DerexSWTOR]

@ Braushh:

 

"Casual people can group with other casual people and completely ignore/laugh at the damage meter. I've never once heard someone suggest they are leaving WoW because they allow meters or addons."

 

You're right, no one has ever said they're leaving WoW because it allows addons.

 

However, how many people have left WoW because of the information those addons provide? How many "I'm quitting because my class sucks!" posts have there been in WoW/EQ's history?

 

Christ dude, the class boards are RIFE with practically every post being either about how horrible another class is because it's better or how horrible that class is because it's worse.

 

How do you think these people come up with this? They're not just pulling numbers out of some warm dark smelly place.

 

They've got hard data from Recount and other Damage Meters.

 

So no, no one's ever left because WoW allows mods...but hundreds of thousands have left because WoW ALLOWED mods. (I'll leave that last statement up to the reader to figure out it's meaning.)

 

--Illydth

[Braushh]

short sighted? try comparing everything to what you are so used to having in the WoW-irrific game that you were weaned on.

 

also i enjoy how you insinuate that 'casual' players are the only ones that would be against you meter/customization needs. when that couldn't be further from the truth. there are legitimate players out there that are not from your school of thought, and reducing their ideas to the 'casual' level is subjective. what you have to understand is that not everyone started with WoW, and to suggest that the game should be more like the trainwreck that blizzard brainwashed everyone into thinking should be the standard is laughable at best. give the people the 'accomplishments' and they are something special, if the game was so good then go back

 

You assume again that I only have experience with WoW. I was an avid EQ player, but my point doesn't change. Limiting players options only hurt the game. The reason I am saying casual players is that most of the first few pages focused on casual players and their "feelings" that arise when meters are spammed in their chat box.

 

Typical poor community member.."you played wow and now you complain about my star warz! go bak to wow!". Get real dude. People like you don't help game communities, they damper it.

 

And back to my initial point, giving more options does not hurt games. If youre a serious progression raider, but despise the idea of meters or mods, then you can still go progress without said tools. Make a video about it. Rub it in the faces of all these "casual raiders" who enjoy said tools. But to spew garbage about limiting options is just stupid. Don't forget this game is a business, and to generate business is to broaden your product to as big a customer base as possible.

[MetallicaRulez]

However, how many people have left WoW because of the information those addons provide? How many "I'm quitting because my class sucks!" posts have there been in WoW/EQ's history?

 

This isn't the fault of addons. This is the fault of terrible developers not reacting to what are obvious balance issues. If Bioware actually USES these numbers to make balance changes instead of saying "Well, we don't want to turn players away due to too many balance changes!", then the game will be fine. I'm not lying at all about that quote, by the way. "The Roller Coaster Effect" is the real excuse Blizzard uses to justify not making needed balance changes. How absurd is that?

 

The reason so many people cry on WoW forums about balance is two-fold.

1.) Most of the people on the WoW forums are idiots and/or children who can't handle not getting their way.

2.) Blizzard ignores obvious balance issues because they don't want their super casual fanbase to get confused by constant buffs and nerfs. Even if it would benefit the game as a whole, they will simply ignore it. See: Beast Mastery Hunters for the last 4 years. They're unplayable and Blizzard just doesn't care.

[Braushh]

@ Braushh:

 

"Casual people can group with other casual people and completely ignore/laugh at the damage meter. I've never once heard someone suggest they are leaving WoW because they allow meters or addons."

 

You're right, no one has ever said they're leaving WoW because it allows addons.

 

However, how many people have left WoW because of the information those addons provide? How many "I'm quitting because my class sucks!" posts have there been in WoW/EQ's history?

 

Christ dude, the class boards are RIFE with practically every post being either about how horrible another class is because it's better or how horrible that class is because it's worse.

 

How do you think these people come up with this? They're not just pulling numbers out of some warm dark smelly place.

 

They've got hard data from Recount and other Damage Meters.

 

So no, no one's ever left because WoW allows mods...but hundreds of thousands have left because WoW ALLOWED mods. (I'll leave that last statement up to the reader to figure out it's meaning.)

 

--Illydth

 

I'll leave you with this statement..double digit millions of players at it's peak. What game has accomplished that in the MMO world? There will always be people complaining about class performance in these games, regardless of meters/addons. It's the nature of the beast.

 

Games that cater to all player bases will always thrive.

[Braushh]

This isn't the fault of addons. This is the fault of terrible developers not reacting to what are obvious balance issues. If Bioware actually USES these numbers to make balance changes instead of saying "Well, we don't want to turn players away due to too many balance changes!", then the game will be fine. I'm not lying at all about that quote, by the way. "The Roller Coaster Effect" is the real excuse Blizzard uses to justify not making needed balance changes. How absurd is that?

 

The reason so many people cry on WoW forums about balance is two-fold.

1.) Most of the people on the WoW forums are idiots and/or children who can't handle not getting their way.

2.) Blizzard ignores obvious balance issues because they don't want their super casual fanbase to get confused by constant buffs and nerfs. Even if it would benefit the game as a whole, they will simply ignore it. See: Beast Mastery Hunters for the last 4 years. They're unplayable and Blizzard just doesn't care.

 

First intelligent post I've seen in a few pages. It's not meters/addons that cause people to complain/quit/reroll. It's the lack of balance in the game..these tools help the average understand the details, that is all.

[Raeln]

Er Zaph: Macros have not been allowed within UI Mods since EQ's time. Since DAY 1 it has been illegal in WoW to create a UI mod that allows your character to perform an action based upon a condition. You're absolutely correct that this would cause an unfair advantage, even at the point where a player with a faster computer or internet connection would aggregate and react to a situation than a player with a slower computer.

 

No "macroing" has been allowed in MMOs in many many years.

 

Actually, that is incorrect. Macros and addons in WoW could perform condition logic from Vanilla release to 2.0 - which was about 2 years of game time. These addons included Healbot, CT_RaidAssist's healer assist, Autopotion, Decursive and some addon that drove you back from the graveyard to your corpse automatically.

 

Healbot originally had a one button mode where you pushed the button and it picked the heal and who needed the heal the most. You literally just spammed one button to heal.

 

Decursive originally autotargeted whoever had a debuff that you could cure. Just spam the button. Some people even mapped the button to their left and right movement keys to mindlessly remove debuffs while running around.

 

Autopotion originally slammed a health or mana potion on your next keypress whenever your health fell below a certain percentage. It had logic controls to select the appropriate potion that would give you the most efficient top off too. I remember fighting rogues that ran it. Also - potions did not have a 1 per combat limit either. Only a cooldown, like TOR has.

 

Don't remember the name of the addon that would drive you back from the graveyard to your corpse, but supposedly it worked.

 

Let's not forget Totem stomper addons too. Originally, they would autotarget a totem and fire a low cost ability to smash them without the player even being aware they destroyed it in PvP.

 

Pre-2.0, some classes [read: rogues] could import a macro that used condition logic to perform their entire combat cycle by repeatedly spamming one button. It checked the target for the appropriate debuffs and combo points and took that in account when decided what abilities to use.

 

People have a very legitimate concern about automation, macros and addons.

[kemmadar]

i am real dude...thanks for trying to make me sound like an idiot with intentionally misspelled paraphrasing to try to justify your points into concrete status, it was cute. however, it just shows your inability to understand that all people, including the games developers might not share your point of view. saying that my point is short sighted because in your mind the tools you desire are the only thing that will let the game grow? you define your own rhetoric with your responses and therefor i will not further the 'conversation' with you, since it is apparent that you are not a agree to disagree type person. understandable that you want features that helped you be successful in WoW in another game. sorry that you get your feelings hurt once you realized that you don't have the brain capacity to 'excel' in a new game without all your cheat tools

[Raeln]

First intelligent post I've seen in a few pages. It's not meters/addons that cause people to complain/quit/reroll. It's the lack of balance in the game..these tools help the average understand the details, that is all.

 

Some of the balance issues over the lifetime of WoW would have never came to light had damage meters been disallowed. The playerbase tends to exaggerate some issues to the point where a 2 or 3% difference in DPS between two classes is blown out of proportion to the point where the playerbase thinks it's 10 to 15%.

 

Remove damage meters and much of that QQ would have never happened in the first place.

[Braushh]

i am real dude...thanks for trying to make me sound like an idiot with intentionally misspelled paraphrasing to try to justify your points into concrete status, it was cute. however, it just shows your inability to understand that all people, including the games developers might not share your point of view. saying that my point is short sighted because in your mind the tools you desire are the only thing that will let the game grow? you define your own rhetoric with your responses and therefor i will not further the 'conversation' with you, since it is apparent that you are not a agree to disagree type person. understandable that you want features that helped you be successful in WoW in another game. sorry that you get your feelings hurt once you realized that you don't have the brain capacity to 'excel' in a new game without all your cheat tools

 

Good one? Way to remain on topic.

[Mondred]

Where's your heroic -anything- kill?

 

WoWs heroic endgame is still one of the most difficult challenges in the gaming world. SWTOR is pathetic in comparison. However, in terms of questing and solo play, SWTOR is much more challenging and I feel you really learn how to play your class to it's SOLO potential through doing the difficult elite story quests.

 

Also, no addons/customizing? Watch this game go the way of AoC in a few months. If you are truly a casual player, THEN WHY DO YOU CARE IF HARDCORE GAMERS USE ADDONS. How does someone elses customization ruin YOUR play?

 

If you say because they harass you for being bad by linking meters, I have bad news for you. You are actually bad, and someone pointed it out to you after carrying you through that content.

 

I personally don't mind most addon's in the game play it's when you become dependent on addons such as Deadly Boss Mods that it becomes a problem cause then your just a mindless zombie who should go back to text based RPG's. Other things that are bad about addons is that they often get miss used, Such as so-and-so isn't doing much dps and get's kicked even though they were doing there job and tanking something (as a dps like in Tempest Keep as a warlock) or they are out of range of the person with the meter and gets kicked cause it doesn't go off of combat logs. Those are when addon's become a problem. Another thing is when addon's/macro's make it possible to do 5 or 6 things with 1 button, then it becomes a problem for the people who like the thrill and the intensity in good PvP matches, and then they have to use it and hope that they hit there button first to kill them.