[PvP] Tactics? How are you doing it? It sucks!

[RehKi]

Here...

 

I'm lvl50 and I'm 99.9999% centurion/battlemaster DPS gear set, read: I have everything except a pair of boots which I modded with lvl50 mods. So I'm not that kind of guy that will go in green an say *** are you guys doing?

 

Here are the specs I tried:

 

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#801hMhZMsMrRrfkzsZb.1

Imo this is probably the most worty tactical build I tried. You get max aim (which is your dps) upgraded shockstrike which is imo your best "damage burst" skill and finaly you get everything needed to PvP into tactics. The problem is that you don't get storm and I pretty much think that storm is needed. Also, besides you combo, cryo > High impact > Gut > Ion x 432098023 I don't see any other valid combo besides starting with gut than high impact when cryo is down. Also I feel squishy as hell... and since I'm not using Ion I can't guard anyone and I'm not doing any kind of good damage. I've also found that in order to be effective you need to stay at 10m but... when you're out of CD... your out of luck!

 

 

So since I love storm (charge) I tried this build:

 

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#801uMhrdMboMZbsMMRRZb.1

Which wasn't that bad and I also tried to remove all high energy cell talent to put them into ion cells but... I couldn't find myself liking the build. The damage was comparable to my full shield spec but without guard or without speed or... it felt wierd... To be honest, it felt squishier, less utility and same damage.

 

 

With all tactic build I tried... I could get around 200~300k damage per game, with around 4-5 trophies in my "good games"... but when I'm using my shield PvP spec, I get around 150k~250k damage with 30k~100k protection and rarely under 9 trophies.

 

So whats up with tactic PvPer? Is there anything I'm missing?

 

 

Edit: Here is my shield spec

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#801hRGbkRbRgzZbsMZb.1

Edited January 3, 2012 by RehKi

[peanutabc]

dunno. felt underwhelmed with tactics, assault specialist seemed better when I tried it. 350k+ damage, 11 medals... In pvp tank gear...

[RehKi]

dunno. felt underwhelmed with tactics, assault specialist seemed better when I tried it. 350k+ damage, 11 medals... In pvp tank gear...

 

Care to share your spec? I wanted to try assault specialist next

[RehKi]

bump, cause I would like to get some input from players that plays tactical as their main PvP spec!

[peanutabc]

Care to share your spec? I wanted to try assault specialist next

 

can't remember it off by heart

 

was something like

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#8010MZMsZfhrrzhGrs.1

 

infact i'm not entirely sure, forgot the 6% elemental attack from there. you could probably make a better yourself. Think remove combat stims for the extra % elemental attacks.

Edited January 3, 2012 by peanutabc

[AintEvenMadBro]

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#801hRMZrsRrobfkbsZb.1

 

Use Ion cell, guard a healer - pewpew everything in sight. Emphasis on stockstriking as much as possible since it does awesome damage especially having it trigger ion damage and ensnare at 100% rate

[Jancro]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jeW2K_NRJLo&context=C3de9c67ADOEgsToPDskIZInThzLMQy5HD5ZG-78Hq

 

 

I don't know, this guy plays Tactics pretty well.

 

How come everyone is saying its so horrible?

[Illinois]

Your burst rotation is wrong for one. You use gut - sticky - fire - shock strike - high impact.

 

Fire bolt has a delay between the animation and when it hits, so this order you land a sticky grenade, fire bolt and shock strike in basically the same gcd, and it is followed by a high impact bolt. Seeing 2k, 3k 3k 3k for that combo isn't uncommon for me. And while that isn't as much burst that some classes have, you can do that and still maintain ion stance for guard and +60% armor.

Edited January 4, 2012 by Illinois

[Vilkaz]

tactic tree is more tactik, less dmg, you shud play it with ion cell.

 

somm examples of usage = 6 sek interupt cd, with 4 sek effekt"you cant cast the interuptet-skill"

 

now imagine a heal with 2,5 sek casttime.

 

[Repeat]

 

healer starts, you interupt, he cannot heal about next 4 sek with this heal.

 

aftter 4 sek (in a perfect world) he starts to cast it again, (you have 2 more sek cd)

 

then (in a perfect worrld) you interupt him again 0,5 sek before cast end.

 

[uNTIL caster dead]

 

as more tanki build you wil need many interupts to kill a healer anyways.

 

"hold position"

all 30 sek u are imune to slow for 8 sek, (and 30% faster) it meens that kinda 25% of the entire time you are imune to slow cc and u move 30% faster.

 

 

 

i will not name the other effects that you can read. the shorter cd to harpune is also v. nice but shield spezzed can make harpone with add 3 sek stun, so you can simply drag huttball carier on fire, and need no criogradane to stun him there.

 

thrue tactic tree + ion cell you also have guard and the def stance, that agives you way more survivability.

 

if all you want is dmg, then you wrong in pvp anyways.

[Tindahbawx]

Taugrim is doing videos on Trooper Vanguard tactics Build at the minute, he's well spoken, polite and explains things in a fair bit of detail, maybe try giving him a shout if hes streaming on Twitch at the minute.

 

http://taugrim.com/

Edited January 4, 2012 by Tindahbawx

[taugrimtaugrim]

Taugrim is doing videos on Trooper Vanguard tactics Build at the minute, he's well spoken, polite and explains things in a fair bit of detail, maybe try giving him a shout if hes streaming on Twitch at the minute.

 

http://taugrim.com/

 

So people understand, you have to be a good melee-strafer to be effective at playing Tactics and understand your mobility mechanics and how to wreck people with them.

 

In the past week, in the teens I was putting up over 290k damage as Tactics, and by 29 I was putting up over 310k damage. Keep in mind this is after there are already many higher-level players and 50s in warzones. We re-rolled to playing Republic a week ago so I'm behind the PVP leveling curve.

 

E.g. here is my level 20 Advanced Proto (mirror to Tactics) video where I put up 273k damage in a PUG:

 

Tactics is also fantastic at soloing healers, as shown in that clip where I finish off a 28 Commando and then a 28 Sage (a good player btw) solo as a 20 Powertech. The cooldown redux on Riot Strike is simply amazing.

 

Tactics really comes into its own once you are able to take the 15% run speed buff and Hold the Line. The mobility, counters to CC, and CC capability are simply incredible.

Edited January 4, 2012 by taugrimtaugrim

[taugrimtaugrim]

With all tactic build I tried... I could get around 200~300k damage per game, with around 4-5 trophies in my "good games"... but when I'm using my shield PvP spec, I get around 150k~250k damage with 30k~100k protection and rarely under 9 trophies.

 

If you're a geared 50 and you are in the 200-300k damage range as Tactics, there are things you must not be doing correctly.

 

Also, the medal mechanics favor tanks because you get the Protection bonuses.

[Tindahbawx]

Ah look, its the man himself! Keep up the good work Taugrim, its well appreciated!

[RehKi]

If you're a geared 50 and you are in the 200-300k damage range as Tactics, there are things you must not be doing correctly.

 

Also, the medal mechanics favor tanks because you get the Protection bonuses.

 

I'm lvl50

 

I have every centurion/battlemaster gears (supercommando set) available, with 2x DarkV relics with 42 endurance on both of them cause all the PvP relics sucks hard imo. I know those gears are tank gears... but they're still better than most of what you can get in blue/green and they aren't THAT far from the dps gears.

 

My recent tactic spec is:

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#801hRMZrsMrobfkdsZb.1

 

I run with Ion cells.... and use guard while dpsing. I have the 5% dmg buff from the gears when I guard someone.

 

My goal is to stack 5 generator and use the lowered CD pulse canon while keeping my 5 generator up.

 

Also, I will try to use gut and shockstrike to make my next HIB crit.

 

Since yesterday's discution I tried to use the gut > grenade > Fire > shock strike > HIB to burst someone with some sucess... but... you're dependent on lucky crits which I don't like.... and what I don't like is that after this rotation you're pretty much left with no ammo.

 

As for strafing... I got gladiator 2-3 season's as warlock and rogue in WoW before Cataclysm (cause I stopped playing) and rogue requires alot of strafing... so... I'm ok with it! I don't think personal skill is missing, more like.... I just don't understand the build and how it works. I understand shield and assault which I'm succesful with but.... having an hard time as tactics... but I want to learn.

 

That being said, I'm still not near your numbers with tactic spec build. Perhaps it's the build itself? Tactics just seems ALOT LESS burst damage and more constant damage which SUCKS HARD in PvP. You want to burst your target down, not /wave and /dance at them while you're tickling them to death!!

 

The only real thing I like about Tactics, is the lowered CD on harpoon and strike. I'll keep playing tactics till I understand the spec or till I'm sooo frustrated that I just cross the spec from my talent tree haha!

[Bloberts]

Target other tanks seeing a though most of ur damage bypasses armor. Profit.

[Mavic]

Honestly the OP's specs are kind of garbo. Find a good healer to run with, and guard them. If you want to DPS you should have gone commando.

[TehMerc]

Honestly the OP's specs are kind of garbo. Find a good healer to run with, and guard them. If you want to DPS you should have gone commando.

 

Yeah, no.

 

Assault is more than fine, Shield has it's bonuses, Tactics is just in a wierd spot at the moment, doesn't mean I don't keep up with most commandos. And I definitely contribute more in Huttball.

 

The thing that really holds Tactics back is it can't reset it's hard hitters like the other specs can (Shielding an attack refreshes shield spec's +30% crit and +30% crit damage stockstrike, Assault can refresh their 90% armor pen HiB which shoots for free and reapplies plasma cell).

 

Like someone said in the other thread, there's not enough synergy that actually effects your burst like the other specs get.

[Staleningrad]

This is currently the build I'm using, it's a mix of Tactics and Assault Specialist. Works perfectly for me.

 

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#8010MZrsrMobcoZfGMbzh.1

Edited January 4, 2012 by Staleningrad

[aRtFuL]

Like someone said in the other thread, there's not enough synergy that actually effects your burst like the other specs get.

 

There is plenty, people I see are just not using the correct abilities rotation.

 

Key thing to remember in tactics is, fire pulse garrantees free stockstrike, ion pulse builds up pulse generator for ion cannon which will likely to give 1 free stockstrike, and all the free stockstrikes will probably give you a guarrantee crit HiB.

 

Add 10 pts in assault you will love your ion pulse spamming (constantly snaring your opponent while you are pretty much freely moving at 30% faster than anyone else most of the time because of Hold the Line).

[TehMerc]

There is plenty, people I see are just not using the correct abilities rotation.

 

Key thing to remember in tactics is, fire pulse garrantees free stockstrike, ion pulse builds up pulse generator for ion cannon which will likely to give 1 free stockstrike, and all the free stockstrikes will probably give you a guarrantee crit HiB.

 

Add 10 pts in assault you will love your ion pulse spamming (constantly snaring your opponent while you are pretty much freely moving at 30% faster than anyone else most of the time because of Hold the Line).

 

You'll run out of ammo quickly in any fight that lasts longer than usual using Plasma Cell for the Snare. And ammo free stockstrikes aren't nearly the same as resetting the cooldown on an ability, not sure how you make the comparison there.

 

So you basically have one stock and one Gut before you fire off HiB, not sure where you're getting all this "all those stocks guarantee a crit" from, as spamming Gut in pvp on one target to proc Combat Tactics is beyond bad and waiting 9 seconds for a second stockstrike is very unadvisable.

 

It's not a wrong rotation, there's just no way to keep up burst damage like the other specs.

[aRtFuL]

You'll run out of ammo quickly in any fight that lasts longer than usual using Plasma Cell for the Snare. And ammo free stockstrikes aren't nearly the same as resetting the cooldown on an ability, not sure how you make the comparison there.

 

I don't see how you will run out of ammo quickly. I never did. What was your fighting method as Tactics? Are you doing it as you would shield spec or assault? if that was the case that's the problem right there. Tactics is not about staying in the midst of things, it is about kiting and catching stragglers (that's how I play it anyways). If you play it like you do shield spec or assault of course you will run out of ammo quickly, because assault is all about dots and kiting is not as important and shield spec is about running in and guarding others.

 

So you basically have one stock and one Gut before you fire off HiB, not sure where you're getting all this "all those stocks guarantee a crit" from, as spamming Gut in pvp on one target to proc Combat Tactics is beyond bad and waiting 9 seconds for a second stockstrike is very unadvisable.

 

I think you are confused as to what I said. I said a chance of getting guarrantee HiB crit (check tactic's talent, combat tactics), not getting a guarrantee HiB crit after every stockstrike. That's not the same thing.

 

Also, I never spam gut. In fact I hardly uses it besides starters, don't see the point as Plasma cell + ion pulse keeps DoT up to make HiB available most times anyways (and at greater range). I rather use stockstrike to try to proc crit HiB, since stockstrike will be free very often and is part of the rotation anyways.

 

It's not a wrong rotation, there's just no way to keep up burst damage like the other specs.

 

Again, I'm not certain what play method/strategies you favours, but for kiting+burst I have not problems with Tactics.

[grandmasterub]

I am planning to use one of these two specs (only 20 so not sure yet)

 

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#801ZrsMrobckzZfhMrzh.1

*this one should offer higher dps but you're squishier. idea on this one is harass harass harass. make it hell for anyone on the other team to do anything.

 

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#801hRMrdoZMsrrobckzZb.1

*this one is obviously for surviving longer... ideally i'd pick a healer and stick to him like glue. I might be better to swap out and get storm instead of hold the line... not really sure.

[RehKi]

kk just to let you know I'm getting the hang of it!

 

while in shield spec and in assault you need to spam buttons in order to do your dps... in tactics specs you need to lay back and take your time.

 

Basicaly... you need to chill wait for an opportunity and than use it.

 

I upped my damage by around 50k yesterday just by chilling.

 

 

Imo... I don't like this kind of spec... but.... yah.... I guess it's doable!

[Kjetl]

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#801hRMZrsRrobfkbsZb.1

 

Use Ion cell, guard a healer - pewpew everything in sight. Emphasis on stockstriking as much as possible since it does awesome damage especially having it trigger ion damage and ensnare at 100% rate

 

This is my build, except I took Kolto Rechaarge and the second Power armor over Frontline defense, and I run in ion cell. In Wz's I'm #1 or 2 on damage and kills, top 3 on medals (usually #1).

 

I autorun and strafe 99% of the fight, circling the fight and running through players I've picked for the SS > gut > HIB hug.

 

I do 250k damage and 60k guard on a commando, more on a sage or sentinel.

 

I'm just gearing, and am thinking about wearing tank (supercommando) armor for more survivability with maybe a piece of eliminator and elim accessories.

[fife]

I went tactics, but i really don't feel I have enough burst for pvp I could see going tactics if you wanna play more harrassment, less up front damage, but i still say the other speccs offer way more in terms of pvp.

 

Assault Plastique hits like a truck btw