SWTOR "Behind The Times"

[Neevah]

SWG had some nice bells and whistles but you are obviously on drugs. The missions were bugged constantly and stayed broken for years. One npc you had to talk to was aggressive and things would get stuck in walls or rubberband off your screen. Nothing was straightforward and everything was this meandering nowhere goal. It was great that it was skill based but I am happy with how swtor turned out. If I had to pick a lvl based system, this is it. I liked aspects of swg but you're seeing things thru rose colored goggles. It was largely boring and repetitive. It had problems and just when they got to the point they could have fixed it up, they decided to dumb it down to low grade moron level. My guess is that lucas's idiot son tried to play, failed like a loser, then whined to his father to nerf it. And where is your exhaustive defense of wow? Tell us please just how it's great in his questlines. Noone read that garbage, it was basically anarchy online level of depth and people just skipped it and hoped to rush thru it. I found nothing more a waste of time in my life than farming kills in firelands or wherever for one pair of epic boots. Both games are dinosaurs. Adapt or become extinct.

[Iknar]

SWG had some nice bells and whistles but you are obviously on drugs. The missions were bugged constantly and stayed broken for years. One npc you had to talk to was aggressive and things would get stuck in walls or rubberband off your screen. Nothing was straightforward and everything was this meandering nowhere goal. It was great that it was skill based but I am happy with how swtor turned out. If I had to pick a lvl based system, this is it. I liked aspects of swg but you're seeing things thru rose colored goggles. It was largely boring and repetitive. It had problems and just when they got to the point they could have fixed it up, they decided to dumb it down to low grade moron level. My guess is that lucas's idiot son tried to play, failed like a loser, then whined to his father to nerf it. And where is your exhaustive defense of wow? Tell us please just how it's great in his questlines. Noone read that garbage, it was basically anarchy online level of depth and people just skipped it and hoped to rush thru it. I found nothing more a waste of time in my life than farming kills in firelands or wherever for one pair of epic boots. Both games are dinosaurs. Adapt or become extinct.

 

you must not have clearly understood what I was saying. TOR is a great game and I will continue to play it because I know that most of the features I'm asking for are comming in the future. My point was there is so much content that these game developers can release yet they follow WoW's "play it safe" standards. TOR can be the greatest MMO ever if bioware wants it to be. They just need to be more creative and get out of WoWs shadow. Like I said, steal some ideas from SWG it had the potential to be the greatest game but failed because of imbalance And unnesscary combat revamps.

[Iknar]

The big issue has been the funding required to develop those mmo's WELL.

 

Those MMO's never seem to get a big enough budget and enough time to really develop and thus they come out with a bunch of brilliant concepts but ultimately fall apart due to being half-baked.

 

1.6 million subs and not enough money.... I find this hard to believe.

If they don't release a lot of features quick there going to lose everything. Im upset that I waited 2 years since the "original" expected launch date and they still don't even have some basic features added to the game yet. And to mention end game content is very limited at this point. people are clearing 16 man hard modes as we speak. It's lack of creativity and copy and paste of wow. Steal ideas from SWG please somebody do it.

[Iknar]

Bump.

[TKMaster]

8 years SWG vet.....SWG paled (already) in comparison to TOR.

[Stealthy_Monkey]

SWG was widely lampooned as the worst A level mmo produced in a long time. Though I think the matrix online might have had a shot at the title a few years ago.

 

As someone who would love SWTOR to succeed in the long term, the fewer ideas brought over from SWG the better

[Talimar]

SWTOR: Warzones, dailys or an instance.

 

While SWG had its flaws like any other game Sony managed to keep us inthralled by the sheer openness of the game. 36 professions? Yes 36 different professions that your character could set out to master from the start of the game.

 

Nostalgia truly is blind. There were 32 professions. Yes, 32.

 

I grinded them all. Several times.

[Iknar]

Nostalgia truly is blind. There were 32 professions. Yes, 32.

 

I grinded them all. Several times.

 

haha my bad i couldnt recall if it was 36 or 32... (ill edit that)

 

The point is if SWTOR is going to copy WoW on a lot of bases why not take the good features from other MMO's as well, im guess i'm tired of playing WoW clones... but with a combination of several good features from multiple mmo's maybe that would change.

[skorpius]

haha my bad i couldnt recall if it was 36 or 32... (ill edit that)

 

The point is if SWTOR is going to copy WoW on a lot of bases why not take the good features from other MMO's as well, im guess i'm tired of playing WoW clones... but with a combination of several good features from multiple mmo's maybe that would change.

 

Hey Nub, WoW is clone itself. All MMO's are clones except the few like Ultima Online.

[Iknar]

Hey Nub, WoW is clone itself. All MMO's are clones except the few like Ultima Online.

 

thanks nub, i think SWTOR should pull features from ultima online instead of WoW, thanks nub

[Darth_Gao_Gao]

i never played SWG, but i come from eve online. i understand your concerns for this game, and i share them. while i do not think this game will ever offer as in-depth of sandbox options that were in SWG or are currently in EVE, i think that some sandbox elements can certainly be borrowed to give the game more life. i also agree that certain standards of MMO gaming were left out, and you listed many of them.

 

i'm still optimistic though. i think the game as it currently is could serve as a great foundation for something many could enjoy.

[ApesAmongUs]

Never thought someone would have fond memories of this. To each his own. Most crafters dreaded the planetary run all over the place to find the perfect spot... for all 10 harvesters they had.

The resource searching was a way to vastly improve the quality of your goods in a trade skill that didn't involve grinding or looking for rare drops from high level things that you couldn't kill as a crafter. It was the only pure crafting mechanic ever implemented in a MMO and it is sad that no one has seen fit to do anything remotely as beneficial to the crafting community as this in any game since.

 

Crafters could strive to be the best at crafting without reliance on also leveling up in the PvE game and without being carried by others. Why wouldn't we have fond memories of that?

[VicSkimmr]

Strange, after I posted this the first time it didnt show up on the forum...

 

the forum spat it back out because it's a duplicate thread

[TheHeadCapper]

The big issue has been the funding required to develop those mmo's WELL.

 

Those MMO's never seem to get a big enough budget and enough time to really develop and thus they come out with a bunch of brilliant concepts but ultimately fall apart due to being half-baked.

 

 

it's a very niche audience. You aren't going to get huge money poured into sandbox games, they just don't have a big playersbase.

 

I liked SWG and I like sandbox games, but i'm also realistic about it.

[Asuka]

SWTOR: Warzones, dailys or an instance.

 

SWG: Bounty hunt Jedi, kill kryat dragons, find an awesome spot to place these harvesters, unlock a holocron, go destroy rebel PvP bases, build an entire city of houses with economy taxes guild hall and strategic housing placement for PvP tactical advantage, drop swordsman and pick up architect (or one of 32 other professions), Duel Jedi from opposing factions and slay them to gain rank up the Jedi council, Start a vendor in my house with custom items that nobody else in the galaxy sells, camp the acklay spawn, or be anything you want to be with almost no limitations.

 

WoW: Battlegrounds, dailys, raid the opposing factions main city and take down their leader, do arenas or an instance.

 

Anyone who played SWG pre update before Sony sent the game into a downward spiraling apocalypse knows that this game had some of the best features to hit the MMO scene of all time. While SWG had its flaws like any other game Sony managed to keep us inthralled by the sheer openness of the game. 32 professions? Yes 32 different professions that your character could set out to master from the start of the game. The weapons and armor in the game were all one of a kind, no items had the exact same stats unless made by the same crafter with the exact same materials. This set your character apart from everyone else in the galaxy by weilding a weapon with "unknown power" as you slayed your foes in battle. One of the greatest features SWG managed to nail on the head was their player city's and town government system. Making your own house come to life with furniture, vendors, and having rare items hanging on your walls gave your character a home and a meeting place to gather with your friends before setting out on the days journey to slay the mighty Kryat Dragons of Tatooine. These are just a few nimble recants of the glory days in the original SWG.

 

If your gonna make an MMO with similar end game features to WoW then why short your customers with features that have been available to their customer base for several years now? Ui customizations, guild banks, chat bubbles, dual spec, legacy rewards, lvl 50 chat, late game character customization, combat logs, targets target, PvP ranking system and a search feature on the trade market just to name a few.

 

Before you go off on me saying what does this have to do with TOR? Or why don't you go play WoW or SWG if you liked it so much? The point I would like to make is why arnt we seeing these types of features in MMO's At launch anymore? Every MMO that has been released recently has been a cookie cutter World of Warcraft play it safe to make money Video game. I quit WoW a Long time ago and while I remain loyal to TOR in hopes that the current gameplay experience will improve, I still remain blown away by the fact that none of these developers are stealing ideas from the amazing open world feel that SWG used or the massive amount of customizations and add ons that WoW offered. All I can say is I hope that one day a developer will share the same feelings that I do towards the current MMO standards. Thanks for taking the time to read my 2 sense on why Swtor is "Behind the times."

 

SWG was massacred a year after it was launched. Everything SWG was grade A dumpster trash after that.

[MrTijger]

The resource searching was a way to vastly improve the quality of your goods in a trade skill that didn't involve grinding or looking for rare drops from high level things that you couldn't kill as a crafter. It was the only pure crafting mechanic ever implemented in a MMO and it is sad that no one has seen fit to do anything remotely as beneficial to the crafting community as this in any game since.

 

Crafters could strive to be the best at crafting without reliance on also leveling up in the PvE game and without being carried by others. Why wouldn't we have fond memories of that?

 

Correct me if Im wrong but you dont need to level your character up to level crafting up in this game.

[TheHeadCapper]

Hey Nub, WoW is clone itself. All MMO's are clones except the few like Ultima Online.

 

The kids don't know that, everything revolves around WoW.

[Skerry]

It isn't that SWTOR is behind the times, it is that every game at some point is behind the times.

 

SO many games of years past have had incredible aspects to it. Maybe not the game overall, but a mechanic or feature that was just outstanding - why it never translated further is a mystery to many veteran MMOs.

 

SWG, Shadowbane, Horizons, DAOC, CoH/CoV on and on and on - had at least 1 thing that got left behind as the games progressed.

 

 

If some company had the balls to take the best features of all the games of the past, repackage them into one game; add some flair - it would be one hell of a game.

 

none have done that though.

/shrug.

[Amdarius]

Laying down the first guild hall on the Chilastra server was one of the more joyful moments I've ever experienced in any MMO. Most of our guild were in the beta, so we knew what was required. Immediately after launch, everybody in the guild devoted their time and effort to collecting the resources while our architect (me) grinded up his skill. Threw down the guild hall and our guild took off, becoming one of the best known on Chilastra.

 

Soon after we had houses popping up.. we ended up with about 100 houses forming a perimeter for our town. Soon after Sony added the various buildings you could add to your city.. a shuttle bay. Bank, etc. So awesome. Then they added the PVP structures and gear, so we had a couple AT-STs patrolling our city, we had stormtroopers spawning from the bases we placed that would defend our city.. just epic. No game since has come close to replicating the PVP/RVR features that SWG had in place. And it was the most immersive and best MMO experience I've had other than my first year playing EQ1, when everything was new and getting a mino axe and banded armor meant you were l33t.

 

This is why sandbox games are epic. And why games-on-rails like SWTOR are fun for awhile while you can play through the story the games design for you.. but after that they die because there's nothing in place to allow you to create your own story. On SWG/Chilastra, the server constantly had epic battles going on and people exploring new classes and battling over territory. We created our own quests, our own challenges. We didn't need to go from one clump of quest givers to the next, collecting that next piece of green gear.. We instead turned to reputable and well known armorcrafters, droid makers, weaponcrafters, etc to kit ourselves. There was a VERY strong sense of community in SWG and you knew everybody, especially your most hated and feared rivals.

[Aram_Darksun]

you must not have clearly understood what I was saying. TOR is a great game and I will continue to play it because I know that most of the features I'm asking for are comming in the future. My point was there is so much content that these game developers can release yet they follow WoW's "play it safe" standards. TOR can be the greatest MMO ever if bioware wants it to be. They just need to be more creative and get out of WoWs shadow. Like I said, steal some ideas from SWG it had the potential to be the greatest game but failed because of imbalance And unnesscary combat revamps.

 

I said the same thing in beta. My (near) exact words were "Play it safe" seems to have been the mantra when making this game. It is nicely vindicating to hear the same thing from someone else.

 

While they have avoided risky features which may have flopped, the game as is can't really excell either. However, I have since come to the opinion that the 'play it safe' is a good potential springboard as long as they are not afraid to expand beyond this model in the future. Maybe they should just take it a step at a time and also be willing to take a step back if needed.

 

As for the talk of clones, so what. Judge it by it's own merits (or lack of them), rather than on the traits of another product.

 

Correct me if Im wrong but you dont need to level your character up to level crafting up in this game.

 

That is right. If they had of put caps on your crafting level they could have avoided the recent slicing and the illum resource node issues. My suggestion would have been a skill cap of 10 x your class level letting you max out your crew skill when you hit 40.

Edited January 6, 2012 by Aram_Darksun