BH Healing for PVE

[Chorusgirl]

With the nerf to surge, where does this put surge in our stat weights and priority? Do we still want to obtain a reasonable amount?

 

From what I've read/heard surge is still a really good stat for us, but the diminishing returns increases so we will just need more to reach the same level. I'm at 238 surge and removing 50 surge reduces my crit multiplier by roughly 3%.

 

Crit/Surge enhancements are hard to come by on my server. Last I checked, they were going for 500k per. You should still pick up surge on your non modded gear such as your ear and implants. Our guns have surge enhancements but they're only 56 instead of 58. I'll expand on this later when there is more math around regarding the specific levels of surge you want with the nerf.

[Wisz_Rethon]

lol , yesterday after the patch I landed 2 consecutive 4k heals with the normal scan on a healer that was in trouble.

 

I have never seen that before...

 

I'm dps specced

[TempestasSilva]

With the nerf to surge, where does this put surge in our stat weights and priority? Do we still want to obtain a reasonable amount?

Yes.

 

Best answer at the moment is to use this:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AvwIIORblfXkdEZJRjY4aWhobFFlQ0k3TDJVOUFMbnc&hl=en_US#gid=0

[TempestasSilva]

"People dissing Muzzle Fluting since we already have gas? Funny. :)"

Nope, totally serious.

 

"I think I run with, both pve and pvp since I am too bored to switch specs for pvp:"

And yet this is a PVE healing thread.

 

"I miss out 1-2% healing out and/or 1-2 points of vent heat."

Which is bad.

 

 

"relic+adrenal+gas+power shot spam, it's definitely nothing to sneeze at, just insane burst."

Agreed, but muzzle fluting does not increase the damage.

 

 

"Gas, DFA, Fusion, power shot spam and back at 0 heat"

It is already heat negative w/o muzzle fluting. Assuming you are not a baddie and your heat <40:

Lets say you pop SCG and do 6 PS. 6 PS under SCG = 48 heat. Minus the 16 heat from SCG =32. Minus the 5 heat/second you disperse which is 45 heat = -13 heat. So it is already heat negative w/o muzzle fluting. In fact, with muzzle fluting, even if you were at 40 heat, you'd dissipate more than 40 heat, so you would in effect be WASTING REGEN while sitting at zero heat.

 

 

 

"Calling it bad is IMHO just plain wrong. It is very situational in PvE, but extremely useful clutch at points. Not to mention in pvp I get tons of mileage out of it. I like it. Your mileage may vary."

Again this is a PVE thread. I can't make you like or dislike something, I can only give you the facts and hope you figure it out on your own.

Edited February 15, 2012 by TempestasSilva

[Brakner]

With the nerf to surge, where does this put surge in our stat weights and priority? Do we still want to obtain a reasonable amount?

 

I had 320 ish surge at around 85%, when I logged in it was 76% so a 9% hit. I then removed 2 Crit/Surge 50 enhancements from my 2 Tionese and replaced them back with the 51 Power/Alac.

 

This gave me 73% Surge and boosted my power by 72, the funny thing is I only lost 1.5% crit because I was ridiculously over the DR (now 34% crit , 39% tech). I also did a Respec to remove System Calibration's 4% to offset the added 80 Alac from the 51 mods.

 

We then did HM BP, Foundry and False Emp for the Weekly and I didn’t noticed any real difference at all, my crits are about 300 less but with the added power on my base heals are higher so it evens out over the boss fight.

 

 

 

p.s. Running 2 Tionese, 2 Columni pieces plus belt/wrist and ear

Edited February 15, 2012 by Brakner

[Ewert]

"People dissing Muzzle Fluting since we already have gas? Funny. :)"

Nope, totally serious.

So am I in laughing at you. Also please do read the full phrase, "since we already have gas", as in how muzzle fluting is supposedly useless due to gas reducing the cost. It is _more_ powerful due to gas.

"I think I run with, both pve and pvp since I am too bored to switch specs for pvp:"

And yet this is a PVE healing thread.

 

"I miss out 1-2% healing out and/or 1-2 points of vent heat."

Which is bad.

See where I mentioned "switch specs for pvp"? That means "I run my pve spec like this". Funny, this being a pve thread?

 

1% of healing is 1%, whether the capability to burst insane amounts overvalues that loss is the question. I solo-healed HM 8man EV the other night, and yes that 0 heat cost power shot does come in handy in Soa phase 3. You know as nobody is really taking any dmg, and you should be bursting your *** off? Or Fabricator. Or just plain making trash go by faster. Or soloing your council member (okay I confess I killed mine first of all of us so it was a bit overkill). Etc.

"relic+adrenal+gas+power shot spam, it's definitely nothing to sneeze at, just insane burst."

Agreed, but muzzle fluting does not increase the damage.

LoL, and do tell me how you are gonna _go straight back to healing from 0 heat_ without muzzle fluting after that burst? That is a massive increase to damage per heat, oh wait it is an infinite increase of dmg/heat as it gets it to 0 heat cost.

"Gas, DFA, Fusion, power shot spam and back at 0 heat"

It is already heat negative w/o muzzle fluting. Assuming you are not a baddie and your heat <40:

Lets say you pop SCG and do 6 PS. 6 PS under SCG = 48 heat. Minus the 16 heat from SCG =32. Minus the 5 heat/second you disperse which is 45 heat = -13 heat. So it is already heat negative w/o muzzle fluting. In fact, with muzzle fluting, even if you were at 40 heat, you'd dissipate more than 40 heat, so you would in effect be WASTING REGEN while sitting at zero heat.

So you don't have any alacrity? I get it now I guess. Lets see, you were at 20-30 heat, pop SCG, use DFA, either use TSO or not and use fusion missile, and then do 8 power shots. Oooh I see how what you mean, no heat problem at all without muzzle fluting (6+25+33+8*8 = 128 heat - 13*5 = 65, no problem at all ...)

"Calling it bad is IMHO just plain wrong. It is very situational in PvE, but extremely useful clutch at points. Not to mention in pvp I get tons of mileage out of it. I like it. Your mileage may vary."

Again this is a PVE thread. I can't make you like or dislike something, I can only give you the facts and hope you figure it out on your own.

I can give you "facts" too but lets face it we are comparing opinions here. You have yours, I have mine, and don't be funny and say yours are "facts". Only facts we have can be checked out in-game or Torhead or somewhere like that ...

Edited February 15, 2012 by Ewert

[DomingoDarkrage]

This is a thread about healing, not about skill rotations during supercharge gas. We all know that we can burn mobs using supercharge using power shot and unload for low heat cost. You are not contributing towards the "healing" aspect of this thread by discussing damage output. If you are at 0 heat without anyone to heal (via skill or rapid shots) we know we are to throw out a bit of dps.

 

Muzzle fluting for pve healing is a bad idea. It is great for leveling, but we are not talking about that here. We keep the DPS/tank alive so they do their job. I'm sure it can be useful for a hybrid pvp character as well, but not for a pve healing spec merc.

[Brakner]

This is a thread about healing, not about skill rotations during supercharge gas. We all know that we can burn mobs using supercharge using power shot and unload for low heat cost. You are not contributing towards the "healing" aspect of this thread by discussing damage output. If you are at 0 heat without anyone to heal (via skill or rapid shots) we know we are to throw out a bit of dps.

 

Muzzle fluting for pve healing is a bad idea. It is great for leveling, but we are not talking about that here. We keep the DPS/tank alive so they do their job. I'm sure it can be useful for a hybrid pvp character as well, but not for a pve healing spec merc.

 

Please explain to me why DPSing using Muzzle Fluting without Gas is such a bad idea? And what else should I use the 1 point in? I think you need to add a IMHO to your statement. With a competent Tank and DPS who know how to use cool downs / med packs there are times I want to save my Gas for damage spikes and I want to still contribute to DPS. Fluting allows me to fire multiple Power Shots in a row and still be under 25% heat.

 

It seems to me people in this thread have WoW mentality and feel healers should just heal and not actually contribute to DPS or DPS should just DPS. In all of guild HM/OP all players contribute, DPS bubbles or Off heals, Healer DPS. Maybe we do things different but we have had no issues with anything so far (no nightmares yet thought)

 

It's a new game, you don't have to do things the same way.

 

My spec

 

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#300bfRMRdcdkqZrck.1

Edited February 15, 2012 by Brakner

[Chorusgirl]

Yes.

 

Best answer at the moment is to use this:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AvwIIORblfXkdEZJRjY4aWhobFFlQ0k3TDJVOUFMbnc&hl=en_US#gid=0

 

Nice! Thanks for maintaining this.

[TempestasSilva]

1) This is a PVE Thread. I'm glad you like your build for PvP and PvE. For your situation, muzzle fluting is great. However, again, it is irrelevant for this thread.

2) You want to keep changing the argument to justify taking a ridiculous talent when talking about PVE healing. We went from discussing spamming PS under SCG to now we are doing DFA, FM, and 8*PS, which wont fit under SCG regardless of your alacrity, but whatever. Even under your new scenario, the heat w/o MF is still manageable and it adds no DPS. So it is pointless from a PVE perspective. Using your numbers, you gain 128 heat. You dissipated (depending on your amazing amount of alacrity which itself may be bad, but thats a different topic.) AT LEAST 82 heat leaving at most 46 heat. If you are wanting to be such a cool DPSer, you must be having an easy time of healing so you probably started at around 0 heat and won't need any big heals right after so RS for free heat will do fine. If not, there is always Vent Heat or you could be a little less aggressive or you could have TSO'd the FM. Regardless, you still have not made a valid point for Muzzle Fluting. Its only viable use in a Bodyguard build is for leveling and PvP.

3) If you want to start dropping useful healing talents for DPS ones, why stop there when you could swap Emergency scan for Tracer Missile? Oh yeah, because you are a healer and this is a PVE healing thread.

4) With your logic, I should go into the PVE DPS threads and tout giving up a little bit of DPS skills for healing skills because sometimes I can heal and help our OPs group too.

 

Normally I wouldn't care, but I hate people spreading bad info. People come in this thread needing info about PvE healing. I don't want them thinking "Wow I should be taking Muzzle Fluting"

 

If you want to tout the benefits of muzzle fluting in a PvE/PvP hybrid build, great, go make a thread on it. Seriously.

[TempestasSilva]

Nice! Thanks for maintaining this.

 

Just for clarification that is RuQu's info/document, I just found it.

[Chorusgirl]

Please explain to me why DPSing using Muzzle Fluting without Gas is such a bad idea?

 

IMO If you have too many healers in your raid then respec to a real dps spec.

 

And what else should I use the 1 point in?

 

Considering that we're discussing pve healing:

 

Improved Vents - 2 talent points

System Calibrations - 2 talent points

 

These two talents increase your healing output. I know people can solo heal hard mode ops and what not but for those that are serious about maximizing healing efficiency and output especially for new nightmare mode content (in March) would laugh at this spec

 

Alacrity might be our worst stat but it's still better than spending points in 4% damage reduction or extra pushback resistance while energy shield is up (pvp talents). Sorry was supposed to say Missle Fluting.

 

Someone said they were too bored to respec - I call it lazy

 

I'll end this with - the above build is a PVP Spec

 

Edited

Edited February 15, 2012 by Chorusgirl

[TempestasSilva]

Please explain to me why DPSing using Muzzle Fluting without Gas is such a bad idea? And what else should I use the 1 point in?

My spec

 

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#300bfRMRdcdkqZrck.1

 

1) If you are going to occasionally throw out a PS to help dps, why not throw an unload for more damage and better damage/heat even compared to a PS with MF?

2) Assuming you know what you are doing by taking Critical Reactions without System Calibrations, You'd still be better off putting the point in Custom Enviro Suite since its worthless in MF. And as long as you are moving ponts around, how often do you use the points in Cure mind or Power Shield in PvE?

[Brakner]

IMO If you have too many healers in your raid then respec to a real dps spec.

 

 

 

Considering that we're discussing pve healing:

 

Improved Vents - 2 talent points

System Calibrations - 2 talent points

 

These two talents increase your healing output. I know people can solo heal hard mode ops and what not but for those that are serious about maximizing healing efficiency and output especially for new nightmare mode content (in March) would laugh at this spec

 

Alacrity might be our worst stat but it's still better than spending points in 4% damage reduction or extra pushback resistance while energy shield is up (pvp talents). Sorry was supposed to say Missle Fluting.

 

Someone said they were too bored to respec - I call it lazy

 

I'll end this with - the above build is a PVP Spec

 

Edited

 

Maybe you should change the thread title to PVE healing in Nightmare and future content? Because saying that 4% damage reduction and muzzle fluting in HM Flashpoints is useless is being elitist. The damage reduction helps with me not having to heal myself as much and the muzzle fluting helps with killing bosses faster which = less healing. It might not work in NM operation but I thought this thread was about all BH healing in the whole game.

 

Taking System Calibration is not needed because all the Columni pieces have Alacrity and you also have Critical Reaction up pretty much all the time. But again, if you are talking just Rakata gear the change the thread title to “BH Healing in Nighmare”

‘

 

It might be silly for Nightmare as you need every ounce of healing but this is a generic thread about ALL BH healing and since a very very small percentage of people do NM I think you need to consider different (and equally effective for regular and HM) play styles for the rest of the player base. If not, change your title.

Edited February 15, 2012 by Brakner

[Ewert]

1) This is a PVE Thread. I'm glad you like your build for PvP and PvE. For your situation, muzzle fluting is great. However, again, it is irrelevant for this thread.

Well I tried to say why muzzle fluting is good, my spec was just a sideline, the more important part is that it enables a full burn mode for one single point. I totally understand many of you are super fixated on talking of pure healing output and thus ignoring what a one single talent point can do for burst ability. For PvE it is important too in a ton of situations, I mean I get uses out of it even while solo healing a HM 8man. Important uses, for example our last weeks Soa kill went chaotic at end and into enrage, and me being able to burst along with everyone else without gimping my heat was definitely an important factor.

 

It is not irrelevant for this thread if you discuss the pve from healer point of view, not just pure statistical healing. 1% healing or heatstabile VERY competitive bursting ability, your choice.

2) You want to keep changing the argument to justify taking a ridiculous talent when talking about PVE healing. We went from discussing spamming PS under SCG to now we are doing DFA, FM, and 8*PS, which wont fit under SCG regardless of your alacrity, but whatever.

Riiiight. And you are the one talking about facts? 22% haste, 78% * 1.5 secs * 9 (8x PS + FM) = 10.53, + 2.34 from DFA < 13secs. How about you check your comments beforehands? Only reason to use DFA and FM in there is because they are higher dps and to avoid the 0 heat wasted regen. So, no, I did not change the argument at all. That is spamming PS during gas.

Even under your new scenario, the heat w/o MF is still manageable and it adds no DPS. So it is pointless from a PVE perspective. Using your numbers, you gain 128 heat. You dissipated (depending on your amazing amount of alacrity which itself may be bad, but thats a different topic.) AT LEAST 82 heat leaving at most 46 heat. If you are wanting to be such a cool DPSer, you must be having an easy time of healing so you probably started at around 0 heat and won't need any big heals right after so RS for free heat will do fine. If not, there is always Vent Heat or you could be a little less aggressive or you could have TSO'd the FM. Regardless, you still have not made a valid point for Muzzle Fluting. Its only viable use in a Bodyguard build is for leveling and PvP.

I'm sorry, could you use some facts with your comments? That's pretty incomprehensible on what you are trying to say. I was showing you the number of heat gained _without_ MF. AND since this is a topic about healing, you want to stay HEAT NEUTRAL while you burst, so you have all your CDs still available for your main duty, healing. So no, you can't waste your vent for the dps burst, nor TSO.

 

Even if I'm solo healing, and I can find the time on some bosses to join into a dps burst. If we have 2 healers, I can join most dps burst times. Sure, that does not tick "healing only" checkbox, but this game actually has viable burst from healers too so how about advancing your game a bit more varied?

3) If you want to start dropping useful healing talents for DPS ones, why stop there when you could swap Emergency scan for Tracer Missile? Oh yeah, because you are a healer and this is a PVE healing thread.

Reductio ad absurdum. Next you will complain that why not spec fully in arsenal and people use medkits?

4) With your logic, I should go into the PVE DPS threads and tout giving up a little bit of DPS skills for healing skills because sometimes I can heal and help our OPs group too.

No that is not my logic, that is your twisted argumentation. Sure there are times of DPS being useless, but unlike healing damage doing is different in that there is no "all good" moments until the boss is dead. I guess if you can show me a 1 talent point change in a spec that will give the dps spec a short time burst heal ability comparable to full healers, sure I could make an argument that it might be useful in pve. For example Soa airtime, that's *****y with a solo healer.

Normally I wouldn't care, but I hate people spreading bad info. People come in this thread needing info about PvE healing. I don't want them thinking "Wow I should be taking Muzzle Fluting"

Gee, you hate people spreading bad info, I guess you should check your math facts before posting like in this post.

 

_I_ do want people thinking on the value of muzzle fluting. It is a SINGLE point, it removes no crucial ability and it adds a very impressive ability to you as part of a TEAM, not a mindless "heals only" healbot.

If you want to tout the benefits of muzzle fluting in a PvE/PvP hybrid build, great, go make a thread on it. Seriously.

I don't see the point, this here is a nice PvE healing thread and people should be aware that if they wish to they can sacrifice 1% healing for the choice of being able to dps burst up the wazoo of boss mechanics during (the often accompanying) lull times of healing. Personally, I definitely see that as a really serious minmax thing for _operation_ performance as a whole.

 

edited for quote mismatch

Edited February 15, 2012 by Ewert

[TempestasSilva]

Maybe you should change the thread title to PVE healing in Nightmare and future content? Because saying that 4% damage reduction and muzzle fluting in HM Flashpoints is useless is being elitist.

Muzzle fluting is useless in PvE. As for the 4%, CG simply said alacrity is better.

 

Taking System Calibration is not needed because all the Columni pieces have Alacrity and you also have Critical Reaction up pretty much all the time. But again, if you are talking just Rakata gear the change the thread title to “BH Healing in Nighmare”

If you have all the Columni pieces so you dont need the alacrity, why are you talking about HM Flashpoints? (and are you sure you need critical reaction still?)

 

It might be silly for Nightmare as you need every ounce of healing but this is a generic thread about ALL BH healing and since a very very small percentage of people do NM I think you need to consider different (and equally effective for regular and HM) play styles for the rest of the player base. If not, change your title.

 

If you go re-read CG's guid there is info on variations and swapping skills to accommodate other PVE playstyles. It doesn't include Muzzle Fluting, and it shouldn't. Its worthless for PVE healing.

[Brakner]

Muzzle fluting is useless in PvE. As for the 4%, CG simply said alacrity is better.

 

 

If you have all the Columni pieces so you dont need the alacrity, why are you talking about HM Flashpoints? (and are you sure you need critical reaction still?)

 

 

 

If you go re-read CG's guid there is info on variations and swapping skills to accommodate other PVE playstyles. It doesn't include Muzzle Fluting, and it shouldn't. Its worthless for PVE healing.

 

Sigh, this thread is full of IMHO and elitest "you have to play this way or you aren't the best" WoW mentality. So much for a new game and fresh start ...min/max ftw

Edited February 15, 2012 by Brakner

[DomingoDarkrage]

I'd like to think that you are purposely trolling the pve healing thread by talking about healers dps'ing, but I think you are really serious about it. The thread was made to discuss the variety of healing that the mercenary can perform. The above comments (from the OP) about discussing the dps available for a healing mercenary are justified- this thread wasn't created to discuss damage, but rather healing. If you must keep talking about specific dps talents, rotations, statistics and math, start a new one. People will find that useful

 

The thread isn't about min/maxing. Rather the diversity to the mercenary as a healer. You run good math with the dps for fission missile, death from above, combined with heat. That's good. But this isn't the thread for that information. It was made to discuss healing.

 

We know healing mercs can do damage, especially during supercharge. This thread tells us about healing. Another thread can discuss damage output/heat conservation of a mercenary healing that is performing dps in those circumstances where we do not need to heal (Last round of SOA is valid, we should be damaging during that)

 

+4% damage reduction is worth discussing, as we receive aggro many times, mainly due to kolto shell. Merc healers take a lot of damage- but we can be built to better deal with that damage.

 

Muzzle fluting (i'll add the IMHO, thanks previous poster, you are correct) doesn't quite belong. While it will shorten a fight, it doesn't have a place in terms of healing performed but rather something to do when we do not need to heal (which can happen often).

 

I believe critical reaction and system calibration are useful. +9% alacrity (this is non-diminishing returns unlike alacrity stat) is a lot for only 3 points invested. You don't need 2 points into crit-reaction, it is basically always up if you fire rapid shots.

[Ewert]

Someone said they were too bored to respec - I call it lazy

Boredom induces laziness, yes. The spec I run was made before I even leveled the character, it stays useful, and since I do pvp too I have kept the cure talent even though sadly it is pretty much useless for pve so far. The stun/cc/knockback heat reduction for example is used plenty often enough in endgame pve too (man does BH healer draw healing aggro like a nutcase, things like spawning adds go probably 80+% certainly towards me than anyone other). Casting time knockback resistance gets mileage out of the same reason, plenty of adds go for me.

 

The choice of muzzle fluting is, IMHO, only for the 1% healing (or 2% alacrity but I would drop the 1% healing rather than the 2% alacrity). You want the aim and kolto missile bonuses anyways, so it is a single point swap thing, and you need 31 in bodyguard anyways so it is not coming off there, and thus you will have 2/2 vent if you want it. There really is, IMHO, 1 choice in pve healing regarding MF, and thats 1% healing. And I take it without question.

 

The value of 1% healing vs MF goes into the realm of humble or not-so-humble opinions. There are tons of overhealing going on, in each and every overheal that 1% was wasted. Anytime the healing need slows off, that 1% is useless. Even if the healing is super intense, say Jarg&Sorno with 1 tank 1 healer, while being 1% more the chances of that 1% being actually the deciding factor in a death versus a kill is drastically less than 1%.

 

Meanwhile, that -1% and MF will enable you to join heatfree into dps burst times. Or if your SCG is still up and healing needs passed (no gas buildup from RS, no healing needed), you can cool off some heat while doing PS on the boss. It opens up a whole new world of options.

 

That is worth 1% to me. I would dare to say it has been worth way more than 1% to our guild's raids. And I would assume, with all the joking with that word included, that however hard you may say it has no place in pve healing specs, that be it 8 or 16 man, HM or NM, it giving your raid a nearly full dps rated burster for spesific times would be definitely useful.

[Ewert]

The thread isn't about min/maxing. Rather the diversity to the mercenary as a healer.

Snipped a lot of text that was also pertinent and good, but as I won't be replying a long text please just read Domingo's post above I'll not fully quote it.

 

Funny that, if you compare 4% dmg reduction, you are not talking of pve healing, but it is allowed into the "diversity" of healing merc talk? Sorry no offense, but this combination of supposed diversity of the pve healing aspect talk, which seems to include survival talents, but somehow is not supposed to include dps aspects (especially as MF is a game changer in that respect), it strikes me as ... well ... really really really funky.

 

Also do note there are two posters which I think you mixed up a bit. Anyways, I am fully talking of healing mercs. Just the dps portion of them. Just like survival, it is a secondary part of a healing merc, but it IS part of healing mercenaries!

[TempestasSilva]

Riiiight. And you are the one talking about facts? 22% haste, 78% * 1.5 secs * 9 (8x PS + FM) = 10.53, + 2.34 from DFA < 13secs. How about you check your comments beforehands? Only reason to use DFA and FM in there is because they are higher dps and to avoid the 0 heat wasted regen. So, no, I did not change the argument at all. That is spamming PS during gas.

 

While I understand that you are assuming a 2-set bonus to get a 13 second SCG, including 22% haste explains a lot. That is an amazing amount of haste. No, I did not account for 22% haste, because for PVE, that is right up there with taking Muzzle Fluting in the first place. 22% haste and you are still taking both alacrity increases? Nevermind, this is a whole different kind of bad for PVE and I don't want to start a new debate, so I'll stick to Muzzle fluting.

 

I'm sorry, could you use some facts with your comments? That's pretty incomprehensible on what you are trying to say. I was showing you the number of heat gained _without_ MF. AND since this is a topic about healing, you want to stay HEAT NEUTRAL while you burst, so you have all your CDs still available for your main duty, healing. So no, you can't waste your vent for the dps burst, nor TSO.

The facts are there. If you need something filled in because you don't get it, please ask a specific question. If you want to stay heat neutral without CDs, leave out FM. If you are going to argue that the damage from a couple of FMs is significant in comparison to say SOA's health pool... nevermind I'll be nice.

 

Gee, you hate people spreading bad info, I guess you should check your math facts before posting like in this post.

I see no math facts of mine in error. The only error is including MF for PVE builds. It doesn't give you more damage. For PVE Its situational at best. Those situations are few and far between. Everyone of those situations can be countered without taking a worthless skill.

 

_I_ do want people thinking on the value of muzzle fluting. It is a SINGLE point, it removes no crucial ability and it adds a very impressive ability to you as part of a TEAM, not a mindless "heals only" healbot.

 

I don't see the point, this here is a nice PvE healing thread and people should be aware that if they wish to they can sacrifice 1% healing for the choice of being able to dps burst up the wazoo of boss mechanics during (the often accompanying) lull times of healing. Personally, I definitely see that as a really serious minmax thing for _operation_ performance as a whole

Everyone wants that next gear upgrade. Does upgrading from say the Tionese chest to the Columni one increase your healing 25%? 5%? Not even close. Yet you are arguing that its cool to throw away 1% healing (your main ability) for an unneeded skill. Great logic. Also, you are arguing that MF frees up heat. Well, take all the healing done in a typical boss fight. Now take 1% of it and tell me the heat value used for that 1% then compare the wasted heat there with the heat saved by MF. I would be astounded if the difference is significant.

 

Muzzle Fluting is at best an epeen issue. You feel more powerful, when you could do almost the same extra dps without it and the difference is so minimal when compared to the total health of a boss that its hard to calculate. If you like it, great. But a lot of people come to this thread looking for help with pure PVE healing. Touting the wonders of Muzzle Fluting is doing them a disservice.

 

And here is probably the most important thing. Whether you are in a FP, OPs, HM/NM, whatever... if the group has to rely on the piddly DPS increase from their healer's AMAZING Muzzle Fluting in order to down the Boss, the group is doomed to wipe more often than not.

 

I do want to thank you for one thing. This quote alone has made me literally laugh out loud:

but somehow is not supposed to include dps aspects (especially as MF is a game changer in that respect)

MF is a not just an option, but now its a GAME CHANGER! OMG, I am so glad I wasn't drinking something.

[Ewert]

While I understand that you are assuming a 2-set bonus to get a 13 second SCG, including 22% haste explains a lot. That is an amazing amount of haste. No, I did not account for 22% haste, because for PVE, that is right up there with taking Muzzle Fluting in the first place. 22% haste and you are still taking both alacrity increases? Nevermind, this is a whole different kind of bad for PVE and I don't want to start a new debate, so I'll stick to Muzzle fluting.

You don't understand how haste is the inverse of other stats, as in static bonuses make rating bonuses more effective? Nevermind, next. For the record, main hand and chest columi, rest rakata or equivalent.

The facts are there. If you need something filled in because you don't get it, please ask a specific question. If you want to stay heat neutral without CDs, leave out FM. If you are going to argue that the damage from a couple of FMs is significant in comparison to say SOA's health pool... nevermind I'll be nice.

So, you are regening heat without MF and full burn? Wow. What are you smoking? You can't argue removing FM from the rotation in full burn needs no CD used, since without MF you can't do a full burn heat neutral anyways. Next.

I see no math facts of mine in error. The only error is including MF for PVE builds. It doesn't give you more damage. For PVE Its situational at best. Those situations are few and far between. Everyone of those situations can be countered without taking a worthless skill.

Trying to save face eh, well you said DFA+FM+8 PS is impossible, or rather if pigs fly it is possible. That is an error, plain and simple. NOT counting in 13sec SCG is ridiculous if we are talking of super optimized builds, as nothing short of HM solo healing or NM healing requires that kind of optimization.

Everyone wants that next gear upgrade. Does upgrading from say the Tionese chest to the Columni one increase your healing 25%? 5%? Not even close. Yet you are arguing that its cool to throw away 1% healing (your main ability) for an unneeded skill. Great logic. Also, you are arguing that MF frees up heat. Well, take all the healing done in a typical boss fight. Now take 1% of it and tell me the heat value used for that 1% then compare the wasted heat there with the heat saved by MF. I would be astounded if the difference is significant.

You just don't get it, which is fine by me. Hope that others do. Here's a hint: upgrading is not a choice of getting it or getting something else. I have played healers in MUDs and MMORPGs for nearly two decades now, and let me tell you that overhealing happens in every single game out there. A lot.

Muzzle Fluting is at best an epeen issue. You feel more powerful, when you could do almost the same extra dps without it and the difference is so minimal when compared to the total health of a boss that its hard to calculate. If you like it, great. But a lot of people come to this thread looking for help with pure PVE healing. Touting the wonders of Muzzle Fluting is doing them a disservice.

Getting desperate, lol. I do the extra dps, and am at 0 heat at the end of it. You do the same dps, waste a heat CD to get back to 0 heat. Lets see, who handles the healing coming up better? GG.

And here is probably the most important thing. Whether you are in a FP, OPs, HM/NM, whatever... if the group has to rely on the piddly DPS increase from their healer's AMAZING Muzzle Fluting in order to down the Boss, the group is doomed to wipe more often than not.

You surely are just not getting anything. If the healer is NOT DPSing heatneutrally during lesser healing need times, he is not playing to his best, end of story.

 

Again, I burst with heatneutral or heat negative style in a very very strong burst. There are mechanics where that burst is ALL THERE IS to dps, like Soa. So you tell me, having one full extra dps during Soa vulnerability times is piddly? Sure ...

I do want to thank you for one thing. This quote alone has made me literally laugh out loud:

 

MF is a not just an option, but now its a GAME CHANGER! OMG, I am so glad I wasn't drinking something.

Yep, you fail at playing the merc healer to its fullest. GG.

 

Anyways, I think I'm done talking about this with you in particular as it is not getting anywhere.

[Ewert]

Here's the short version:

 

Muzzle Fluting gives you a burst mechanic which, with good playing, saves you anywhere from 56 up to 88 heat with endgame gear (I guess theoretically 96 is possible, say with alacrity relic + adrenal, but that's not smart ).

 

That's 88 heat. Eighty - eight. Do you wish to play to the utmost and help during boss burst mechanics? Here, have up to 88 heat to do it. Even zero geared that's a Vent heat right there. Did you overheat a bit before the burn phase healing people up? Here, cool off heat while doing max DPS.

 

Oh it's useless for healing? After the burst, would you rather be at 0 heat or overheated insanely?

[DomingoDarkrage]

 

And here is probably the most important thing. Whether you are in a FP, OPs, HM/NM, whatever... if the group has to rely on the piddly DPS increase from their healer's AMAZING Muzzle Fluting in order to down the Boss, the group is doomed to wipe more often than not.

 

Best wraps up the MF debate for those curious about what pve healers have to say about this.

 

And for anyone that reads this for information, just disregard Ewert. His attitude, flaming, and trolling of others is not useful for this threads purpose.

 

In attempt to re-rail this thread, has anyone run numbers with our heals if you take the talents "integrated systems 2" (+1% healing received and +1% healing done for each point, 2 points max) in terms of what it actually accomplishes? I'm interested because I know that a 1% increase in heals from our talents doesn't actually mean 1% extra healing across all skills. There was some site with coefficients to each of our different types of healing, and I'm now wondering if 2% extra healing (while seemingly small) may be something much larger, as I remember my kolto missile hitting for a lot more than it currently does now.

[Brakner]

Best wraps up the MF debate for those curious about what pve healers have to say about this.

 

And for anyone that reads this for information, just disregard Ewert. His attitude, flaming, and trolling of others is not useful for this threads purpose.

 

In attempt to re-rail this thread, has anyone run numbers with our heals if you take the talents "integrated systems 2" (+1% healing received and +1% healing done for each point, 2 points max) in terms of what it actually accomplishes? I'm interested because I know that a 1% increase in heals from our talents doesn't actually mean 1% extra healing across all skills. There was some site with coefficients to each of our different types of healing, and I'm now wondering if 2% extra healing (while seemingly small) may be something much larger, as I remember my kolto missile hitting for a lot more than it currently does now.

 

So if someone has a difference of opinion from you or the OP, then offers the math and circumstances where he proved it useful he is now trolling? Got it.

 

FYI……

 

If you wanted to make yourself look like a close minded elitist *** you are sure doing a great job.