Leggomy Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 no one is asking for exact details just an answer whether an exploit was being used to farm faster or if farmig the loot chests was an exploit. He already answered that. They werent using an exploit what they were doing is considered an exploit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OlBuzzard Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 Can you show me where anyone has been banned for looting containers? Have you gotten a warning? If not then why are you so worked up about it? They are not going to spell out the exact manner in which they catch people because then the crooks would know how to avoid being caught. Just play the game normally you will be fine. I think in fairness tro many who are posting here ... they are concerned about "potentially" being given a warning for farming stuff. That was why I post what I did. IMHO there is a HUGE difference between farming and exploiting. If a player knows that a particular area is rich in a particular product, item for crafting or even credits it is only natural to "make the rounds" .. several times if needed in order to gather mats for production of what ever item is about to be made. Credits: same thing. If a player knows that there are several containers that will drop some serious cash ... guess what ... they ARE going to hit it. However let me restate my earlier quote: One other thing just comes to mind: @ 4K a pop ... if you managed to collect 40K ... noone is probably going to complain. 100K ... you've been there 25 times. Again no one is probably going to say too much ! However at 1,000,000 credits... that's 250 times you've hit that chest. At what point are you no longer using it to help complete the game but now are unquestionably exploiting it ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leggomy Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 I know how they catch people, they are running the server software. It's not very hard to keep track of it at all. Hell if they just set a simple flag so that a number increases. Say the container group id is 10, then when a player loots container 10 it will increase a reference by 1. Once that reaches enough they are flagged for review. How they catch people isn't the issue. The issue is that the first post is intentionally vague on what exactly qualifies as being wrong. The eula for example is very detailed on what exactly qualifies as breaking it (in most cases) The reason for that is pretty self evident, players need to know what they can do. Look at it another way. Say you are driving down the highway, and you get pulled over. The officer starts writing a ticket, and you asked what you did. He replies with "you were going too fast". You ask the speed limit, and he replies with "fast". You again ask "well, how fast is going too fast?". He just says "fast is too fast, now here is your ticket". The people on this thread for the most part are saying "well only speeders want to know how fast is too fast". If that is the case, then why are there even speed limit signs. They are there to let people know "hey if you go over this, you are breaking the law and you might be punished." That's what I'm looking for, a speed limit or something else to define exactly what I can get into trouble for. Now again, I ask is it too much trouble to give me that in a way I can clearly understand? Provide something so that people can say "well, o.k. I know not to go over 55", but what they have done now is say "well too fast is too fast, people are going fast and they are fine but some were going too fast and they got punished" well what the hell is too fast? Sorry this is a video game not real life. Nothing that happens here affects you in real life. So using real life analogies doesnt work. Fact is they arent going to tell you if you loot the chest 999 times its fine but 1000 its not. If thats what you are looking for then you will never get that and may as well quit now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leggomy Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 I think in fairness tro many who are posting here ... they are concerned about "potentially" being given a warning for farming stuff. That was why I post what I did. IMHO there is a HUGE difference between farming and exploiting. If a player knows that a particular area is rich in a particular product, item for crafting or even credits it is only natural to "make the rounds" .. several times if needed in order to gather mats for production of what ever item is about to be made. Credits: same thing. If a player knows that there are several containers that will drop some serious cash ... guess what ... they ARE going to hit it. However let me restate my earlier quote: Why worry about something potentially happening? I mean come on dont you have enough going on you have to worry about stuff that hasnt even happened? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUXs Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 so exploiting in this game means takin a character to an area that is allowed for you to go and farming respawning chests for hours(allowed by every other mmo i have ever played) , not causing them to respawn. no where in any of Bioware's responses to the events said anything about using any exploits to make the chests respawn. if this is not allowed whats to say they allow farming a boss mob with a respawning chest, like the one a guildmate of mine was farming. Yup, you're buddy is exploiting. Farming is farming. Chest, boss, mobs - doesn't matter to me...play the game or don't, farming wasn't a profession choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OlBuzzard Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 Why worry about something potentially happening? I mean come on dont you have enough going on you have to worry about stuff that hasnt even happened? for what ever it is worth .. you and I are on the same page. However, not everyone thinks or reacts the same. Just saying that folks are concerned. Others are probably guilty of some degree of abuse (camping on a particular item excessivly) .. soooo yeah a couple of different thoughts there at the same time ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iluran Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 80 pages of ppl trying to justify what they have been doing wasn't wrong because no one told them it was?This is what society has become? That nothing is your fault because you didnt know or havent been told? What is this kindergarten? Who are you trying to fool here? You dont need to be told every time what's right and what's wrong...You knew damn well that what you had been doing was not ok, period. Typing 80 pages of arguments what not, doesnt make it right. Do you think that Bioware gives a rats *** about this? Do you think they need a reason to ban your ***?If so read the license agreement again instead of scrolling down and clicking accept.It would have graced a lot of people to just say: I know I was wrong, but tried to get away with it but got caught. I am sorry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leggomy Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 for what ever it is worth .. you and I are on the same page. However, not everyone thinks or reacts the same. Just saying that folks are concerned. Others are probably guilty of some degree of abuse (camping on a particular item excessivly) .. soooo yeah a couple of different thoughts there at the same time ! If you cannot tell right from wrong no amount of explaining will do for those people. I have been playing MMOs for as long as they have existed the only time I have ever been warned about anything is language related. I know right from wrong and I dont need Bioware to tell me where the line is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monegames Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 He already answered that. They werent using an exploit what they were doing is considered an exploit. then again i bring up slicing missions pre nerf was worse than this. yet no one using it to get millions of credits were warned nor suspended for bot farming it). i know gettin 8 characters to level 10 and only logging in to start the next mission for each of them is not "normal gameplay" and is "systematic and excessive". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OlBuzzard Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 80 pages of ppl trying to justify what they have been doing wasn't wrong because no one told them it was? This is what society has become? That nothing is your fault because you didnt know or havent been told? What is this kindergarten? Who are you trying to fool here? You dont need to be told every time what's right and what's wrong... You knew damn well that what you had been doing was not ok, period. Typing 80 pages of arguments what not, doesnt make it right. Do you think that Bioware gives a rats *** about this? Do you think they need a reason to ban your ***? If so read the license agreement again instead of scrolling down and clicking accept. It would have graced a lot of people to just say: I know I was wrong, but tried to get away with it but got caught. I am sorry. For those who were obviously guilty .. that would have been a much better way to have come clean with it ! I'm wondering just how many credits were actually accumulated by some of the offenders ? (just out of curriosity) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenetke Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 Sorry this is a video game not real life. Nothing that happens here affects you in real life. So using real life analogies doesnt work. Fact is they arent going to tell you if you loot the chest 999 times its fine but 1000 its not. If thats what you are looking for then you will never get that and may as well quit now. So what you mean is that they can not provide a flat "this is wrong" statement. That means that punishment in this game is not defined by rules, but instead defined by arbitrary ideas based on whoever happens to be around at the time? Yet you see nothing wrong with that? You must though, because you said that if someone plays the game normally they will be fine. You can't say that though, because what some consider normal others would consider abnormal. Since the rules can't be defined, what some players consider normal will fall outside of the guidelines for "normal play" without them ever knowing they are going outside of those lines. So your statement that "play as normal" is wrong. Unless they care to define what is normal play. Again a definition is required. You can defend the idea as much as you want, but you will lose the argument. Your argument is based on an arbitrary idea of what is "normal" and what is not "normal", but "normal" has no set meaning in this case. So the people who would say "well sitting and farming a node all day is normal" would make your point invalid. You have to define it. If you said "well you can farm a node 999 times in a week, and you will be o.k." then it would be fine. You have already stated they will not provide that though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OlBuzzard Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 If you cannot tell right from wrong no amount of explaining will do for those people. I have been playing MMOs for as long as they have existed the only time I have ever been warned about anything is language related. I know right from wrong and I dont need Bioware to tell me where the line is. no argument there. Some just really don't care... right or wrong. If it's there they intend to use it and blaim the development team for not being better programmers ! OY ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leggomy Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 then again i bring up slicing missions pre nerf was worse than this. yet no one using it to get millions of credits were warned nor suspended for bot farming it). i know gettin 8 characters to level 10 and only logging in to start the next mission for each of them is not "normal gameplay" and is "systematic and excessive". The slicing missions paying extra money was in no way even remotely considered an exploit. Sitting in one spot looting the same chest at lvl 20 in a lvl 50 area is hardly similar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bboudreaux Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 Reading comprehension .. Learn it, live it, love it! so many people making comments who didn't actually comprehend what was said, which is so sad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leggomy Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 (edited) So what you mean is that they can not provide a flat "this is wrong" statement. That means that punishment in this game is not defined by rules, but instead defined by arbitrary ideas based on whoever happens to be around at the time?/QUOTE] Yes this is exactly what I mean. They take each on a case by case basis. There is no flat steadfast rule over it. Just use common sense is all I can suggest. Edited January 3, 2012 by Leggomy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bboudreaux Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 then again i bring up slicing missions pre nerf was worse than this. yet no one using it to get millions of credits were warned nor suspended for bot farming it). and you get this information from where? Oh you are the all knowing, sorry I didn't realize this. My bad, don't be mad! /sarcasm off Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OlBuzzard Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 The slicing missions paying extra money was in no way even remotely considered an exploit. Sitting in one spot looting the same chest at lvl 20 in a lvl 50 area is hardly similar. and doing that repeatedly .. camping .. and making how much? like I said before: ..... @ 4K a pop ... if you managed to collect 40K ... noone is probably going to complain. 100K ... you've been there 25 times. Again no one is probably going to say too much ! However at 1,000,000 credits... that's 250 times you've hit that chest. At what point are you no longer using it to help complete the game but now are unquestionably exploiting it ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenetke Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 (edited) If you cannot tell right from wrong no amount of explaining will do for those people. I have been playing MMOs for as long as they have existed the only time I have ever been warned about anything is language related. I know right from wrong and I dont need Bioware to tell me where the line is. Again you use words that have no meaning. The ideas of "right" and "wrong" are based on moral ideals, and have no place in anything resembling an educated argument. Maybe your idea of "right" is actually "wrong" to some people. Hell, some people consider it "right" to kill others in a very brutal fashion. Yet you might consider it "wrong". Which one is actually "right", and which one is actually "wrong"? Anyone should be able to tell you that you can't define it that way. This could be a good discussion ethics, if people would start using words that made sense. Yes this is exactly what I mean. They take each on a case by case basis. There is no flat steadfast rule over it. Just use common sense is all I can suggest. I just wanted to be clear that I'm neither angry, nor hostile in my replies. Some people might take the way I discuss things to mean that. I hope you do not. I'm simply used to a much more strict, and demanding form of discussion. Now as to you reply, that won't work. Players need a clearly defined system. Sure you can say that we agreed to it in the EULA. I would agree that yes, by playing the game we give them the right to terminate/suspend our accounts if they wish. That doesn't mean that we shouldn't call them on it for being arbitrary though. I think it is quite the opposite, and I think it means we should hold them to a much stricter standard. If you say "well, they can be as arbitrary as they like", then you would have to explain why they even bother with an EULA when they could just say "hey we will take your money if we want" At least you admitted that they can't define what they as a company even consider breaking the rules. Edited January 3, 2012 by Tenetke Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monegames Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 no argument there. Some just really don't care... right or wrong. If it's there they intend to use it and blaim the development team for not being better programmers ! OY ! yes i blame the developers for creating something(in this case loot containers that respawn) and me using it in the intended way(looting a loot container in this case) and blaming me for looting them. if it were not intended for a level 16 character to loot them it would be easy to show this intent, level requirements on either the containers or the area. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leggomy Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 Again you use words that have no meaning. The ideas of "right" and "wrong" are based on moral ideals, and have no place in anything resembling an educated argument. Maybe your idea of "right" is actually "wrong" to some people. Hell, some people consider it "right" to kill others in a very brutal fashion. Yet you might consider it "wrong". Which one is actually "right", and which one is actually "wrong"? Anyone should be able to tell you that you can't define it that way. This could be a good discussion ethics, if people would start using words that made sense. There are rules in the game so there is right and wrong. You know its wrong to do something not intended by the developers whether you are able to do it or not is irrelevant. The person who is wrong is the person they warn for doing something wrong. Its pretty cut and dry you just want to play a semantics game which I am not going to play. Fact is if you get a warning you are doing something wrong. Bioware decides what is right and what is wrong. Keep doing what they consider wrong and you will find yourself with a $60-$150 paper weight instead of a game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leggomy Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 yes i blame the developers for creating something(in this case loot containers that respawn) and me using it in the intended way(looting a loot container in this case) and blaming me for looting them. if it were not intended for a level 16 character to loot them it would be easy to show this intent, level requirements on either the containers or the area. Again just because you find something the developers missed doesnt mean you can exploit it until they fix it. You know its not intended for lvl 16 people to be in a lvl 50 area. Its not rocket science folks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monegames Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 Again just because you find something the developers missed doesnt mean you can exploit it until they fix it. You know its not intended for lvl 16 people to be in a lvl 50 area. Its not rocket science folks. slicing was exploited and i did not hear of any suspensions or warnings, you know like this post Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaevyn Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 Which again, is very unfair. This game seems to have more and more restrictions then necessary. I completely disagree, I played MMO's where you practically could not pass wind without being reprimanded in some form. The issue is noobs going to Ilum and camping at containers meaning that higher levels cannot loot them. This is because they have to compete with a bunch of other people who, in all honesty shouldn't really be there in the first place. Sometimes you get people who want to whinge and moan about the issue just to stir up dissent within a community. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leggomy Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 slicing was exploited and i did not hear of any suspensions or warnings, you know like this post How exactly were people exploiting it again? All they did was adjust the rewards because in Bioware's opinion they were too high. How is that exploiting? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenetke Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 There are rules in the game so there is right and wrong. You know its wrong to do something not intended by the developers whether you are able to do it or not is irrelevant. The person who is wrong is the person they warn for doing something wrong. Its pretty cut and dry you just want to play a semantics game which I am not going to play. Fact is if you get a warning you are doing something wrong. Bioware decides what is right and what is wrong. Keep doing what they consider wrong and you will find yourself with a $60-$150 paper weight instead of a game. It is because of those "semantics" you have a right to even post online. Further it is because of those "semantics" you are even using the operating system you are using. Please, show at least a little respect for that. Definitions are very important, even though most people choose to ignore them. Take for example the word rule, do you know the definition of it. If so then you would understand how your idea of "rules in the game so there is right and wrong" is invalid. Take a look at it: 1 a : a prescribed guide for conduct or action b : the laws or regulations prescribed by the founder of a religious order for observance by its members c : an accepted procedure, custom, or habit d (1) : a usually written order or direction made by a court regulating court practice or the action of parties (2) : a legal precept or doctrine e : a regulation or bylaw governing procedure or controlling conduct 2 a (1) : a usually valid generalization (2) : a generally prevailing quality, state, or mode <fair weather was the rule yesterday — New York Times> b : a standard of judgment : criterion c : a regulating principle d : a determinate method for performing a mathematical operation and obtaining a certain result 3 a : the exercise of authority or control : dominion b : a period during which a specified ruler or government exercises control 4 a : a strip of material marked off in units used especially for measuring : ruler 3, tape measure b : a metal strip with a type-high face that prints a linear design; also : a linear design produced by or as if by such a strip Now we can remove number 4 from the list for obvious reasons. I don't think number 3 would apply to your statement. That leaves us with 1, and 2. If we take 1a hen we have a problem. Look again at it: 1 a : a prescribed guide for conduct or action The problem you will have already noticed, because you have already said they will not give a guide for the conduct or action. Now, what if we take 2? The remaining parts of 1 either can not, or should not be applied to this conversation. a (1) : a usually valid generalization (2) : a generally prevailing quality, state, or mode <fair weather was the rule yesterday — New York Times> b : a standard of judgment : criterion c : a regulating principle d : a determinate method for performing a mathematical operation and obtaining a certain result In the case of a(1) it might apply, but then we need to define generalization. That can be done in another post if you wish. 2b could apply, but again they refuse to provide the standard by which judgment is rendered. Merely that it is, without providing any standard for it. (yes, look at up and you will see I am correct). Now 2c could apply except will finish next post Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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