Ability Delay -- Character Responsiveness (This will make or break SW:TOR)

[oflow]

You seem confused. What's being discussed in this thread isn't latency in the classic sense.

 

I can reliably get the game to break on my Operative by hitting Debilitate, Acid Blade, and Backstab in quick succession. The stun fires, Acid Blade (which is off the GCD) gets applied instantly as I run behind the mob mashing my backstab key.

 

The backstab will never go off. The game will repeatedly tell me it's not ready yet until the (five second) stun wears off. The mob turns around when the stun ends, at which point the game will tell me to get behind the mob. The ability never goes on cooldown. The mob never takes damage from Backstab. The Acid Blade buff never fades. The Acid Blade debuff is never applied to the mob.

 

I have the same problem with all off-GCD abilities. Acid Blade, Stim Boost, Adrenaline Probe, Shield Probe, and Evasion all cause problems when I try to use them in quick succession with other abilities.

 

If this were latency, I would expect to see the actions following these abilities to fire eventually. They do not. They don't go on cooldown. They do not cause damage. Even if this were latency, wouldn't you consider it an issue if certain abilities were causing freak lag spikes every time they were used?

 

ps: Who watches their character's animations?

 

 

 

^^^This.

 

 

This is the issue I am having too. Theres something wrong with the way they did the GCD in this game with regards to abilities on and off the GCD. I have leveled a character of each archtype to 20 and they all experience this issue.

 

Using an instant ability after using an ability that is off the GCD often times that instant ability does not fire. I think it has something to do with abilities that are supposed to ignore the GCD confusing the client and resetting the GCD even though it was already in motion.

 

Often times clicking these abilities will use the resources and still reset the gcd but you get nothing. Perfect examples are the one he used above: Debilitate --> Acid Blade (off GCD) ---> Backstab, or using say Force Leap---> Overload Saber (off GCD) ---> Zealous Strike.

 

Exact same thing happens. The first two abilities work but the ability following the ability off the GCD acts like it worked (the button clicks), resets the GCD and the ability does nothing.

 

The problem is there are multiple issues being discussed in this thread and they are overlapping. Some people are having problems because they are spamming and not letting animations finish. Some people are actually experiencing server-client sync errors where abilities take forever to activate (like the mount dismoutn after the cast bar fills or abilities taking forever to go off even after the animation finishes) and some people are having the issue where abilities just do nothing when used after an ability off the gcd.

 

The last issue is the major one in my book, because it IS crippling for many classes namely melee heavy ones and classes that use cover.

Edited January 5, 2012 by oflow

[Rasstavad]

"If you are experiencing a delay, one of three things is happening: your system is crap, your connection is crap"

 

My system would give any nerd a raging *****.

 

My connection to the game is consistantly about 25ms.

[Lawconis]

Sure it is: the 'delayed damage' is a cosmetic effect only. The server has already calculated and applied the damage, and the client has already received it. The client just waits to display it until the attack is seen to 'hit', so that it appears that the attack did the damage, and not just pushing the button.

 

WoW did the same thing with projectile-based attacks. It's just cosmetic trickery, it doesn't actually affect the mechanics.

 

No. I have to wait ....running behind an enemy...for the rock to land. Upheavel wont proc until the rock lands....It is a bummer

 

If what you said was correct, they would die as soon as I hit the button.

 

ALSO, to further prove you wrong: the Particle Acceleration buff can fall off as the rock is mid-flight. The rock does NOT crit. This also happens to the range buff, 30m buff falls off, rock is mid-flight, rock *poofs*

 

Terriblly unfair.

[Darkmagicxk]

agree with OP, will continue bumping until fixed.

[Psytic]

agree with OP, will continue bumping until fixed.

 

http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c262/psytic/animation.jpg

 

seriously guys this is a picture of a gm saying they know and are looking at it love how no one acknowledged it and just continued to *****

[Arkerus]

^^^This.

 

 

This is the issue I am having too. Theres something wrong with the way they did the GCD in this game with regards to abilities on and off the GCD. I have leveled a character of each archtype to 20 and they all experience this issue.

 

Using an instant ability after using an ability that is off the GCD often times that instant ability does not fire. I think it has something to do with abilities that are supposed to ignore the GCD confusing the client and resetting the GCD even though it was already in motion.

 

Often times clicking these abilities will use the resources and still reset the gcd but you get nothing. Perfect examples are the one he used above: Debilitate --> Acid Blade (off GCD) ---> Backstab, or using say Force Leap---> Overload Saber (off GCD) ---> Zealous Strike.

 

Exact same thing happens. The first two abilities work but the ability following the ability off the GCD acts like it worked (the button clicks), resets the GCD and the ability does nothing.

 

The problem is there are multiple issues being discussed in this thread and they are overlapping. Some people are having problems because they are spamming and not letting animations finish. Some people are actually experiencing server-client sync errors where abilities take forever to activate (like the mount dismoutn after the cast bar fills or abilities taking forever to go off even after the animation finishes) and some people are having the issue where abilities just do nothing when used after an ability off the gcd.

 

The last issue is the major one in my book, because it IS crippling for many classes namely melee heavy ones and classes that use cover.

 

Set your allowable buffer queuing to 0.0 seconds. This removes most of the perceived delay. This was the point in the other major thread. If you can live with no queue time then BAM, most of what you THINK is happening is gone.

 

 

Now...are there other issues out there with activations and things? Yes but they are much less pronounced than this "perceived" delay people are seeing.

 

The calculations are happening on the server but the engine is buggy. You can remove a lot of this bugginess by removing your ability to queue moves.

 

I don't like queueing my moves anyway, so I don't care for it.

[Satpolpp]

Thread has turn from a decent argument into a troll arena, and since the devs must've acknowledged it by now, I guess the thread has served its purpose

[Tiron_Raptor]

^^^This.

 

 

This is the issue I am having too. Theres something wrong with the way they did the GCD in this game with regards to abilities on and off the GCD. I have leveled a character of each archtype to 20 and they all experience this issue.

 

Using an instant ability after using an ability that is off the GCD often times that instant ability does not fire. I think it has something to do with abilities that are supposed to ignore the GCD confusing the client and resetting the GCD even though it was already in motion.

 

Often times clicking these abilities will use the resources and still reset the gcd but you get nothing. Perfect examples are the one he used above: Debilitate --> Acid Blade (off GCD) ---> Backstab, or using say Force Leap---> Overload Saber (off GCD) ---> Zealous Strike.

 

Exact same thing happens. The first two abilities work but the ability following the ability off the GCD acts like it worked (the button clicks), resets the GCD and the ability does nothing.

 

The problem is there are multiple issues being discussed in this thread and they are overlapping. Some people are having problems because they are spamming and not letting animations finish. Some people are actually experiencing server-client sync errors where abilities take forever to activate (like the mount dismoutn after the cast bar fills or abilities taking forever to go off even after the animation finishes) and some people are having the issue where abilities just do nothing when used after an ability off the gcd.

 

The last issue is the major one in my book, because it IS crippling for many classes namely melee heavy ones and classes that use cover.

 

Pretty much dead on. Even a bioware poster said it: this thread contains a list of various unrelated issues being lumped together under the banner of 'delay'.

 

The non-GCD ability problem is a serious bug that really needs to be fixed, but doesn't involve any sort of delay.

 

The network latency problems, such as being dismounted when you move immediately after your mount cast bar finishes, aren't necessarily bugs at all, and not entirely so even if they are. It is possible that there's something in the client or server code that exacerbates the latency issues, but they're never going to go away completely.

 

Abilities taking a long time to 'go off', or waiting for an animation to complete before 'going off', is a misinterpretation of a cosmetic feature intended to make the animations look better. One which impairs nothing and in fact has no effect on gameplay whatsoever. I can understand if it 'just bugs' you, but it is NOT 'gamebreaking' Dealbreaking perhaps, but not gamebreaking.

 

Ravage may also have an actual bug that causes it to fail to go off but still play the animation, locking the caster in place and preventing further ability casts if it finishes. Not a 'delay' problem, though. Just broken.

 

And then there's the 'Ability Action Queue Window', which if used, deliberately or accidentally actually DOES cause a miniscule delay before actions go off...and can be worked around by simply...trying to hit abilities when the GCD ends and not using it. Still a bug that needs fixed, though.

[asbalana]

Tiron, drop it. You aren't winning anybody over towards your cause. After following these latest discussions I've come to the conclusion that you simply want to argue and debate.

 

There is something definitely wrong with character responsiveness. Many competitive gamers, including myself, can readily tell that the way this game executes abilities is clunky and slow. For some of you, this is acceptable. For those that hope this game will at some point have a high skillcap (it currently does not), we need as a basis a clean and crisp UI that responds predictably.

 

Hell, I have never lost a match in the "other" game and blamed character responsiveness. It never even entered my mind that a command I issued to my toons wasn't executed exactly the way I intended. However, in SW:ToR it seems like I'm often playing a casino game and I'm more surprised than not when something works properly. Whatever the cause - it needs to be addressed. Hopefully, the vague responses we have received from developers so far acknowledging the issue will result in concrete fixes. We shall see.

 

 

Although I am not a competitive gamer, I find the problems identified as real. I also find that I can't nail down a "bug" to report. The key is that I have seen all of the issues at one time or another but not consistantly day to day. For example, today I did not notice delays at all. I was able to chain casts with no problem and cast an instant that proced without issue. The play was actually pretty smooth. On the other hand, in each fight it was not unusual for many casts to not fire off. Annimations were done, the gcd over and the spell lit and still nothing when I hit the key. I had to wait a second or two and try again and most of the time that worked.

 

I don't know if anyone has mentioned this, but I have actually had spells go off after targeting a mob when I never hit a key.

[Lawconis]

http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c262/psytic/animation.jpg

 

seriously guys this is a picture of a gm saying they know and are looking at it love how no one acknowledged it and just continued to *****

 

 

 

I can't read that, even zoomed in. Besides, I am selfish and want to see a screenshot about Project vs. Shock.

[Owarida]

Sure it is: the 'delayed damage' is a cosmetic effect only. The server has already calculated and applied the damage, and the client has already received it. The client just waits to display it until the attack is seen to 'hit', so that it appears that the attack did the damage, and not just pushing the button.

 

WoW did the same thing with projectile-based attacks. It's just cosmetic trickery, it doesn't actually affect the mechanics.

 

lol

 

5char

[Tiron_Raptor]

Although I am not a competitive gamer, I find the problems identified as real. I also find that I can't nail down a "bug" to report. The key is that I have seen all of the issues at one time or another but not consistantly day to day. For example, today I did not notice delays at all. I was able to chain casts with no problem and cast an instant that proced without issue. The play was actually pretty smooth. On the other hand, in each fight it was not unusual for many casts to not fire off. Annimations were done, the gcd over and the spell lit and still nothing when I hit the key. I had to wait a second or two and try again and most of the time that worked.

 

I don't know if anyone has mentioned this, but I have actually had spells go off after targeting a mob when I never hit a key.

 

That's a new one on me... very odd. Sounds like some kind of lag issue off the top of my head, but that really isn't enough info to make a reliable guess with... if the stuff that wasn't firing was stuff that was supposed to ignore the GCD, there's for-sure a problem with that, that from what I've seen looks like the 'ignore GCD' code function isn't working properly, if at all.

 

As for when the GCD was off and the ability was lit... that I don't have a clue about. Failing to register for some reason obviously, but why? I don't even know where to start with that one.

 

And I never said there weren't real issues that are problems that need addressing: I've stated that most of the things brought up as being 'delay' are no such thing, and one of the things people seem to think is a 'delay' doesn't actually delay anything.

[oflow]

Set your allowable buffer queuing to 0.0 seconds. This removes most of the perceived delay. This was the point in the other major thread. If you can live with no queue time then BAM, most of what you THINK is happening is gone.

 

 

Now...are there other issues out there with activations and things? Yes but they are much less pronounced than this "perceived" delay people are seeing.

 

The calculations are happening on the server but the engine is buggy. You can remove a lot of this bugginess by removing your ability to queue moves.

 

I don't like queueing my moves anyway, so I don't care for it.

 

 

No it doesnt.

 

I have already set the delay to 0.0 and the same thing happens. The only thing I have found that stops it is right-clicking quickly before using the ability that normally misfires, which sucks for multiple reasons. I dont like spamming right click and sometimes I dont want to use the ability thats bound to right click since you cant remap right click from keybind 1. Even if you remove it in the preferences it still fires button 1 regardless.

Edited January 5, 2012 by oflow

[Psytic]

I can't read that, even zoomed in. Besides, I am selfish and want to see a screenshot about Project vs. Shock.

 

http://www.sfu.ca/~devinh/folder/animation.jpg

 

K I stuck it on my university filespace now cause I think photo bucket is resizing it. But any way I asked if they new about ability lag as well as the animation lag between empire and republic mirrors and this is what the GM said so they are aware and still working on balance changes.

Edited January 5, 2012 by Psytic

[Zeetofox]

I have the same problem, when i use a spell that has no GCD and a spell that has a gcd at the same time the non GCD goes off, GCD Triggers and the GCD ability does not go off (generally rupture).

[Arkerus]

No it doesnt.

 

I have already set the delay to 0.0 and the same thing happens. The only thing I have found that stops it is right-clicking quickly before using the ability that normally misfires.

 

Well...thats not consistent with my findings. I've been playing all day and it fixed 90% of what I believe is the issue.

 

So...sorry bud. Better luck with something else.

[Xcore]

That's a new one on me... very odd. Sounds like some kind of lag issue off the top of my head, but that really isn't enough info to make a reliable guess with... if the stuff that wasn't firing was stuff that was supposed to ignore the GCD, there's for-sure a problem with that, that from what I've seen looks like the 'ignore GCD' code function isn't working properly, if at all.

 

As for when the GCD was off and the ability was lit... that I don't have a clue about. Failing to register for some reason obviously, but why? I don't even know where to start with that one.

 

And I never said there weren't real issues that are problems that need addressing: I've stated that most of the things brought up as being 'delay' are no such thing, and one of the things people seem to think is a 'delay' doesn't actually delay anything.

 

Pretty sure with this one trick pony, every single thing is a lag/latency issue... and I mean "everything".

 

Lets not even mention the Smuggler Video in the OP etc... nope, all just a bit of lag

[Flebberflep]

Here's a few things that I've found so far playing. I'm lv 36 so far, and it's been a bit of a bumpy ride.

 

Sith Marauder

 

Any ability that doesn't respect the GCD: Triggers the GCD if it's not currently on cooldown. You can get around this by spamming other abilities right after you use one of these.

 

In addition to this, these abilities will sometimes simply not trigger when pressed. In this case, you have to use an ability that triggers the GCD, then use ONE non-GCD ability (trying to use more in succession, even after the GCD has cooled down doesn't work).

 

Channeled abilities (force choke especially): cast bar, but it's not actually casting. Triggers GCD, but doesn't cast. Casts, but with no cast bar. =|

 

Not only this, but the animation for Ravage lasts slightly longer than the ability, and even after the cast bar is finished, the last hit hasn't landed yet. I've interupted the last hit several times because of this, when I should be able to attack with another ability as soon as the cast bar is finished.

 

Earlier today I was fighting a group of 4 enemies with my companion and I used Ravage. It seems the game got confused by this, and didn't play the animation... this caused my abilities (ALL of them) to lock up, essentially preventing me from fighting at all. This lasted about 30 seconds, then the game presumably found the animation it was looking for, locked my character in place while it played the animation without the ability actually being used, and then finaly let me join back in and save my companion.

 

wat do?

[JDSH]

This is really starting to get under my skin, its as if I playing on a PoS computer with a really bad delay, like my character is drunk.

 

Its even taking away from the enjoyment of the game. I log on and start to play, after 20min im like F this and try to find something else to do.

[Leetbixkid]

nothing to say that hasnt already been said, stripped the words out of my brain. Loving the game deeply, but as soon as i go into a "warzone" its heartbreaking. Also originating in Australia my delay to american servers are amplified, not to mention the responsivness on top of that .

 

"supported" !!

[Xcore]

wat do?

 

Wait until Tiron_Raptor breaks this down into latency, lag, your system and "a bug" for "one animation".

 

 

Or reality, realize that its a multitude of issue culminating into an overall problem with responsiveness of your avatar (the feeling), essentially delay.

 

To get the absolute details on the individual issues and causes... they are laid out all over 4 threads and within videos (some) in the OP.

 

 

To truly understand the multiple layers of this problem, you have to research some of the discussion. It would also be wise to read through: (It discusses the Hero Engine)

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=131110

[Xcore]

nothing to say that hasnt already been said, stripped the words out of my brain. Loving the game deeply, but as soon as i go into a "warzone" its heartbreaking. Also originating in Australia my delay to american servers are amplified, not to mention the responsivness on top of that .

 

"supported" !!

 

General lag and latency absolutely amplifies the feeling. Sluggish combat mechanics/delay + Lag and you're looking at 7+ seconds to get Trinket (Instant/No Trigger GCD), Cover (Instant, No Trigger GCD), Knockback (Instant).

 

The above should be under 2 seconds.... it is impossible to do under 4.

[Arkimor]

Pretty sure with this one trick pony, every single thing is a lag/latency issue... and I mean "everything".

 

Lets not even mention the Smuggler Video in the OP etc... nope, all just a bit of lag

 

Yeah, he's gone off and started his own thread because he thinks he's smarter than everyone here. It's a pitiful thread.

[Arkimor]

Wait until Tiron_Raptor breaks this down into latency, lag, your system and "a bug" for "one animation".

 

 

Or reality, realize that its a multitude of issue culminating into an overall problem with responsiveness of your avatar (the feeling), essentially delay.

 

To get the absolute details on the individual issues and causes... they are laid out all over 4 threads and within videos (some) in the OP.

 

 

To truly understand the multiple layers of this problem, you have to research some of the discussion. It would also be wise to read through: (It discusses the Hero Engine)

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=131110

 

Good post.

[Terko_Koslah]

 

 

Don't know if this has been posted, but here it is.