Ability Delay -- Character Responsiveness (This will make or break SW:TOR)

[Tiron_Raptor]

As I posted here(which nobody saw because it was off the first page in less than 30 seconds): http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=129801 AND earlier in this thread (which apparently no one reads).

 

There is no ability delay. You are experiencing delay because the 'ability action queue window' isn't working right and you're hitting the button early. Stop hitting the button early and there's no delay, or set it to 1.0 and hit it earlier to minimize the delay.

Edited January 4, 2012 by Tiron_Raptor

[Monkertrol]

how does a game go to launch when the basic controls of the character don't work? we had a million beta testers, and I gotta imagine some of us reported this?

[dcinnitt]

Haven't played in almost a week due to this. I log in, cast my jedi sage heal, die inside and then logout. I've been posting and rating since the first thread and will continue to.

 

I hope this issue can be resolved and isn't fundamental to the hero engine (which seems pretty terrible)

[Tiron_Raptor]

how does a game go to launch when the basic controls of the character don't work? we had a million beta testers, and I gotta imagine some of us reported this?

 

The basic controls DO work if you get your timing right.

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=129801

Edited January 4, 2012 by Tiron_Raptor

[Kiphere]

I started MMOs in UO, moved to EQ during it's beta/friends and family, played the early invite beta for EQ2 and release and eventually moved to WoW (no interupt in time, I play MMOs a lot). I played WoW from just after launch until maybe June of 2011.

 

In EQ I was one of the very few who kept an active character on a PVP server as well as maintained a healthy raiding character on a PVE server. In WoW I played exclusively on PVP servers and very actively PVPed from before there was a "PVP System" before the ranks, before honor, before battlegrounds. I continued to actively PVP in BGs and Arenas. I participated in the tournaments and I had at least 2 characters in full PVP gear every season.

 

I tried to switch from WoW to other MMOs as they came out constantly. WoW had great mechanics, good class synergy and ultimately it played very, very smoothly. You tell your character to do something and it did it. Everytime I switched to another MMO I would notice how laggy it felt. I blamed my computer at first so I upgraded it, dropped my graphical settings, even bought new routers and upgraded my internet service assuming that was the issue. It never was, so i started actively testing. Something as simple as hitting the space bar to jump would take up to half a second and it was mostly tied to the animations. You hit the space bar and your client recognizes the input basically instantly. The communication between the client and server are close to seamless in games like this so that wasn't it either. Then I figured it out, it's the animation. In WoW when I jump the guy twitches a little and is airborne, in many other games, SWTOR included theres a crouching animation before you actually jump and that tiny animation is enough to make the delay noticeable. In attacks, especially in SWTOR the animations are obviously linked to the actual attacks to the point that the animation must complete. I've bugged out ebcause I was hit with an interupt mid snipe and my character stuck in the snipe position. I couldn't take cover again, i couldn't get out of the snipe posture. I could use a couple of other attacks that shared the same animation but otherwise I was stuck. Then I died and when I came back to life I was 'stuck' in cover. I could slide around like gumby and shoot all my cover related abilities without actually going into cover. Now, that was kinda neat but also pretty annoying.

 

When I play in PVP I require the ability to maek snap decisions, interupt my own abilities and immediately launch a new one based on what's going on around me. If I'm mid ambush in cover and realize I need to interupt my opponent more than shoot him in the face I need to be able to twitch out of cover and hit my interupt. Moving shouldnt do anything except cancel the current ability but I tap on W to twitch out of cover and immediately start pounding on my interupt and it takes anywhere from half a second to a full 1.5 seconds to activate the interupt and that is rediculous. In WoW that would have been instant. There are abilities off teh GCD supposedly, but that's quite wrong. hit the button and the animation for that ability triggers and you've got a half second to a full GCD before you can utilize your next ability. as an example... I am talented so if I hit cover pulse my next snipe is instant, I have an off GCD ability that makes my next snipe a crit. I should be able to hit cover pulse which triggers a 1.5sec cooldown 1.5seconds later hit my auto crit ability and immediately after that hit snipe for an instant snipe. The entire exchange should take under 2 seconds. I've tried it while soloing and I cann't get it to happen in less than 3-3.5 seconds. Something is broken there. The issues are everywhere and they're mostly linked to animations.

 

I see the Dev response and I appreciate that you're working towards fixing it but you need to do something 'soon' even a partial fix would be a good sign for the community. I think a big issue currently is the fact that abilities can't 'clip' animations and it actually holds new abilities from firing. I understand how hard you guys worked on your animations but you've also put a stat in place that allows for faster cast times which means very early in the gameyour abilities are going to 'happen' faster than the in the can animations. Either link the animations to the abilities so strictly that they 'speed up' to account fo rfaster cast times or unlink them entirely so you can clip them and move on. Make player input the dominant factor in abilties. If I hit a button that should be available I don't want to have to wait for the game to decide it's ready for me. If I'm off GCD I should be able to hit an instant and it be... instant. If My cast time is running and I clip it by moving it should INSTANTLY stop the animation, spell cast, and automatically allow me to cast something next. And remove animations from non GCD spells if they're going to be an issue, they're almost exclusively on demand buffs, we don't need a shiney little animation to tell us it went off, we just need it to work and we need it to work RIGHT THEN because that's why it's off the GCD, so it can be thrown in immediately and on demand.

 

I like this game, I love a lot about it, but I have to be able to play it and if it keeps not listening to me when I try to do that I wont continue paying for frustration after I play through the solo content.

[asbalana]

As I posted here(which nobody saw because it was off the first page in less than 30 seconds): http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=129801 AND earlier in this thread (which apparently no one reads).

 

There is no ability delay. You are experiencing delay because the 'ability action queue window' isn't working right and you're hitting the button early. Stop hitting the button early and there's no delay, or set it to 1.0 and hit it earlier to minimize the delay.

 

I read your referenced thread and the post above and have to disagree. This may be part of the overall "number" of interrelated issues, but it is not the whole story.

 

I have tested a lot of things during play. One was waiting until the gcd was over, counting to two and then hitting a button. I have still had misfires and annimation delays.

 

As far as your comment in the other thread about feeling the gcd timing. I am not a good player at all and have no problem doing that in WOW. I hardly ever, if at all, look at my action bars and have no problem linking and firing off casts. I have played five classes to 85 and they are a mix of melee and casters so it is not character / fighting dependent. It is just the case that you can internalize the timings if they operate smoothly and as they should.

[Nikita_Kilemal]

The basic controls DO work if you get your timing right.

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=129801

 

No sorry, if you don't see the ability delay you are either slow or totally clueless as to what people are explaining. and no oh don't mash buttons or get your timing right lines from the BDF is going to change this fact.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zPQSvpfTaho&feature=plcp&context=C3ac0d9bUDOEgsToPDskIueQtIRmnTZX-jzIDR07ra

 

Watch that vid, specifically 0:07 to 0:09 I hit rocket blast one time, one press of the button as unload finishes its channel, and it takes TWO SECONDS from activation to even starting the animation for firing it. Much less calculating damage.

 

Watch 0:15 to 0:17 Again the delay on rocket blast is so long to fire that by the time it hits explosive dart is already going off!

 

Watch the end, unloads channel is half finished before it even decides to fire.

 

But there's no ability delay right? I should just stop mashing and adapt?

 

Do us all a favor, just get out of the thread.

[Krippi]

Hey.

Just wanted to put my 2 cents too (coming from a very competitive and serious WoW player - 24th rank in europe in 3v3, season 3)

Because of that exact problem I actually had to quit the game and refuse to play until this is resolved.

Really loved many aspects of the game, and hope this is fixed as the game has the potential, but 1-2 seconds delay cannot be taken serious and atm there is no telling of any serious pvp, not sure about pve.

The thing that bugs me the most is that they missed this for the entire 2 (or however many) years of beta, hence makes me fail to believe they will ever fix this.

[Froth]

No sorry, if you don't see the ability delay you are either slow or totally clueless as to what people are explaining. and no oh don't mash buttons or get your timing right lines from the BDF is going to change this fact.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zPQSvpfTaho&feature=plcp&context=C3ac0d9bUDOEgsToPDskIueQtIRmnTZX-jzIDR07ra

 

Watch that vid, specifically 0:07 to 0:09 I hit rocket blast one time, one press of the button as unload finishes its channel, and it takes TWO SECONDS from activation to even starting the animation for firing it. Much less calculating damage.

 

Watch 0:15 to 0:17 Again the delay on rocket blast is so long to fire that by the time it hits explosive dart is already going off!

 

Watch the end, unloads channel is half finished before it even decides to fire.

 

But there's no ability delay right? I should just stop mashing and adapt?

 

Do us all a favor, just get out of the thread.

 

Undeniable. As of now this game has missed the mark.

[Tavna]

I and my wife both played WoW and loved raiding. We both noticed the lack of character responsiveness right away in SWTOR. It isn't a small difference either. It is a MAJOR issue.

 

I played a tank in WoW and am playing one in SW as well. It is immensely frustrating when taunts take seconds to have any effect or when a stun lasts 2 seconds more than it should have because my ability to break the stun failed to go off in a timely manner.

 

There are two things that will drive me from SWTOR.

 

1) Character Responsiveness isn't fixed.

 

2) Failure to include challenging end game content (whether it is raiding, pvp, crafting, etc).

 

That isn't a threat. I love SWTOR. The setting and engrossing nature of the quests is VERY appealing to me. I want the game to succeed. However, NOTHING ruins an otherwise great experience faster than frustration over lack of control or things to do.

[riceshock]

100% accurate.

I will not subscribe until this is resolved.

[limmm]

Character responsiveness issues are highly noticeable in warzones; adding on to the horrid fps issues http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=114363

 

it seriously feels like I'm playing a gimp

[Light_Valkyrie]

No sorry, if you don't see the ability delay you are either slow or totally clueless as to what people are explaining. and no oh don't mash buttons or get your timing right lines from the BDF is going to change this fact.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zPQSvpfTaho&feature=plcp&context=C3ac0d9bUDOEgsToPDskIueQtIRmnTZX-jzIDR07ra

 

Watch that vid, specifically 0:07 to 0:09 I hit rocket blast one time, one press of the button as unload finishes its channel, and it takes TWO SECONDS from activation to even starting the animation for firing it. Much less calculating damage.

 

Watch 0:15 to 0:17 Again the delay on rocket blast is so long to fire that by the time it hits explosive dart is already going off!

 

Watch the end, unloads channel is half finished before it even decides to fire.

 

But there's no ability delay right? I should just stop mashing and adapt?

 

Do us all a favor, just get out of the thread.

 

 

Quality post.

[Psychomachia]

I will not continue my subscription until this issue is remedied.

[Xcore]

Just wanted to chime in again, I've been reading and following. I believe I'm mostly over my post-traumatic stress syndrome and able to contribute once more.

 

Keep up the pressure on this issue, I am surprised by the large following this has (in the thousands) as well as newcomers (Welcome) still daily in this thread even in it's 4th version!

[Xcore]

No sorry, if you don't see the ability delay you are either slow or totally clueless as to what people are explaining. and no oh don't mash buttons or get your timing right lines from the BDF is going to change this fact.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zPQSvpfTaho&feature=plcp&context=C3ac0d9bUDOEgsToPDskIueQtIRmnTZX-jzIDR07ra

 

Watch that vid, specifically 0:07 to 0:09 I hit rocket blast one time, one press of the button as unload finishes its channel, and it takes TWO SECONDS from activation to even starting the animation for firing it. Much less calculating damage.

 

Watch 0:15 to 0:17 Again the delay on rocket blast is so long to fire that by the time it hits explosive dart is already going off!

 

Watch the end, unloads channel is half finished before it even decides to fire.

 

But there's no ability delay right? I should just stop mashing and adapt?

 

Do us all a favor, just get out of the thread.

 

Adding your video to OP...

 

 

Thank You

[Xcore]

As I posted here(which nobody saw because it was off the first page in less than 30 seconds): http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=129801 AND earlier in this thread (which apparently no one reads).

 

There is no ability delay. You are experiencing delay because the 'ability action queue window' isn't working right and you're hitting the button early. Stop hitting the button early and there's no delay, or set it to 1.0 and hit it earlier to minimize the delay.

 

I don't believe you have a firm enough grasp on the issue to make the claims and statements that you do in your thread.

 

I urge you to re-evaluate your position.

[Xcore]

Hey.

Just wanted to put my 2 cents too (coming from a very competitive and serious WoW player - 24th rank in europe in 3v3, season 3)

Because of that exact problem I actually had to quit the game and refuse to play until this is resolved.

Really loved many aspects of the game, and hope this is fixed as the game has the potential, but 1-2 seconds delay cannot be taken serious and atm there is no telling of any serious pvp, not sure about pve.

The thing that bugs me the most is that they missed this for the entire 2 (or however many) years of beta, hence makes me fail to believe they will ever fix this.

 

I would like to add your post as well to the OP. High level play is always very valuable. However, do you have a link to your Arena Accomplishments or anything to prove your Ranked Claim etc.?

 

 

Tyvm

[zootzoot]

I don't believe you have a firm enough grasp on the issue to make the claims and statements that you do in your thread.

 

I urge you to re-evaluate your position.

 

I set my threshold to zero and it seems to have fixed many of my issues.

[Justwalkaway]

I'm genuinely surprised a bug like this made it into release. Every time this happens it feels sooo bad. It completely ruins combat. I've had it happen on so many different abilities and every time you just scratch your head and wonder in frustration. It feels like something tied to the very basics of the code base.

 

I'm also genuinely surprised how many people are adamant about there not being an issue at all.

 

Abilities do not fire sometimes when they are supposed to. That's just fact. Everything beyond that statement is semantics in trying to figure out the "why".

 

I also think that any advice trying to tell people to "wait for animations" or "wait for the GCD" ...any waiting in general is defense to the current system instead of trying to acknowledge the issue and move on.

 

Haste / Alacrity is based on have 100% downtime on abilities or it is irrelevant. As any experienced caster in end game would tell you, your bloodlust / icy veins / haste trinket means close to nothing if you are capping your cast speed by manually preventing yourself from casting back to back to back.

 

It's really tough to visualize playing this game in a real difficult setting IE: Muru the Guild Killer or organized PvP; you'd throw your performance to the RNG Bug gods.

 

I really hope this issue is fixed. I'm enjoying the game a lot, but once you get to the highest levels of play it would be too frustrating to play. It's like playing back when Naxx first came out and servers were unstable. If you had a great run at a boss but the server locked up you'd slit your wrist in frustration.

 

Without any sort of emotion in my tone, I won't continue subscribing when I get to points of the game when this makes or breaks my experience.

 

Please fix.

[Xcore]

I set my threshold to zero and it seems to have fixed many of my issues.

 

It may be possible that it "masks" the initial ability delay but it does not at all solve the discussed issue. This claim has been extinguished since Thread 1 (within the first 20-50 pages).

 

Please remember that this is a broad scope problem with the combat design and mechanics. Animation/Ability execution is just as much part of it (or more) than initial ability firing (through queue etc.).

 

 

Again, I do believe it may be possible that 0.0 or 1.0 or any other tweaks mask the overall issue slightly (for the individual) but remember that this does not at all resolve anything.

 

- Please check out the video examples in the OP and skim through some of the thread(s).

[Parrothead]

Rated and /signed or whatever. This is going to end any chance this game has if it is not fixed. This is not doomsaying. This is a fact. I've been in many warfronts already and been CC'd quite often since I play a healer. The responsiveness delay on Tenacity literally costs us games sometimes because that split second delay is literally life or death in pvp. Edited January 4, 2012 by Parrothead

[DredWes]

It's really tough to visualize playing this game in a real difficult setting IE: Muru the Guild Killer or organized PvP; you'd throw your performance to the RNG Bug gods.

 

The responsiveness delay on Tenacity literally costs us games sometimes because that split second delay is literally life or death in pvp.

 

-QsFT

 

I honestly thought this issue was my class. Thought it was me smashing buttons. I thought it was me, it isn't. After reading the thread and watching the videos I can see this isn't a "one of" problem, lag or poor play. I often don't feel in control of my toon and this greatly detracts from my SWTOR experience.

 

To that end I changed my subscription and will cancel if this isn't very seriously and publicly addressed in the near future.

 

It is broken and must be fixed and until it is I will not give them any more of my hard earned money.

Edited January 4, 2012 by DredWes

[EvolutionStudios]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zPQSvpfTaho&feature=plcp&context=C3ac0d9bUDOEgsToPDskIueQtIRmnTZX-jzIDR07ra

 

Watch that vid, specifically 0:07 to 0:09 I hit rocket blast one time, one press of the button as unload finishes its channel, and it takes TWO SECONDS from activation to even starting the animation for firing it. Much less calculating damage.

 

Watch 0:15 to 0:17 Again the delay on rocket blast is so long to fire that by the time it hits explosive dart is already going off!

 

Watch the end, unloads channel is half finished before it even decides to fire.

 

But there's no ability delay right? I should just stop mashing and adapt?

 

Do us all a favor, just get out of the thread.

 

This is /thread. The developers need to see this video because it captures the problem perfectly.

 

This is an MMO, which means at even the basic level will require group coordination and cooperation. Only hardcore star wars fans will pay a subscription fee for single player content... that's just the case.

 

This ability lag cripples the group experience by lowering your throughput and limiting your reaction time. As a Healer and tank this is even more frustrating as the lag literally can kill my group with either slower heals or the inability to hold threat in certain situations.

 

I've played WoW... Rift... and even Dungeons and Dragons On-line for a bit. They ALL have better group experience than this game. Dungeons and Dragons has less ability lag as a free-2-play MMO than one I bought and then paid a subscription fee to play. You can't tell me that a paid service has worse developers than one that is free-2-play. I won't believe it.

 

That said, BioWare has never made an MMO before. We need to be patient while they "investigate" this issue because the game just friggin launched. What BioWare needs to understand is that a significant portion of the community thinks this is a problem and whether or not the devs listen to us WILL determine the future of this game.

[Taurusaud]

Bugs like this are completely inexcusable, and the fact that this bug even exists outside of beta says alot about who's hands are in control of development. The larger problem is the quick-fix mentality of BioWare (and most MMO financiers in general) - they favor short-term results over long-term results. The suits in charge would rather rush an unfinished product out the door and have everybody buy it, get upset at all the bugs and leave, than take a few more months to further develop and iterate, thus ending up with a much better product that would retain players long-term.

 

This short-sightedness and passionless development is prevalent throughout the industry. Most developer positions are outsourced to India where the people couldn't care less about Star Wars but like the suits in charge they just care about getting paid. As a result we get hollow games with a nice shell but no depth, unfinished development and architectural bugs. The unresponsiveness of the UI? A architectural bug due to developer inexperience and/or incompetence. Bugs like these are very time-consuming to fix since you need to rewrite all the code that relies on it and hope you don't create new bugs while doing so. Do you think this will actually get done, or will BW opt for the quick fix as they already have with so many other elements of this game. Especially seeing as how this bug has been known about for nearly 2 years... any actual gamer knows not fixing this is suicide.