Lol, this game is a team-game, not WoW or sth.... In GW, there were tons of freezes, blinds, roots, heavy dot's and stuff that reduced your movement or DMG-output to nearly nothing and very few classes were actually able to remove them, but it's no Problem, because you had ppl on YOUR TEAM, removing those conditions FROM YOU. All the three healing-classes have CC/Stun/Condition-removers and if th spec on heal, they even get better. It has a very low CD and cost and if nobody uses them, maybe play with ppl that actually know the game next time. I can assure you, that if I'm playing with my Sage, no1 on my team will be thinking: "roots, CC and stuns are soooo IMBA", because I remove that stuff from them ASAP. You even get extremely easy to spot animations with whirlwinds and lightning and stuff..... There is absolutely nothing wrong with CC in this game, but there is a huge Problem with ppl not knowing how to play a team-game and then blurt out stuff about imbalance that they don't have any clue about.

I care actually.... ^^' Because what he says is true on many servers andI think we can't actually open enough Threads and write enough whiney posts to let BW know how severe the Problem actully is. We've lost about 50% of the like 30 ppl that really actively played WZ's on our side in the last month. We now can only play PvP during a few hours of the day if we want to have full teams and we almost never play against our own faction, because there is almost at no time more than 1 WZ open for us reps. The Imps have it slightly better with maybe 2-3 times the players that PvP frequently, but it's getting worse for them as well. A few ppl started playing on another server, but most of them left completely, going back to WoW or w8 fpr GW2. This game has so much potential, especially in PvP, but if we don't get transfers, mergers or globl PvP very very soon, nothing will be able to safe this game from certain doom. If we don't get anything in max. one month, I predict that we won't be able to do PvP on our server AT ALL anymore and the imps will have to play with and against themselves...

Nope, If you'd take out expertise completely and even revert all the buffs to DPS and all the nerfs to Healing back to what it was, a well organised team of 4-6 DD's would still be able to spike down a healer in under 1 second, with almost no chance of any healing getting through in that short amount of time, even if you had 3 Healers in the team (which wil probably be the absolute maximum a top-team will play) If you look at upcoming 8-player-premades and global ranked WZ's, it would be silly to think anyone would play a sage-healer with no burstheal whatsoever and even the ones of the scoundrel and Comm won't be enough against most spiked DMG, that can dish out well over 25k in the duration where a healer (just because of global cooldown) can maybe get out one instant-heal (sage has none besides bubble and you don't need to be a healer to use the bubble, comm has 1 with 21 sec recast which is way too long and scoundrel is the only one who has a rather reliable one, that heals for 2-3k or sth. still moer than enough DMG to kill even the tankiest char in the game with 5+ DD's).

PvP is being played in 8-man teams and soon enough, we'll have premades, global ranked WZ's etc. do you really think the game should then be balanced around 1v1 and do you really think if every class was able to beat every class in a 1v1, the game would be balanced in 8v8 as well? The beauty of balancing a game based on teams of 8 is that you can have certain imbalances, if the team can make up for this imbalances by utilizing their classes in the proper way. If BW starts balancing the game based on 1v1's, it would be a horrible mistake.

5% to the two best combos for 1-2-3-spikes, which are already heavily OP because of the lack of burstheal, which makes 10% more damage from the Slinger in a spike every 5-8 seconds and they already made well over 5k with their combos. It's not the world, but it's definitely a buff to an already OP class in a well-organized spike. If we had 4 Gunslingers on our guild, I'd list with 2 teams, one being 4 of them and **** everything if we get in the same WZ.... Really, do you guys have no Idea how to play together or how a 8-man-team is supposed to win a game and deal effective DMG? Just look at how much heal a Healer can dish out in the same time 4 Sniper deal up to 25k DMG. Even a team with 4 Healers couldn't heal that DMG away in time....

I'm calling it right now, first FOTM-Build when ranked WZ's hit the ground with at least 5 Teams in the Top-20 of the World ranking playing it: 4 Sniper 2-3 Tanks (1 sin 1+ jugg) 2 Healers (1 merc 1 ops) 1-2 Support (1+ sorc) 1-2-3-spiking their way to victory. basically no way of countering the spikes cuz you can't rupt them, extremely high DPS which is almost impossible to heal up, enough utility with 2 supporters and tanks to be effective in any situation and on any map. The 2nd best Build will probably countain 3 Tanks and 1 Offtank with taunts just to counter this build. ^^' This would even beat a team of 4 Maras and rest support/heal pretty handily

Don't play PuGs then.... Theres no way you can make healers balanced for 8v8 and make every WZ in every random-PuG 100% balanced, exciting and enjoyable. There will either be no healers or nearly none, because they nerf it into the ground, or you'll have to live with the fact that, if you don't go in with 7 other players, there might be more or less than the perfect amount of healers in your team. Theres no way around that and this Problem exists in tons of other games as well (basically every MOBA, were everyone wants to pick carrys and noone support). I'd rather get decent healers into the game and always list as a team than have UP healing, ridiculous TTK and IMBA DD's....

I really have no Idea why ppl think they can read the state of balance from a DPS-sheet... You really think single-target burst DPS is worth the same as slow DoT's or AoE in a game where: 1) ppl are too stupid to remove DoT's (but in high-level play this won't keep happening). 2) Healing up pressure is so much easier than healing up 1-2-3-spikes (which are almost impossible to heal and the Snipers are the best class for that). You really think not being interruptable isn't a huge benefit, when already Comms are doing half the damage they did a month or so ago, because every second gravround of them gets interrupted? Again, it's ppl that don't know how to play that complain about snipers being too weak, when everyone you ask that can play and knows the possibilities of an uninterruptable single-target burst-machine in a 1-2-3-spike. Really: get together 3 friends so you have 4 Snipers in your team and just call targets every 5-8 seconds and see what players can do to counter it: 20-25k DMG in under 1 second and uninterrubtable with only 4 DD's - you basically have Stuns/Interrupts every 60 seconds to counter the spikes and nothing else, because no heal is fast enough and sniffing out the spike and guarding the right target is very very hard, but basically the only thing that could hold off spikes like that.

You could easily double the CD on those two and they'd still be very viable and probably the best CD's in the game. ^^'

CALLED IT! When I saw the posts about Snipers/Gunslingers being too weak in WZ's I immediately sensed this buff coming, maybe I should check my mediclorians or sth.... I didn't comment in that Thread though, because I knew most ppl won't understand exactly why the Gunslinger is actually extremely powerful and was in no need of a buff. The buff isn't huge, but again the balance shifts in a direction that is simply wrong. Why the Gunslinger is the most powerful Ranged-DD in the game: - 1-2-3- Spikes will be the most effective way of dealing DMG once ranked WZ's are up, if they don't change the lack of burstheal of the Healer-Classes: The amount of DMG you can burst out in under 1 to maybe 1.5. seconds is huge compared to the amount of heal in that time, so spiking DMG will be the way to go. With the Gunslingers already having extremely high single-target burst with two very strong combos Amied shot/Charged burst + Quickshot, Quickdraw or Speedshot with well over 5k hitting the target in a matter of maybe 0.5 seconds, they will only get stronger in that department. - Range: The Gunslingers have the highest range in the game and are therefore able to spike, while staying way in the backline, which helps them not get killed. - Defensive CD's: Yes, they may not be as OP as the ones of the Mara, but they are still pretty decent. With Hunker Down (+Holed Up), Dodge, Defense Screen and Scarmbling Field used correctly, the Gunslinger can stay as effective as possible in many situations. - Hold Position: That's why I think Gunslingers are heavily OP at the moment: There is no way to interrupt them, which is one of the major ways to counter spikes and with good interrupting, you can take out a huge amount of DMG of other ranged DD's, like the Commando, Sage etc. - XS Freighter Flyby: This skill gives you almost 10 seconds where your opponent will not be able to cap/recap any points with an incredibly low cooldown I might add. Yes, it's not a very mobile class, but not every class has to be mobile. The Damage the Gunslinger is able to spike onto single targets with two very powerful rotations every 15 seconds (so one spike every 7.5 seconds) and the fact you cannot interrupt him, make him one of the best pure Ranged DD's for PvP.

We won't get 8-man ques before ranked WZ, cuz the outrage of the lowies that would have to play against 8-man premades would be too big, that's why BW will not give you what you want before ranked WZ's. It's really annoying I know, but it's also kinda understandable.

Burstheal actually got better in 1,.2., with benevolence now having a higher chance to crit, but it's still not comparable to the amount of DMG a DD spits out in under a second. Besides from stating the obvious lacks in burstheals, here's my tip: Use Trance to burstheal; it is by far the most effectiv heal in general and for burst as well. If a sage in your team has skilled the stunbubble, which is pretty common for a lot of DD/Support-Builds, you won't need the bubble - so just sniff out the spike before it happens, lightly prot the target with Reju and try to heal the spike with Trance, which does pretty well if it crits more after reju - I've made the best experiences with that against spikes. Besides that, the Sage has the worst burst and it's more or less a joke compared to the burst-capabilities of DD's, cuz the bubble of the sage scales disproportionate to the amount of sages in a game in it would be the best burstheal/prot possible. The Scoundrel has pretty decent burstheal and I see the rule of the sage in PvP now more in some sort of supporting way, but this causes some problems, because atm. you need at least 1 scoundrel for running a good pvp-team, if you wanna have decent heal against the heavy DD's and the very low TTK of basically everything.

Yes, there are DPS-Chars that deal significantly more DMG than the Shadow and even deal mostly single-target burst DMG, but as I've stated in my post before: The Shadow deals less DMG, but it's DMG is the best kind, so you can't directly compare it to every DD there is. For example Sages that deal more Dot and AoE-DMG, which can easily be healed compared to burst-DMG. But mostly, the Fulltank-Shadow is fine in terms of DMG. The reason why I propose a nerf to harnessed shadows and slow time is als because you get the stacks for harnessed shadows and therefore your selfheal very quickly, which makes the FullTank Shadow very effective in certain situations. My spec uses neither of the talents, because my spec isn't designed to do well in 1v1 Situations and only works well with a good team, whereas the Shadow is pretty effective in 1v1 situations or in a simple PuG-Zergfest. But if you compare Low Slash to the kick out of stealth, you totally underestimate Low Slash. A 4 Second stun on a healer that isn't attacked by stupid teammates will help get you a kill in so many situations, 5 second lower cooldown and 2 second longer stun is 4/15, so roughly 30% of the time where you can deny heal or DPS, whereas with Kick, you only get 10%, thats a pretty big difference in my book. You also get lower CD's on your best Mana-management (blackout out of Stealth) and on other CD's, you get better slows, so you can both slow a kiting caster and also support your team by constantly slowing a Melee-Char of the opposing team. Of course you sacrifice a lot of nice skills on the tank-tree, but it's definitely worth it for Low Slash and all the other utilities. It's basically designed to be the most annoying utility-bomber you can think of in a BG that is also able to guard/taunt and be pretty self-sustained with removing slows etc and having a high survivability.

What about the CRAAAAZY notion that killing and/or interrupting/CCing/1-2-3-spiking healers before 1.2. required skill and teamplay? There are also a few things wrong with healing, that have absolutely nothing to do with skill: - While DD's can dish out 5K+ instantly, healers (besides Ops) have no halfway decent insta-burstheals that are somewhat reliable against 1-2-3-spikes - The Bubble of the Sage scales disproportionately to the number of sages in a game, no other skill functions this way. This leads to the fact, that probably the best skill of the sage-healer and the only real way of dealing with spiked-DMG gets more and more useless if you have more than 1 Sage-Healer for every additional Sage in the team. And with DD-Sages often having the Stunbubble, you actually don't even need the bubble of the healer, leaving your team better off with 1-2 DPS/Support-Sages and no Fullheal-Sages at all. - TTK is way too low now - With such low respawn-timers, healing is often not necessary, cuz you actually don't need a long survivability, but just kill stuff fast, paired with the very low effectivity of most healers ni the current state of the game, healing is atm not really feasible. - Interrupting Healers is easily possible, while the biggest DD's cannot be interrupted or use mostly instants.

Jepp, I sincerely think BW doesn't know how important it is for them to bring either server-mergers, free char-transfers or global PvP into this game. On our server, it's maybe a matter of weeks until we have nearly no1 playing PvP, at least on the rep-side... I think that with global ranked warzones and some decent balance-changes and a few additional Maps, this game could actually be one of the greatest PvP-oriented MMO's, but I also think, that it may be too late until then.

I can assure BW that our Server will be dead within 2 weeks if we don't get cross-server PvP, because: - Most PvP-active reps have already left - There are about 3 times the amount of imps actively playing PvP - In the morning, we can't get any WZ's, at maybe 1 or 2 PM until 5, we constantly get 6 reps v 8 imps, then maybe 4-5 hours of actually full groups. - Imps have already totally outgeared us in 1.2. - there are maybe 20 pvp-active reps left, if 5 more of us leave, it's gonna be almost impossible to find any WZ for reps.

Wooooooow, r u serious? Your approach presupposes that healing actually has the same efficiency as DPS, but while DPS get 8k AoE insta-Crits or 4-5k instants, healers not even get half the output in heal as DPS get in DMG. Healing in this game is atm heavily UP, everyone that doesn't see that just doesn't want to see it.

One Healer should be able to outheal 2 DPS if you don't get stunned or interrupted. You should be able to at least have 5k Instants (with certain drawbacks to not make them spammable like the upperhand-mechanic and for 2 DPS to be able to kill 1 Healer with good interrupts and stuns). If 1 healer cannot out-heal 2 DD's, you might as well remove healing from the game, because of several reasons: - Healing doesn't get you through doors or caps/recaps you points - With such short respawn-timers, healing isn't that important anyways - with 8-man premades, nobody will play more than 3 healers, most will play 2, if 2 healers cannot heal against 4 DD's if the opponent will have 6 (with tanks being pretty good DD's too) there is no need for healers at all. Healers need to be hard to kill and important to guard/support, but if you keep most healing with casttimes (so 1 good instant-heal with 5k heal on every healer is easily possible, if you give them heavy drawbacks like having to sac life, costing a lot of mana, only be usable on targets below 30% health or the need for upperhand etc.) interrupting, stunning and timing spiked Damage well will always be able to give you a kill. Find a way to give fullhealers better heal without overpowering hybrids (having the strong insta-heals and the big healbuffs for PvP on T4+) and all will be fine.

Don't compare the slight imbalance of one class with the heavy imbalance of another. Besides, the Shadow actually deals very decent DMG, cuz most of his DMG is very fast burst-DMG on a single-target. I cannot deal 8k-AoE-crits, but I deal 3-4k single-target crits with lower CD, which makes the sustained DMG of the Shadow a bit weaker, cuz he has to reg mana a bit after every combo, but being able to throw 5-8k onto a target within seconds every 5 or so seconds is much better than having a big AoE-crit every 15 seconds.... Learn that DMG doesn't equal DMG in this game. Single-target-burst>AoE>DoT, because it's much harder for healers to heal up fast single-target DMG than it is for them to heal pressure. The Shadow doesn't deal much DMG, but the best kind of DMG for WZ's. Also, the Fulltank-assa is actually a joke in PvP against the Hybrid Low-Slash Tankassin, that's able to take out multiple casters while being able to guard/taunt, have high survivability and cannot be kited/slowed/CC very well. I don't do much DMG at all with this spec, but I can assure you that every healer on my server hates it when they see me walk towards them with that spec, cuz they know they will not be able to cast anything for 2/3 of their time alive and I will be able to spike down low targets while also keeping them from healing. It's not a very good build for 1v1's, but for 2v2 up to 8v8, this build (http://db.darthhater.com/skill_calc/jedi_consular/shadow/#::e2fefe2fef2e4fdfe2f4efe3cef3e3f6df14:) is IMHO the strongest Assa build there is BY FAR. It's also BY FAR the hardest build to play, not only for assa's, but in the game. The build is also much more versatile than the FullTank, cuz with strong Stuns and Interrupts, you cannot only take out healers, but also DD's if the DMG-output of the opposing teams is too high or stun Sents/Maras or anything else that just used a strong CD. a 4 sec Stun every 15 sec is just ridiculous....

Not being able to heal during walking is the least of my problems (although I think your Idea is neat and could help a bit). Kiting stuff is hard as a Sage and you need to stand still for most of the casts, but good positioning and good support by other players that pull you away, slow the melee-attackers or push them away etc. will be enough. The bigger Problem is that Sages go down way too fast and have no strong instant-heals like the scoundrel. If you give us better heals overall so 1 DD cannot single-handedly take us down and give us one decent instant-burstheal (with some sort of drawback like the upperhand-mechanic that make it unspammable, but more reliable than just a bacta-infusion with a long CD and yes, comms need a decent and reliable burstheal as well, bacta does't cut it) we could actually talk about balanced healing in WZ's. The biggest Issue by far is that the burst-DMG of even 1 DD is sooo much higher than the burst-heal of 1 healer. If you give 5-8k instants to DD's, why not to Healers? Isn't one Healer that is left completely untouched by stuns/CC and has perfect positiong supposed to outheal at least 2 DD's?

well, maybe it's not just about noobs getting nothing for losses, but also: - Decent players that loose constantly because they don't get full teams, whereas the other side gets 8 players all the time. - Decent players get matched into a team with complete idiots because we don't have 8-man premades. If we always get 8 players and if we could actually choose with which players we play with 8-man premades, I wouldn't mind getting a lot less for losses, but as it is now, implementing a system that can only work for ranked global 8-man premades is just ridiculous.

I laughed so hard about the changes, cuz after a brief moment of "wow, BW, nice one" I've actually got into a WZ in which we actually had 8 players, so we completely rolled the opposing team aaaand: 140+ Comms? What's the point in giving the loosing team more comms if the winning team gets more as well? *insert facepalm-meme here* It wasn't only about getting T4 faster, it was mainly about not widening gaps between the players and not letting one side completely outfarm another side that is underpopulated on a certain server. We have about 3 times the imps on our server and with them getting twice the amount of Comms (cuz we only get teams of 6 and they roll us with full teams of 8 constantly) and being able to play a lot more WZ's overall (they get constant Wz's against themselves during times of the day where the reps have like max 4 players waiting for a PvP to open) they have already completely outgeared us in PvP. Within one week, the active Imps on our server were able to massgame and farm 3+ bigger Items of the T4-Set, while we have maybe 3 Players on our server that could afford a bigger piece yet. It's really quite ridiculous.

I'd even go further than that and make them deal even more heal in the same amount of time, here's my reasoning why: - SWtOR is designed for PvP with 8 Players and if ranked WZ's come into play, there will be NO team playing more than 3 Fullhealers, most of them will play 2. Why you ask? Healing will help you defending points, healing ball-carriers or defending on Voidstar, but with more than 3 Healers (and it's gonna be hard with more than 2 Healers as well) it's gonna be almost impossible to get through any door in Voidstar or to recap any point on Novare or Alderaan, once the enemy has captured them. Having more Healers, even if they would heal much more than now, it could lead to very boring stalemates, but they will never be able to straight-up win you a game with mass-heals, cuz healing doesn't capture you points or get you through doors. ---> 2-3 healers it is (I will comment on Hybrid-Specs later, which could be a problem if healing got buffed overall) - If you have 2-3 Healers, the rest will most likely be 1-2 tanks (that do decent DPS as well) and the rest Full-DPS, maybe some Supporters/Hybrids. So it's basically 2 Healers against 6 DD's. Interrupting/Stunning/CCing/killing Healers will therefore reduce healing by 50%, if you do the same on DPS, it will only reduce Damage by like 15-20%. By this logic, Healers could actually out-heal 3 DD's, but that would be ridiculous, cuz you also have Tanks and Supporters, so outhealing 2 DD's should be easily possible at least. And I'm not just talking about Strong 2-second heals, but mostly about instant-heals. Most healers are lacking good burstheal, only the scoundrel even has decent ones that have low enough cooldowns to be reliable against spikes. With 1 DD being able to deal insta-attacks with up to 8k DMG Healers look absolutely ridiculous with their 2k 1 second heals or even the 2k instants by the scoundrel is a joke against spiked DMG. As it is now, 1 DD can actually kill me in a 1v1 pretty handily and with 2 DD's, you can even kill 2 Healers, just by chainstunning and rupting. This is absolutely ridiculous and needs to be fixed. Forget about whiners that don't know how to deal with healers and get into PuG's with 3-4 healers on the opposing side and actually don't notice, that killing in those instances isn't necessary, cuz they won't kill anything as well and play acordingly (movement on the Map with heavy DD's and cap points while deffing another point with some Healers and if you cap a point, they won't be able to recap it with that low DMG-output). About the Hybrid-Specs. If you simply buff Healers, there could be a Problem with Hybrid-Specs that deal decent DMG, but would also get a heal-buff. You could easily fix this by giving Healers the big buffs to healing at T4+ on the Healing-Tree. You could also fix Healing for PvE, so it doesn't get OP by just adding sth. like this: Commando: Potent Medicine adds +2% Healing in PvP per point Sage: Serenity and Clearvoyance adds +2% Healing in PvP per point Scoundrel: Accomplished Sawbones and Homegrown Pharmacology adds +2% Healing in PvP per point Fixed it for Hybrids not being OP, fixed it for healing in PvE not being OP as well.... Than give Healers some decent but unspammable Insta-Heals like the one of the Scoundrel, and healing would be pretty much perfect and rdy for 8-man ranked global warzone awesomeness! You can thank me later BW.

1) No they don't: A Sent beats everything in a 1v1 and they also have a hard time against Guardians and are unable to kill any healing-class in a 1v1. 2) Yeah, also, 1 Healer alone will be able to guard it long enough, 1 Sent/mara or anything with stealth or a tanky Vanguard or Guardian.... 3) Stealth is a decent CD, but in no way more OP than the CD's of Sent. If you're unable to count players on the field and get stealth-ganked all the time, learn how to count. 4) Guardians are soooo much better as ballcarriers, it's ridiculous you'd even come up with the idea that sins are the best. They are probably not even second-best, cuz Vang's with Leap are better as well. 5) It's a good cooldown in huttball, but it's on par with the enemy/friendly pulls by Vanguards and Sages, which don't require investing skillpoints into. What's not on par, are the Leaps by Sent and Guardians, which have less than half cooldown, but allow you to travel the same distance as a pull, just with half cooldown and sometimes 2 Leaps on a single char, which is very tanky as well. 6) They are a good class and they might even be too good right now, but if you look at shadows and say they are the most outrageous thing in PvP right now, with Sage-Healers and DD's being completely UP, Sents being OP in every Situation and Guardians/Juggs completely dominating Huttball, I really wonder why you fixate on this minor nuisance that much... There needs to be a nerf to the Sin-Tank, but a larger Cooldown on Slow time and making Telethrow interruptable even with harnessed shadow will pretty much do the trick...

True, it's not L2P now, it was L2P before 1.2. - Everybody annoyed by Scoundrel-DPS: get your team to slow them, pull them or you away, give you a stunbubble etc. - Everybody annoyed by Healers: Learn that if there are 3+ healers, you won't be able to kill as much, but they won't either. Also Interrupting, stunning and 1-2-3-Spikes worked very well even against 2-3 healers. - Everybody that said Sents were too weak: Learn to use CD's, learn which situations you need to seak out (1v1 or 2v2's preferably) and learn that DMG isn't everything. - Everybody annoyed by Sage-CC: Learn to remove 'em - Everybody that thought Sages got too high DPS-Numbers - learn not to ball up like crazy and make the DPS del 5 times the DMG necessary. As it is now, it has nothing to do with L2P for healers that cannot heal themselves against 2 decent DD's, against Sents being totally OP in almost every Situation or how you've basically lost a Huttball-match If the opponent has more Guardians than you do... It also has nothing to do with L2P if you play a Commando DD or a Sage/Commando Healer and you get basically no healing through if you get interrupted by a Sent/Shadow/guard the whole time, with many CC/Stuns/Interrupts etc.