Lowbie pvp, Maul is your best friend.

I see both sides to this argument. You can us Crd inside of a Low Slash and take advantage of getting a 2 second cast off when other wise it would be next to impossible. If they pop their cc breaker and shroud it then that opens the door for them to be hard stunned and no way to avoid some potentially big Discharge and Shock crits. So they either eat the damage and you get to increase your burst for the next few seconds, or they blow cd's and put themselves in a bad spot for the rest of the fight. On the flip side, if I decide to use CrD inside a Low Slash, if they are able to cc break and interrupt me, or just wait and shroud the back end damage, if I don't have my hard stun then I just screwed myself out of some force and got to wait 3-4 seconds before I can Shock/Discharge. My maul will still be available so if I can gain positioning then I might still be able to do something. But if this happens you really just should have Mauled when you had time to get good positioning. Out of the three specs I run for pvp only one uses Low Slash but I chose to not use CrD because the spec I run has really bad force management and my force is better spent on abilities that can proc Energize. I am on the fence with this debate. The only thing I can say is that it is very situational and there are many variables that go into the pros and cons of using CrD inside of Low Slash.

Your Surging Charge proc is like 800 internal damage. 18% increase to that will make that discharge proc for 1k non crit. It is a nice upgrade. The downside, is the proc rate is pretty low, 25%. On top of that you have to sacrifice 3 points out of the Madness tree, you will either lose your 9% melee crit, or you will lose your force reduction from Torment and 3% of your melee crit. The choice is ultimately yours, however the math will yield higher dps with 5 pnts spent in the Madness tree.

If you want something a bit more sturdy to increase your survivability you should try DarkMaul, 12-31-3, ran in Dark Charge. I cannot say that this is actually better than full Deception because the sustained damage and force management are inferior to full Deception. But you do have some crazy burst as well as great survivability. You are in Dark Charge, but you still take advantage of the defensive goodies offered by Deception, Darkswell, Fade, Entropic Field. As far as your burst you have really hard hitting Shocks from Energize and Crackling Blast and increased Maul procs via Impose Weakness. Not to mention the snare breaker from Sprint and being able to guard healers and squishies. There is also a Hybrid of going up the Darkness tree for Blood of the Sith and then going up Madness for Deathfield. This spec is really easy to play, you run in Lightning Charge, keep 100% up time on your dot, keep DF on cd, and Spam Thrash for Raze. You will never run out of force. I am sure there is another version of this hybrid that is ran in Dark Charge but I havent tried it yet so i got no tips for ya. The old Wakajinn spec doesn't have the swagger it had pre 2.0. But it can still work if you know what your doing. This spec has the same opening burst that full Deception has, but your Static Charges will be slow to build so you will Discharge far less, but you get the damage utility offered by some pretty sexy Deathfields. To answer your question, the Hybrids are not dominating anymore. My favored DarkMaul spec lacks sustained damage offered by going full Deception, and it lacks the utility and survivability of a full Darkness Assassin. Right now, full Deception is a bit stronger than wakajinn. And full Madness (even as gimped as it is) is stronger than any Madness Hybrids and can easily put a million damage up in a WZ. In my opinion all three skill trees are stronger than any of the hybrids.

These are a few of my best games. 700k dmg, I know people have done way more with Assassins. 350k protection, I know people have done way more with Assassins, but I ask you have they done it in the same game? Dark Maul ftw. Oh and I could of swore I had a 23 medal game but I guess I forgot to SS, anyways Id like to see how I fare against the community too. As far as biggest hit, I have definitely had 10k Mauls, and Shock+Chain Shock crits for over 11k on people, but that damage wont ever get totaled as a single hit. https://live.staticflickr.com/2866/9384683263_3a8bfd27cd_b.jpg https://live.staticflickr.com/2853/9384674483_f6732d5b9d_b.jpg https://live.staticflickr.com/7325/9384667195_0c4cfc09f5_b.jpg I know these stats are just for fun, but there is really only one stat that matters, win or lose.

I parse best with 0-18-28. Keep 100% up time on your dot, keep DF on cd, spam Thrash for Raze and Maul procs.

That interview is old, that is a ******** answer. Saying that MadSin is actually on par with other dps classes because we cannot factor in our execute phase is just crap. Those other dps classes also have execute phases and armor debuffs that arent factored in. And the reality is, on real boss fights MadSin parses way lower than everyone else even with their execute phase. Don't buy into their garbage, they just do not want to admit that they messed up an entire spec for an AC.

What about 0-13-33, going up dirty fighting to get Dirty Shot. Basically sacrificing a couple contingency charges for Quick Draw procs. or 2-11-33 for Steady Shots or Sharpshooter, or even 0-11-35 for Incendiary mines.

I literally just posted about this spec in 2 other threads lol. I am loving it. http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=663865 In this thread I posted the spec I think in my second post. Instead of just typing the info again you can see everything I put there. In two posts I give a general idea on how the spec plays and why I chose certain talents. As far as gearing I am doing the same thing as Deception. 94% acc (Im happy with what talents and my companion gives me here), 75.5% Surge, I run 23% crit, I like to have a bit of this to help with my dependency on Maul crits for my burst. The rest in Power. You can pretty much just follow Xinika's guide on gearing and stat priority and get your best stats possible for this spec. I do not run a shield as I would consider this spec more dps than tank. More like a dps spec that can guard and has some staying power in a big fight. I have been talking about this spec since 2.0 was on ptr, just click my name you will see at least 20 posts where I break down the pros and cons of this spec, rotations, and talent synergy. I am also on the bastion server, you can pm me in game, going by Xethiss on that server.

I guess I am a few days late, sorry I did not see this sooner. To answer your question I usually open with Low Slash. I think this is superior to Spike. Spike is only 2 seconds, and by the time your 1.5 sec global is up you only have .5 seconds to use your Maul (or what ever ability you choose). When I open with Low Slash, I get some breather room to position my toon, wait for force to get back to 100%, and it costs far less resolve which gives me room for my hard stun and another Low Slash when it comes back off cd. Anyways, after my Low Slash I use my first Maul proc, I watch for my Energize and Maul procs, use Thrash if they are not procc'd. Sometimes on an opener, I get my first Maul off, it procs Energize so I Shock, and that Shock procs Maul again. If those Mauls crit your looking at 20k-25k damage in just a few globals. Not bad for a spec that is guarding healers lol. Sometimes though you run into some bad RNG, and have to spam Thrash a few times to get Energize or Maul to proc. With this spec, you cannot just spam Thrash and have the required force to Shock at will. You have to be conservative with your Thrash to not starve yourself of force. Blackout is your friend. Using Force Cloak offensively for a reset on Blackout and Recklessness is also great at keeping your force where you need it. I spend quite a bit of time guarding healers, doing what I can to peel with my knockback and Low Slash, needless to say Im out of stealth a lot when playing this style. When I am out of stealth and get opened on I have a different rotation. Lets say a Mara leaps to me, I will pop Deflection if I have it, and Shroud if he has 3 stacks of Shockwave. Next I just Saber Strike till Maul procs, which is usually right away. I then hard stun and Maul, if Energize procs off of Maul then Ill Shock, if not I will Thrash. Just before the stun ends (if he didn't use his cc break) I will then Low Slash for another Maul, If Energize did not proc on the first Maul, very good chance it will proc after my second Maul, sometimes it procs off of both Mauls, lol. Anyways, again in just a few globals you have done about 15k damage (give or take 5k) and limited the damage of the Mara through cc and defensive cd's. You will be high health, and he will be low health, should be easy to finish him form there. Sorry I was so late with response, it was an old thread and was not watching it. Hopefully this answered your question.

http://www.swtor-spy.com/skill-tree-calculator/sith-assassin/11/?build=022330001100000000000000000000000322230021102030221022000010000003000000000000000000000000000000&ver=20 This is the spec I run. In the Darkness tree the only real talents your chasing there are Disjunction and Energize. The other points you can play around with as you like, but personally upping the damage on your Dark Charge proc is pointless, the damage is so weak it isn't worth the 3 points. As far as its proc rate, you already have a 50% chance to proc it with an internal cd of 4.5 seconds. Increasing the proc rate isn't going to make it proc more, your still going to proc it within the first 1-2 globals after your 4.5 sec cd.

As far as guides for your Lightning spec, don't even bother. That Shadow probably was qued with some friends and had some healer buddies. I even ran a Madness spec for a few weeks, it is not hard to get 500k or even 1mil with this spec. All you do is spread your dots, use DF on grouped up enemies, spam Thrash for Raze. Thats it. As far as your 13-31-2 spec, I run a very similar spec and absolutely love it. 12-31-3 (Dark Maul) is by far my favorite spec right now. Tons of burst while guarding healers and squishies. I love the play style. I still get big crits and get to kill people, and I have the utility of guard to help keep healers up. Not uncommon for me to go 500k-700k+ damage and 200k-350k protection. I know most of you think 700k isn't that much damage compared to Snipers and Smash Monkeys. But keep in mind that 500k-700k damage is all single target Shocks and Mauls, No aoe's or dots. If you guys have not tried this spec yet, I strongly recommend it.

If your sick of Deception, you should try 12-31-3 (Dark Maul). You run in Dark Charge and guard healers, you still get Exploit Weakness so you basically get 2 Maul procs every 10 sec. You take advantage of all the defensive talents in Deception tree, but piggy back them with the defensive bonus of Dark Charge. Energize and Crackling Blast have some wicked synergy as their crit bonus stacks to 100% when using Recklessness. When Chain Lightning procs and crits, like it always does with Reck buff, I do over 10k dmg, almost 11k. Not bad damage for a single target instant cast ability. Electric Execution will reset your Recklessness buff even though you are in Dark Charge. Not uncommon for me to hit 700k dmg and 250k protection in WZ's with this spec. That 700k damage is no aoe or dots, its all 5k-10k Shocks and 4k-8k Mauls. Its alot of fun, most do not expect the burst from an Assassin in Dark Charge. This spec does suffer from some bad force management, but with some practice and skill you can work around it to always have the force you need to burst people down.

Nice to see you posting again waka. Glad your back in the game. I do have a couple thoughts about your post though. Firstly, I think Deception is in a fantastic place right now. In fact I think you are probably the one responsible for the new Electric Ambush talent. Your wakajinn spec pre 2.0 showed the Assassin community just how valuable upfront burst was compared to sustained damage and even burst that requires set up. Now every Deception Sin has really hard hitting auto crits right at the beginning of the fight. Yes it does suck when later in the fight your Discharge and Shock hit for less damage than a VS, but that is just the trade off you get for being able to basically open up on someone to start the fight with them at 50% health. Deception has nice defensive talents with great opening burst, in my opinion, no changes are needed. Yes there are some useless talents and abilities, but I really don't think that we need a change. We all agree that Madness is in a very very bad place right now, in pve and pvp. I like your idea's about getting Shock and Force Lightning back into the mix, but I fear that the class will play too similarly to other AC's. I made a post a while back when 2.0 first launched about some proposed changes that will make MadSin fun again, only 4 changes will not only bring this spec up to par with others for pvp, but also give it some uniqueness. First, make DF proc our Discharge dot. Your idea of making Lacerate proc this is not a bad idea, but I would rather do it from range lol. This way we can also apply our dots from range the same as Lethality OP. Since DF is a long cd (18sec) it will not come close to being op. Second change would be to Torment and Claws of Decay. Make Torment include Lacerate and reduce its force cost to 25 force. Claws of Decay would include Lacerate in its crit bonus damage. This would turn the MadSin into a melee aoe terror. Instead of spamming Thrash for Raze, we could spam Lacerate for Raze and produce a ton of spammable aoe damage. As of right now with Lambaste, Charge Mastery and Electric Execution my Lacerates are doing 2.5k-3.5k damage on everyone it hits, even returning force. We would not have the big crits that Rage Warriors have, but your aoe is spammable and would quickly surpass their aoe if we are not cc'd or kited. The third change would be to make Assassinate usable at any health % during our Crushing Darkness dot. So once every 10 sec or so we could use Assassinate to help with some single target burst. Fourth and final change, would be to our heals we get back, they either need to be doubled flat out, or include our Lightning Discharge (not the dot) to also proc heals. This way as we are spamming Lacerate for our auto procs on Lightning Charge we are also healing back. The more people we hit, the more danger we are in, the more heals we deserve. It will give us a little bit of staying power against the other melee classes. I will agree that you are one of the best pvp Assassin we have in the community. As I mostly pvp, I would be inclined to vote for you as you would have my interests represented. However, I am worried that some of the pve'ers might not get the best representation. Do we have any Assassins that both hardcore raid and do ranked warzones? That person might be better suited to represent the community.

I have been parsing higher with this spec since 2.0 was on PTR. I would trade Charge Mastery for Creeping Death. Charge Mastery only affects your proc on your Lightning Charge, not your dot, 30% more crit on your dot and DF is way better dps.

This is a very low priority. Way below new content, new instances, new gear, class balancing, and below new items for their beloved cartel market. Might see a hood toggle before we see Seethe fixed.

LOL I was thinking the same thing, this guy is off his rocker!

Hey guys, I am a new transfer to Bastion and I am pretty excited. Ive been on Pot5 since launch and my pvp experience there has been frustrating since I was fighting some bad latency. Anyways I am finally on a west coast server and actually enjoying pvp again. Little bit about me. Ive been a hardcore PvP MMO'er since 2002 with SWG. In 2005 I left SWG for WoW, where I was a rank 14 rogue, and in TBC I was a gladiator. Not too long after WotLK launched I quit that game. Took a break from MMO's waiting for this one. Played a few to pass the time, Rift, EVE, STO. Been playing this game regularly since launch. Assassin is my main, despite its ups and downs, currently I am having a blast with it. I run a Darkness hybrid, (Dark Maul, 12-31-3) I guard healers and squishies as well as burst as good as any full Deception Sin. I am currently looking for a PvP guild that does Rated War Zones frequently. I do not care if I am joining the top pvp guild on this server or one that is still working its way up. I just want to play competitive pvp now that I am on a server where I have a descent latency. The negatives about me. First, like I mentioned above, pvp on Pot5 was frustrating for me. I am not BiS yet and not even close to Itemized gear. I do have full Partisan and working on my Conqueror set. Now that PvP is fun again I will have this resolved shortly. The second is my work schedule. I would love to classify myself as a hardcore player, but my work schedule would dictate otherwise. I currently work one week on, and one week off. they are 12 hour shifts as well as an hour commute, so during my work week I will barely log on. However I do make up for it on my week off and put in 40-60 hours in. My in game name is Xethiss, hit me up if you can use me.

The original OP made me lol pretty good. Thanks for the laugh. I do still pvp with my sin, I run a Darkness Hybrid that I absolutely love. As far as pve, I rolled a Lethality Operative because it is basically what I wish MadSin played like. Not only is it fun and interesting to play, it also hits dps #'s that will keep me competitive with other classes. Lethality Op is everything MadSin should be, dot and aoe from range, then move in for some wicked burst at 4-10m. Anyways, I really hope 2.4 will adjust the weaker AC's in pve and pvp to bring better balance to this game so we can play the toons we want to play and still stay competitive no matter what role we want to choose.

That makes no sense. The warriors would get destroyed. All the agents would totally be spread out and spamming dots and aoe from range. Every time the warriors focused someone they would all get aoe'd. Your logic is flawed.

Aoe and dots are just fluff damage and don't work in pvp. Haha! I absolutely love playing my Lethality Op. Glad to see a vid like this, totally made my day.

I just spent like an hour on the dummies, I am consistently parsing 100-150 dps higher with Mad Maul. I am not BIS yet, but I still think Mad Maul is better sustained damage with higher burst.

This does sound interesting. I have played the 0-18-28 hybrid quite a bit, but never even thought about 18-0-28. I am assuming the Darkness/Madness hybrid would play similarly to the old school 23-1-17 build, minus the utility of course. The Mad Maul build, 0-18-28, has hard hitting Mauls to give it some crazy burst when used in concert with Raze. With your build do you Shock at all for added burst, or do you just rely on your force regen for extra Thrashes?

I have to disagree with you here bud. 0-18-28 does way more damage than full Madness. You basically play this spec the same way you played Madness pre 2.0, minus Creeping Terror. You DF, Discharge then spam Thrash for Raze and Duplicity procs. Duplicity will proc about every ten seconds, Creeping Terror is an 18 sec cd. Maul will hit for 4k-9k damage for most people in descent gear. Creeping Terror will usually do about 4.5k damage per cast give or take a bit for crits. You can see even if your Mauls don't crit, you will easily do more damage than Creeping Terror. Also, Discharge ticks harder than Creeping Terror, so those Death Marks will make most of your ticks from your Discharge dot do the extra damage, making your average damage per cast of Discharge actually go up.

I agree 100%. I play a hybrid spec, Dark Maul 12-31-3, and even though its a bit more of a defensive build I still run 31 pnts in Deception and have pretty much the same play style. Im hitting with my Mauls for 7-8k, Shocks 6-9k, with in 4-5 globals I can easily do 25k+ damage. There are classes that require less set up, but they do far less damage, and the classes that can do that much damage require even more of set up. Right now Deception is the king of melee. I am only in Partisan gear and it is not min maxed yet, and I still win the majority of my 1v1's. I love when a Mara or Jugg leap to me when I am <50% health, and I completely destroy them with a nasty crit chain, lol. When I get opened on, Ill start with Saber Strike (almost 90% chance to proc Duplicity), Maul procs so I hard stun and get behind them (even if they break cc, Im usually already behind them) for my first Maul, then I Low Slash for my second Maul. 8k-15k damage already. Two Mauls have a pretty good chance to proc my Energize so I can roll into a Reck/Shock for another 6k-9k damage. If my Mauls crit then I will just Assassinate/Thrash till they are down, maybe one more Shock. So much fun.