Have you seen my vid, double discharges are for real.

LOL I think I have more killing blows with Force Slow during Recklessness than any other ability lol.

Not a stupid question. It is much easier to Maul spam on a dummy than in a WZ with competent players. I think he was just trying to disprove my statement that Dark Maul has better opening burst than full Deception.

Ok I was looking over your parses and I am seeing what you are doing. It is sexy btw. I am actually a huge fan of Maul spam. Anyways I wanted to through a couple things at ya. First off in my parses, I have two Mauls, and 2 Shocks and one Discharge, one to two Thrashes and maybe a Saber Strike. Your parses have 4-5 Mauls one Shock and one Discharge (just during Reck I presume). This tells me a couple of things. First, I need to Maul more. Second, you can do the exact same rotation that you do in your spec as you can in Dark Maul. Mauls costs the same, Shock and Discharge costs the same. Dark Embrace restores same amount of force. The only difference is that when you do that same rotation in Dark Maul spec you will have 50% increase crit damage on your Shock, and you will Double Discharge giving you 3k more damage in the exact same amount of globals and force used. Maul has the exact same chance to proc Energize as Thrash does, so do that. The majority of the time Energize will proc for me with in the first one or two times I Thrash or Maul, it will proc for you on your first couple Mauls more than half the time. You obviously got way better gear than me, and when I was parsing Deception I was using standard rotations, not Maul spam. Tomorrow I will definitely give Decpetion a go again with your rotations. I will try to duplicate those same rotations with my spec and see how they do against each other. Another thing to keep in mind, Maul spam is easy on a dummy. Trying to get 5 Mauls off on someone on the battlefield is a whole other animal. Since you have shown me that Maul spam is effective, I might even try 18-28-0, Blood of the Sith with Crackling Blast. You lose lots of goodies, but you gain a **** ton of force.

One thing I forgot to mention in the video. Crackling Blast increases your crit damage on Discharge by 50%. That includes your dot Discharge from Lightning Charge and your aoe Discharge in Dark Charge. In Lightning Charge my dot will crit for 1200-1400, almost as much as a full MadSin with Deathmarks. The aoe will crit for 3k too, makes the aoe Discharge almost worth while.

@Elyna, I am glad you liked the song lol. Anyways, I am sure most people will try Dark Maul and quickly find that they parse much better with Deception. The fact is, most have played Deception since 1.4 so they are pretty fluid with it. Takes a bit of time to get used to Dark Maul. Most dismiss it right away with out putting in some time. Some tips to do it right. Tip 1, I choose to do my stance dance in stealth. This way you can take advantage of Dark Embrace and you will recover from your dance much faster. So I start in Surging, pop Reck, and switch to Dark Charge. Don't wait till you are full force to open, like you mentioned you are on a timer and sometimes you need more time to get an Energize proc. I open about 50% force, you will still be in Dark Embrace buff so you won't be force starved. Tip 2, don't open with Spike it will just consume one of your Reck buffs. You also only gain one global on your opponent and you give him a bunch of resolve. It is best to open with Low Slash, this ability gives you more time before you have to open. So you can take your time back peddling to get in position for Maul, lol j/k. Low Slash also fills far less resolve. Tip 3, Saber Strike is your friend. I usually get an Energize proc after my first Maul/Thrash combo. If you get bad RNG then Saber Strike for your next Maul. Saber Strike has a great chance to proc Maul because of the 3 strikes. After that Maul if you still didn't get a proc (very rare), then you will surely have enough force for more Thrashes. Tip 4, Keep the pain train moving. Our Low Slash has a 15sec cd, but the Maul proc we got off of it only has a 10sec internal cd. So when your first Dark Embrace set is going to expire (10-12 sec in) You can Force Cloak/Spike to proc your second Impose Weakness Maul proc. Then you can use your second set of Dark Embrace to time your next Low Slash for your third Impose Weakness proc. Basically use Dark Embrace to keep track Duplicity's cd. Tip 5, Discharge>Shock in the opener. (last tip I promise) When I got a chain Shock crit and burned two charges of Reck I was finding was that when I double discharged, the discharge for the charge I was in (Dark Charge) would always fire off first consuming the last charge of Reck. This leaves your Static Charge Discharge to basically have your normal crit chance, so it never crits. Your going to double discharge 100% of the time, and there is only a chance that you will proc your chain shock. So I would take the guaranteed double crit from your double discharge first then Shock second. Uhh, this is for single target only. Do not Discharge if your aoe discharge will hit other people, it will definitely consume all your Reck charges and you will lose out on your cirt damage bonus for an Energized Shock. Hope this helps!

Umm, 50% increased crit damage on a guaranteed crit is a very big deal. That means you are doing that much more damage every single time. So Deception with Reck will crit on Shock for 4.5k+2.k(chain proc) doing a max of about 6k dmg. Energized Reck Shocks will do 6k+3k(chain proc). that is 1.5k-2.5k more damage per cast. Discharge is going to be the same for both specs, except in Dark Maul you will also Discharge the aoe Discharge from Dark Charge which in my gear is about 2.5k damage. And those numbers are figured from my crap gear, I can only imagine what a fully itemized conq could do. That is 5k more damage in the same two globals. I don't see how you could beat that by a mile. Full Deception cannot do 3.5k dps during the first 12 sec with Dark Embrace buff. The most I have ever seen it do was 3.3k when both Mauls crit, and it only happened a few times. Dark Maul does 3.5k dps with only critting on one Maul.

I found a few things and was all ready to point them to everyone, and I had to stop myself. This is not what I do, I did not call them out before because that is not who I am. I am not the type of person to call people out and flex on them because I think I am better than them. That is why I don't like people like you. I would rather help people, not try to make them look bad. So I am not going to nitpick your vid to try and save face. So what, I back pedal during stuns. Yeah, I would rather take two steps back to get ready for a Maul, than turn around, strafe back and turn back around. I am so sorry that offends you. I am so sorry that indicates to you that I am a bad player. You know, people say that clicking is bad too, but some people do really well as clickers. Clicking ain't my thing, but I don't try to clown people that do. Why do you feel so threatened by the Dark Maul spec. Who cares what it can and can't do. There are many people that love it, there are even more that hate it. They don't feel the need to come on the forums and talk bad about it or the people that play it. All I ever said was that it was fun, and viable. I also say it has the best opening dps because the numbers support it. If Deception had the best opening burst I would support that, but it doesn't put up the same numbers. Look bro, I am a huge fan of Wakajinn spec, been playing it since 1.3 when Wakalord first told us about it. I know how powerful that spec is and exactly what it can bring. I am not saying Dark Maul is better than that spec, I am only saying that it has burst and is fun to play. I proved it has burst. So instead you try to point out some bad habits of mine. I hope it made you feel better. Why do you feel the need to bash a spec that you clearly have never even tried. I bet your that type of kid that said that you don't like cheesecake and you never even took a bite.

Oh you mean like that time you Mind Trapped someone and broke your own cc with an Overload on the very next global giving them a full resolve bar and only 1.5 sec of mezz? You mean can I find things like that in your vid?

Ive lost duels with the 12-31-3 spec, only to people that are hands down better players. But I have never lost a 1v1 in a WZ or RWZ. This spec performs insanely well. Most people see that I am in Dark Charge and start saving defensive cd's for my Force Lightning, but like before they know it they are at 30% health lol. I love it.

Well what do you know, negative Nancy has something negative to say. Of course you did not see anything unexpected, your Evolixe, the best Shadow/Assassin there ever was. Nothing for you to ever learn because you know everything already. I don't understand how you say that Deception has the same opening burst. Deception can't do 3.5k opening burst. Dark Maul can. So the Mauls are a wash between the two. So lets look at Discharge and Shock. Dark Maul has two Discharges, about 2.5k more damage per cast. Dark Maul has 50% increase crit on Shock. So, how can Deception even compare to the opening burst. Your in denial my friend. Dark Maul hands down has the best opening burst for the Assassin AC. As far as my back peddling, I don't even know what your talking about. Sometimes a backpedal is necessary, specially when my target is in a Low Slash and I got time. I wasn't going to go there on your vid, but since your so quick to try and point out what I do wrong I guess Ill go write the book on all the stupid crap I saw you do in your vid.

Not for arenas no, but might as well open with stance a stance dance since it doesn't hurt you at all and your in your Dark Embrace buff. Its basically a free double discharge.

I just play the tank role till someone is being focused or I can sprint over and nuke. Ill just stay close to my healer pealing with Low Slash and Overload, playing the objectives, harassing their healers. When the time is right Ill pop Blackout and spam Thrash for Energize, pop Recklessness and focus them down. If I can get a restealth after a kill or through Force Cloak I will get nasty on them. Another thing I do is I do not play from the bottom of my force pool. I play similar to my sniper and stay at 50+ force. Yes its more Saber Strikes, but they do about 1500 dmg on average so it ain't too bad. They actually have a great chance to proc Maul if your not on your internal CD. Then its Low Slash for another Maul and if Energize hasn't procd yet I will have enough force for a Thrash or two.

Not sure how many of you read both Shadow and Assassin forums. But I made an Assassin video with some hidden game synergy that I thought maybe some of you would take an interest in. http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=681132

Does anyone in this game at all even do the space missions. They must have some kind of metrics that will give them the % of space missions completed. They got to know that a mini game is not going to make bad space design good. I wish they would just steal JTL from SWG. That was the best space I ever participated in.

Deception Sin is great for reg WZ's and you really wont see the Assassin start to diminish till high level pvp. There are several hybrid specs that are really fun to play for WZ's too. Deception in general focuses on opening burst, and has some of the best in the game. If you like sneaky sneaky with devastating damage, Sin is for you. Veng Jugg really doesn't shine in pvp till you get gear. And Smash Juggs are really good in reg WZ's and will also have a solid spot in high level pvp, arenas. Juggs have really good burst, and great aoe burst. You really are the king of melee, and everyone around you will be punished. Honestly, I would level both. Bounce back and forth to the toon that has the rested xp. You will level two characters in almost the time it takes to level one. Anyways, get them both to the mid 40s so you can explore each of the skill trees and see what play style you like best. As for me, I hate my Jugg and love my Assassin, but others have the exact opposite feelings. So the choice is yours, you really will have to try both.

The trick is to exploit your Dark Embrace buff with your stance dancing. You'll notice in the vid that when I stance danced with Dark Embrace buff I pretty much had plenty of force to do what ever I wanted, at the end of the Dark Embrace buff I had enough force to go through the normal rotations of the charge that I was in.

I was very worried that it is not intended either, my guild leader (the guy that came up with it) gave me strict orders to keep it hush hush. But the 3 assassins in my guild are all unanimous to go into 2.4 with different AC's. So I was like ***, might as well let the cat out of the bag. Looking at the rate at which BW balances, probably not going to be soon. On top of the increased damage due to double discharging, still had problems with guarded healers and tanks being healed. I felt that the increased damage was able to put more pressure than other specs, but it still was not enough to kill them easily. Devs have already stated that they are going to keep wall banging in the game for Engineering Snipers, maybe they will keep this in the game considering the skill level it takes to pull it off.

Before you watch the vid pls read the first part of my post. When I started making this video I wanted to make it over the top with the best effects and slow mo and all that. I just ran out of time. With 2.4 around the corner I need to get as many of my toons with as many WZ coms as possible. So I will simplify my vid and get straight to the point. So the editing was rushed and is no where near polished, I just wanted to get my point across and maybe help some of you get a little more bang out of your Sins. The montage section of the vid has some lopsided fights with some under geared opponents, pls don't judge. All that footage was collected in about an hour. My original goal was to have some sexy duels and great 1v2's, 2v4's, stuff I am used to doing all the time. All of a sudden when Fraps is on, there are no good fights. Anyways please just check out the burst that the spec has to offer, I am sure you guys can theory craft and apply what you see with what you know. Post thoughts- Dark Maul, 12-31-3. (its named that because you are in Dark Charge and you Maul a lot) This spec is great for reg WZ's and for 1v1's. In my opinion it offers a great hybrid of defense and offense that makes pvp really really fun. In the video I did not show much guarding or even peeling for healers or squishy's, my goal was to show off the double discharge. But I think it "Might" be a great spec for arena with its burst capability and being able to guard. You can run a double guard set up, or basically run a 3 dps team with one guard for the healer. The sustained damage is pretty bad, but the survivability and burst might give it a home in arenas. Dancing Krayt, 0-30-16 (its named that because you stance dance and do a ton of damage, as a krayt would if it was in this game) So much to say about this spec. I played it for about a month straight in regs and ranked and it has some good and bad things. First, its hard as hell to manage. I was mentally exhausted after every match. The way I played it was just go into Lightning Charge and play the Mad Maul play style unless Recklessness was available then I would get a dot on my target and switch to a Wakajinn play style. Getting Raze procs in Wakajinn is sexy as hell, and it is really really nice in Mad Maul when you can apply your Discharge dot with a 6k crit in front of it. Managing the force with either of these specs is very challenging. As far as arenas, I don't see this spec doing well as trying to switch targets entails lots of ramp up time due to having to change stances. It is easy to burst down and suffers from being kited easily. However, if you are looking for a challenging spec that delivers insane damage, this spec is for you. I did mention in the video about Xandrila, for the record I just want everyone to know that he is the one that showed me the 0-30-16 spec, and the advantages of stance dancing. As far as the Assassin in general, rest in peace. I plan on taking my sniper into 2.4. Assassins in general have too many shortcomings to even list. Sniper was designed for arena play it seems, they got all the goodies, sustained damage, burst, cc, aoe cc, defensive cd's. Anyways, I hope this video helps some of have fun playing your Assassins again.

Fair enough. I guess it can be thought of be someone as easy as it was for me to think of it. I'm first though!!! lol.

Uh, no. First your Assassin did not come up with this spec, I did back in February. Second, the synergy in the talents is a pretty good explanation of the burst potential of the spec. However a little over a month ago a guildie of mine pointed out some hidden synergy of another ability that makes this spec even more nasty. Hopefully I will have a vid on that done today or tomorrow. http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=601756 This is the first time I introduced this spec. For those that follow these forums they can testify that I have posted about this spec at least 100 times since then.

I want to respond to the last 10 posts so bad. What I will do instead since I got the next week off from work is just get my rear in gear and finish this damn vid. I really wanted to get some quality duels and 2v1's in regs and some arena footage. As of late it seems finding good opponents is rare as most are on their alts. And the last week or so even when I did get in a good situation my pc wanted to run fraps at 10fps. Anyways, Ill wait on the duel guides and the arena footage and just get the guide portion polished. At least this way you guys can see my spec and rotations. I can also show you the potential of both specs I am showing off. To be as fair and unbiased as possible, I will also go over the disadvantages of these specs. A lot of you guys are far better at pvp than I am, I am sure you guys can see my examples and be able to assess for yourself the effectiveness in pvp.

HAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAHAH! I might even release my vid early just so you can see how wrong you are lol. The reason I listed pros and cons, is because I am not biased. I love playing several specs as much as I do Dark Maul. I never once ever told you or anyone that Dark Maul is better than any spec. All I have ever stated was that it was fun and viable. But I guess the statement I made about the opening burst really hurt your feelings. The thing is I parsed like 5 specs, all during the first 12 seconds (during Dark Embrace buff) to see what spec has the best opening burst. And I did this for months. Sometimes Deception does really well, but on average Dark Maul does more opening burst by 100-300dps. Why do you think that I don't Discharge with the Dark Maul spec? You keep saying that I lose Discharge, I don't understand why you keep repeating that?

The thing is, your biased. You see all the advantages of the specs you are familiar with, and just theorycraft the disadvantages of the Dark Maul spec. If you truly tried it, then you would have a far better understanding. It has far more advantages and disadvantages than you mentioned. The main disadvantage is the force management. It is horrendous. You cannot just sit back and spam Thrash and Shock every time you get Energize proc. Deception, Madness and the hybrids will all do more damage because of this. The only real damage you can do through Energize costs you 45 force, and as you mentioned, you don't even get the Torment Talent. If raw damage is your deciding factor for the spec you want to play, then Dark Maul is not for you. As far as the Advantages, your lack of interest to even try this spec is giving you a very biased opinion. First advantage, armor and survivability. You get more armor, heals every 5 sec, you get more defense and longer Shroud. You also couple those with the already awesome talents in the Deception tree. During your Dark Embrace you have awesome staying power. One of the biggest disadvantages that Assassins have going into arenas is the fact that they are really easy to burst down with out using defensive cd's from themselves or team mates. Well, fighting in Dark Charge will give you a huge advantage in this area compared to Deception and Madness hybrids. Another advantage Darkness Assassins have is the talent Disjunction. Having a snare break every 15 sec is amazing for this spec, specially since we are so susceptible to being kited. Dark Maul can Guard. Out of all the tanks and tank hybrids in the game, Dark Maul is by far the most damaging spec/AC there is that can also Guard. Guarding healers is a priceless utility to have in this game. My arena team has even experimented with double Guarding set up. Our tank Guards the healer, I Guard the Mara. We really cannot be focused down. No matter who they target, they either have to deal with Guard mitigation or armor mitigation. We haven't worked out all the kinks with this comp yet, but we are definitely really hard to kill. Dark Maul has burst. The opening burst that Dark Maul can dish out is more than Deception or any hybrid. During the Dark Embrace buff, it cannot be rivaled. Yes there are specs that do more damage, but I truly feel that the utility you gain from being in Dark Charge is worth the cost. The reason it is still worth it, because Dark Maul can still burst. It is really hard to say if it is actually better or worse than other specs. It is fun as hell for me, I really like what it offers. That being said, I cannot wait to finish my vid so I can show you guys just how much burst I can do. There is actually another spec I want to show off too, I guarantee I will blow some minds.

Its not that your negative, or dishonest. Its that you are always telling people that they are wrong. I enjoy a heated debate now and again, just as much as anyone else. But you seem to challenge everyone every chance you get. For instance, someone might say "I have been running this spec (xx-xx-xx) and been having a blast with it. It might not be ideal, but I do gain a few abilities that I like." Your response to this comment would be "That spec is so inferior, the things you are sacrificing are so not worth the abilities your gaining. You need to run this spec (xx-xx-xx) its the only spec that matters so it has to be the only spec you should play." I might have exaggerated a tad, but you've done something like this at least 100 times this summer. Once in a while someone will call you out on it, then you'll get real nice for a few posts, but a few days later, your right back at it again. I am sure you don't mean to do it, and I don't recall you ever insulting anyone. But what gets me is I know how wrong you are about your spec and to hear you go on and on and on about it is driving me up the wall. So much in fact that you have inspired me to make this video. To be fair it isn't just you, your just the most vocal. There are lots of people that swear up and down that a spec is better than another, but they haven't even tried it. Spending a few min on a dummy or going in a few WZ's is not trying a spec out.