I'm a Merc Arsenal. I'm not even a 'hardcore' PvPer. In fact, I don't do any PvP in an MMO until I've sucked the marrow out of all PvE content. And you're right, classes match up differently against one another. The entire point of this thread was, any time a discussion comes up of making a pre-made exclusive bracket, you hear wailing and gnashing of teeth. And we all know who is crying, and why. Pre-mades are scared of not being able to farm PUG's for easy wins. (it'll already get harder for them with the 50-only bracket, and eliminating Rakata pack adv, since the same mindset will be attracted to both easy advantages)

Well, I guess they don't have to fight back.

You afraid of a pre-made bracket too?

Asking a question is "crying," huh? So you're another one scared of a pre-made bracket? Your whole response sounds pretty visceral. Perhaps you doth protest too much. What happens if I "wander out" and it's only you and me and you got not friends to save you?

Collected more data today. Mostly in Huttball, once in Civil War (against a Repub pre-made) can confirm, pre-mades are weak 1 on 1. They're not all that good 1 on 1, which is to (possibly say) they're simply not good. At least not as good as they might otherwise 'seem' as a team. Weather pre-mades are the natural result of weak players coming together to deal with better players, or players eventually become dependent (and thus weak) depending on a team, pre-mades seem to be very weak fighting 1 on 1. (though you have to work to get 1 on 1 fights, as they really try to avoid them) They can't fight on their own. (ps. I only have 3 pieces of gear, and I do NOT use Rakata packs either. Still whipped them when 1 on 1. Every single time. Probably over a couple dozen 1 on 1 match-ups today, in what had to be pre-made teams) Why they so scared of other pre-mades? (rhetorical)

Some way that makes you feel good about yourself?

Auto-target only works on the present or immediate activated power. So if I already start an attack and you're (already) facing me (otherwise, I can't even start it), it moves me to finish the attack if you move during (that I already started while facing you). Only then does that happen; only then does it "turn me." From then onwards, if you're moving, I must move to face you before I fire again, with my next attack. So bunny-hopping and the like still work... so long as I don't react to it. Sounds like lots of folks in this thread are unaware, or ignoring that.

I have ESP. Without reading a single post, I'm guessing here's the gist of this thread: -- Operatives can go undetected stealthed, de-cloak and kill anyone in 2-3 hits, then re-stealth before anyone can realistically do anything, most of the time. -- They can't cloak if hit with a DoT, but most of those are a charged attack, so you'll never activate them, cause you're already dead. So the OP OP stealths anyhow after killing you in .5 seconds. -- If you see the "fight" from afar and see the OP stealth and manage to activate a "Stealth Scan" ability, it's too late, as they can immediately sprint once in stealth, half-way across the map by the time the scan power activates and you finally re-acquire target lock on them... you can't even fire. -- Conclusion: This is ridiculous, out of standard with both SW lore and MMO mechanics in general. (Han Solo was a quick-draw artist. Sneaky. Suave. He couldn't kill everyone in an instant then disappear over and over and over and over. Not even thematically.) -- Operatives here on the forums whine, moan, and troll anyone exposing such truths, scared they'll lose their "I win!" strategy. Am I psychic? (or have I played TOR PvP?)

My DoT is Fusion Missile. It's "R" on the 'lower' quickslot bar (Shift A). That doesn't change anything. (Oh, and it's a charged attack, has a 30 sec cooldown, and I'm not getting it unless the OP is attacking someone else) Still amazed?

A-ha! That explains it! The times I've attacked an Operative (who wasn't attacking me, or I'd already been dead from the op alpha strike), they always cloak with 1HP left. So I hit the "Stealth Scan" power in their general area. By which time they're almost always too far away to even fire on. That's why -- they can immediately sprint away. Now I get it. LOL, just wow.

Said it before, will say it again. Comparable top notch gear/mods should be achievable by either PvE or PvP of equal effort, time, and accomplishment. Crafting should also allow (limited) top-notch gear.

Are Operatives the class that runs around cloaked, uncloaks long enough to kill someone w/ 2 or 3 knife hits, then runs away, rinse and repeat? You can try a DoT (assuming you're not already dead), but they might re-cloak or run around a corner before the charged attack fires off. You can drop the anti-cloak power (forget its name), but usually they're far out of range by then. Yeah, when I see that class, I don't even waste my time on them. It's like queuing with a bunch of level 20's against a Rakata-pack-injecting-Pre-Made. Why even bother?

Add to the Expertise nonsense, Pre-made vs PUG, and you'll REALLY screw over new lvl 50's.

Where did I say it did? People were talking like you had to rush to be 50 by now. That's false. (oh I get it -- this is irony -- you were trying to twist what I said, change the premise, just as the response you're citing said not to do! LOL, GOOD ONE!!!)

You said what I said was wrong. It wasn't. Unless we're now playing the "shift the goalpost" game of changing what I said, what you said, and what we were talking about. Which I didn't. If you're not 50 by now, it's because you play very little, you're not a very good gamer, you make a bunch of alts simultaneously, or you're trying to deceive yourself into pretending there's more content than there is by doing nothing and calling it "playing." There. Try and twist that around.

Right. So you play 1 hr a day. Don't complain about not being 50, or wonder why others already are.

Isn't it amazing, the kind of people that would try and limit what others do, when it in no way effects themselves? They're miserable people.

Agreed, since the first moments of playing in the first wave of EGA I knew this was an issue. There should be a screen-wide bar across the bottom, with 25-35 slots. Then I could bind ALL my immediately usable abilities to a single bar. All are hot-keyed. The current setup seems amateurish. Made for mouse-clicking, or something. Me, I'm always having to use extra keystrokes just to 'switch' to the upper or lower bar, then more keystrokes to hit powers on said bar.

I listened to every line of dialogue in every single quest I could get. Did all the Heroics I could do, and if I couldn't, went back once I hit 50 and did lower-lvl ones. Did many flashpoints. Sometimes explored the planets and enjoyed the atmosphere and design. Maxed crafting, did all the space missions. Dailies and purples on all equipment. Probably have 15 matching armor sets. I was still lvl 50 long ago. If a person isn't lvl 50 yet, they either play 1 hr a day, have a bunch of alts (and are apparently getting nothing done going in a bunch of directions at once), or are desperately lying to themselves, intentionally doing nothing, pretending there's more in the game than there is. I remember when STO released, those fanbois claimed how there was so much content at max level. What were they doing? Standing around in Quark's bar and RPing. (ie, doing nothing) The only way not to be 50 at this point is that you have no time to play, or you're making an intentional effort not to advance. (that includes making a dozen alts simultaneously)

So which of those are you?

If you're not 50 yet, you either play 1 hr a day, or you're not very good. Or you're one of those self-delusional fanbois (redundant, I know) that intentionally play slow and get nothing done, so as to pretend there's more to do than there really is.

Better than having 1 OP. I'm being serious. (Though obviously it would be good if all were useful)]

LOL at everyone who jumped on the Biochem FOTM bandwagon, BW is finally putting it in balance (arguably) and now you're getting what you deserve. What. You. Deserve. And anyone who doesn't think Rakata med packs and stacking of buffs makes no difference, you're either ignorant of the reality, or you're a liar, which is to say, you've either never fought anyone using it, or you're using it yourself, and butthurt you don't get your "I win" gimmick any more. As the cutesy kiddies say, "L2p"

Pretty much the same thing here. Whenever all the FOTM heroes who want easy kills finally jump to this class/tactic, it will get nerfed.

I like the individual combat... of both myself and from other players. I like the combat attacks and moves. Like that it's very Star Warsish... I like that pretty much any build can beat another at a given time. But I hate all the 'meta-' issue of TOR's PvP. Bracketing, pre-mades, Biochem, Expertise, forced Huttball, etc etc etc.