I see. I wasn't aware of that thanks. Changed spec 4 times yesterday between combat/watchman (combat was my leveling and 50-spec for quite some time). I have to say that even though the time--to-kill has been significantly reduced with 1.2 (for everyone), which is kinda against the watchman potential (being a dot relying spec), i still feel its more suited towards my playstyle. I am implementing more of MS lately so i have tweaked my spec a bit. I will update as soon as i finalize it.

I both agree and disagree with your post and that's why. First things first, i have as a main a Sentinel of full BM gear and a Commando Medic of 48 lvl so i am kinda touching on both sides. Pre 1.2 as a DPS,i could and would take down healers. It was certainly not an easy job, it required my full focus (depending on their skill) and a very considerable amount of time, which would increase exponentially as we moved from less mobile to more mobile healing classes (BH to Sorc to Ops). What i mean by mobile is that since movement/LoS is KING in PvP the less casttime-dependent (aka more mobile) the class the more effective it is (in PvP). Throw in a tank guard and you needed at least 2 DPS to fully lock down/kill the aforementioned healer. Another issue the less mobile healing classes had to endure was the extreme amount of knockbacks, pushbacks, stuns, interrupts that exist in this game (don't get me wrong everyone has to deal with that - but the effect is SO MUCH MORE for a casting-dependent class compared to a more instant-cast class). What less mobile healers had to compensate for, was their survivability as well as their healing effectiveness. It was a weird balance, but worked... a bit on the healer side, which needed toning down, that's why a nerf was called for. Healers shouldn't be immortal, nor the "center of attention" nor anything. However a carefull nerf was the proper approach - a nerf in steps, watching the results and going from there. What has currently happened is that the healing effectiveness both in terms of output and cost/effectiveness has been decreased (welcoming nerf), while at the same time the damage output of certain DPS classes have been increased, the amount of CC has remained the same as well as the mobility issues remain unchanged. On top of that the main nerf has occured in the less mobile healing classes, while leaving the mobile ones in a very good state. Again this only is extremely visible in PvP as in PvP the more you are stationary the less effective you are. The more you get interrupted/KBed/Stunned the less effective you are. When you have classes like the CM, quite justifiably named "turret healers" due to their heavy dependency on castable heals (our instants are extremely non-effective), you have practicaly performed a much more major nerf than what is visible by patch notes, due to the class'philosophy. To end this wall of text, my take is: Nerf heals, increase mobility. Perform nerfs in steps rather than 3ple (less heals, more cost, more DMG) nerfs at once. Nerf according to class gamestyle and not universaly. And that is coming from a main DPS. Yes...healers were OP...but now some of them are simply easy-mode.

Hey Canadian Well my reasoning behind inflammation is that Cauterize is part of my rotation either way and a focus spender i will use. The extra slow serves as both my main slow as well as means of maintaining my focus for damaging skills rather than investing it in a 12 second slow (not that i disagree with your tier change suggestion). Either way, between cauterize (with or without refreshed CD) and the short CD on Leap, the occasions where anyone has a chance to gain distance on me are extremely rare. On those occasions i Leg Slash. I also see you have Force Fade vs Focused Leap. What's your take on my comment above, regarding these two. Last, whats your reasoning behind the 1 point on Insight? Burn effects are physical, and we don't use Blade Storm that often as well. Cheers

Hey In my opinion you should get rid of Master Focus completely (since we are strictly talking about PvP here). Master strike is extremely situational on PvP (and is pretty much out of our rotation as Watchman). And to get Master Focus you have sacrificed 1 point on Close Quarters which practically nullifies your point blank Charge (which acts as your extra interrupt...and trust me its vital vs healers (or at least pre-healer nerf)). Now you have 1 extra point. Lets keep that. I would also make a switch between Force Fade and Focused Leap. The reason for this is dual. First of all Focused Leap is a welcoming extra Focus generator that allows you to (also for those that asked for rotation ) Leap (+4) > Overload (-3) > Zealous (+6) > Cauterize (-2) > Merciless (-5), while without it you are 1 focus short and need 1 extra Strike before your Merciless. Secondly, our Force Camo has been nerfed to 50% dmg reduction making the extra time/speed a much smaller investment compared to the benefits of Focused Leap - if it was still 100% that would have been an interesting discussion, alas its not. You are still 1 point extra, what i have done is put it on Steadfast to prepare for more accuracy dumping from gear as soon as i get my Ranked one (full BM now). For visualization purposes this is what i am running currently: http://db.darthhater.com/skill_calc/jedi_knight/sentinel/#::fe2f2efcf12e5fe11f19: Defensive Roll vs Jedi Crusader or 3/3 on Steadfast is debatable and needs further testing - i just enjoy pissing Focus/Rage Knights/Warriors off . That's my 2 cents.

What he said, to the letter.

Pretty much this (although i would be hesitant of the last sentence. In my case i will just add at the end "in my hands"). I have been in exactly the same situation. I leveled as combat and played combat extensively in lvl 50 WZs. I loved it, loved the control and i believe i had a very good grasp of the tree itself as shown by my dmg output and 1on1s. However when i decided to switch to Watchman as a try, even though i was seeing smaller numbers (at the time my Merc Slash hit for about 70% of what my Blade would) and i should have been getting less output, my damage saw an increase of 20%+ and i was just finding it easier and easier to kill people. And that was an immediate effect (exactly like OldxLady describes). However i don't disagree with Vodrin nor Falcatta. The only statement i can really make is that Watchman, in my hands was far superior to Combat (even though i do/did enjoy Combat greatly - more than Watchman). And i am quite a decent Sentinel (no need to go in SS and numbers mambo-jumbo, take it for what it is or not at all. Or join me in Scepter of Ragnos:P).

Thnx for the reply Vodrin, i appreciate it. Is this taken from your experience or do you have any mathcraft basis behind it (like a link or something)? Cheers

I have searched high and low for a definite answer to this question that plagues my mind but still i haven't managed to get a decent, evidence backed answer. Does anyone know / have a good idea of what accuracy % should we aim for with strictly PvP gear?. I currently reside around 97% with full champ +4 BM, gear and i have not witnessed any of my attacks missing. I am thus thinking of swapping some accuracy enhancements for cirt/power ones, but before that i would like to know what your experiences are, and if you have a valid theorycraft concerning accuracy strictly in the PvP setting. Cheers

In to drop my opinion on the self healing part: You cannot/should not remove the healing attributed to self-heal.. when i am playing my Commando Medic and i am focus fired by 3 enemies, i have to heal myself. Truth be told if the opposing team knows what their doing healers will for the majority of the WZ need to heal themselves. How is that not helping the cause? You are practically turning into a tank/target and give time to your DPS to kill them - which is practically the same as healing your DPS/Tanks when they are focus fired. The whole point is to keep the team alive and you are part of that team, no matter which tactic is used. That exploit needs to be adressed differently, don't ask for unfair/unsubstantiated solutions. On a side note: Thanks! It's great to receive some appreciation even on the forums!

Hey mate. Nice initiative. Are you using Joomla? And if so also rockettheme templates? I am also working with this setup so i can also lend you a hand site-wise if you need. On article writing and such i'll be happy to assist. And yes i will agree that the site should be sentinel/marauder themed as they are the same and it may attract more attention (post it on the marauder forums as well). Let me know with PM or reply here Cheers!

I find your reply rather amusing. You see, you call me a troll and proceed to say i whined about something (which i didn't), i claimed how hard done by i am (which i didn't). And then you proceed to assume i don't have the ability or the know-how. And yet i am the troll. Indeed rather amusing. Now, point where i complained that i am not happy. Point where i whined about how hard done by i am (i pointed out facts, i didn't comment on them,or that i am having issues with them or that i am not happy with the game - or even that i intend to quit or anything. These are all your assumptions, but completely groundless nonetheless) Oh, and while at it do you also have a fraps to provide with my playtime? That will also support your claims. Who's the troll again?

I believe you have some trouble distinguishing between the words "competence" and "balance", leading to this completely distorted view of what competitions are about - so let me clarify it for you. I will use a different example. In Weight Lifting you have brackets of total weight for the participants. Participants cannot exceed these brackets since then they move to another bracket. That happens because it will give them an unfair advantage. Now, the level of competence and training of these participants is evaluated within brackets of as much equal terms as possible. When you have a game, any game where competition takes place, you have to create the setting/terms where the competition will take place. That setting needs to be equal/fair to all the participants. The ability of the participant due to extra effort/skill is what will give him the edge, not the imbalance of the setting. In this case there is an unbalanced setting due to mirror class issues (i am talking about the undeniable ones, and not random QQing), as well as population issues (as well as WZ "bugs" - no the turrets are not facing anywhere, but still they HP of rep ships go down a few ticks faster) That has nothing to do with your ability to excel (by gear -which means time invested, or skill) within those brackets. It provides a broken/unfair (minor/major that is another topic) system that is unfair to begin with. Competition is all about a balanced setting. The imbalances come from your effort, not from the competition itself. Now there are many ridiculous claims for this imbalance but also a lot of valid ones. It only comes down to your ability to use a critical mind to not fully accept or fully disregard everything blindly.

Currently healing medals are severely gimped compared to DPS. This is a fact. Now let me list some more facts: -Yes, you can throw in a dot or hot and get assist. However this is not your role. Your pool is best utilized elsewhere if you see it from a strict "effect" perspective. The fact that you can, does not justify it as the optimal choice. -Yes you can KS another kill. However this is not your role. You are there to keep the guy that is killing the opponent alive. You can assist if the situation permits it, but honest to god how many times are you chilling instead of healing in a WZ setting. -Yes you can do some DPS instead of strictly healing. However this is not your role. And no, Bioware did not intend for healers to DPS - if they had, they would create a class like Shaman from WAR (look it up if you are unaware of its mechanics). The fact they have not supported equally the healing role in a PvP reward manner is a by-product of bad medal-design, not the intention. TL;DR The fact that you can DPS, doesn't make it your optimal role, and the fact that the rewards for healing are overlooked doesn't justify it. Healers should get equal rewards, for equal effort to DPSers and that is all they are asking for. Not extra, not extreme. Equal. I am not a healer, i am a DPSer (Sentinel), but i find the lack of PvP reward support for healers unjustified - thus all my MVPs go to healers either way. If BW is not rewarding them, i sure as hell will show my appreciation.

Ok seriously, excuse my interruption but... What is your point exactly? I mean...i don't know what other history you might have had with Spymaster specifically (and honestly don't care), but at least during this thread you have only put abstract labels or made claims backed up by thin air ("my logic is sound", "redundant", "i'm not going to quote" etc). I honestly fail to see any point and/or contribution to the discussion apart from a personal attack. Please clarify your point. Otherwise i guess the only word that comes to mind is.... Hmm..its "redundant".

I will have to disagree with you there. Since BW designed PvP in Warzones to give you experience and also designed the Warzones without brackets, its a clear choice for you, to level up by following this route (along others) during your leveling. The game was not advertised as a "Single player game till 50, then MMORPG!". It is a clear design choice and even that, is not the main complaint of the OP in the end (his opinion and totally entitled to it)

This! Finally someone has said it. (awesome posts Loekii, i agree with all of your points throughout this topic) What is so difficult to grasp? That a customer CAN and has the RIGHT to provide the reasons behind his canceling of a service? Do you have any other connection with the real world, apart from digital terms? Do you know in like....restaurants...those little boxes titled "complaint box"? Shall we get rid of them and dish on the people that found a fly in their food? I am also unsatisfied with BioWare for all the points made by Loekii and Dravinian. I am currently not as pissed as to unsub but that is mainly because i have my friends that i play with to keep me engaged. And if i finally unsub, i damn well should provide the reasons behind it, cause you know what? That is the only way to constructively change things (and maybe if they do they will regain their lost customer base - its a win/win situation).

No, as a matter of fact i greatly enjoy my sentinel (now lvl 43). I would however suggest Combat tree, for leveling at least. I currently am Combat tree and i have a very sustainable DPS accompanied by some great Focus regeneration. People also like the Watchman tree a lot, however i heard that it is best suited for end-levels as that is where it pays out the most (not personally tested it though). All in all, take a look at your rotations, accept the fact that without your full set of skills you shouldn't expect to beat higher level players (easily at least) even with the bolster system and read one of the many guides/suggestion posts out there concerning senties. I believe you will come to enjoy the class greatly, albeit its complexity.

Coming from Scepter of Ragnos myself, i find it interesting that a lot of names i am used to "inspect" in warzones for their good gear are included in the pics. I do consider it a form of exploiting, however i do see the problem with the system itself. I blame BioWare more than i blame the players, for an unfinished system, a system that with the announced changes will only become more imbalanced and force bigger gaps between the factions. I haven't hit 50 already but i do not intend to act this way (that is not why i chose a PvP server after all) - however i won't judge the people that take advantage of it in an extremely negative way, until the system is fixed and provides a workable/playable PvP environment). All in all, my biggest concern is that while the people that had the chance to gear up quickly like this will have no "effect" applied on them, the people that will join Illum after the patch will not have had the same chances, thus creating a "gap/chasm" between the two populations - and from that perspective only i could justify some kind of BioWare reaction to this. Always open to discussion, Aedun

OWPvP currently is not providing any reward at all. There are multiple discussions concerning the lack of rewards in OWPvP and the importance of addressing this (imho). An example can be found here, if you wish to follow the discussion: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=50161 Have fun PS: By OWPvP (Open World PvP) I mean non-instanced, mostly random encountered PvP, outside of combat zones (so yes..Ilum doesn't qualify).

The inability of people to grasp the concept of constructive criticism is mindnumbing. I completely agree with every-single-one of the points made by the OP. They are given in an objective manner, with the obvious intent to better the experience for everyone. That doesn't mean i do not enjoy playing the game. That doesn't mean i will cancel my sub. All you fanboys, valiant defenders of the honor of SWTOR can take a deep breath and sit back down. And maybe start listening to something more than your own voice. The game has issues PvP wise - and quite big ones. Most of these issues have already been acknowledged by BioWare themselves aswel (which shows professionalism and willingness to listen to the community - for link, look for Gabe's post on PvP). That may have not have happened if there were not people like the OP (and many others), to point them out in the first place despite the flames by the people that cannot handle criticism (which ironically enough don't have anything to gain from BioWare). All in all, progress and improvement, comes from identifying and pointing issues not by blindly supporting whatever is thrown at you. tl;dr Fanboys you are NOT helping, you are detrimental to the chances of having a great game.

Heinywb everything posted here is an opinion, this forum is not a scientific journal. Your fix is redundant, as is your attempt to troll.

And how exactly do you assume that people are not trying to get used to it? You have some statistics you would like to share? We are still here, discussing about this and playing the game aren't we? I believe that qualifies as "trying to get used to it". That however should not come in the way of discussing of ways to improve and built upon what i (and obviously many others) believe to be an incomplete system/mechanic/engine/younameit. And we do that by providing arguments as to what "not fluid as wow" means (you may go through the previous pages to validate that). If that is a phrase that horrifies you let me rephrase it: "It is not optimally fluid and responsive as a PvP engine should be to be able to provide a competitive environment." There.. No WoW to be found anywhere. All fixed. Edit: And by the way i also like that stuff are not WoW-like. That is why i left WoW, to experience something new. But that doesn't mean that i do not expect and wish for that experience to be optimal.

By tagging people in an absolute manner as a way to dismiss their arguments, does not strengthen yours, I am sorry. I can as well finish or start off by saying: Console-loving gamers will never ask for anything more than the gameplay of X-Y-X-B while watching their character performing a series of beautifully choreographed animations, and consider this a skill-based encounter. Am I offering a valid argument? No, but it looks serious enough to convince people I know stuff, right? As far as telling what happens in WoW (since you mentioned it), I do not know where you got the idea that you have to look at your UI, since as it has been mentioned multiple times before, there is a combination of sounds, visual (colors/effects) and telegraphic means, to let you know what happens at your character at every possible second without taking your eyes off him. That is however not the case here, not in any functionally acceptable manner. I do enjoy the animations greatly and I find them the best that I have seen in an MMO. That, when I am chilling killing easy monsters and enjoying the scenery. When I am fighting in a competitive environment (as is PvP), I don’t stop to enjoy the show, I am trying to be as effective as possible, since that is the nature of a competitive environment. If I just wanted to watch cinematic battles, I would continue playing The Witcher (great animations) or any other game that requires a total of 5 different buttons, pressed in a specific manner by Blinking Letters on my screen. And finally, anyone that mentiones this issues does not take time out of his daily schedule to hate BW or SWTOR. Its because we like this game, that motivates us to indicate these issues, to be able to have the best possible experience out of it.

I believe you should add the following thread in your OP: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=53812 It has a very nice discussion going in there, and i think it falls under the category of Game responsiveness during PvP.

Thanks Livianicen for this response, i was going through the whole topic and was preparing a similar one, to what was a very well written but totally void of meaning and/or perception post. I couldn't agree more with you on all these points, as well as with the points of the OP (who has by the way remained quite civilized and patient with a multitude of trolling attempts). On topic, this is not an issue only for the part of people that have PvPed, or were veteran WoW PvPers. This issue is global. You might not see it now, or you might never see it, but that by itself doesn't make it right and/or acceptable. Its like never having experienced chocolate (which by statistics 90% of the human population enjoys).. you do not know how it tastes so you are fine with the absence of it, but once you get to know it, you will certainly miss it if it ain't there. Anyway, i have made a reply in a similar post here http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=50161&page=7 since i believe PvP issues are not only combat related, but also the overall attention to the PvP mechanics and setting is extremely limited. The issues in SWTOR PvP span from the engine design and combat responsiveness to the integration of PvP as a game-choice at all, and all that it entails. And i believe, it is of paramount importance to SW:TORs longevity to address these issues as soon as possible. And no my dear PvErs and trolls out there, the PvP population is not a minority (and even if it was most of these issues do and will affect you as well). Again thanks to the OP and all the constructive dialogue participants here - i would very much appreciate a dev response on this topic though.