Well in the end we might not have been that much away in terms of opinions. Nonetheless, concerning your points on objectivity though I would like you to revisit my earlier posts, where i did point out that: -"Don't get me wrong, i so far enjoy the game greatly, but as an addicted PvPer i find the systems to be lacking to say the least" -"I do have the utmost faith in Bioware to meet these expectations" -"I am not here to blame anyone, one can only have so much time to polish everything" All in all, if it's just a matter of "un-polished" vs "lacking" i guess we are on the same page. And that's what this post is all about. Point out that "They do not meet our expectations at this point in time". Either way we cannot really do anything more than that

I am with you partly on that. Items should not be rewarded. Titles (lets say via Valor, or OWPvP specific titles and what-not) would be a good incentive. A system similar to the Old Olympic Games philosophy, where fame was the only gain. Nothing game-breaking, you can call it "vanity" item/reward. But some form of rewarding is required. And that's just touching the rewards part of the whole PvP-related issues.

You don't need to break down something for me to attempt to validate your point, i perfectly understood your position the first time. My opinion stands nonetheless for the following reasons: Griefing is completely irrelevant as an argument since you know exactly what you are signing up for when you choose a PvP server (nothing that could provoke griefing would take place in a non-PvP server). In case you misclicked, or didn't know...no problems. The game itself pops up a warning sign, to make sure you do. So, no excuses there. Yes, i am a person who enjoys PvP. That is why i chose a PvP server. The sole difference between a PvE and PvP server is the ability to do OWPvP without mutual consent (turning on the PvP flag). Those that "do not" enjoy PvP and enjoy it "in clearly defined areas such as WZ's" have the option to play on a PvE server and not a single part of their experience is diminshed. I on the other hand, who enjoy OWPvP, and signed up for (by choosing a PvP server) should have the chance to see that choice manifest. This is not an overall discussion of we vs you (PvP vs PvE). There are servers for that, where OWPvP won't bother you without consent so no problems on griefing or anything of that kind. But even there, when you choose to PvP you should do this, on a PvP system that is thought off, and polished as the rest of the game. TL;DR The point of this discussion is how unpolished the PvP is, not wether PvP as a feature provokes griefing or not. PS: when i was referring to a strict set of features, i wasn't pointing at an absolute set that needs to be met everywhere. More that the set of features that is lacking is small rather than huge - but its lacking is obvious.

You see this as a design choice, yet you hope for them to change it in the future. I don't see how these two relate. If its a design choice, its how they want it and i don't see any reason for them to change it then. In my view its part of an overall un-polishness/overlooking of a strict set of features (like the AH i mentioned). I am not here to blame anyone, one can only have so much time to polish everything, but in my view industry standards should first be met in every aspect before adding extras, not overpolish certain aspects and overlook other ones.

I do not understand how it is even possible for a polished MMO of 2011 (practically 2012), to be repeating launch mistakes of previous MMO launches. The least i expected from SWTOR was to build upon the existing and possibly make its own, new mistakes. I certainly am not inclined in waiting again 3-6 months until old MMO mistakes (like 0 reward for world PvP) are repeated and taken care off like in past MMO launches. For the time that SW:TOR comes at, and the amount of marketing it received, i am afraid it doesn't have the grace period to repeat (and i am only talking about old issues here) these kinds of mistakes and shortcomings. Expectations have been raised greatly as the MMO genre has matured over the past 7 years, and PvP in SW:TOR is currently seriously overlooked. Don't get me wrong, i so far enjoy the game greatly, but as an addicted PvPer i find the systems to be lacking to say the least (and don't get me even started on the terrible, just terrible Auction House). I do have the utmost faith in Bioware to meet these expectations, but i cannot stress enough the urgency to at least meet the industry standards on some aspects (and again... i am talking about very specific issues here - it is beyond debate that SW:TOR has raised the bar in a great number of other features. This is mostly PvP related).