That's the Kitru way. I tried explaining him to chill out before, to no result. He's quite often right though (not always), but lacks politeness. I plan on telling his mama if he continues )

Nah, I checked on both sides believe me, and nobody has them (I'm on Battle Meditation, Republic side btw, and there are only a few guilds beside mine able to farm DG/Hazmat gear on this server)

Problem is, they only have two ways of doing that : either up our threat (which they already did a few monthes ago), or up our dps, and that would cause an immense uproar in the PvP crybabies community. For now, as a Shadow, I'm comfortable with my threat generation per se, and I know I can taunt on a regular basis if needed (NiM Stormcaller for example, as we're a tad short on dps and my aggro ho's need to pull some massive damage right at the beginning of the fight)

Unfortunately, nobody on my server seems to be able to craft any tank mod/enh for the moment. Plenty of dps stuff, but nuthin' for the meat shields

Problem is, there are ABSOLUTELY NO low end/high abs enhancements on any DG stuff, and NO shadow mods. The only high Abs mod I got came from a hazmat headgear I luckily dropped on HM Asation. Which make our optimization too much random-dependant for my taste. Or did I miss something ?

Happens to me on a regular basis too. And I'm not only talking about PvP, but sometimes in PvE too (Drouks in EC for example). Not the first thread about this issue unfortunately, and BW still does nothing about it...

Thanks, I'll look into it

Nice math And yes I'm at 37% crit like you. Do you know a functionnal sim for gunnery commando ? Methodical's one doesn't take us into account, and it's the only one I know.

Sorry, my goal wasn't to show off, and I shouldn't have linked the second parse . I simply wanted to point at the very low proc rate and therefore damage output on gunnery, while a balance shadow (for example) would get significantly (something like 18k, I can ask a friend of mine for some parse logs if you don't believe me ) better results.

Dudes, I wanna thank you a lot for your hard work and this civil, troll-free thread. This is rare and precious If I may contribute, I'd like you to consider that a gunnery commando, due to it's relatively low rate of fire, is not really suited for a 30% proc relic, imho. Statistics aside, I've been bullying the training dummy quite a few times these days, only to realize the DG relic only procs roughly 40-50 times on a 6min fight. Maybe I'm unlucky with the RNG, but that gives me only 11-13k damage output. This is the kind of parse I got with an EWH +120 power and a DG proc relic : http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/combatlog/3bec6f32-b0a2-42f1-aa4c-f36b6431f65f/player/1#d=0,t=1,b=1 As you can see, 360/42 makes a proc every 8.57secs, whereas my DoT specced guildies (balance shadow and hybrid GS) have it really close to 6 secs. I rarely got significantly better results, so I decided to switch to EWH/clickable DG power relic for a way better damage output. This is what I get (min-maxed full 61 with 3 63 armorings and 5 63 mods) : http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/combatlog/5a56ecad-927b-48b5-9f01-aec9990cb4a1/overview#d=0,f=1,t=1,b=1 (of course i have way better crit ratio on the second parse, but nonetheless i'm consistently over 1800 dps on a 6-6.5min run now)

Well, actually, I've been fooling around with the relics these days, and realized the proc relics are kind of crappy for gunnery commandos, simply due to our quite slow rate of fire. A balance shadow and a sabotage/dirty fighting hybrid GS guildies of mine both get something like 18-20k damage output with their proc relics, being DoT specced, on a 6min dummy run, while i'm getting a mere 11-12k. 30% proc chance every 1.5 secs, except during FA or plasma grenade, is ridiculous on a single mob/boss fight, so i switched to an EWH +120 power and a DG +350 clickable, for very nice results.

Like I said, obviously

Don't worry, we'll obiously have a whole new tier of talents to spend our points on.

We also have a serious issue during Operator IX fight, as raid members kept losing obtuses randomly, with absolutely no reason.

Totally agree too. I think it's safe to talk about a consensus here in the gunnery community.

Ok guys, i'm gonna throw a weird idea here, but a gunslinger friend of mine did some math that shows replacing around 15% of his cunning for aim is a net bonus. Something to do with "logarithmic" (not sure, don't laugh ^^) progression of stat bonuses. The guy's serious, and now does a horrible amount of dps (2170+ on a 6min dummy), not even in full 63 gear (got two DG guns though). My GS guildmates followed his advice and saw a dps boost too. So the idea here is : would it work for Troopers too ? Is there any math nerd around here willing/able to do som sims (as Methodical didn't implement their SimCraft for gunnery commandos before moving back to WoW) and sort this out ? Serious answers only please EDIT : Got my friend online, apparently the aim gearing only works for Sharpshooter spec, as Aim enhances distance damage and cunning boosts tech damage. As we gunnery do roughly 50% distance and 50% tech, I don't think replacing aim for cunning would be optimal. But maybe Assault spec should think about it though...

Shield is useless against force/tech attacks, but very useful vs ranged/melee. So like in PvE it all depends on the enemy you're facing. Pop your KW against lolrauders, snipers, mercenaries, forget it when facing sorcerers or pyrotechs for example. Anyway, except for 1vs1, any tank's survivability can only be guaranteed by a strong healer, so don't forget to protect yours

Are you using the new (5th and 6th) quickbars ? I'm having trouble on all my toons with the 5th one, skills keep disappearing every time I enter a new instance. Not all of them, but some...

Don't totally disagree with OP here, but we must nonetheless applaud BW for (imho) a graphically splendid operation with very creative mechanisms. Anyway, just throwing an idea here : if we are fighting a common ennemy, why don't we have the opportunity to buid cooperative 8 rep/8 imp raids ? That would be fun

Don't forget the additional 30% armor pen on HiB and full auto. Don't know if this have an impact on the procs. Anyway, A huge thank you to all this troll-free thread's contributors

I'm a full WH/EWH shadow tank (a class considered OP by many people and I can kill a reasonably well geared maraudeur ONLY if ALL my cds are up. With my full WH/EWH commando, i barely scratch his skin if i get his attention. Any other class will have great difficulty dealing with him. That's a well known FACT. Period.

YES IT CAN. Could you once in a while consider your way isn't the ONLY way ? I've used this opening rotation since the first shadow tank revamp (1.2 or something) and it WORKS. Period. And I too have some 1900+ dps in my guild. Only times I do otherwise is when i know i'll need my taunt for some other use (add picking, tank swapping, etc.) And btw, Force Breach does not (for an unknown reason) consume Force Potency charges.

Sorry guys, taunt CAN be a good opener, especially on bosses with short enrage timers. My standart opening rotation is force pull > taunt > force potency > project > force breach > slow time > DS > project > mass taunt > TK throw And no way i'm losing my boss to the serious aggro ho's i've got in my guild

Considering P2-3 of TFB, It looked like damage taken on the outer rim of platforms (i.e. 1 through 8 on dulfy's schematic http://dulfy.net/2012/09/26/the-terror-from-beyondterror-from-beyond-operation-boss-guide/ ) is force/tech, while inner rim is physical. Can anyone confirm that ?

That's extremely lame