It's not "greed" exactly... Whether we like it or not, part of the games revenue comes from the Cartel Market (I believe you are often quoted as saying this). I believe the impact had the potential of really hurting that source of revenue. So it needed to be closed. The game does need to make money... everyone (me included) uses the link that shows BW earned 167 Million in 2013 (data from one of your favorite sources)... what they don't discuss are the expenditures in that time... so 167 Million was not all profit... the game is profitable now (or at least was... I think the latest EA/BW public filing made reference to overall earnings at EA were offset by losses in 3 games (one of which was SWTOR)... Here is that link... search "Star Wars" its the 4th hit. How much of the 181 Million hit was to SWTOR, and if it is still making a profit remain are unknown. So again.. its not necessarily "greed"... its part of doing business... if anything, I think they should get credit for giving the rep tokens out via the CSM (these were also locked up inside packs). So they did give a little...

Oh I completely agree... it's not a scam... it is people failing to read... That being said... the simplest solution (IMO) is to adjust the sort. Those who have never been "scammed", know this already... and its how we use the GTN. No obviously, there is an issue where people can not remember to do this... so just make it the default... We save 2 clicks, they save credits...

Completely support this. Its strikes a nice balance on the machine... still useful, but not so useful that everything else becomes secondary.

I agree that a good QOL change (that would resolve most of the "I got scammed" threads would be to just have the default sort set to Price Per Unit (Low to High). This is probably the simplest of all solutions presented. Out of curiosity, does anyone know what the default sort is?

Sorry... but why not? Don't get me wrong... I think they over-nerfed the Junk/Scrap/Parts... but "changes accordingly" could mean a small reduction... or a nuke from orbit reduction... They reviewed the data... so it was not inline with their expectation, and changed the drop rate "accordingly" for what their intended purpose was. Eric did not lie... the machines weren't "bugged" you clicked, it spun, it awarded or failed. Since BW is the only one who could determine what is and is not an "exploit"... It wasn't (as he said). They reviewed the data (took a look at it) and determined changes were necessary... and made the changes. Like I said.. I think there could have been some middle ground on the junk/scrap/parts. CM Certs... I don't have an issue with. Could communication been better... Most definitely

This is the one area I understand why they nerfed as much as they did. This could, and most likely would, hurt future pack sales. Like it or not... thats was an incentive to buy more packs. Rep and Certs (for the Rep Vendors). Since they essentially made the need to gather rep pointless... they still needed an incentive to purchase the pack... so (in my opinion), the drop of the rep tokens was meant to make you feel you were "half way there", all you needed was X more certs... so you would be willing to buy additional packs hoping for the certs you needed to get that rep item. I am not saying I agree with this... just how I see why they nerfed the certificates. This, even greater than the in game economy, is why things were nerfed. Real world dollars were at stake... Thats my take at least.

While I did expect a change in the drop rates of the CSM. I do think they took it a little far in terms of the Jawa Junk (and Scrap/Parts)... i think there could have been a "middle ground" reached. But no need to rehash the argument here. They aren't intending on changing the rates Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v3VKBktqKKs @ Abt 21:00 Now the Cartel Certificates... I am not at all surprised were nuked. Those came from Packs themselves, no other mechanism for getting them). This "could/would" impact Pack sales... as it is an incentive to buy more packs (want that nifty rep item, you need 10 certs. I don't think they cared about the rep itself as much (obviously)... but the certificate... that I understand why they cared... it had the potential to drastically hurt future sales... Not saying this is good or bad, just a reality.

Evidently, their final decision was made on 1/23 or 1/24. From Dulfy:

They said 3.1 for the fix on this

I like this idea... but perhaps simplified just slightly (similar to gathering nodes) A simple X number of pulls applies a debuff that just makes the machine unusable until the debuff falls away. Lets say 10, 20, or 50?

Just not a fan LA... i think there are easier solutions than this.

On the face of the idea... it sounds reasonable. Having the Mat BoL seems easy enough, the mechanic exists in system today. The piece, I think, would add complexity is the BoL for the crafted equipment from those mats. Essentially, you would need to duplicate every schematic in the game, changing the recipe... and then duplicate every possible crafted item piece (to set the BoL/BoP Accordingly). Ultimately, tho... I don't know how much (if any) real impact this would have. The people crying foul about the crafting system today... generally don't craft. They choose not to craft (preferring to buy their items... they just think the items are over priced). I believe those that use Crafting and Resource collecting as an income source would take some hit (if people decide to just craft it themselves). Seems like a lot of work, where some possible adjustments to the drop rates on the CSM, and the crit rate on crew missions would solve the same problem. It's not bad.... just think it is a complex solution to an easy problem. Doing some adjustments on the other two would accomplish the same goal IMO.

Single crafter does not need to collect all the materials themselves... again guilds can do this, alts can do this... or theu can be bought on the GTN. As far as all the hilts... depending on the hilt in question (is it Comm purchasable)... that particular character may not gear themselves, but purchases gear with comms for the sole purpose of RE'ing the hilts and barrels and crafting the items. Is it possible the person, or people with that person, exploited. Sure ... its possible. Is it possible that they didn't... yes its possible. Because they are selling high end gear does not make them an exploiter. Thats why people keep asking for proof... its possible the person did, and its also possible they did not. In the end, you can not prove they did... nor can any one prove they didn't, with the possible exception of BW. I can tell you this though.. I have taken part in raid groups that have cleared the content (Legitimately)... if people have cleared the content legitimately... then it is possible that a legitimate crafter was part of that group. That their team/guild fund them with mats to craft and sell the item as a way for the guild to build resources...

Well... this PARTICULAR crafter may have used the exploit, or their guild may have. Or perhaps they purchased all of the mats from the GTN (not cheap btw to purchase all the materials in order to craft). Perhaps as part of a way to finance the guild all mats are gathered by the team and donated to this crafter to make and share the profits. Could there be some crafters that abuse the system... sure. But making a blanket statement that all "Great Grand and Wonderful High End Crafters" do this... is a fallacy. If you don't think the item is worth what it is posted for... don't buy it... OR learn to make it for yourself.

Spiritinblack is absolutely correct... First and foremost have fun doing whatever in game you enjoy... if you aren't having fun earning the credits... then well... the credits can't replace the enjoyment. Both Dailies and Crafting are good sources of credits... Crafting however takes a lot of patience and lead up to get to the higher end items and also requires... but ultimately, you can (keyword is CAN) make more credits than doing dailies. It takes research and commitment, and a fair amount of playing the GTN to see what people are buying, what sells the best... what doesn't sell etc. You can craft a lot of items... some sell very well... some... not so much. Like Spiritinblack, I don't choose a single path... I mix it up... but beyond all else... I make sure I enjoy what I am doing.

For once we agree... Crafters and Resource gathers deserve to earn on providing the services they provide. We didnt actually disagree on this point in previous threads...

Slot machine bypassed craftesr? How in the world do you get there? You had to be a crafter to make the most use out of the mats... if anything it helped crafters. Materials were available at a a lesser rate... cost to craft dropped. Now, RESOURCE sellers... that rely mainly on Crafters to earn their credits... yes... they got hit hard. But they are NOT crafters... they are suppliers to the crafters. For those who think that Crafters have been gouging the players for years... I suggest you level a crafter, or several for that matter in the different diciplines... learn all the schematics, upgrade those schematics (to be able to craft the item everyone wants), and earn/buy the mats required to actually craft the item. Oh don't forget about the companions... you better start working on that max affection... takes a while, and there is only so much story... so be ready to start forking over creds for gifts. Dont forget you need to gear yourself... some cschematics can only be obtained from loot drops from ops... really good stuff will be in the HM versions... oh and re-engineering... You might want to start praying to the RE-Gods that they bless you with a lucky streek on RE'ing that Hilt you got... otherwise you are starting over. After you have done all that, please come back and share your experience... and let us know what you think your time and effort are worth. If you are paying a crafter for something, you are paying not only for their cost for the item... but the time they invested in honing that crafting skill... and you are paying for the convenience of not having to do it yourself. I don't even believe the Resource Gatherers are responsible... with any supply chain, people want to make a profit... they have to have a reason to farm mats, run endless crew missions and etc. Then take into account that people actually (gasp) want the item that was crafted... want it enough to pay for it. You say the crafters have gouged you? Then craft it yourself... come back and tell us how much you spent to learn to craft that 192 Hilt... vs what it is selling for on the GTN. Are you willing to invest the time to craft it yourself? Then welcome to Crafting... there are many guides on how to level your skills, which companions to use for optimal crit rate (dont forget to make sure they are all at max affection!). Best of luck! Otherwise... if its too expensive... don't buy it... Wait for the price to drop... if it doesn't... then others value the item more than you do. Edit: Please note, that I do believe there are some who take advantage of the market... and their game is about making as many credits as possible... but thats SOME... not all...

OP, I think what you laid out was reasonable... thoughtful, and attempts to find a middle ground that takes all points into consideration. Therefore, I utterly reject your ideas No seriously... I think you did a good job trying to reach the middle ground between all involved, while retaining value in each source of mats. Well done sir.

See this is why, more than complaints on the threads, that the slots got nerfed.. I highly doubt that they wanted the drop rates to be such that people could earn the certs (only gotten from packs) to be earned at the rate the machine was dropping them... it would be a disincentive to buy packs at all. I am not saying thats good or bad... just saying, in general, that didn't make sense to me (have an item that would remove one of the reasons people buy packs at all. Cartel Certs)

You are probably very correct here... that was likely the initial intent (Similar to the resource nodes decorations). However, BW backed themselves into this mess... they released it with insanely high drop rates (as much as I loved the rates... I could see it was too high)... 1 stack of chips would net me more purple mats than a days worth of crew missions... They doubled down saying it was not bugged... not an exploit.. but would look at the rates. So a lot of people thought... ok its a little high (and honestly, if people didn't ... they were fooling themselves), but its worth the investment to buy one. So, like others, I expected a change... what that change ended up being is (IMO) a complete overreaction. It may be that this is the rate they had intended all along... to make it a novelty as you mention. If that is the case... then they should have said that all along. Perhaps the purpose of the machine was not to be on par with crew missions, nor compete with them at all. Nor to lessen the pack sales (people wanting Rep previously had to get it from Packs only, so if they really wanted that Revan Mask... they needed to buy enough packs for the proper rep level, not just click a box 200 times). Had Eric's comment in his initial post on this topic (the one replying to the concerns on whether or not the machine was bugged/exploit) was to say something along the lines of: Much different reaction would have occurred. But, that is not what he said (or at least it is not what a lot of people read/gleened from his comments).

As much as I don't want to see the cost of mats rise back up... I can't agree with you here. Items posted to the GTN either sell, or don't sell at the price posted. If they don't sell, the item price will drop the next time the seller posts it... until it reaches the point that someone believes the cost is in balance with the benefit. You also have the supply and demand issue. If something is in high demand, highly scarce... it will go for a premium because people are willing to spend more to have it. However, if there is a flood of the item, and every seller wants to sell theirs first... they price their wares lower than their competitors in order to win the same. In a way, there is a cap already... the cap is you. If you do not believe that the price asked is worth the value of the item... don't buy the item... As far as mats go... the GTN is a convenience and expedience thing... but certainly not required. There is absolutely nothing stopping you from crafting today... except your own unwillingness to do so. There are many guides out there that can tell you exactly what you need to do to gain skill in , and excel at crafting. Which crew and gathering missions to pair with what crafting skill. Again, as much as I do not want to prices rise up again... I do not think it fair to call either the Resource Collectors or Crafters "gougers". Since each and every player has a means to craft whatever is craftable... you are paying for the convenience of not having to do the learn the skill, re-engineer items to learn schematics (or improve schematics you already know), gather the materials and so on. Don't get me wrong, I was excited about the slots, as it opened up another avenue for acquiring mats.. as a lot of my crafting is done not for sale... it was a god send for me. As much as I liked the drop rate at launch... when they said it had to be looked at, and after I ran a stack of chips through... I knew it did need adjusted... My main gripe (and yes I went off the deep end yesterday wanting a refund) was not that it needed an adjustment (I could see that, as others said it eliminate the need for crew missions entirely and negated the time people took to advance in their crafting skill and companion affection (not entirely cheap by the way)). It absolutely needed an adjustment... but I think that adjustment went too far... One extreme to the other, instead of finding a good balance.

You cant have it both ways... the rewards cant favor one action over the other... otherwise we end up exactly where we are now. I, also, wouldn't discount peoples willingness to stand for hours clicking a box. I, like yourself, couldn't do this... not my idea of fun. But others have... by posts in the forums, there are people who literally spent thousands of rolls. I think one poster said he did it for 8 straight hors... others click while watching tv... and of course you have the bots. We aren't on different sides here... but if ANY change favors the slot over other methods it is doomed to fail... Its not meant to replace crew skills... its meant (or rather should have) as a viable alternative to crew skill missions. So if thats the goal... the drop rate would need to be adjusted low enough that for the same approximate cost per mat is the same. Anything else... and the argument starts all over. Edit: See I wouldn't/couldn't do the 3-4 runs of Rishi slicing either (hence I would use crew missions).. or the slots if it was approximate same return.

Well its a choice... you can stand at the slot... or run missions... but either choice should award approximately the same in the same period of time... for approximately the same credit cost. I am no statistician.... but I am betting there are those around here who could do those figures. I know there are figures on Crit% and Cost Pr Mat from crew missions etc... take the costs, and time and you should have your drop rate. Edit: The crew skills calculation should be at 0 affection... or some midrange number (not top affection) to keep some purpose to maxing affection).

I think this is a matter of math. They wanted to provide an alternate source for the Grade 11 mats.. That is a good thing. The slot machine, as released, provided an overabundant source of those mats.. Bad thing. Adjusting the drop rate to make the slot machine an absolute horrible source for the mats... Bad thing. The devs had a base point of comparison for dropping purple mats... they should have looked at the crit rate on the crew skill missions... took an average all grade 11 purple mat drops via crew missions, and adjusted the drop rate in the slot accordining (adjusting for time). I'm not saying make one better than the other... put the two on equal footing. Adjust the drop rate of the Jawa Junk (adjusted for time) to be roughly the same as a person running a crew mission with 0 affection, and no companion bonus for getting a single purple mat. Someone did the math on the drop rate/cost for Midlithe crystals... time invested, cash invested etc. That should have been used as the base for determining the drop rate via the slot machine. It provides exactly what BW had originally intended... another source of grade 11 mats. But did not favor any one source. All existing sources were still valid. Results: Increased access to Grade 11 Mats Crew Skill Missions still viable Some reduction in GTN costs (more sources = more availability), but not flooding the market