I'm an operative, I don't know how snipers beat maras but evidence I've seen from both the forums and in game show snipers consistently winning straight 1v1s and shutting them down extremely well in warzones (more important from my point of view). I don't care (I used it as what I thought was an obvious example, I may be proved wrong) if one can beat the other, but until you actually provide solid proof (camo in, choke sos, whatever you do) I will discount your comments. State what and how these counters win it for you, I severely doubt the sky will fall if you tell us something all good maras should apparently already know. Saying "they lose because I know they lose" certainly helps the discussion Apologies to the OP, any post with marauder in it will get sidetracked in the pvp forum.

In the absence of any actual proof to show maras beating snipers, I will ignore your statement. Feel free to say how though, it isn't very hard to research in this game. I'd agree with the statement about there not really being hard counters though, there are a few but swtor seems to give most acs a chance against others. They exist, but not as much of a problem.

I'd disagree completely, but regardless you have proven his point about hard counters, the only question now is what is a counter to what. Unless mthe marauders on my server are horrible (I severely doubt that), snipers have the clear advantage in a one on one. Debilitate on UD, roots on cover pulse and leg shot, massive burst, flashbang to regain range and immunity to ravage make them the clear victor. That said, I don't play either class so my tactics of how to play it may be off.

He's actually spot on. A hard counter is where one class cannot beat another assuming both are of equal skill, something that will always be present to an extent with multiple classes. Note that spec differences may mitigate this somewhat. Examples of hard counters: Snipers to marauders Marauders to mercs Madness sorcs to operatives (assuming they survive/don't get hit by hidden strike+burst) Most dps against most tanks You've missed the point, it doesn't mean every class can counter everyone else, it means some class can't beat others. So you're statement about a guardian being unable to beat a sent actually proves his point. In response to the OP, a marauder would certainly be a fun choice. The story is excellent, and the class mechanic and skills make it very enjoyable. Bear in mind that marauders are considered one of the top classes atm so if you rolled one you may have to change your playstyle if the class gets a serious nerf. I'd personally prefer other classes to get buffed up, but Bioware seems to favour nerfs over this.

You do realise this thread will just get deleted again right? Regardless, a basic knowledge of the class probably helps before you start a 'debunking false ideas thread'. While you have a point, using blatantly wrong information as part of your arugment shows either ignorance or deception. For those of you who didn't read the last thread, he claimed marauders had a 75% self heal... While you will ignore the points that hurt your argument and attack those that suit it, I will respond anyway (bored ) Point 1: Marauder Cooldowns Yes marauders have a lot of cooldowns, some of which are very powerful. However, if cooldowns were the sole determinant of a class' worth, operatives would be the worst pvp healers when they're actually the best (ignoring the broken bubble sorc). Other classes make up for a lack of cooldowns with other traits, for instance a pyrotech can do the most burst damage in the game and more cooldowns would make it ridiculously op. I personally believe other classes should get more cooldowns (and get rebalanced to take account of this) as more useful abilities can only make classes more fun, while raising the skill cap. Point 2: Undying Rage UD is obviously powerful, there's no point in having a cooldown that does nothing. As stated earlier, UD should be used just before death (with exceptions) to give time for healers to get you back up. In a 1v1 situation, this will often win the marauder the battle. This however is irrelevant, 1v1s do not decide class balance, UD should only be considered in a group situation. In a group, you generally swap targets when your original victim pops a cooldown (unless you can burn him down) and swap back when it's over, so UD is no different to any other decent defensive in this regard. It is admittedly strong for soloing nodes, which is why attackers/defenders must take account of it. Force shroud's longer duration combined with not using 50% hp make it a very strong cooldown. You seem to be obssessed with using FS just before death, which is the absolute wrong time to use it. Unlike UD, FS should be used so you don't take damage, rather than just before death. A 40% defense cooldown gives you a 60% chance of death at 1 hp, but extends the fight far longer is used when you're near full. I don't rank these two as they're for entirely different situations. Point 3: Disadvantaged melee This was a major concern before 1.4, LI, EC, KP etc, all favoured ranged dps. To counter this, melee classes got more cooldowns (dps jug, mara, sin). Powertechs didn't as they weren't considered melee dps by bioware at the time. PvP however, is certainly easier on melee due to LoS, ccs, and class balance. The main concern for pvp isn't that marauders are op, but that ranged are so easy to shut down with interupts. I would argue sorcs and mercs need to be rebalanced for pvp with the addition of something that protects against interupts. Point 4: DPS I'm going to assume this is a pve point. Powertechs are actually the top damage potential class in the game at the moment, although marauders are close behind. Maras, pts, mercs and snipers are generally pretty close and others can do very well, though less common. Melee should always have slightly higher dps on dummies to account for movement in the fight, although a marauder's leap reduces this need somewhat.

Thanks everyone for coming, was heaps of fun and can't wait till next time

A few of us are there now, afk while waiting, more will come when it starts.

We're raiding from 7:30 unfortunately, so 32 of our guys will be out. We can put together a team if you guys decide to start earlier, or will try and make a later date.

We may be a bit late due to our Nightmare Pilgrim run, but will certainly be there

Mondays, Fridays or Saturdays suit us, happy with whatever works

Those stats are pretty much perfect for pvp, a final bit of optimising would be to get two BM armorings in the pve shells to get your expertise up to 1200, although you'd still do well even if you didn't. Hehe, thanks, something to do while I wait for a pvp pop on my dead server

We can make: Advanced Deft Mod 27 Advanced Aptitude Mod 27 Advanced Artful Mod 27 Advanced Agile Mod 27 Advanced Adept Enhancement 27 Advanced Initiative Enhancement 27 + some others

Not at home so I can't recall how I had my gear exactly for askmrrobot. Basically, crit remains largely the same (350 crit rating and stacked skill augments), take two healer war hero implants (the one with alacrity) and stack surge enchancements on the rest of your gear. Don't worry too much about custom pvp bracers and belt (use 58 or 61 pve ones if you have 1200 expertise) as the elite war hero ones will probably be moddable like the dreadguard versions. The grind that pvp gear takes means it's hard to totally optimise gear, so you're generally aiming at around 40% crit and 78% surge with about 100-150 alacrity for normals and moments when you get time to cast underworld medicine. If you don't care about how your gear looks, pick up two pve shells and stick your pvp mods and armorings (not war hero armourings, that'll overule the set bonus) in them to help with your aoe, 4 piece bonus for both sets isn't that great. However, with the new elite war hero gear, this will probably become obsolete

He's not trying to defend the resolve system, merely asking you guys to use accurate figures in your complaints against it. Saying you were stunned for a mathematically impossible time doesn't help your case.

These numbers seem about right, population strongly favours the imp side.

If you look in the wishlist section of my askmrrobot profile you'll see my pvp gear (needs a bit of updating so hopefully others can link theirs). For pvp, you generally want more crit and surge as you'll spend most of the time running away, meaning most of your healing with come from your instant casts. While my server (Master Dar'Nala) is small, I'd say I'm one of the top 3 pvp operative healers on the server (I naturally think I'm the best, the others disagree ). Heal numbers don't really help (my record is 960k, I've never had a nice stalemate that others have used to get 1 mil+), I'll usually average 800-1100 hps depending on the skill of who's shutting me down (overall in a match, downtime included). Against good players, you'll probably have someone focusing you so staying alive long enough to heal is crucial. For PvE I'll average about 2100 hps (varies depending on nature of the fight) and usually beat our optimised sorc in TFB. So, I think I know what I'm talking about, others may disagree Have to say I'm looking forward to 1.5 and the free respecs! For pvp, never take medscreen. Unless you're up against lower skilled players, you'll almost always have someone attacking you (one hit from a marauder will pop it ). The lower cooldown on dirty kick will save your life so many times (interupts ravage, stuns pts so you can run away, etc). My main tip for pvp as a smuggler is use cover. I always make sure I'm in cover (crouching is fine) whenever I'm not moving, as this means warriors and knights can't leap to me, forcing them to walk up to me, get flashbanged and have to walk after me as I've run away and dropped back into cover. Except for an extreme instant cast play style, 450 surge is way too high. Mmomechanics ran the numbers on surge/alacrity for smugglers a while back, so I'll summarise briefly. Essentially, at 250 surge, alacrity becomes better for burst healing. At 300-350 surge, alacrity becomes better for sustained healing, so for pve you should never have more than 350 surge. However, one of the coming patches (not sure if it's 1.5) will be increasing the limit before diminishing returns sets in, so 450 may become viable in the future. In high level pvp, your heals wil almost always get interupted so more surge is good as you'll simply never get the chance to use underworld medicine (and thus alacrity is pretty much useless).

I use a 31/3/7 spec for healing (http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/character/5800a476-cee1-43a2-8c94-43a4372ddd8e). Since I do pve and pvp, this spec suits me fine for both. For a pure pve build, medscreen is alright but I consider it an almost useless skill. Defense screen only absorbs about 2.5k, so if you're getting hit it'll be used up before you can heal. The only time you can use it and benefit is when you're not getting hit, which reduces its value as a defensive cooldown (although it does last 15 seconds). For gear you should generally get the two piece bonuses off both the pve and pvp sets, I haven't because I like the look of the rakata and with my gear don't need it (I will for NM EC). Always get the skill armourings, advanced artful mods (the crit one works too), and the advanced insight and adept enchancements. Stack skill augments. Do pvp and get two war hero boundless ages relics (though the BM version is fine if you hate pvp) Generally you want to go something along the lines of: Crit rating to 350, surge to 250-300->rest in power and alacrity The rotation has been covered already, but make sure you refresh SRM instead of letting it time out, with two stacks this will save you a lot of energy over the fight. EDIT: I fixed up my askmrrobot profile, so use that as a almost entirely optimised gearing and spec guide. Note that if you're a pure pve'er, you may want to adjust my spec slightly.

Though the raid leader is probably just clueless, sometimes when I'm running a guild raid I will request people with more gear. I very rarely do this, but sometimes I'm already carrying new guildies(alts) who are significantly undergeared (recruit/tionese), and need more geared people to help balance them out. I prefer to do this only with guildies, but possible smaller guilds might need pugs to help out.

These are always amusing

That sounds just like a legacy name, too bad Bioware got rid of those too

Come anyway A lot of our NC guys won't be heavily geared so it should balance out

Depends on the server really. Some have heaps of tanks and few healers, others have heaps of healers and few tanks. As always, dps aren't really needed for flashpoints etc, however you'll often find it easier to get a permanent raid spot as a dps, because a lot of guilds already have established tanks and healers.

He has been putting out some pretty good numbers recently (saw him hit 500k in a warzone) and generally interupts my heals. He ain't the best player out there but I've certainly seen worse.

As a member of the same guild as the merc, I can say that he wasn't forging his logs, just ended up with a wierd bug (not sure yet if it was his computer, the game, or the uploader). Knowing him, forging a log would just be too much effort for no gain, and not worth it.

In fairness, Stevoo was probably the first person on after maintenence, rather than there being only 1 person on the fleet