Not at all. I would take a Sniper, Marauder, PT, or Merc first.

Derp yeah I am using crit mods as a tank... LOL You know, it is possible to have two sets of gear for one toon right? In fact, this is the easiest for assassins because Xalek is able to wear most gear. Fun fact. I tank raids because who the f#$k in their right mind would put an assassin in a dps slot? LOL we are nerfed, and those that dont think so can go check out TORparse top stats. You might see shadows or assassins top in some fights, but the ones that matter (TFB HM, S&V HM) you wont see us at the top of anything. We don't have anything even slightly competitive with Maras, ranged have obvious benifits because they dont take as much damage, plus we are a net loss.

Obviously, until the DR point for Crit. My stats are to the point now where I have been pulling crit mods for power mods (whatever the 31b power one is called) which is stacked heavily on the Willpower and does not have that much power. Which is why I put Power in my augments, as any more crit for me (I sit at 20.7% without stim or buff) is a wasted stat. Looking at parses, when I do this my overall numbers jump slightly despite less crit. With the agent buff I have 25.7% which seems to be the sweet spot for crit. I had 35% at one point and my crit numbers were not that much different believe it or not. Again, this is what has worked best for me, and since I tank for my raid group I can't post any parses for raid environments that are relative to our conversation.

So you stock wp and I will stock power and we are all happy right? If you RTFA you might actually find you want Power, but hey do your thing!

Bump. Hey, at least its not crying about some fluff. Please fix madness.

Yup. From what they say in this thread: http://mmo-mechanics.com/swtor/forums/thread-1183.html Power trumps Willpower slightly.

http://mmo-mechanics.com/swtor/forums/thread-1183.html From what I see on that thread and everywhere else, it seems like 25% is the DR point. I am guessing that is buffed and stimmed.

I am still looking at my numbers from the mad maul. I have the same issues with force, but you are right the extra dps does help.

Yeah that was the idea. I feel like I am begging Bioware to fix this, but when you can spec almost half your talent points into the tank tree and INCREASE your DPS, it really points out that the madness tree is broken. Ideas how to fix it: 1. Have a proc for assassinate: I.E. say you crit with a force attack, and once you get 3 stacks you get to use assassinate before the target reaches 30% health and it auto crits. That right there would make it so a. Our DPS would be back where all the other classes are b. Positioning would no longer be an issue as maul would remain the force hog wet noodle it is now. c. We get some melee burst back 2. Give phase walk some buff with DPS. Assassins cloud or something of that nature where everyone standing within 5 meters of it gets a 5% dmg boost (or DOT boost or melee boost, or crit boost) This would: a. Give raid groups a great reason to bring assassins as they would bring a raid wide buff like marauders b. Give DPS assassins a reason to use the new ability as much as the tanks.

How is the force management with this build? I tried this on the PTS and had a lot of saber strikes in my rotation due to the force regen nerf...

I use it every cooldown when tanking. I don't pvp though. For DPS its only an escape at the moment.

Bump. Happy Friday AP. Madness needs: More force More Dps (or just bring duplicity back) Less garbage in the skill tree (Looking at you haunted dreams, oppressing force, shapeless spirit) In fact, lets talk about shapeless spirit. Take less damage while stunned????!11 DId you guys think ppl would PVP with this crap tree? LOL. Why would anyone want abilities that take so long to kill that the match is over before your abilities?!

Agreed. Bump

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#200bI0sbzcZZfMfRrbkG.3 (18/0/28) The idea behind this build is to help with the completely jacked up and flawed logic Bioware has inflicted on Assassin DPS. What this build does is give you back your force regen. The rotation is similar to normal madness: Death Field -> Discharge -> Thrash (proc Raze) -> Creeping Darkness I played with this a while last night and never once used a saber strike. The blood of sith keeps your force stocked enough to where you keep enough force for a Thrash at least. What this build also does for you is to allow you to use both Maul (no proc, I know it sucks) or Shock (again no proc so why right?) There are a ton of "wasted" talents in this build but I was able to get a sustained 2000 dps on the dummy with incomplete gear. I have still have a dread guard mainhand, and a lot of 63 mods and enhancements, as well as no set bonus. My stats are not balanced yet either: 21% crit / 72% Surge which I have not really spent too much time worrying about as I am still gearing up. I am hoping Austin Pekenpaugh will stick to his word and fix Madness so this build will become obsolete, but for now this is an option for those of you sick of saber strikes until your force regens.

/Signed. Ideas: Give conspirators cloak to madness. This would be much more useful here than in the tank spec.. (why is it there anyways? Assassin tanks are always in the lead when it comes to DPS so it really isn't even needed) or Provided choice #1 doesnt happen, Bring back duplicity Make a proc for assassinate to be used before health is reduced to 30%... Call it "Sudden death" or something. Have it be a stacking proc when you crit melee... When you reach 3 stacks you can use assassinate and it auto crits.... That would hit for roughly the same damage as a maul with duplicity. or bring in a new hard hitting melee attack (spinning saber?) that hits hard enough to give this build some insta-burst ability. The damage over time thing isnt that bad, it is the AMOUNT of time. As another posted above, its like we are tickling things to death.

Yes, re-roll a toon that Bioware approves of. The Devs obviously want this AC to be a squishy tank and that is it. If you want to DPS, roll a Marauder or a Sniper.

It is more than obvious that Austin P. has some personal vendetta against the class as a whole, and would NEVER give us more DPS. Why else would he nerf one single class so hard? If you read that article NONE of what he is saying makes any sense from a PVP or PVE perspective, his numbers are completely FALSE (assassin DPS STILL 300 LOWER than any other class) and yet he is silent. This thread continues to grow and yet not a word from the staff. All of the information I am seeing points to nothing being done. In the meantime, my repair bills from tank spec are getting out of hand, even with all 69/72 level mods and armoring, balanced defense stats etc. Just like we warned on the test server, mobs are taking us down in 3-5 seconds if the healer is not incredibly skilled, and even in some cases even with skilled heals. The whole armor nerf thing has been spread-sheeted to death, but numbers are numbers and all you have to do is count repair bills and wipes. So not only am I forced to tank with my favorite toon, I am forced to be a squishy tank, and if I want to run 55 hard mode flash points I DARE NOT pug them. I need the guilds BEST friggin heals, and even then we have 1-2 wipes on flash points. This is from a group that pre-2.0 had NM EC on farm. Fix it. F**k the cathar. F**k the cartel market. Fix this.

http://www.madsithassassin.com/2013/03/assassin-developer-interview.html In other words, we tried this on some trash mobs and it worked fine!!! Derp math is super hard!

Thursday Bump! http://www.madsithassassin.com/2013/03/assassin-developer-interview.html Still not the case. Still no word. Still taking our sub money. Another day, more cash from our pockets, and no word from the people with our bank account info on why they straight up lied to us, and continue to remain silent.

I don't know, but as a madness assassin who lost my DPS slot in my raid group and was bottle-necked into tanking with this toon I am going to keep trying until I unsub or ESO drops. Bump. Austin, you there?

http://www.madsithassassin.com/2013/03/assassin-developer-interview.html Bump. Austin, just admit you were flawed in your math. Fix your major mess up. Gonna keep bumping this thread every day.

Bump. http://www.madsithassassin.com/2013/03/assassin-developer-interview.html Let's hope Austin is at least a man of his word (we know he was straight up wrong by simply reading that interview) but let's hope that his dev's are reading this. I won't be spending another dime on any cartel coins or anything else Bioware related until they do.

Yeah me too. Especially after so many people saw it coming after testing it on the the PTS, and made many documented attempts to plea to BW to make a change. Here is yet ANOTHER plea to you Bioware: Please let give us the same thing you gave tank in the Conspirators Cloak, only for madness. This alone would pop DPS up another 150+ right away. The other change is Creeping Terror should not be an 18 second DOT, instead should do the same damage over half of that time. I have the worst time trying to burn ads now, even with Death field hitting like a truck. We need at least SOME burst in this spec that is NOT aoe. Shock is not hitting for more than 3k even with a crit. Also force management is still next to impossible. I find myself using saber strike all the time now. http://www.madsithassassin.com/2013/03/assassin-developer-interview.html?showComment=1366392553588#c8478206213112226733 <--- So Austin said we would do greater DPS at the end of fights and it would balance our dps out.... LOL is anyone finding that to be true? Anyone? Please fix this Austin.

Which is why I use this build: http://pts.swtor-spy.com/skill-tree-calculator/sith-assassin/222/?build=022312201121023002120202020200100302030000000000000000000000000000020000000000000000000000000000&ver=20 So far I'm ringing up DPS numbers close to 1000 even in boss fights. My stats are all jacked up but gear will solve that issue.