WoW also allowed full premade teams, this game does not. A Win in WoW gave far more Honor(Valor in SWTOR) than a loss, this game does not. It was nearly impossible to sandbag your own team in WoW, in this game, there are many ways to hurt your own team. It's an apples to oranges comparison.

Yeah, I wish I had looked at the closer before buying them all cause now my crafting UI is a clusterfrack. There are about 10 that are exact duplicates of others that you don't need. The rest of the large variety is due to having more or less Endurance in exchange for more or less secondary stat (Crit/Power/Defense/Absorption).

So then the logic is, everyone else is jumping off a bridge, so we should do it too? Awesome.

So you just want to punish these people because you don't like them, you don't like how they think, they're different than you. This is not logical or rational.

How does someone ruin a game for the rest of the team when all of you are already getting facerolled?

Just wanted to comment on this and hope you check back to see it. I was having this problem a lot (and still do sometimes), but had a friend from another server come over to play with us and he said it could be fixed by pressing the ESC button. This has actually worked a lot of the time and it is now a lot rarer that I am completely bugged with no way to fix it.

I understand this and get no enjoyment from 6-0s or 0-6s either. And sorry, had to edit my previous post to say "rather than they leave?" as that was what I meant to say and totally changes the meaning from how I previously typed the sentence. From my experience, if a game starts out 0-2 or 2-0, the losing side turns it around much more often when the bad players, just looking for quick wins, leave the Warzone, and better players get in their spot and help turn it around. When the bad players stay in the game, it usually just continues in the same direction and is often a much more drawn out, yet clearly decisive and painful loss. Same thing when the game starts out vice versa where my team is facerolling the opposition. Like last night in an Alderaan, we were winning with a 2-1 control, but not past the point where 1 base would win it. A few of the other side left, and some much better players got in their spot and gave us a run for the money. What was going to be a dull, boring, sit on our bases while the entire other team sits on their 1 for defender points, turned into a fun game where we had to fight hard at mid to keep it and hold onto the victory.

You're not reading what I'm typing. I don't want to be stuck with people who don't want to be there. They are either not going to try to help the team win, or are going to actually help the other team win for amusement and to expedite the end of the game. Trying to force people to do something they don't want to do is pointless and many times, self-destructive.

So do you want to get stuck in a WZ with these people, or would you rather they leave? The players like you describe are going to be the biggest problem, because they are going to be the ones purposely hurting their own team for entertainment and to expedite the end of the Warzone. You gotta get past how much you dislike these people and want to see them punished and look at the realities of how, no matter what, you can't force them to do what you want, and are only going to end up hurting yourself by doing so.

Are you really that stubborn? In the current system, if you get into a game that someone else left and it looks like a lost cause, you can just leave too without being unjustly punished for having bad luck of queueing into an already lost game. In the new system, you will have to stay in that crappy game, or suffer the penalty. You gain nothing by the change, you actually get punished by it. This rage logic of, "I'm mad and want people to be punished" is clouding your ability to think rationally. People are still going to quit, and there are still going to be the large number of people getting kicked out of WZs due to no fault of their own (DC, Crash, etc.) and you are going to get stuck in these games in their spot. The fact that the quitters or just plain unlucky SoBs get punished does absolutely nothing to benefit you.

I completely agree with the OP on the problems that these changes will cause. Implementing these 2 changes on their own will yield a negative outcome. Maybe if along with these changes, there were also changes to greatly increase the difference in Comms/Valor/Credits/XP gains from Wins compared to Losses, it would work.

See, this is the thing about this idea of giving a punishment to WZ quitters. I'll put aside the whole argument that everyone should have the right to play how they want to play and that if everybody can leave at will, then nobody is punished when people leave because everybody else can leave too. I'll put aside the argument that now you are going to be stuck playing in games where the other team exploits and you have no chance to win. I'll put aside the argument that now when you get UI bugged, crash out, or get forced out of the Warzone some way through no fault or choice of your own, you are going to get punished. Forget all those arguments for now. Players that want to leave a Warzone, but are forced to stay due to the penalty, they are just going to not try. Worse, they are going to sandbag their own team if it will expedite the end of the game by the other team winning. They are going to throw the ball to the other team. They are going to leave nodes undefended. They are going to friendly yank you into the fire/acid. They are going to watch the other team bomb the door and do nothing. They are going to just try to get kills fighting on the sides or in between nodes if they aren't the type to enjoy griefing their own team (and trust me, lots of people will do this, especially since they are introducing cross-server Warzones that will give people total anonymity). You can't make people do what they don't want to do. You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make them drink. There is already a penalty for leaving warzones early, and that is not getting your valor, commendations, XP, or credits. Aligning the Dailies with this is the right thing to do, so that people do not have much to gain by leaving a Warzone and have more to gain by staying in it even if it is a loss. Penalizing people with a deserter debuff or any kind of lockout is only going to cause different, and much greater pains to the players who want to stay in and compete. I would much rather let someone leave and get a new player who might want to help the team, than make that first person stay and be stuck with a wasted spot, or worse, essentially giving the other team a 9th player.

I agree with the OP that this new system greatly slowed the progression of getting champion gear for new 50s. It also did nothing to balance the people who were unlucky in the previous system against those that were lucky. So while players no longer have to fear being completely unlucky and see a light at the end of the tunnel, now everyone is forced into a progression timeline that is closer to that of the unlucky in the old system. It would have been nice if this kind of clear linear progression was in place from the beginning, but since it wasn't, a change like this needs to err on the side of quicker progression up to the point that many others have already reached in their gear. When new levels of gear are released for higher valor ranks, THEN a slower progression system can be used when the large majority are on near equal footing. I don't think that new 50s should be able to quickly get Champion gear, BUT, given that many were already able to do so with the previous system, it's really unfair. As it stands right now, champion gear is a huge barrier to entry for new 50s wanting to PvP. I hope that the ranked WZ system will be released soon to help rectify this, so that players can get to consistently play against other players at a similar point in gear progression. Past this, I think it would be a good idea to introduce another tier of bags at valor rank 30 or 40 that gave larger amounts of Champion Commendations. I am a Battlemaster and all this achieving of Champion gear means nothing to me. My fear is that I see a lot of new 50s having a big feeling of disenfranchisement over this. A lot of these people started the game later or were slower to level, and now that they finally reach 50, they are faced with getting demoralized in Warzones for a long time while they try to get gear. Some might say, "Well, they have to put in their time like I did." and, "I didn't spend all this time getting my gear so that others could just quickly get to the same level. It's my turn to have the advantage." These people need to ask themselves, how long do you want your fun to last? There aren't going to be enough people to play against after too long with the number that will give up and quit with this progression curve. The games you do get will be against the same people over and over again, it will get pretty boring and unfun pretty fast.

Most of the time, when your resolve bar is full, you will correctly be immune to stuns and mezzes. However, there are bugs, so sometimes you still get stunned/mezzed even though you already had full resolve. Most of the time, if you are in a mezz, i.e. a whirlwind from an Inquisitor, you will break out of it if you take any damage. However, there are bugs, so sometimes people just beat on you for 8 seconds while you are in a mezz. Knockbacks/Knockdowns do not consistently grant resolve or honor the fact that you already have full resolve. Also, they give differing amounts of resolve that is usually not half your resolve bar. Due to this, you can get Knocked back/Knocked down 3-4 times in a short period before you have full resolve. When resolve will start to decay (meaning the bar starts going back down) seems to be a total mystery. You can in fact be in a CC, i.e. a whirlwind from an inquisitor, and your resolve bar will be going down and be back to totally empty by the time the CC ends. There are also times when the resolve bar stays full for a very long time and only decays after you die. Lastly, no Rooting abilities are on the resolve system, so things like Warrior/Knight leaps rooting you in place and interrupting your activation do not grant any resolve, nor are they affected by your current resolve level. So you can get stuck in place multiple times in a row and never have any of your resolve bar fill up. Given that, you can judge whether it's broken or not for yourself.

I think the better fix would be to add medals for objective points, and probably also improve how objective points are awarded.

OP may be on a bit of a rage right now, but I think it's justified given the situation. Whether everybody wants to accept it or not, this game has been plagued with exploits in the PvP arena that go beyond sneaking out of start zones before the game starts and using speed hacks. It's well known that people exploited valor and XP gains from warzones ending early to get to Battlemaster very quickly after launch. It's also well known that others found ways to exploit valor gains in Ilum on the day of the patch to rise many ranks and get to BM very quickly. It's also pretty obvious that no action was taken against any of these individuals. Bioware was too busy banning people for looting worthless credits and green items from chests next to friendly faction NPCs that were programmed to respawn too quickly. Anyways, what is not exactly clear is how people got their BM gear so quickly, and how they have continued to do so. I think the patch yesterday is pretty telling: From this, it seems likely that there were ways to trade BM bags so that you could save up more than just 1 after being able to get them at rank 50. Also very likely that you could lock a BM bag in a trade window, then open it in your inventory to get the loot, then still trade it, effectively making it unlimited use.

As a Sorc, I am equally screwed by this

Coming back to this to add 1. You CTD/BSOD and the game isn't smart enough to put you back in the WZ when you log back in a minute later 2. A friend with limited playing time logs in and you want to re-queue with them 3. You realize that your food is burning or soon going to burn 4. Delivery guy at the door 5. Important Phone Call 6. Work aggro 7. You get DC'd and the game isn't smart enough to put you back in the WZ when you reconnect a minute later 8. Your Virus Scan kicks in and you are super lagged 9. Although you're pretty sure you told it not to, Windows reboots itself to complete an update 10. You thought it was a great idea to get your beers cold faster by putting them in the freezer section of the beverage fridge next to your desk, just for a little bit, but you forgot about it and now they have exploded and are leaking all over.

False on all accounts, and how many MMOs have you played? In RL, I get to pick my team and even my league. I don't play with scrubs, unless I really like their personality and so I am ok dealing with their badness. I don't join the Super competitive league if I am an average player, and I don't choose the beginner's league if I am a strong player. I have choice in my situation, so I don't need to quit. In SWTOR, I don't have this level of choice, so if I get in a WZ with a bunch of new 50s who don't even have the decency to get Artifact 50 mods from easymode daily missions, I'm not going to stick around when I see we're going against a premade Champion/Battlemaster geared group. Also, in RL, when people cheat, they get penalized (fouls called as you may be more familiar). In SWTOR, not so much.

False, there will be rare occasions where people get easy wins from a revolving door of opponents leaving the WZ, but the reality is that people have to stay in games to get wins and valor so the larger majority of WZs where the sides are more evenly balanced and devoid of exploits, there will be plenty of GAME being enjoyed by all.

How? They can just quit too. People are only penalizing themselves by being too stubborn to do what is in their best interest.

This, but I would recommend getting a few % of accuracy as a force/tech attack user because there are a few classes that do have a few % of resistance and this will help negate it. Especially now that Surge diminishing returns kick in much sooner, Alacrity is still pretty crappy, so using some of those tertiary stat points for Accuracy, at least in PvP, will help you avoid those annoying resists.

Depends on how many times I get into games where the other side exploits to get more than 8 on their team, uses one of the various Voidstar exploits, uses speed hacks, etc. I AFK out of almost all of those games.

OMGZ, I can't stack a stat to it's 100% hard cap on a completely linear scale with 4 pieces of gear. It now has diminishing returns JUST LIKE EVERYTHING ELSE, NO FAIR!

Exactly. This was done because Surge did not hit diminishing returns as soon as other stats. It was a game balance issue that had nothing to do with casuals vs hardcore. Anybody with half a brain could look at charts like this and clearly see that the scaling of surge was totally FUBAR.