WooduckAUS
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Posts posted by WooduckAUS
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I don't run from fights, i'm a CM.... lol. While these other AC's are running, there teamates are dying.....
No i have not healed with other classes. I've healed pretty much all pve content and hit 6-700k heals in pvp on a good match, 4-500k on a bad/average match, without pve gear. Happy with my heals, don't want to roll another toon.
All i'm saying is, CM is fun in a warzone. I don't run/hide/LOS anyone. I jump in the middle of the action, green beam and kolto anyone i can and i get good results. Not here to whine about my class, i like him the way he is. Upfront and personal!! If my guys look after me, i look after them. Even in a bad match i can put up more heals then most other healers. Occasionally, i get rolled by an amazing scoundrel....occasionally.
If the DPS Commando's are getting rolled, that is a different story.... If you don't like your dps, learn how to heal properly and come have fun with me, but don't start bagging commando heals.
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I'll be more than happy to look at this in further detail tomorrow.
What is see initially is your crit significantly lower then mine and your accuracy is higher then mine. That may account for some of the difference. Without know exactly what gear you have, its hard to pin point....
Also, if you have been following this thread, you would have noticed the increase over the last week or so on my parses. I haven't improved my gear, just my relics (thanks to chukles). The dreadguard combo i have now, works A LOT better then the warhero i had.
If you add those 3 suggestions together, i think that would make up a good chunk of the difference, prob not all.
I'll look into it further for you when i get time. If you supplied more details on your build, that would help too.
p.s. don't mean to be a noob but what does "APM" stand for....? that may help me understand the difference too...
SHADOWS FTW!!
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But like the Commando's dps trees, the CM tree can put up great numbers **if left alone**.
I don't want to be left alone, i want to compete, how boring would that be? Any healer that is getting zero help and left alone to "face tank" is going to get rolled, regardless of class. Going up against better players and having lower then average players on your side is where the problem lies. As a commando healer, i don't want more escape tactics and tricks, i would prefer some help and support from team mates who know what they are doing. I can put up good numbers and compete with what i have now.
I can't talk for DPS commandos, but from a CM stand point, i'll take good players on my side any day. If i don't have them, then i back out and come back later and hope for a different group on either side.
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i've never dps'd on my commando, so i can't comment on that. I do heal with him though and i agree as well. If you are in a bad group, leave and come back later. Its more about the group then the individual in pvp.
I feel i offer enough support as a healer, so i have no problem with that. I can't produce the numbers the smuggs do, but i can hold my own in pvp and i have no pvp gear.....
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@ Besk
Looks like a solid build man, getting your gear up there.
I haven't had a chance to test with my crit rating that high, so i can't comment on that. In between 300-400 crit, you start seeing harsher effects of DR. I'm sitting at 275 atm. So its a balancing act from there on out. Another suggestion to try and see if you like it, would be to take an Acc enhencement out and swap for power/surge maybe. The sweet spot on my guy is around 98% accuracy, any less and i start missing DS and BS, anymore and i am missing out on extra power. Given that infil is more melee then force (opposite of balance), you may find that you need the 100%. Not sure.
IMO, i think it looks great. Maybe just test out those suggestions to see if they help or hurt.
Come do some dummy runs this afternoon and we can test these ideas out, if you have time. I'll respec to infil as well and compare.... though your gear is A LOT better then mine!?
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Kk, nps.
I don't tank on my shadow anymore (so maybe i shouldn't post in shadow/tank forums....just bored at work), i don't recall having to wait for anything or needing saber strike BUT i am not doubting your math Kitru. I learnt not to a long time ago.....
So what you're saying is after 1 full rotation ending in TKT, with 1 double strike if i recall correctly before the 2nd rock, this ends in force starvation. I must have swapped a few rocks for ST and vice versa, to manage force. Maybe there was a split second or 2 that i was waiting for a little force but i don't remember any problems.
Either way, splitting hairs here. I still think we are talking on the same page about the nuts and bolts of the rotation. Never said i was perfect, just a simplified version for fairly solid tanking rotation for the OP. I just remember favoring 2 rocks in my rotation if possible and it worked pretty well for me. I never tanked TFB HM, he was retired by then but never had any problems tanking, at the time, all the current HM ops etc.
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If you end up using Project on CD, you end up having to use Saber Strikes for otherwise empty CDs while your Force regenerates, which, functionally, increases the CD on Project.
Interesting. Though i never used saber strike while tanking, took it off my bar completely, never needed it.
Does the extra single target damage count into this?
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For me force starvation was never an issue. It only was when i spammed too many DS trying to proc your rocks!! Once you forget about that, it was easy.
For focus on single target, holding smaller adds, (using your rocks - slow time - FB - rocks = 3 stacks -TKT) was perfectly fine, throwing in the occasional DS if you have the spare force and your 2nd rock was not off cooldown. Never had to worry about adds peeling off with that one.
Spamming 2 slow times in the 1 rotation, looks like lower single target threat to me.
Just my opinion though.
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Having looked through all these amazing parses I have come to one main conclusion: crit is extremely important!
Will swop some mods etc and try again soon :-)
I used to believe the exact same thing, power > crit.... mainly because of all the posts regarding this topic. Then i started on the endless quest of higher dps. After countless hours and dummy testing and re-testing (never looked into this Sim-c thing i keep hearing about, might have saved me time....) and tonnes of money swapping mods in and out.
After all this testing, i have found that the percentages you see are irrelevant. Its all about the rating and DR's from crit. Once you hit these marks, then you start stacking power. So anyone who says 30%/75%, is not maximising there dps in my opinion and has been backed up in dummy testing. This is all based on balance but I'm going to try a few runs on Infil and see how it affects that build. I'm going to assume, many people may disagree, that this will show the same. The DR's don't change from build to build. So why would your stacking be any different....
By stacking power > crit, you end up with inconsistent spikes in your damage. If you get lucky on a few good crits, you may very well end up with a few nice figures and some good burst damage. If you stack crit until dr's > then power, you end up with smaller hits but a lot more crits, more consitently over any amount of time. Resulting in higher more consistent dps. Given most boss fights are longer then 2mins, with exception to boss mechanics that allow multiple burst phases. Even in this situation, if you don't get a few good crits in these phases, you will still end up with inconsistent burst dps.
I'm not trying to tell people how to play their game, each to their own. This is all constructive critisism and ideas, aimed to help people who are interested in getting the most out of there shadow. But i do recommend trying, properly, what i am talking about and see what results you get. For all the people out there that say the dummy does not count, it most certainly does when comparing to the same classes with similar builds. Its a training tool, if you can maximise in here, then practise and perfect out there.... you will see the benefits of higher dps.
So far, my best results are with a crit % of around 38% and thats because i have no more crit mods atm. If someone can do higher dps with the same amount of gear, i'd like to hear from you because that would mean i have more to change/fix.
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Just hit a personal best on the dummy, sustained over 1800 dps for a 7 min fight. Was holding around 1820-40 for most the fight, then my stim wore off in the last 30 secs.....
2 x 63 armorings (waist & bracers) and 2 x dreadguard relics, the rest lvl 61. Full buffs, stims and no adrenals (REALLY have to start working on biochem....)
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If you don't like the pebbles and want to do damage, then shadow is the answer. Not a pebble in sight.... unless you are tanking with him (or a hybrid of some sort for pvp) !!
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I agree with both these ideas and would be happy with either options.
Take the old animation back or change the ability completely to try and make it work.
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Here's my new personal best for parsing.
http://www.torparse.com/a/59260/time/1354121525/1354121905
-Chukles
Nice man, congrats.
What did you change? Looks like you added some crit? and is that a new relic??
Its about time we got the shadows into the 1900's!!
After talking to you the other night, i'm going to start pvp'n more in balance too now. I didn't think it was viable, but clearly i was wrong....
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Everything I have done was to make myself viable and to prove to people, that did not want anything to do with infiltration, that we are still well above average dps if we play the class correctly.
I agree, it is tough to get respect as a shadow.... even harder as infiltration.
I love nothing more then listening to the comments as my shadow out dps's most players. I did a comm run last night, with an equally (if not marginally better) geared slinger and 2 sents. EV HM, EC & TFB SM. My shadow lead the dps race in all boss fights and most trash fights. I believe the comment, "f%*k me, i had no idea shadows could do that much damage" came up after the first boss....
I am aware of the math between the classes, but i can tell everyone who is a non-believer right now, a competent shadow can out dps 95% of the players using "higher" parsing classes.
Nothing drives me more, than giving it to an arrogant sent that believes he is the best simply because he is using a class that "theoretically" should out dps mine. Then after the fight, listening to the sweet sound of silence.....as he just got romped by a shadow!!
SHADOWS FTW!!
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None of my stats have changed, i only changed out my war hero relic for a 2nd dread guard relic.......
Still sitting with 270 crit and 344 surge, low power.
http://www.torparse.com/a/58649/1
If you look at the timeline, i was sittiing above 1800 for most the fight, only dropped under in the last 20 secs....
I'M COMING FOR YOU CHUKLES!!
lol
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Thanks. I am still debating as to removing 1 point from Force Synergy and adding it to Expertise. At this point the trade off would be minimal in either direction.
Have you tried the "double rock" approach? I found on infil that gave me a higher dps output?
3/31/7
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@ Kitru
Not sure where i saw it, but i have been keeping an eye on the discussion between project being viable or not in the balance build. Up until now, i have been a firm believer that it has no place in the build. This has been proven in your math and i have put it in practise on the dummy and shown the same. Now before everyone jumps down my throat, i do think it still has a use in the game but not in a max sustained dps perspective.
Now, back to point. I have been wondering what to do with my second charge of force potency. Up until now, i have just been using it on my proc'd mind crush. Gives me an insta crit, but in my mind not a game changing use for it. Someone suggested, hold off on mind crush until your next FiB comes up and use it on that. Once again, guaranteed insta crit but you would possible miss 2 rotations of mind crush and in my mind (without doing the math), would not put you that far in front if at all. Which brings me back to the rocks we all know and love to hate.....
I would love to see the math behind using my rocks for 1 charge of force potency every time its off cool down. So once every 90 secs....
FP( FiB + project) = (Insta crits + 45% chance of another boulder + 10% increase to melee bonus damage) - (THE LARGE AMOUNT OF FORCE IT COSTS.....)
I haven't seen any massive boost to dps on my dummy testing, so if it makes any difference it appears to be minimal. But it certainly doesn't drain your dps the same as simply putting Project into your rotation.
I'm not meaning to be lazy, but you seem to have a knack for the math on these things. Any chance you could work out if this would be dps effective? With Project proc's so high in the tree, i would like to believe they have a use somewhere.... even if minimal dps gain.
Let me know what you guys think?
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I like the look of your build, looks like you have spent a lot of time on him. Glad to see infil shadows that go all the way and show that they are still viable at the end. By the looks of those stats, i'm guessing that most, if not all, are lvl 63's.
Thanks for re-posting.
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I'm not sure what your exact words are that you would like me to use to describe it, but you get my point.
I agree that their health fluctuates the most during heaving incoming damage, i don't mean they make bad tanks but as a reasonably competent healer.... they do make me sweat. Predictable spikes are a lot easier to manage then unpredictable. That may just be my noob healing....
Kitru, can you jump on to the balance dps thread. I would like to run an idea i had for project in the balance rotation and i enjoying reading you points of view and the math behind them.
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I just checked my parses and it looks like you may be on the wrong dummy. Head back to the "operations" dummy and show us a parse from that. Would be interested in seeing the results. I do love infiltration and if you could get the same results on that dummy..... that would be fun!!
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Hey guys. Just Happen to be browsing and this thread caught my eye. Here is a parse of 1869, over the course of 5 mins, and stats from myself.
Phazon @ The Shadowlands server
Primary Damage 1114-1316
Bonus Damage 709.6 (832)
Accuracy 96.70 (171)
Critical Chance 38.20 (347)
Crit Multiplier 78.62 (411)
Willpower 2275
http://www.torparse.com/a/58134/3
I currently use a spec of 7-31-3.
Hope this helps ^^
Main four buffs with an Exotech stim. I do not have Biochem on this toon so no power adrenal. No armor debuff or insipiration either.
Which dummy is this on? I don't quite understand how you can have accuracy so low, but not miss on your hits. On the ops dummy, anything under 98.5% i miss backstabs and double strikes, left right and centre.... Even with 98% i still miss the occasional double strike, but not enough to warrant worrying about increasing my Acc.
If that is on the ops dummy, then i am impressed. You clearly have better gear then I but the accuracy doesn't add up. Can you explain?
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Can you link your gear build? Cheers!
This parse is with my character stack with crit - http://www.torparse.com/a/57968/3
Melee
Primary - 1069 - 1264
Bonus - 679.8
Acc - 98.35
Crit - 276 / 37.07
Surge - 342 / 77.36
This parse is stacked power - http://www.torparse.com/a/57968/4
Melee
Prim - 1108 - 1303
Bonus - 719.4
Acc - 98.35
Crit rating/chance - 112 / 31.52%
Surge rating/multiplier - 342 / 77.36
So far, i've found that maxing crit until DR's give me the higher dps scores on the dummy.
Unfortunately i have Chukles on my ship, making me look bad and beatin on my dummy...... My dummy will never be the same. Thanks Chukles.
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I agree with Kitru on this one. I have done a lot of tanking on my shadow but since turned him to dps and now tank on my Guardian. The shadows have an insane amount of threat control (try guardian tanking if you think shadows have a hard time keeping aggro).... which is ironic because they are also the squishiest!! Easiest to hold threat, hardest to heal when they got it!?
If they give you 2 GCD at the start of a fight, or at least wait 2 GCD before adrenals etc, you will never lose aggro, ever... or really unlucky. I use my taunts for EMERGENCY only. Theoretically, you should be able to hold threat without taunts. On the occasion that you mess up, or a boss mechanic is messed up.... you better hope you still have a taunt up your sleeve for such an occasion. Because if you don't, that generally means a wipe. If you already factor your taunts into your rotation...... then chances are they won't be there.
(project - slow time - FB - (if spare force and project is not off cooldown) DS - back into project - TKT) x rinse and repeat.
Pretty much the only rotation you will ever need.
On trash mobs, attack priority is always essential. Once again, if you keep this rotation up and group everyone (force pull), there is enough group threat in this rotation to hold a full group of 5 for as long as you want. DPS should be attacking the weak first and preferably the same target. If you keep your taunts up your sleeve, you may see a range or a random peel off for the healer (OR a silly sent will jump in on the wrong target, they always do), thats when your taunt or force pull come in handy. Get them back on you and continue with rotation. ALSO, a fully procc'd TKT works just as well as a taunt. With 3 stacks and you blast it at someone not hitting you, they will peel back to you 9/10. Unless the silly sent, described above, starts attacking them......
This was simply my answer to the OP, not contradicting anyone elses ideas on tanking. This is how i tank'd on my shadow and i was pretty good at it. Most of my guild, especially the healers, when they run with other tanks comment on how spoiled they were with me tanking. Its always hard to find "good" tanks.
Hope this helps.
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Nice Dr, sustaining 1640 for infiltration, thats a good run. For how long were you on the dummy for? I was and still am hardcore infil, but after seeing the numbers from balance, its been fun. Only been here for 2 weeks now and enjoy pulling the numbers i am. But would love to go back if i could work out how to pull similar numbers from infil. I did another quick run last night and sustained 1750-60 for 10 mins. If we could get infil up close to those numbers i would change back in a heartbeat!!
Can you post your results from your run when you get a chance, would like to see what you do. Last time i ran infil on a dummy, i was holding around 1600-1650 but it was really hard to sustain that. Maybe i'll jump back on and do some testing.... post something. Lets see if we can get infil going harder!!
PvE Highest DPS - Post your DPS
in Shadow / Assassin
Posted
Just quickly, what build do you have....? Reason i ask, you have the same crit rating, more willpower, but hitting less crit on the dummy.... something doesn't sound right. Did you take the points in Tech Mastery for the 3% crit bonus?
Also, try droping acc. I'm at 228 and over a 7 min parse, i'll miss 1 BS and 1 DS. Thats worth swapping out 1 enhancement for more power/surge. If i take another Acc out, i start to miss too much. Once again, won't make a HUGE diff by itself but all these little things do add up. Swap an acc enhancement out for a power/surge or crit/surge.
Are you using dummy on fleet? Possible lag spikes may be holding up your actions. I bought the dummy for my ship. A little better but not always perfect.
We are dot based. So if we assume lag is not the issue, then you may be missing something in your rotation. Our average damage per attacks are fairly similar... so if we do the same damage, hitting on the same dummy, haven't missed anything significant in your build. Then it comes down to rotation and execution. Rotation is not rocket science, but the execution is all about timing.
I have gone purely dps build for this thread. I have picked everything, big or small, to help my dps. I do mainly pve at the moment, when i go back to some pvp, i'll change a few points here and there to make me.... less squishy, more utility etc.
http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/skills/Shadow#3c-f-1fe70e8f2f
Also, your second dreadguard relic will help too. Campaign auto hit relics were useless. Dreadguard relics are worth the investment. Just a quick note for those who noticed.... yes i bought the wrong one. Will change when i get another 300 daily comms.... oops, lol.
1. Dummy on ship
2. Check your build / utilize every dps talent we have
3. Try tweaking and tuning acc/power/crit/surge a little more. You'd be surprised the diff it makes.
4. 2nd Dreadguard relic
5. Execution of rotation.
Hope this helps. Let me know how you go.