LordTurin
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Posts posted by LordTurin
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Nevermind
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This is so wrong it hurts.
Truth hurts. Tell us how PTs have been significantly nerfed since 3.0 and 4.0. Not comparitively, because that part is true, but actually flat out nerfed in any significant way.
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I get what you saying but show proof! I already posted links showing how PT have to be reset, but where is your proof that PT have not been nerf? evidence plz
besides last I check PT was a dual class, not a squishy nondefensively class like it is today.. and went I say proof that means the Combat Proficiencies have to be the same as they were before. You can compare and contrast using the links I provide if you wish to.. up to you..but plz show proof.. aside from exercising your free speech
There are no dual classes in swtor, and have not been for a long time. There are classes that can do two roles, but if you try to both tank and dps at the same time, you will do worse in both.
Here you go:
http://dulfy.net/2016/12/22/swtor-5-0-advanced-prototype-powertech-pve-guide-by-jaymis/
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In which specific ways is 3.0-4.0 VG PT better?
I assume he is making the mistake that somehow PTs have been nerfed since then, which isnt true, it's just literally almost everything else got buffed so PTs are weaker by comparison. But bringing back 3.0 PTs will not help one iota right now.
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Eric Musco.
in PvP
WHAT! that is just utter ridiculous! First off not everyone specs out the same so not everyone takes the force shroud on cloak which means that a fricken sneeze pops you out stealth. Dotted your popped, small gust of wind your popped! 2nd dam near every time I do manage it i'm still flagged for combat so no heal to full. Lastly healing outside of combat kinda tells you that's it not a heal to full because IT"S OUTSIDE OF COMBAT! (sorry not yelling at you just the absolute absurdity of the notion) But just to prove the point if you accept his ludicrous argument that means that merc's have not one but 2 heal to fulls because they can heal out side of combat too!Pop shroud and then stealth out?
And mercs cant leave combat once they are in it whereas sins can.
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Who is this typing on Banderal's account? The eternally optimistic Banderal, this surely isn't him.
What I am reminded every day when I enter WZs is how lopsided teams can be constructed. It's utterly ridiculous sometimes. To use your words, all it takes is 2-3 "super stars" versus a really weak side and the match completely folds inside out.
I notice some well-geared people quit matches before they start when the team has a lot of 230 or less geared players. It's no guarantee they are bads, but I can see why as often times these lesser geared players not only wear crap gears but they play poorly too.
I don't know what matchmaking will accomplish if much at all if it only goes off of class specs. If they somehow could manage a matchmaking system from some sort of ELO then it might be even better than class spec matchmaking only because skill level seems to trump all.
Didn't Eric or someone mention some sort of hidden ELO rating all players have that they could use to possibly match up players according to skill? I don't know, maybe the population aint big enough for that anyway.
I guess I am just frustrated as of lately.
They are combining all that together to make sure the teams are even:
Actually, since SWTOR launched players have always had a "rating" behind the scenes. I am hesitant to say rating since this isn't the same thing as your Ranked score, but it's the easiest way to explain it. This is more of a way that we approximate player skill solely for the purposes of matchmaking. This is also the reason we don't expose this information, since it is not really a rating (like Elo, etc).In 5.9.2 we are making optimizations in how we use this information along with things like role, spec, gear, and more to try to create the most balanced teams we can.
-eric
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So just make a rule for ranked that the ignore list is, well, ignored. It can work for unranked and deactivated for ranked. What's the problem?
What's the difference of that vs your just leaving anytime you see the person you don't want to play with? The only way they'd be able to implement this is if they make it so the person who is doing the ignoring is the one who gets skipped in queue, even if they were in queue first (after all, there are a lot of reasons to ignore a person, not just hacking. Lord knows I have a lot more people on my ignore list because I don't like their personality than because I think they are hacking, and I'm sure I'm on some people's ignore list for the same reason, but there is no way I'd be ok with missing a pop because someone else didn't like something I said). And if they did that, now all the people who I'm ignoring I need to either unignore, and then listen to them when I don't want to, or miss pops. And I'm not ok with either of those options.
But wait! you ask. Can't BW just have 2 ignore lists? One where you don't listen, and one where you don't play with them? People so bad, that you would rather not get a pop then get in a WZ with them and just leave in 30 seconds? Meh, sure. If you wanna advocate for that, knock your socks off. I still won't be happy, cause it'll still cause the queus to slow down, and I think your time would be much better spent advocating for better and faster response to "hacking" then trying to convince BW to create a 2nd ignore list with different constraints, and different behaviors, and implement those different behaviors into PvP without breaking anything, but go for it.
EDIT:
You would simply not be placed in a group in which I am placed. Or, I would not be placed in a group in which you are placed. Priority goes to whomever entered the queue first.Yes, I realize that it gets more complicated as more people join the queue. But, keep the basic rule of "first come, first served" in place, unless and until a match can only be made by excluding that player and allowing in someone further down the queue. It's just math, right?
Just to be clear, this simply does not work. PVP simply will not work if the healer that I was focusing last match (because he/she is a healer, and that is usually the optimal strat) decides he/she is annoyed I killed him/her 6 times, and so decide to ignore me, and then as punishment, I now have to wait longer for a PvP pop if they are sitting in the queue first. The only way a system like this works is if the person ignoring is the one excluded, otherwise, it is just as open to abuse as it would be in ranked.
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Ah, someone else on the pub fleet thought of a possible explanation for this... because I was pub side in that match with you, and I DID see some /say messages from an imp-side player on the other team. I guess /say has a range... maybe the spawn areas are outside the range, and that is why /say wasn't working at the start?
Just a thought, and not actually my original one.
I was doing it pretty constantly throughout the match, the start I figured was out of range, and was asking for feedback multiple times and the only response I got was from an imp side player. As I said, could have just been people ignoring me, but figured I'd mention it.
Actually, it raises a good point, that there should be a way to chat with people opposite faction opposite team other than say (so it can go across the whole map) especially since everything is crossfaction now. /1 still works for same faction, so something to talk to enemy opposing faction makes sense.
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It should at least work to keep from being put on the same team as an ignored player. That wouldn't break the queues.
That would be horrifically abused in ranked.
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Chat functions don't see to be working, especially /say going to opposite team opposite faction.
Of course, it could just be that people on the other team were just ignoring me instead
:D:D -
All I know is that I went to the GW2 forums this week and my god people are posting there all the time. This forum really is dead by comparison. Say what you will but it's summer there too and the frequency of posts is MUCH higher.
Of course the devs do respond there more regularly as well, but clearly it's a lot more active over there than here.
Here is an interesting site, that estimates in-game activity based on reddit activity.
https://mmo-population.com/r/swtor/
Clearly off, and I certainly don't think that there are 150,000 swtor users daily, but it is interesting nonetheless (it ranks SWTOR as number 11, behind a bunch of things including GW2, which is ranked 3).
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I mean if you regularly do both PvP and PvE right now its still better to have 2 gear sets because it costs 50k To pull out 1 enh or augment. And since you need way more acc in pve it can get pretty damn expensive quick. Even with just 1Enh and stim change. The gearing stats are different for PvP and PvE.
Now if they did bring back expertise, with mats tied to ranked it would be even worse. Youd have mat farmers that would be even worse off. Now imagine playing solos and getting them on your team.
Eh, that's only if you are that fussed about having 107% acc. Instead of 105%. If not, just swap between mastery and accuracy stims (and even that's only for ranked, for regs I usually dont bother).
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The first one I don't remember. However, I also don't remember having to wait any significant number of minutes for that first pop. If it had been 10 or even 5 minutes I probably would have noticed that.
I was going to say, "I don't really remember" for the one at the end too... and I don't. However, I have screen shots!
I have a closing score screen from the one before at 1:35 PM (EST) and I have one where we are in the spawn area of round 2 of the arena at 1:41 PM. So that's 6 minutes to get from the score screen of one game, into the next game, and through the first round. And that arena was a 2 healer 2 DPS each side, so they were not short rounds. We ended the arena at 1:48 PM - them winning 2 rounds in a row. Which leads me to conclude that we must have gotten the arena pop almost immediately upon exiting the match before.Ok, so I think we can assume that the timer is based on the first person in queue, and that the time is somewhere between 5 minutes and 16 minutes. Soooo 10 minutes seems like a decent bet? And that is the longest any single person would wait, everyone else would wait for a shorter time.
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Shoot, you said it first. I guess you win the forum PvP this round!
I thought that was part of the focus of the new stronghold. I admit I didn't pay that much attention to the Rishi SH, since I don't really get into the doll houses. But can't people set up basically 4v4 matches there and practice?
I saw a few. They only happened at the start and end if I remember correctly. I know the first 2 hour slot on Saturday, I took screens of almost all the games I had. I had 1 arena at the start (which was 1/2 after it started - so maybe that counts as "prime time"?). Then all 8s until it was winding down, and one arena at the end.
Haha hooray! Another forum pvp victory!
I guess? Still, solo arena regs I think are still a better prep for yolo's then playing with 7 friends in my opinion, just in the likelihood of toxicity if nothing else
How long had you been waiting for a pop both times? That would probably give us a good indicator of the countdown. And was it the very first match you played? Because I'm also thinking that the timer would either have to be from the first person to get in queue, or from whenever there are 8 people. I would assume it is from the first person, because if it is 8 people, one person could leave queue, one jump back in, and so on and so forth and there would never be a pop. But even if you hopped on and got a pop pretty quickly, if there was someone waiting 25 minutes for a pop, that would explain it.
Also, how long did you wait for the one at the end as well? That is probably a better litmus (as it'll at least give us a range, however long you waited+the length of you last match is probably the max time the game would wait).
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That is a bit hazy though. Because if you were to go solely on that point, no body in regs would ever play an arena again unless there were less than 16 people in the queue.
I’m assuming there must be a slightly higher number than that when they make a transition, maybe between 16-30, which is still less than 2 full 8 man matches.
It would just be good to have some hard numbers from Bioware so were can test it.
I think that is exactly the plan. If you want to do Arena's, play ranked.
I'm sure there is some kind of time limit, because if you think about it, there will almost always be less than 16 people in queue (after all, if there are 16 people in queue, than a WZ can pop).
I assume they have it set up like this:
If <16 people in queue, start countdown from (I dunno, 10 minutes?). If it reaches 0, do an Arena.
If >=16 people, try to do matchmaking
If no more than 2 heals and 2 tanks per team can be created, make WZ.
If not, start countdown (I dunno, 5 minutes?) If it reaches 0, allow up to 5 total tanks/heals per team (but no more than 3 of either). Then start another countdown, and continue expanding until its literally only heals/tanks, and that point a match has to start, as long as there are still 16 people in queue.
Anyway, the latter point I obviously don't know, but it seems pretty clear from Eric's statement that if a WZ can be created, it will always take priority over creating an arena. I hope I'm wrong, because that will just make ranked even more brutal for new folks if they can't even practice arena's in regs, but unless he clarifies, I think that is a safe assumption.
A good test would be did any arena's pop during the scheduled PVP times? If not, then Eric's statement is probably true.
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trauma has existed since 3.0 (maybe before that, I started playing in 3.0) expertise existed in 3.0 as well. you could make a viable arguement that trauma, pvp debuff and expertise hl nerf worked in tandom together to provide a fun and fair pvp exp.
you also could make a counter arguement that both trauma and the pvp debuff are in 5.0, the complaint that hlrs and dcds being over tuned is a very real complaint these days.
could you "buff" trauma to mimic expertise debuff? sure, but always remember when suggesting changes that this game is pve first and foremost, and you cant nerf something that breaks pve just so pvp survives. you have to nerf and buff where the money is, then compensate accordingly
Trauma is a PVP only thing, so buffing that wouldn't impact PVE in the slightest.
dont forget a while back also, pvp and pve gear had different set bonuses as well. they are ultimately very different gear sets.That hasn't been the case since at least 3.0 (even in 3.0 I think most of the bonuses were the same). They have not been really different gear sets since at least 4.0, the only difference in 4.0 was expertise, which as I have stated many times, and no one has informed me differently, was literally just a garbage stat to make there be 2 gear grinds.
And yes, in 4.0, both the gear grinds were relatively easy to do (you could be fully geared for both PVP and PVE in under a week with a little hustle), but I have yet to hear a good explanation as to why the gear should be separate aside from "they can then make the PVP gear grind faster" (and yes, I have heard people talking about expertise being used to balance PVP without touching PVE, but as far as I'm aware they have not used expertise like that in the past, and if they had I'd really appreciate an explanation so I'll stop saying that
. I'd like them to do that, but that is more easily accomplished by making it a stat outside of gearing then inside). I'd rather they make the gear grind faster for both. -
No, I don’t agree with him at all. I said I apologised for being wrong about buffs being added. That is the only thing.
I agree, Sorcs shouldn’t get a total 10% damage buff. I was only saying I would trade 10% survivability for 10% damage increase just to demonstrate that I’d prefer to lose survivability in favour of damage.
If they are to get a burst buff, they will have to have a nerf to either their aoe (no we're not talking about FS) or revert the DR buff back to where it was, or both. I'm happy for ling sorcs to have a small buff in dmg, but if we're talking marksman hitting abilities, or rage jugg hitting abilities, then the 15% lightening strike dr has to be adjusted in accordance with it.I’d prefer to lose survivability in favour of damage.No agreement at all huh...
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Well there you go. Something I didn’t see. Thank you for linking it. I apologise for being wrong about the buff.
It still doesn’t mean that Sorcs don’t need a dps buff. Honeslty I wish they’d strip out 10% survivability and add a 10% dps buff
Why they even thought we needed another defensive buff is beyond me. It certainly isn’t needed.
... so you agree with the arm-chair general then?
Also, yeah, no way is sorc getting a 10% dmg buff, that would put them above almost every spec's sustained dmg. Maybe a 10% boost to burst window somehow, but not just a flat 10% dmg buff, that would make lightning absurdly OP in everything including pvp.
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this might tell what hottie ment by it was used to "balance" stats.
if you look at the third post down, the commenter remarks the expertise buffed healer output differently. this likely is what happened to 5.0 pvp
There is already a buff in PVP called Trauma that does that too. They wouldn't need to bring expertise back to change how healing works in PVP, just nudge the amount that trauma debuff lowers healing by. And yes, if "balance" is meant strictly by dps vs healing, that is one thing, but typically balance is referencing every class and spec vs each other, and that expertise has never done (and like I said, the trauma debuff takes care of the healing stuff anyway).
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Like I said... arm chair general because you don’t actually play the class. Nothing snide or insulting if it’s true.
Also, please tell me which buffs Lightning Sorcs got? Which recent buffs are you talking about? To my knowledge, Lightning Sorcs have not had a buff in 2 years. But we have had a nerf to out self heals.
Now if I’m wrong, I’ll apologise, but I’m 99.99% sure they’ve had no buffs in the last 9 months.
I don’t know what you consider recent ???
You really shouldn’t be attacking me when you do t even know
http://www.swtor.com/patchnotes/05032018/game-update-5.9-nathema-conspiracy
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interesting. I've always said I'm not the best at math
No worries. Now providing some kind of extra damage buff with expertise may be a way to make PVP a little more balanced and nerf healing, and isn't a terrible idea necessarily to have people die faster, it's just not something that's been done in the past.
Honestly that's been my concern with a lot of the comments here. I just keep hearing all these magical things about how expertise gear solved every problem, but as far as what I have seen, literally all it did was create a distinction between PVP and PVE gear. Yes, in 4.0 it was easy to gear up full PVP gear, but 4.0 it was easy to gear for both PVP and PVE. I also keep hearing about how expertise can be used to balance classes, but I truly don't recall expertise ever being used in that fashion. I would love it if it did, and would fully support that, but absent that, I don't see any purpose in splitting up PVP and PVE gear (actually I don't anyway, make expertise a stat that is outside of PVP, and then give buffs/nerfs to it based on spec). Speed up gearing for both PVP and PVE (yes, it's relatively easy once you have a couple things at 248, but before that it is a huge PITA), but you don't need to split gearing for that.
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the only time time you get tunneled for your gear level iin solos is if you dont have a known bad/meme class on you team. in which players will then target lowest gear rating.
this evaluation was not based on "being tunneled" it was based on how long my dcds protected me from inc damage. the difference was vast. I got tunneled in 230 by 3 good players (through my dcds, not globald) I lasted 10 whole seconds before I had to camo. in 248? I lasted under 3 dps tunnel (because I was known at that point for crumbling in 10 secs) I lasted for like 30 seconds before I had to camo, I still had undying after the 30 sec.
I'm sorry, I just don't believe this. You are basically saying that 248 gear vs 242 gear (since that is what 230 bolsters to) provides you with 3x as high DR. Either you are far off in your time estimate, you weren't being tunneled in the 248 gear, or the quality of the dps attacking you was vastly different (which seems the most likely, but also means that your example isn't really useful), or I suppose your teammates were just better and actually peeled for you and healed you (which again, means that your point is not proven at all). Regardless, 248 gear is not 3x as good as 242 gear.
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I founds it... it took me like 30 minutes. o0f
So I understand the math now, but expertise didn't give 30% dr. It gave 37.5% dr.
(1+.6)*(1-.375)=1.
There was no magical damage buff for expertise, it was just a way to separate PVP and PVE gear. The amount increased by extra damage was completely mitigated by the additional DR you get from wearing full expertise gear.
If both players aren't wearing full expertise, it was a different story, but if both were, there was no damage buff (Schook used the numbers you provided in the math you linked, but the numbers you provided in the first place were incorrect, which he then corrected later on in the thread by finding someone in actual full 2018 and seeing what the expertise bonuses were and using that to calculate).
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While i personally feel that this matchmaking isnt going to accomplish its objective i also havent been playing pts and thus really have no way of determining whether thats true or not.
This will be a bit of a nerf for premades in regs as its very unlikely any number of people greater than 4 will he together.
And that is exactly why we do not know our "rating" in regs. If we did - we would manipulate it.
I believe you and rafi are arguing philosophy at this point. He seems to feel any matchmaking is better than none and you seem to feel it doesn't matter either way.
Having followed the PTS forum (though not installed it, I don't have enough play time to make it worth it nowadays) it seems like the matches themselves tend to be fair, there are just some complaints about still too many healers getting onto teams. But the matches themselves seem to be relatively evenly matched.
:D:D
Bring Back The Original PT/VG Patch 3.0 - 4.0
in Vanguard / Powertech
Posted
OP specifically listed 2 PVE guides, so I assume that's what he was talking about, and pretty much all the stuff you mentioned were PvP nerfs (and also listed dps guides, not tank guides). If he was talking about PvP and tanks (the 2 things he didnt mention) I'm happy to have a discussion about that, but even there it was just bringing PTs in line with the range that other melee classes have (in fact it still has better range than all the other melee classes).
Shrug. You want 15m range back instead of an actual DCD, then go for it. I dont think it'll really help, but my PT isnt my main (and PvP isnt my focus) so of you think that'll fix its problems than that would be great.