I'm not questioning your ability to simultaneously hit one key and take off in a straight line. It's about being able to do this, not miss even a fraction of a second between hitting debilitate on a dancing mara then hitting countermeasures, and then not have to adjust the direction you're traveling in to avoid going off a ledge, avoid an obstacle, not run into a wall, and maintain LOS on the Mara and still be able to "face" him for every attack you throw while running. You're not doing that, and going the maximum possible distance unless you, and the conditions, are perfect. Like I said, you'll probably make it to 25-28m in a best case scenario. Yeah, my bad - I mostly stopped paying attention to the abilities you were using at the point you threw CG from >30m More on that at the end of this - regarding your points on my critique of the MM/Leth build you linked earlier. All I'll say about this is that good Maras use their cooldowns to kill you ASAP, not just to get away when they are losing because they didn't use their cooldowns. A key one, especially against a Leth sniper, is Cloak of Pain - essentially if you CG and CD a Mara, cloak of pain will give him 20% damage reduction and deal ~300 damage to you every 1.5 second for 30 seconds and hand him free rage every time your DoTs tick. A MM sniper can just leg shot him and start a rotation after 6 seconds of not hitting him - cloak of pain goes away if the mara isn't damaged for 6 seconds. A side note on this, there's a lot of whining about Mara/Sents at the moment, but what people forget is that when their awesome cooldowns are down, they drop faster than we Snipers do. Ok, here - I should not have to explain how since a) "It happens" - sometimes you just "come around a corner" and there's a Mara/Sent and b) we're literally theorycrafting "when a mara gets the jump on you". But I'll humour you, and say that he started with a Force charge - meaning he still has Force Camo on hand at the 4 second mark of your scenario, and he will catch you at which point you've got cover pulse, leg shot, and flashbang on hand, none of them will stop him for more that 2 seconds and he can use force choke and Deadly Throw on you if you pulse because you don't have Sector Ranger, he can keep hitting you while you run if you leg shot him, and flashbang = 100% resolve for him at this stage. Furthermore he still has Saber Ward, Undying Rage, Unleash, Obfuscate, possibly Predation or Bloodthirst up his sleeve.You are in a bad place. Did I also mention that if he's Vengeance spec, he was also immune to all CC for the first 4 seconds of the fight, so you also probably ate at least two ticks of a Ravage before you could debilitate him. Yes, Adrenaline probe is great, but it's a two minute cooldown unless you're heavy engineering. PVP is energy intensive I'll take every point I can get. I grouped these two together because you seem to have missed the memo on Lingering. When someone cleanses the full strength DoT, Lingering applies the weak one. It doesn't just kick in at the end of the duration. This also works on Ops/smugs that hit evasion to cleanse DoTs then vanish - oops, you still have a DoT on you and stealth is about to break... now. I can go into great detail as to why this is awesome, but I'm guessing a lightbulb just lit up over your head? This is exactly right about Lethal Dose, and I DoT up everyone I can, I gives me a nearly bottomless Energy pool which allows me to throw out energy intensive damage, and even Frag Spam. Here's my build 0/10/31 perhaps you can get a feel for how energy intensive it is. I dart everyone, It thins out cleanse resources, stretches healing resources, let's me "see thru walls" watching the damage flytext, and if it's left alone it hands me a little over 2 energy every 6 seconds for 27 seconds on average. Regarding Leth burst... a Large chunk of it comes from Cull yes, but if you actually want to kill someone in PVP gear, you're gonna add Explosive Probe, maybe a SoS, possibly a Shatter Shot in the set-up phase and then maybe a Frag Grenade before/after Takedown, there's that energy I was talking about. I've seen your sig, and if someone goes down that easy I tell them to go buy some recruit gear because they've got jack for expertise. True, and if you go way way way way way back to where this debate started, you'll find me saying something along the lines of "If the fight starts at 30m, MM and Leth can both slaughter a Mara, but if it starts at melee range, Leth is covered in Mara and MM can use a 5 second root, an 8 seconds root, a knockback on a 1.5 second cast ambush and an 8 second mezz.." Obviously I'm paraphrasing, but perhaps now you get my gist?

First, I claim you won't make it to 31.2m because you're not perfect. Second, your range is 30m, you should absolutely know this, but it's nice to see all that awesome stuff you imagine you can do from further than that. This is one of the reasons I've snipped at 4 seconds - you're not doing that magic corrosive grenade from >30m. Third, the mara wouldn't be able to leap to you at 11-12 because you're already in cover (and apparently 35m from him), you should really know this, but if he could it would interupt, which is why you should Cull a Mara from cover - which you didn't - you should also know that. Fourth, the other reason I snipped at 4 seconds is because, as I said earlier, this is the point at which he pops Force Camo and Cloak of Pain and you can't do anything to him for the next 4 seconds while he chases you down (he might even be specced for it to last 6 seconds at +50% speed instead of 4sec at +30%) - I think that covers your "find a way for him to do something" request. As for his CC break - it's called Unleash and I mentioned it already - you're Lethality, he's saving it for when he pops undying rage because it will restore 10% of his health and he doesn't need it for your Flashbang, you'll break that for him if you live long enough to hand him a that full resolve bar. I'm sorry, but at this point it looks like one of us knows how some basic Mara abilities interact with sniper abilities, and one of us doesn't... Hey, you seem to be having trouble even working out how far you can shoot.

I'd highly recommend Engineers Toolbelt from the Eng tree as your first two talent points, 3 second grenades is low level PVE and PVP LOL. After that, go wherever else you want, it's pretty hard to make a "bad" Sniper build under lvl 30-35 so feel free to play around with some builds.

I don't discount anything in Lethality - I even have Slip away, and counterstrike. You seem to discount global coodowns a lot.. but anyway, I can tell you exactly how far you can get away in 4 seconds with a 30% speed buff if you perfectly execute a debilitate then counterstrike without wasting even the ammount of time it takes to press one key after the other and then take off in a perfectly straight line. 31.2 m You won't get that far, in fact you'll probably get about 25-28m in a best case scenario. Do you know how far a mara can leap? 30m. A couple of tips - that Cull "setup" takes time, and you lose 1-2 seconds of the movement debuff on corrosive grenade in the debilitate duration depending on if you do Grenade or Dart first (tip, Dart first), whether or not you're a machine on the GCD, and it's a 30% debuff, not 50%. But here's the important thing, our Mara is no longer debilitated if you lead with both corrosives, debilitate has ended and you're on GCD and he's coming - he's angry. You also no longer have debilitate to use when he pops undying rage, if you try to use Flashbang your DoTs will kill it and you'll give him a full resolve bar which means no cover pulse, all you've got left from this distance is is a 2 second Leg Shot root which you can't use anyway because he just hit force camo and cloak of pain and you can't do anything to him for the next 4 seconds and guess how far he can go in that time, even with your corrosive grenade debuff on him. 24m Meaning that if you don't run he's on top of you again - hope you didn't blow Entrench already - and if you do run he can pop predation, be 10m away from you when camo wears off and slap you with a force choke, followed by a root from a saber throw and if you blow escape on either of them - well, oops! becuase you don't have a full resolve bar yet, you haven't even hit him with WB yet and his leap is gonna be off cooldown any second now and he has not even used unleash yet. From here - well it's not unwinnable for the Leth sniper, but it's not good after expending a lot more effort than, cover, pulse, entrench, probe, ambush -> rotation -> yay! Still have a full 8 second leg shot and I've got an 8 second flashbang and debilitate on hand for when he pops undying Seriously, you "prod" me with a "PVP" lethality build that doesn't have full Lethal Dose, Lingering Toxins, or Energy Tanks? And it still breaks it's own cover pulse, leg shot and flashbang. Let me know how far you get with a 2.5 second ambush in a Leth rotation with no Lingering and enemies that know where their cleanse buttons are... Look, you can continue to disagree with me if you really want, and throw out scenarios where Leth Snipers run 50m and use 6 attacks in 4 seconds, but the fact is: DoTs break pulse, flashbang and legshot early and without those DoTs Leth does garbage damage. This leaves Leth with 2 options, have the melee in your face, or do garbage damage trying to maintain distance. The MM sniper can maintain that distance better, while delivering full build damage. It's not a complicated comparison.

Unless you mod most of the accuracy out of your PVP gear, people basically need to pop a defensive CD to deflect Leg Shot with any reliability. Simply put, it lands far more often than not. If you don't need to apply DoTs, leg shot and cover pulse gives you up to 13 seconds of prep-time and distancing. Do you know how long the cooldown on leg shot is with Imp Demarcation? 13 seconds. Throw Heavy shot into the mix, and Resolve is not a great concern (cover pulse and Heavy will not give a full resolve bar, and even if you manage to fill it, leg shot is off resolve). As Lethality I get 4-5 seconds of roots from pulse/leg shot combined, 6 seconds if I'm really lucky. If you're not seeing how this is far from ideal against someone who can do massive damage in a very short time while in melee range, who can also spam a 50% speed debuff, who also has a gap closer that they can use if they're not rooted while you're trying to make distance and who very possibly starts with 4 seconds of complete CC immunity when they get the drop on you - I just don't know what to say. Basically once a competent, geared Mara/Sent is on you, it's a race to either get away or pray his defensives are on CD and kill him first at melee range - MM can get away nearly every time while still capitalising on their builds optimum damage dealing, Leth can not. I'm aware of that, which is why I said that running a build that drops 60-80% of it's root duration and ~75% of it's mezz duration to be able deal optimal damage makes you easier for a Mara/Sent to kill. Here's a tip, in 2 seconds you can move 6m with a crippling slash debuff on you. No Sniper build does more damage at melee range than a Mara does, and their defensive cooldowns blow ours out of the water. A sniper can't make distance if they DoT the Mara up, and if the sniper doesn't make distance he generally dies. Here's the thing, Leth and MM both mangle a mara at range. I'm in cover - he's 30m away - he's dead, if he blows all his cooldowns he might hurt me a bit before he drops. If a mara jumps on a leth sniper, the leth sniper has to forgo his damage until he makes distance, a MM sniper can pulse, probe, heavy ambush -> rotation and he's already dealing damage at full capacity with an 8 second root and an 8 second mezz up his sleeve and the mara on his back 15m away. Theorycraft, theorycraft, theorycraft, but can you see the difference?

Actually, it's not just flashbang. Cover pulse applies a 5s root, that breaks on damage after 2s. Leg Shot is an 8 second root, that breaks on damage after 2s. Basically, if you play Lethality you're gimping yourself pretty seriously against Marauder/Sentinels because you effectively remove 3 of your best tools for keeping them off you. This is also why adhesive corrosives is a "must have" talent for a PVP leth build. With Mara/Sents all over the place since 1.2, my opinion is that MM is more viable for PVP than it's ever been, since it's not DoT dependant, has Heavy Shot, Imperial Demarcation, Sector Ranger and more reliable roots and CC. I look at MM builds and see why Maras really cry about Snipers - as Leth I can kill them at range, and seriously hurt them before dying if they get on top of me, if I was MM they would hardly touch me.

Look - there's a lot of grieving over our lack of field tech BM Belts/Bracers. But look on the bright side, at least the WH field tech belt and bracers don't require a BM part for trade-in.

I'm also Aussie, and I run 250-300ms most of the time ( transfer can't come soon enough!!). I'm not talking when I drop into cover, then immediately pulse and they fly off in random directions - also known as pretty standard MMO lag situations. I'm talking when I'm in cover, someone runs up in front of me, I hit debilitate and it hits them, meaning the server agrees that they are in front of me, then a full GCD+ later I pulse and they fly off behind me.

I know people tend to forget Snipers and Gunslingers exist, but Shield probe/Defense screen is on both Imperial Agent/Smuggler ACs. It absorbs about 1.5k Static Barrier absorbs about 3-3.5k. Both shield probe and Static barrier (and their repub equivalents) absorb 100% of the damage dealt until they run out, so if you hit a someone with a 3.5k bubble for 2000, then 2000 again, you'll get "absorb" then a hit for 500. Basically it's extra health until it's used up, or wears off.

The problem with Hold your Ground is that it's a 2 point talent on a tier in the Lethality tree that already has 7 points of "must have" talents for a PVP Leth build. The positioning is outright appalling. No other AC is lugged with a "must have" 9 point tier in any of their trees Personally, I swear by Countermeasures, and consider having the added survivability of a 45 second CD 100% escape from snares more valuable than +8% crit on Cull and SoS. slightly off topic, but I think it's kind of rich that every single "survivabilty/escape" talent that snipers have is a 2-pointer, when Snipers are the only AC that has no self cleanse and no healing.

Not to suggest that this thread is not Valid, it is these issues need to continue to be reported until they are fixed, but Entrench and Cover pulse have never been reliable. Personally I think a lot of the problems with both skills come from the gap between entering cover, and being able to activate either skill . I'm finding that a lot of the time if I hit pulse or entrench and get CC'd in some way during that window period after entering cover, I blow my cooldown and the power never 'happens'. The worst and most frequent being when I'm knocked back, becase I remain "in cover" for some time while flying through the air so the power still goes off, uselessly, in flight. Other issues are annoying things like when you cover pulse and the guy goes 0.1 meters because there was a slight rise in terrain, or when you stun someone in front of you, then go to cover pulse to knock him off a ledge or into a Huttball hazard and bam, they fly off in the opposite direction in spite of the fact that your positioning has to have been correct - you can't debilitate someone behind your back.....

Entrench has one of the most obvious visible indicators of any buff in the game. Arguably the most obvious after the giant umbrella of ballistic shield. If the sniper has a little wall in front of them, they are not entrenched, and can be CC'd. If the sniper has a great big obvious bunker in front of them that extends halfway over the top and around the sides, they are entrenched. When a sniper is entrenched, don't try to stun or mezz/blind them, it won't work. Part of the tradeoff here is that you obviously don't need to root them, because if they move they lose entrench. I guess It should be considered slightly flattering to snipers that some kind of "nerf Snipers" thread has finally turned up. Although I'd say the OP is a gap closer class who doesn't like that he can't just stun then leap/pull on an entrenched sniper (like he can for the other 40 seconds of each minute).

Races to GTN to buy the cheapest greens and empty customs I can find. I CAN GET SCREENSHOTZ!!

I can't answer that categoracally, because I'm not part of the Dev team. But I would assume that its so it's possible to balance PVE content for classes that can heal, and classes that can't. As it is, classes that can heal tend to have an easier time (lower risk of death) in solo PVE content already, tip the scales further in their favour (by scaling healing at the same rate as damage) and you're looking at a pretty serious redesign across all content. For PVE content you have to be able to either kill faster, or live longer. If healing was 'equal' to DPS, damage would have to be higher to make things challenging for healers, which would be a death sentence to non-healing classes. Better to keep PVE as is, and place a balancing measure on PVP to keep healers in play.

Hahah - pretty low priority in my opinion, but I totally agree that better sorting methods/more filters for Vendors should be on the to-do list somewhere.

In addition to the expertise changes, there were a couple of DPS builds of certain ACs (some of which are suddenly now much more popular than they once were) that got outright DPS buffs, and there were a couple of Healing ACs that got outright Healing Nerfs. This resulted in two things: 1) Some ACs DPS specs do now do more damage than pre 1.2 2) Some healers abandoned healing because they felt robbed. Now, after all this drama, suddenly the ratio of healers to DPS in WZs changed, there are more DPS and less healers than pre 1.2. Now just think for a second, what would happen to TTK if there had been no 1.2, but suddenly half of your healers changed to DPS spec? Yep, that's right.

Aha - I see now that the "this" you were referring to when you quoted me was your original post, not the content of my post. All good.

A sorc guarding an objective alone and healing themself is helping their team - worth a medal for healing. A sorc sacrificing health to generate force to keep healing their team is helping their team, and they need to heal themselves after - worth a medal for healing. Can the game differentiate between the above and a sorc off in the corner sac/healing for medals? Not too well, but he won't get objective points for it, and they are also worth medals.

I answered this question in the other thread where you asked it, but anywyay: The reason is that damage scales better off raw stats than healing does. You can balance this in PVE by increasing the health of mobs at a faster rate than you increase their damage. In PVP, you need to give healing a bit of a bump to keep damage from outdistancing it through raw stats, it's balanced

The reason is that damage scales better off raw stats than healing does. You can balance this in PVE by increasing the health of mobs at a faster rate than you increase their damage. In PVP, you need to give healing a bit of a bump to keep damage from outdistancing it through raw stats, it's balanced.

What? No - my post is not referring to equally geared players at all, my post is specifically focused on unequal gearing. Every example in my post is the damage reduction for someone getting attacked by FULL BM. (close to a current "worst case" scenario). In my example, I showed that someone in full recruit gear suffers a mere 3.35% more damage when attacked by someone wearing full BM than they would if they were also wearing Full battlemaster. That was exactly my point, which is why I said people should be buying their Recruit gear when it's BiS. Read my post, don't assume I don't agree with or understand yours, I'm reinforcing your original point. You don't need to be in the same armour, Recruit gear is there to bridge the gap for you until you get the BM+ gear. Sure there is a Primary/Endurace deficit on the Recruit gear, but it's the expertise that takes the edge off the burst damage, which is what everyone is whining about, and which is what's making you drop faster than you can be healed. Here, say I'm in some PVE armour and have 17k health and zero expertise. If I get critted by a BM with 70% surge on an attack with a base damage of 2000 I'm going to take 4155 damage. Say I'm in Recruit gear and have 14k health and 900 expertise. That exact same hit, from the exact same BM as the example above will only deal 3514 damage. The recruit, ultimately, is receiving less damage per second when attacked, which means a healer can keep up with the damage he's taking much better. BUY YOUR RECRUIT GEAR.

It's probably also very important to point out how neccessary Expertise is to PVP now. When someone with full BM attacks someone with zero expertise, this is what happens: Say BM attacks for 2000 damage, expertise converts that to 2444 damage. No expertise, you're eating 2444 Centurion gear would reduce that to 2211 Champ gear will reduce it to 2145 Recruit gear will reduce it to 2067 Battle Master gear will reduce it to 2000 So in short, buy your recruit gear where it's BiS if you want to PVP. IMPORTANT NOTE: my numbers are slightly different from the ones in the OP because I did not round of the Damage increase/reduction % values.

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=399000&highlight=definitive That should do it

Only with if the mods are from BM gear, and the "shells" are uncrafted BM gear. So you can't do it with WH mods or have an augment slot. War heroe mods bring their set bonus with them, and "overwrite" the shell set bonus (you only get one set bonus). Actually, there was a very comprehensive and long BW post just before 1.2 was rolled out titled "The definitive Answer to PVP Armour in 1.2" (or something very close to that) that explained it in detail. That's how I found out...

LOL, the new rewards are crazy. Without even putting any real effort in, in two games this moring I got 70 comms for a loss and 130 for a win.