Stupiddrummer
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Posts posted by Stupiddrummer
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i must've missed the part where gamers are fine purchasing unfinished products.
A game should be finished when it's released, not rely on patches to fix things that should've been there since day one.
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Those that are new to MMO's may not fully appreciate this topics title. Let me explain. In most MMO's the "Real" game does not start until you reach the highest level and begin running the "so-called end-game content". Take the king of MMOS, WoW, as an example. The road from 1-85 is an excruciating one where nothing you do will have any impact on your toon at level 85. It is called a "grind" for a reason. WoW is not the only culprit here. Most MMOs follow this same broken paradigm.
SWTOR breaks the paradigm and sets a new one.
In SWTOR the "Real" game starts the moment you see the first cut-scene of your character. Starting at level 1 the decisions you make FORM your character. Each mission, each answer you chose has an impact. The game starts at level 1 -- not at the level end-cap! People, this is HUGE! It is genre-setting! It blows away the current MMO paraqdigm of grinding to end-cap levels.
This is why SWTOR succeeds. It is ground breaking in its approach. It amazingly combines the single player aspect with the MMO one. Dont let the complainers fool you either. There is an absolute TON of group content in this game. Yes -- It is an MMO in every aspect of the word EXCEPT it breaks the grind.
Your SWTOR life begins at level 1.
the game starts at max lvl because that's when you have the most people to play with.
There is always going to be more lvl 50s than lvl 14s. There is always going to be more lvl 50s than lvl 36s. There is always going to be more lvl 50s than lvl 40s. I hope you see what im getting at.
MMOs are designed for perpetual game-play, where the devs keep adding more content for you to complete until the game finally dies.
If you're playing a perpetual game, chances are you are going to get to max lvl. If you are still playing a perpetual game, chances are you are going to spend most of your time at max level.
The leveling process is designed to teach you howto play your class. Not be an end in itself. If you want your game to end at max level stop paying a subscription and pick up final fantasy 7 or something.
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I really enjoy the content of this game. But it is VERY disappointing that there are TONS of things that are broken.
Mobs that hide inside walls.
Force cloak doesn't disengage you from combat.
Force charge removes you from the world.
Quest items in ilum changed to "object has no name" and become unusable.
The list goes on and on and on AND ON.
Yes, I've played other mmo's near release, I haven't seen one that you had to pay for that is this buggy.
Rather than working feverishly on new content, can you please fix the old first?
Don't mistake me, swtor is an AMAZING game, and I really enjoy it. But quest breaking bugs (not to mention bugs that get me killed) are extremely frustrating.
It is really buggy. Even the dialogue parts have the signature Bioware frame stuttering and characters jumping in an out of the scene like in Mass Effect.
Most of the bugs in themselves aren't gamebreaking. But taken altogether it is pretty disheartening. I've never submitted more tickets in a game than i have in SWTOR, and pretty much all of those tickets were bug reports.
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We have a bar just for the cover mechanic but what about stealth? I dont see why we dont have 1, it saves space on the bars and on keybinds and it just makes thing easier especially since there arent any macros in-game to group abilites into 1 button (I.E. relics require their own keybind)
can we see this anytime soon, if at all?
The cover bar is really just skill bar 5. It just switches automatically to it when you go into cover. So you don't really have an extra bar, just an option enabled to switch to a certain bar when you enter cover.
I haven't played a stealth class, but i really do appreciate the convenience of my cover bar. I could see why stelathers would want a situational bar too. It's really a shame, because macros could easily fix this for people.
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Why is there no theory crafting? If there is any it's very little. Is it because the combat system is too simple? Is the talent system too simple? Or is the content too easy and there is just no need?
Theory crafting is a lot like a meta game. I not the math wiz the makes formulas, but I have an uncanny feel for what's right and enjoy reading the math.
So what's the deal, where is the theory crafting.
no combat logs, for one. You can checkout sithwarrior.com, i'm pretty sure those guys are actively penning down their numbers in order to analyze them...haha.
the content is easy, so there hasn't been a point where theory crafting was truly necessary beyond the hobby of doing it.
IMO, the majority of this games' market is story focused, and the majority of players couldn't be bothered with math or theory.
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The story is why I can't get to level 50. I keep switching from alt to alt due to the story of each class. Maybe this isn't the game for you?
Also, it's kind of ironic that someone that openly admits to spacebaring through the story elements claims the game to have a bad story. How do you even know if you aren't watching?
i spacebar to verify that the predictable story is still predictable.
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I played through the smuggler storyline. I'm with the OP, i found myself mashing the space bar more often then not. Even on class quests.
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If this game were like the movies, a lightsaber would slice people in half while cauterizing their innards.
Not to mention Luke's DPS was fine, (or else the Death Star wouldn't have gotten blown up) and could be verified by combat logs to avoid him being kicked from the group.
Like it or not, SWTOR is a game. I mean seriously, do you upgrade your mods? Because all mods do it provide statistical advancement, not aesthetic (except for color crystals). So if you ever once upgraded your mods you are lifting up your "precious" curtain.
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Will having combat log destroy the game or not ? --> Nope it won't
Will not having combat log destroy the game or not ? --> Nope it won't
People who like to do math and be better at their raid spot need this.
People who don't really care about math and wanna have fun don't need this.
On way or the other, it's in the devs hands.
Personnaly, I really don't care, one way or the other, but what I don't understand is the war that's going on between pros and cons ... why do you need to fight one another ?
Seriously, for the cons, will having combat logs ruin your game ?
Sure, some people using combat logs to get stats and be jerks, but they're already jerks, with or without it, they'll just prove it by showing numbers and using them to exclude people, but let's face it, they already exclude people that don't have a specific amount of health. But these are not the majority, most people want combat logs to better themselves in the role of their toon, is that bad ? Nah
Just my 2 cents
Good post!
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Just to be clear, one side here is arguing that we should add full combat logs and combat data into the game.
The other side here is arguing that the opposition shouldn't be given full combat logs and combat data.
Does that sound right?
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While I do understand the usefulness of combat logs... there are just too many avenues for misuse of the data... therefore...
I do NOT support combat logs that contain ANY data other than SELF data.
I don't think that needs any further clarification.
What counts as self data? What if someone heals me. Should i know how much i got healed for? What if they are self-conscious about their healing? Does that mean i'll look at my log, see that i took way more damage than i have HP, and assume i got healed?
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Every other MMO game out there does the same thing.
It just sounds like someone got a virus or logger from an untrusted site and wants to place the blame on someone other than themselves.
Its the frigging internet people. You are trying to say bioware is liable for YOUR actions. They are not liable for YOUR actions in any way, shape or form. End of story.
Well, other MMOs you could download addons if you wanted to. Nothing required it.
however, if you want to parse your combat logs, you have no choice but to seek out a 3rd party site. That's a pretty big difference.
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It's about liability.
If Bioware had decided to put their own tool in game, there would be 0% chance to get a keylogger from trying to download a parser.
since Bioware decided that you are free to download your own parser, you now have a > 0% chance to download a keylogger.
I just don't understand why Bioware is comfortable passing the liability onto the player, when the liability should really be a non-issue.
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If you go back to some of the Guild Summit comments, BioWare talks alot about displaying combat information in more cinematic ways. Visual effects as opposed to buff/debuff icons. There direction seems to be toward giving visual cues as to what is going as opposed to direct textual and numeric methods. For instance, you could totally have barless health where the opponent looks bloodier and wearier as his health decreases. Nailing that down and having it work at lower graphic settings would be prohibitive still but, many would welcome players that format.
I totally understand that many players have developed a taste for a playstyle with alot of incoming metrics data and they enjoy it but, BioWare is very much about wrapping video games in story and an immersive virtual reality NOT pulling back the curtain for streamlined competitive play. They allow it as they can but, their first priority is maintaining the adventure and part of that is distracting the players seeking their style of experience from numbers and programming behind it all.
Data-driven play isn't something wrong or evil but, players need to realize that BioWare allows that as long as it does not encroach upon their intended experience for this game. That means the onus shifts to working for the info one wants to maintain a barrier preventing hard numbers being forced into the the play of your more story-oriented players. Being judged is part of it but, piercing that veil shrouding the inner workings of the game is the larger issue.
Bioware/EA is very fluent in market-speak. Don't feel bad though they had me fooled at one point, too.
Remember how exciting and immersive they said the space combat would be? They didn't exactly lie, they just embellished on a lot of adjectives, and made a point to be incredibly vague.
How much more vague can it get than "combat information displayed in cinematic ways?" This is a game founded on rolling a D20, not trying to find meaning in an interpretive dance.
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People get their info stolen numerous ways but one of the top ways is via malicious web pages.
People are now going to be checking web pages that are offering ways to parse the offline combat log. It's a pretty safe wager not all of those web pages are going to have honest intent.
I am not sure why Bioware does not offer an in game version of combat parse so we can just check it right there. Instead we are going to have to rely on external sources. Sadly many players do not practice good web safety and they will get their accounts stolen.
This impacts us all because now the customer service people are even more tied up dealing with an issue that would have been very simple to avoid.
It's not going to be an issue, because the people still playing at 1.2 wont be bothered to look at combat data or download parsers.
Bioware has picked their target market.
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ooooo that would be nice
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better targeting.
-bigger hitboxes on players
-clickable name-plates
-intuitive tab targetting
-show target of target box
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Selective use of facts =/= logic. Blizzard have often said that they assume addons are being used when they create their raids/instances so they factor them in.
This would suggest to me, maybe not to you, that I (if I don't want to use addons) will be at a disadvantage against those who have the download and less likely to preform to your standard.
They are no different from downloading cheats from the internet.
I don't want to call you a liar but i'd love to see where blizzard said that.
Regardless, factor in =/= require.
and they are VERY different from cheats. I think i just stepped on a troll landmine.
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I'd like more difficult content as well and a slower leveling curve but that aside, the devs have all the metrics then need to ramp up difficulty right now.
They don't need to interact with "best raiders" as they already have that data available. They can easily see the mix of characters and abilities that are being used by groups clearing NM modes most efficiently. Conversely, they can also see a mix of the groups that are failing.
While they do have the data, it is much more efficient to out-source your data collection to the community. If every raider was able to look at their combat data from NM modes, that would be THAT many more people analyzing the fights. And bioware doesn't have to pay them...in fact, they pay Bioware (or EA...whatevs).
This is similar to how more bugs are spotted when games are released compared to being in Beta (or at least with this game, lol). Larger sample size helps increases the validity of the data and a larger group of data collectors helps with analysis.
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Haha so funny. The only thing in your list I see that would be fine to keep is Combat Log. Meters, no use except to create tunnel vision. Addons and macros ha. DBM tells you what ability and when it is going to happen. Talk about brainless. Same with a lot of other addons. Macros to chain multiple things together. Thought you guys wanted a challenge?
Personal Combat logs is all you need for YOU to improve. If your guild wants to collaborate data they can.
tunnel vision is a terrible argument. Blame the player not the tool.
i used Recount in WoW on my druid to gauge my overhealing at the end of battles.
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This was your quote, I bolded and underlined "Saying that combat logs will lead to an increase in undesirable behavior is a bold assumption and grounded in absolutely zero evidence."
I am pretty sure I understand it.
right. When i say evidence, that means another game under the same circumstances.
Considering that adding combat logs and meters to a game has never once in the past (as far as i know, hence, why i asked for an example) been attributed to the degradation of the community/culture.
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Right now, as the game is, devs can make it more challenging without giving players anything. Do you agree or disagree with that?
surely with a healthy relationship between devs and high end raiders, who can provide combat data, the devs are in a better position to fine tune the content the most extreme difficulty (the top end raiders) and tone it down from there.
I'm pretty sure that's what WoW did. Start from the ceiling and work down.
Not that I'm advocating impossible content, but i think it's more engaging to have players boggling their minds as to "WHY CANT WE BEAT THIS!" then to give them push over content that hardly requires gearing up.
basically, interaction between devs and the best raiders enables devs to fine-tune the numbers involved with the encounters.
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They have been stated numerous times in this thread but you toss them all as simply being "anecdotal".
I think you misunderstand. I was looking for an example of a game that didn't have logs or meters, but later added them, consequently ruining the community/game culture.
the closest thing that comes to mind is WoW. Which always had combat logs and meters.
and i'd attribute the decline in the community (the decline, be arguable in itself) to gained anonymity through cross server implements, and gear score.
edit; or if you could just name an MMO that released without combat logs or meters...lol
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I was answering your assertion about why that post has gained no traction. One of my points was that no one was going to argue the against an anecdotal story because it is a personal tale. I am fine with anecdotes in general. When that poster goes on to use that anecdote to prove the existance of elitism, which was not in question, it doesn't exactly elicit any more discussion. Taken as a whole, the post offered little to the discussion aside from showing how elitist do exist and will use whatever they have to work with.
I think most people with my perspective on combat logs would agree. It's why we are hesitant to offer them more tools. Would it have been productive for us to argue what no one was questioning?
All of the anecdotes, regardless of the side of the argument someone was on, have all just been about elitest jerks. The difference is some anecdotes are blaming jerky behavior on in game tools.
i'll sit here and wait for the anecdote about the guy that was immersed in the story, but once combat metrics were available, found that he could only focus on the numbers and tunnel vision DPS, only to realize months later that he couldn't even remember what he had named his character....
Guys, TOR Is a new game, give it time.
in General Discussion
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first of all. you dont pay a monthly sub for minecraft.
secondly, it was finished. It was just in beta for so long that you could consider that the real game.
Adding more content for free later doesn't equal unfinished.