Good review Couple things to add. Assisting is important for DPS. Dont be a lone ranger >< Map is your friend. Little hint here. Take a look at the map. Find who is solo guarding by themselves. Set them to be focus target. The moment you see them either take dmg or use power/build focus/rage. Better start heading in their direction. If there are 7 of you, and only 3 enemies, drop combat and speed burst like crazy to the off node. Watch your enemy groups make up. If you notice a few stealthers in there. Dont let your off node be solo defended. Dont stand near the node if you are guarding. Stand atleast 20m away so they cant mez then cap the node. Dont stand on the edge of the endzone in hutt ball. Dont stand on the edge of the endzone in hutt ball. Did I mention,......dont stand on the edge of the endzone in huttball. Know when to hold, and when to fold =)

Supposedly your gear is in line with partisan or might be better. It probably has beeter dmg but less mitigation. one of my char.s are in 66's and I've tested partisan, more exp, but lower dps, bonus dps, HP, crit, surge, etc. But with partisan I have better dmg mitigation. So really just PvP in whatever until you earn your conq set.

Well I'd say animal mounts are simply a matter of time. I could see Swoop racing maybe before 3.0 if they intend to do it. SSSP is coming though I think it will be after 3.0, just a guess. Pazaak would be in one of their QoL patches. Maybe 3.2? What species and Planet? Naboo? with a Gungan Companion? I doubt it will be a non-basic speaking Race so perhaps (sorry I dont know the name of the race) Ashara's race?

Another...little easier way, would be jump click on search on the top of your screen. And then type your name in the field for posts made by and click enter. It will show every thread you've ever posted in.

All complaints of trolling aside... excellent necro thread. Way to get a good laugh in. I mean we are here to have some fun after all. So make some perdictions for 2.4-2.7. Maybe we can necro this thread in a few months again. And nothing we already know....thats just cheating!!!

Well if your talking about Elder game FPs, they were just HM versions of FPs that you start doing at....oh lvl 15. So it is doubtful that many people havent seen the story. Besides the HM versions dont have the intro cutscenes or the exist completion cut scenes. All you get is that short do I kill the scientists cutscene or whatever. Now if your talking about Ops, well if your doing HM, then yes they've all seen it. If your doing SM then most likely they've seen it. and if they havent they wont admit it cause they are affraid of being kicked from group if they dont spacebar. That being said...there are 3 general factors that make MMOs so successful. Imersion, Progression, and Social Networking If your lvl 55, you probably have already lost your imersion in the game. Thats pretty much there to bring you into the game. Progression then becomes the most important, and since this game lacks meaningful linear progressions, gear is the only way to progress in a measurable way. Thus the answer to your question, gear means everything. Finally social networking comes into play usually to either accomplish Progression, refind the imersion, or keep interested in the game after completing the progression. Remember most gamers arnt used to MMO style of games. There used to spending 24 hourss beating the game. So when you put them into an MMO which is suppose to be a persistant world with no real end of game moment, they will still find one which is usually matched up with the final set of gear. Unfortunate but true.

its more than confusing, its pointless. the game applies a debuff whenever you pvp. Expertise nullifies this debuff. The amount of expertise use to varry with different sets. Meaning higher sets nullified more of the debuff than lower sets. This is no longer the case. Both PvP sets contain the same exp value. Bolster grants a minimum level of stats including expertise in WZ to help shorted the gap between new and old players. wait....let me say that again.... we are applying a stat that makes PvP gear overcome a debuff, and then granting the same stat in WZ to non PvP gear for the exact same purpose..... If Bioware thinks everyone should have atleast 1500 exp (about what you get for end game raiding gear).....then why not just lower the expertise on gear too 500, dont bolster anymore, and lessen then impact of the PvP debuff? or Remove expertise, and adjust the pvp debuff where you want it. Remove the separation of gear sets and make them all equal. I have another lengthy post about this, check my history for it. Overal something has to be done.

I like you cash, always fun arguing with ya, but technically speaking, expertise does impact TTK as not all players are running around with "proper gear" because bolster impacts different gear is such different ways. Also bonus dmg increased absolutely, but surge and crit took a hit. Making abilities with bonus to crit far more important in the greater scheme of things. The problem I see is that dmg mitigation from not capping Expertise took a hit while bonus dmg seems to favor those that stack PvE gear. Resulting in more dmg overall expecially on targets with PvE gear. Besides I think this is a pre-55 complaint mostly, in which case it comes down to Augments. That is what is separating the dead from the living atm.

While I am normally all for new ideas and abilities, anything to change the pace... I dont think this game needs any more new forms of CC...period.

qft

The lack of a match making system is certainly driving away potential players to pvp. Much like the need to run dailies or spend enormous amounts of money on crafted mods drives players away from Elder PvE content. Bolster was an attempt to bring PvE players into PvP. But I dont think gear was the primary disadvantage players had, expecially casual or first time PvP'rs. Joining matches just to face against a double premade in top rated gear with over a year of practice and all the tactics already planned out, its just too much. Giving away expertise doent do much for the end cause and only reflects how narrow minded we have been about the issues of separation and inclusion.

"I suspect now that you are one of those PvPers who has an unrealistic view regarding the importance of PvP to TOR. PvP is an add-on mini-game, like space combat, albeit a more engaging one, seemingly. If every player who considers him- or herself primarily a PvPer quit the game, no one would notice, I am certain. " I have only done a hand ful of WZ since 2.0. While I have been imersed in End game FPS/OPs. So no, dont judge me. Also you would have known this had you completely read my OP. And for that last sentence, look at how fast the game went F2P after the first mas exodus following the release of the game. The game has lost close too if not over 2 mil players. PvP was considered a large reason for people leaving. Also most end game PvP'rs are subscribers due to the need to pay for joining WZs. So even if only 15% of the population are PvP'rs and leave, it would have a dramatic impact and yes.....you would notice, that I am certain of. As far as WZ participation here is one source that took me all of 20 seconds to find. http://www.swtor.com/info/news/blog/20121130 I think you have an unrealistic view of the significance of PvP in ToR. And while you may never participate in PvP, dont count out the people who will and who do.

there could be alot of different aspects added like mobile tanks or something. My goal was to create something that the devs would think goes well with the other wz, while getting away from defending turrets. I know we dont have a good CTF WZ and this is kinda a off take of CTF mixed with a Death Match ending. So the CTF portion is simply going to get the 3 ammo drops. There could be like 12 possible drop locations and which ones get the ammo drop should be random. So players will need to not only go to the ammo and retrieve it, but find it first, and then protect it while moving it back to their spot. Also since there are 3 ammos up each round, it doesnt become a game of first one to it, give to tank, and super heal him until he walks it back. Lots of different opportunities for fun. The Death Match portion comes at the end after ones base is destroyed. It doesnt end the match. The match doesnt end until all players have been defeated after the base is destroyed. It also makes for a good use of combat rezes. And for the setting, I was thinking of something from a WW2 movie like Saving Private Ryan when they are tryin to defend the bridge. Towers or tall buildings for the snipers, alley ways and blown up buildings for ambushes and many different hiding spots. Also for people who dont think 32 people matches can be done, PoT5 has been running 100+ OW events and they are still barable if you turn down your settings. 32 person matches should be a cake walk. The lag you get from 16 man matchs isnt because there are too many people.

I believe your words were "People play the game so they can have fun, not so others can have fun" This implies that my idea would increase other people's "fun" at the expense of "they" or as I took it "you". as per your first comment. Bioware has already released numbers indicating that people spent more time in WZs and the Fleet than any other activity in the game. By their numbers, PvP is a very big part of the game. As too your final comment. Players are fragmented. We agree on that. But I dont agree that nothing will change that. Put it this way. A significant portion of the population does WZs. Almost as many do FPs/OPs or other aspects of the game. this game has made it difficult to traverse between the two post 55. Prior to 55 you can easily shift from one to the other. Players will interact with other players because this is an MMO. Now if mechanics of the game were set to bring players together, than infact they would come together. Does that mean all players will suddenly start participating in all aspects of the game? No. That will probably never happen. What I've asked for is to first break down the barriers that Separate players post 55, and give purpose to participating in all aspects of the game rather than focusing entirely on one. I'm mostly confused by your comments. On one hand you state you dont PvP, do FPs, or OPs (which in my opinion is Elder game content) yet you post in a thread that is looking at changing the separation between elder game content. Are you simply arguing with me for the sake of arguing? or is there a point your trying to get at? Did I miss something about how my ideas will somehow impact those that dont participate in elder game content?

Interesting. Since most of this game is "instances" or PvP. Story line has instances, FPs, Ops, WZ, Planet quests, Space Missions. Even the planets themselves are broken into different instances? I dont see how any of my ideas inpact you or prevent you from having fun. It doent force anyone to do anything. It simply encourages players to see more of the game then what this game's tunnel vision currently shows without penalty. Now this may impact high end PvP'rs. Simply because they will have a new set of gear to work for that doesnt come from PvP, but only the final set. It probably wont significantly impact lower end PvP'rs as the ranking system with match making will be placing people of equal rank(skill) with each other. Thus you may see some KD geared players go against UW or AK geared players but only because the KD player isnt as good of a player. In order to increase your ranking you'll probably need more skill and better gear. Only the top ranked PvP will be significantly impacted by BOTH skill and KD gear as it should take both to become top ranked. Another way of looking at it is this. Your highest ranked players will be equal skill, with equal skill, gear will matter. If skill isnt equal that gear may bridge the gap, so your second teir players will either be less geared but higher skill, or lesser skilled with higher gear. Then your third teir player lacks the highest skill and the highest gear. this will be a stepping ladder. So each rank of gear mixed with different levels of skill will rank the player. As a player gains better gear or becomes a better PvP'r, they will work their way up the ladder to the next teir. While I didnt want to go into too much detail about match making you can look up my earlier post here. http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=641219 be warned that it is another lengthy post.

I know it was alot of typing. And its hard to find people that have the attention span to fully read and comprehend what I write. At the same time I feel that some topics need alot of explanation. Short comments dont seem to have the same impact as a well thought out idea. If it makes you feel better.....that was my short version =)

thats why i opted for bell towers. you can shoot down at people.

Ok I'll take some time to cover some of the concerns: First, I've been in MMOs for over 13 years. So my take on when the sepratists took over? UO - Merged game. Mostly PvE with some fun PvP. No Separation here. DAOC - Absolutely merged game. Focus was PvP with PvE gear and level progression. War - Merged game. Focus was a PvE centric PvP experience. Tried to hard to mix the two. Both gear progressions but lateral. WoW - honestly didnt play this horrible game very long. PvE focused game with instanced PvP afterthought. Created the sepratist concepts IMO between PvP and PvE. Random games (SWG, GW, RoM, LoTR, a few Korean games, etc) All of these fiddled around with sepratist and inclusive mechanics. I never played these games for too long as I didnt really enjoy most of them. So I'll try to keep my opinions off of them for now. SWTOR - PvE game with a mini Warzone PvP experience. Now here is the kicker, Huge number of subs focused entirely on this small aspect of PvP. Absolutely sepratist though not as much in the beginning. With each patch we see the groups divided more and more. So to the peope out there that think sepratisim is somehow linked to player preference, you might have a point, but it would appear that over history, it is not the player that drives the sepratist feelings, but the mechanics built into the game. Take my experience. My first year in game I focused almost entirely on PvP. because that is the aspect that I enjoy in mmo's. If a game doesnt have strong PvP, i wont play it for long. But that doesnt mean I wont enjoy PvE. when the PvE is good, it provides the breaks from PvP to keep the game interesting and fun. Now in my plan, I provide two equal paths for players to travel depending on refence that players can traverse between while playing SW. Think about the existing 1-54 content. You can switch between PvP and PvE easily because the progressions are the same. It isnt until end game content that we begin to separate our players. What I do is suggest we keep the linear progression between the two until the final aspects. PvE will shift to the last gear set while PvP would contain the Valor Skill progression. So if you wanted to almost strictly PvP, you could skip all endgame content except the NM Ops. It would be the ONLY aspect that you would need to complete. Thats what....1-2 nights out of the week to run an OPS or two? or you could PvE up to get say Underworld gear and then bounce back and forth between Ops and WZs to get your valor and 75 gear. Or you could mix it up and do both end game content and PvE to get gear since they are equal. There is no reason to separate your players. If a good match making system were in place, when you PvP you'd be going up against players of equal skill (ranking) and that would certainly help all players get involved in PvP. and if the reason for PvP were valor based rather than gear based, you'd have a pretty darn good reason to PvP without the problem of having to compete every match against oponents that are going to simply blow you away and make PvP unenjoyable. What we need is two separate reasons to do endgame. PvP needs purpose, and gear shouldnt be that purpose. the best progression for PvP is a valor skill progression. While gear can remain the end level progression for PvE.

So something that has annoyed me for quite some time (if you havent figured it out from my other posts) is the sometime extreme steps developers go through to separate PvP and PvE to the extent that there appears to be hate, or atleast despise toward players of the other group. It seems that Bioware has created two games in one. You can progress separately through each. Crossing over from one to the other is difficult at best. But attempts are made to bring atleast PvE'rs into PvP via bolster. Now before you jump on me, this isnt a pro-bolster or anti-bolster thread. Its more of a "*** were you thinking" thread =) As I understand it. Expertise is here to make PvP gear BIS for PvP. But bolster is here to make sure PvE gear is competitive in PvP. so ummmmmm, why not just remove expertise? or atleast make it less effective? Then you have no need to bolster. Also if you improve PvP gear to be comparable to PvE gear....then it entices PvP players to participate in PvE. Which I think would be a good thing since you made all this great PvE content and have a significant portion of your population that doesnt even see it. Also it would seem more logical that you would want to be more inclusive in your game mechanics. The more people participating in the most content, the less likely they will become bored of a single aspect of the game. How many players quit the game because PvP has been so stagnent, and yet have never completed a HM FP or OPs? I know for the first year I played I didnt do a single OPs. Hell I leveled multiple toons to 50 without completing a story past the first 2 planets. Get my ship and PvP too 50. Sometimes I'd run my 50 through Story lines just to get more companions to send out on slicing missions or level up my biochem. It wasnt until 2.0 and the massive problems with PvP that I finally had enough. But instead of quiting I decided to do some FPs and Ops. A few weeks ago I ran my first Ops group and had a blast. (even if I didnt do very well, sorry for those that had to suffer through my first tanking of TFB) But it got me thinking. I've been having fun again because everything I'm doing is fresh for me. If more players participated in ALL aspects of the game, they would be less likely to grow bored of the game and leave. But that begs the question, how do we do this and still keep things semi-balanced for progression sake. Here goes: Step 1: Remove Expertise and Bolster. Step 2: Make Partisan lvl 53 gear, and equal to 66 mods. Make Conqueror 69s, Make a new set of Elite Conq at 72s. Step 3: All 75 gear is obtainable only through Completing weekly/dailies with NM OPS or even soon to come NM FPS. Step 4: Create a new reason to PvP without using gear progression. For example, in games like DAOC you had realm ranks. You could do the same with Valor. Valor Ranks giving Valor Points to spend in a Valor tree. It would be a linear progression. This would also encourage (but not force) PvE players to PvP. Step 5: Create a Matchmaking system for PvP that pits players of equal skill (ranking) against and with each other. Check my post history for a detailed explanation of this. Step 6: Not everyone likes WZ for PvP. Some like larger battlefields, smaller arena style, Open World, Objective based PvP. Create new ways to PvP so WZ arnt the only way to get Valor. Even just granting valor for player kills on Planets would go a long way. The goal is to fundamentaly join our players together rather than tear them apart. Ok thats enough typing for me.

Perhaps a new WZ. rule set: 2x 16 man teams (total 32 players) Objective: (CTF) Gather ammo and return them to base duration: ? setting: Heavy urban area. Plenty of blown up buildings and rubble. Lots of hiding places. Minimal open areas. Elevated sniper locations like bell towers. Large area. Perhaps the size of Outlaws Den. Mission: Gather ammo and bring back to base to fire at the opponents respawn area. 3 ammos are dropped each round. Requires 10 ammo to destroy enemy base. Once base is destroyed players will no longer respawn in safe area. Even after base is destroyed players can still collect ammo to fire at enemy base. Match ends once respawn base is destroyed and all players on that team have been defeated. rewards: rewards should be round based. 10 comms for each ammo shot. 25 comms for destroying enemy base. 25 comms for win. 5 coms for each medal. 10 comms if your team's base survives. 200 comm max.

You mean that the wise man...

Bolster is simply an attempt to fix something that we as players asked the gaming companies to break! Yeah I said it. Now let me explain Long long time ago in a Galaxy far far away, there was no distinction between PvP players and PvE players. There were just gamers. And some enjoyed pvp more than others. And those players asked the MMO gods "wouldnt it be great if I could level and get my gear through pvp." And the MMO Gods responded by creating PvP gear. And then the PvP players said, why is my gear not better for PvP then PvE gear. "Wouldnt it be cool if my pvp gear was better than pve gear in pvp" and the MMO Gods responded by creating expertise and then the PvE player said, why is my gear not better for PvE then PvP gear. "Wouldnt it be cool if PvE gear was best for PvE and PvP gear was best for PvP. and the MMO Gods responded by giving PvE gear better stats and then the casual player said, wait, I dont have time to grind two sets of gear. I like doing both PvE, and PvP and until recently I could do both. But now I cant. If I go into PvP I get destroyed by those who only PvP. "wouldnt it be cool if I got free gear that atleast got me into a competitive place to pvp?" and the MMO Gods responded by creating recruit gear. and then the PvP players said wait, not everyone uses the recruit gear, these casual players are ruining PvP because I have to group with them and they wont wear the recruit gear. "wouldnt it be cool if you forced players to have a minimum stat/expertise level before entering a WZ?" and the MMO Gods responded by creating bolster. and then all the players cried. Bolster removes progression of gear in PvP. It allows pve'rs to pvp but not PvP'rs to PvE. Its too complicated with too many ways to cheat it. Nothing makes sense anymore. And the wise man stood up, shook his head and said "be careful what you ask for, you just might get it." and walked away.

Your thinking too much along the lines of checker strategy. In checkers, all pieces are equal and perform equally. This game is more like chess. Each piece has different unique qualities and requires much more strategy to win. Sometimes you sacrafice to gain positioning. Sometimes a sacrifice cost you the match. Unfortunately warzones are run by 16 different people, while chess is a game between 2. Thus sometimes strategies arnt put together well with each other and gets a bit chaotic. But then again, isnt that where the fun lies?

That will depend on group make up more than anything. For example, got 2 good healers and 2 good tanks. Take those 4 plus 1 to south. They can probably hold 5 v 7 indefinitely. That leaves one to defend and 2 to attack far turret. Take two sides and if they are stealthers, they can hold that far turret long enough to get defenders. Then their team will need to send massive numbers to their near to retake, while your respawners can go take a nearly undefended south. There is more to strategy then accepting 1 plan and always going for it. The 2 near 6 south or 1 near 7 south strategy works better when your dps heavy. If your not, other strategies will come in handy.

I have a dream that one day this game will rise up and live out the true meaning of its creed: We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all players are created equal. I have a dream that one day on the red hills of Tatoine, the sons of former PvP'rs and the sons of former PvE'rs will be able to sit down together at the table of brotherhood. I have a dream that one day even the Planet of Makeb, a planet sweltering with the heat of injustice, sweltering with the heat of oppression, will be transformed into an oasis of freedom and justice. I have a dream, that my four little sith children, will one day live in a galaxy far far away, where they will not be judged by the content they play, but by the content of their character. I have a dream today! I have a dreeam that one day, down in Alderann, with its vicious PvP and PvE racists, with its governor having his lips dripping with the words of interposition and nullification, one day right there in Alderann, little PvP boys and PvP girls will be able to join hands with little PvE boys and PvE girls as sisters and brothers. I have a dream today! Down with separatists. down with the haters!