the reason is because class buffs give you 5% more to stats. That means you get 5% more to your stats received from augments. Just augments gets you +448 mainstat with 5% class buff gets +470.4 mainstat with 9% skill tree buff +488.32 mainstat with both buffs +510 mainstat So stacking mainstat over power yields 74 more to mainstat than power. power = .23x448=103 bonus dmg mainstat = .2 x510 = 102 bonus dmg with 1.4% difference in crit chance. if you convert that 1.4 extra crit to dmg assuming 60% surge, thats an extra bonus dmg og 240.24 over 100 attacks or 144.76 extra bonus dmg every 100 attacks stacking mainstat with 9% skill tree buff. so that means bonus dmg of 1.4476 Finally Power = 103 dps mainstat = 104.5 dps

to put this into perspective, the difference between power and stacking mainstat is that over 100 attacks, if your power build averages 7k heal, over 100 heals, your main stat will average 7.1k per heal over 100 heals. while a mainstat without buff will yield about 6.95k per heal over 100 heals.

and just to clarify, all this is determined by dmg over a long range of time. or heals over a long period of time. Having abilities that increase chance of crit are obviously going to have a greater impact than stacking mainstat. So if you abilities give you over 60% chance to crit, for short fights power will have the advantage, while over long fights Mainstat will. Mainstats bonus dmg is also impacted by your surge rating. So the higher your surge, the more difference in stacking mainstat will have. while the lower your surge, the less impact you'll see. Even with 60% surge the impact is less than 1.5% dmg increase. All in all, the key is to get Augmented, more so then which one to stack.

if you convert that 1.4 extra crit to dmg assuming 60% surge, thats an extra bonus dmg og 240.24 over 100 attacks or 144.76 extra bonus dmg every 100 attacks stacking mainstat with 9% skill tree buff. So as far as BiS If you have 9% buff the dps equals 1.4476 higher with main stat over power 6% is about equal and no buff to mainstat means power is better. All of these formulas show less than 1.5% total difference is dmg (1.33% difference between power and mainstat depending on buff)

and this thread has been moved

Anytime someone corrects another person's grammer or spelling on an online game's community forum.....its with the purpose to bash them. This may be a subconscious act, but it is to bring down the other person and/or lift themselves up. An attempt at either self gratification or crying for attention. Though sometimes its just poking fun. The truth is we are not writing papers, we are communicating using text as a medium. While correct grammer is often timese thrown out the window, it is usually unnecessary to begin with.

I bet its more along the size of section X

My statistics are fact. As far as your set bonuses go, to get Underworld OPs it takes 8 people. If you play with the same 8 people every time you run the ops, 2 ops a week(plus TC), soon to be 4 Ops a week, well say average 5 drops?(Because we dont know what the next 2 will have) you could be making (current) 10 possible chances every week (later will be 20ish) to get a drop. If you fail to get your drop, its ok, you can get the same armor without the bonuses until you do with the comms that drop. But just talking about the set pieces, thats 10 chances, 5 pieces with set bonuses, 8 members, 40 total slots to be filled, 4 weeks and you should have it. With the opportunity to get it one the first run. Now lets talk PvP gear, average 100 comms per match, you need 3200ish ranked for the chest, PLUS you need to partisan chest, anuther 1500ish regular, for a total of close to 11,000ish comms. Thats 110 matches Thats about 27ish hours of PvP. For one piece? Play the same 8 guys in a wz, they average 1 piece every 27 hours, 8 pieces total, while your 8 people in a flashpoint will get 10 pieces in about 4 hours. AND have the opportunity to get non set bonus pieces through comms, AND more money.

Here is an interesting statistic. 50% of all Warzone matches ends in a loss. Statistically over 50% of players will fail to receive a win (loss+quitters/LDs) My experience, which obviously isnt as easy to make a global statement, just my experience, is that 99.9% of all PvE content that I have attempted has ended in a win. Just clearing trash earns you credits to buy you gear

Ok lets say you do that, run "amok" and lose. You earn your 60 comms. I assume your trying for the high end mods. Even cheap conq gear will run you 2k ranked comms, thats 6k regular comms. At 60 comms a match, thats 100 matches, even at 100 comms per match thats 60 matches? So thats 15-25 hours of gameplay. For one piece and one chance to reeng it? Your better off playing the objectives and winning, having fun playing the game then, as you say.....running amok.

I wonder if this problem will exist with Arenas.....going to love 2v4 or 1v4.

What was broken (sorta) was entry level PvP was so far behind Vet PvP. What they changed was making the gap between PvE and PvP gear wider, increase the effect of expertise, and replace recruit gear with bolster. I would hardly say they "fixed" anything. It took months just to get bolster into a reasonable level. And while it is mostly "fixed" it still hasnt "fixed" PvP. Gear has never been the primary issue for PvP. Lack of variation to PvP, lack of a Match-making system, useless Valor system, lack of PvP content or lack of PvP maps. How is it that the most entertaining moments of PvP for many of us is player held World PvP events? Which is so funny because its the aspect that Bioware seems dead set on destroying. Recruit vs Bolster wasnt the problem, in fact bolster (if working correctly) is a better system. It is this sepratistic concepts that tell us that PvP and PvE should never cross paths. That they should walk different paths with zero cross over, that is the problem. You punish players who want to play both aspects of the game. You punish players who just want to try out a different aspect of the game. You intentially put up baracades to Prevent players from crossing over all because of some heated debate on whos better or who has it rougher gearing up, or which activity takes the most skill. Total BS. And you all should be ashamed to take part in that conversation. Both PvE and PvP have their goods and bads. We shouldnt try to separate each other because of our differences, we should try to build bridges to each other, because of those same differences.

your opinion, certainly not fact. if this was true, there would be outrage that lvl 10-54 can aquire their gear from either venues. Trueth is that it works just fine. you dont read any complaints about people doing heroics or early level content in gear obtained through pvp. your misinformed if you think that it would somehow break the game to do it post 55. To the extent that Bioware made bolster to Ensure pve players remain competitve in pvp regardless of gear. So if PvE gear is good enough to PvP in.....why isnt PvP gear good enough to PvE in? When it works just fine the first 54 levels in this game.

I dont agree that it takes much effort or skill to complete FPs/Ops. Maybe the first time you run it. Perhaps if you have a terrible group. In most of my experiences, its speed runs through PvE content to grab the gear and go. Spacebar all the way, skip half the mobs if possible. Dont sit there and tell me it takes a special kind of player to gear up in PvE.

So the general setiment is to screw over PvP gearing so that PvP players cant skip tiers of PvE content. While at the same time allowing next to final sets of gear be craftible? So I guess crafting your end game gear is better than PvPing to get end game gear? And as far as gearing up. PvP takes time, PvE gear takes time.....are they similar? I dunno. I've gear'd up in both and all I can say is it was easier in PvE, simply because all my guild had to do was run stagnent FPS. Thats unlimited runs for all 69's. Then run the 3 ops (soon to be 5) once a week to get 72's. As far as BIS (min/max) PvP gear is just as bad as PvE gear. Both sides have to replace mods and enhancements. All of this is besides the point. The point is that we are debuff/expertise/bolster everyone who enters warzones. It does nothing for us except for make PvP gear less effective in PvE. So back to my original thought, who cares about the PvP aspect aslong as those dirty PvP'rs dont join our precisious OPs groups. pathetic if you ask me.

They could continue to add new levels of gear without the need for expertise and the debuff. A certain level of bolster may be required or the previous sets of gear made attainable prior to max level. For example when the next set comes out make partisan either free or attainable by level 53. Generally speaking its easier to release new tiers of gear with level increases. There are many different options though. The current option just doesnt seem to be within a reasonable expectation of logic. Its so.....counter productive.

off topic but a valid point

Ok, so I dont think I made my original Post clear. This ISNT about why we have bolster. I Get it, I really do, I disagree with it, but that isnt what I'm asking. My question revolves around the ENTRIE mechanic of PvP as it relates to gear/stats You see bolster is only a small portion of that equation Expertise is another, the debuff, starting stats, desired or initial stats, That are lots of spinning wheels or cogs in this mechanic....NOT JUST BOLSTER. So please stop preaching about bolster, I'm not here to argue about it. What I would like to know, is why we have a system that debuffs, then rebuffs with expertise, on ALL PLAYERS. This means even if you dont have a single piece of gear, we are granting you FREE expertise for the sole purpose of making you competitive, because BIOWARE decided to put in a DEBUFF. The expertise does nothing but counter the debuff, and since expertise is freely awarded to all gear (amounts may vary) we are essentially countering the debuff.

I'll put it into a mathimatical concept. Understand that not all values are equal, the equaiton shows train of thougt not specific raw information. X= Target (minimum) Stats Y=Players Current Stats B=Bolstered Stats D=PvPdebuff to Stats Z=Players Stats after Debuff E=Effects of Expertise F=Final Stats for PvP X-Y=B Y+B-D=Z when D=E Z+E=F What does F then equal? F=Z+E sub F=Y+B-D+E sub F=Y+B-D+D sub F=Y+X-Y-D+D add/subtract like terms Y-Y=0 D-D=0 F=X+0+0 F=X We are back where we started.

So this has been bothering me for some time now and I was hoping to get some clarification on the purpose of our current system in regards to pvp mechanics. First of all this isnt a direct job at bolster (im sure its taken enough of a beating in these forums) As I understand it, in order to balance PvE and PvP dmg we instituted a debuff. These has always been there to reduce the over all dmg and healing done throuh pvp. Lets face it our opponents dont carry 6mil in hp in a wz. I get it. Then, in order to make PvP gear worthwhile for PvP gameplay, we introduced a stat called expertise that significantly reduces the effects of the debuff if not overwriting it altogether. Ok I sorta understand why this was done. Then in order to balance PvP gear to PvE gear, so that PvP gear cant act as a supplement to high end PvE gear, we lower the stats on PvP gear, and increase the expertise stat. Like taking expertise from 1.3k to 2k. I follow you even if I dont agree. Then we bolster all gear to have the same expertise or the same stats as PvP gear.....Ok now I'm lost. Isnt this exactly where we started before the debuff? Here's the short version We debuff all players in PvP, then automatically grant them expertise, through bolster.....too remove the debuff in PvP? do I need to even ask? Why? It reminds me of the Direct TV commericals, When you have cable tv, you feel like a loser, when you feel like a loser, you attend a seminar, when you attend a seminar, you feel like a winner. When you feel like a winner, you go to vegas, and when you go to Vegas, you lose everything, when you lose everything, you end up selling your hair. Dont sell your hair, get rid of cable and upgrade to Direct TV.

This thread is so win

Its not the term soon that gets you a riot Its releasing information that wasnt expected and then stating more info ....soon.... As far as Arenas, its been announced, we know when well get it, We know the size and the number or maps. We know the rule set (For the most part) The questions being asked now are the specifics. We know well find out no later than release and we know that the information we do get is not going to incite a riot. What will incite a riot is if they said arenas are the only thing were getting this year for PvP, but soon well let ya know what to expect for our next PvP update, slated for fall of 2014. That kinda soon is not a happy kind of soon. The exception to this rule is if soon doesnt have a limit. For example with arenas we know soon is no later than 2.4. Where as if they said arenas would come soon (not specific to 2.4) than this would be a different story because soon might mean 1 year from now, or 1 week from now. Take 2.0. We heard terms of soon starting around 1.3? I remember around 1.6 people trying to figure out what "Very soon" meant, which was another 7 months away. In this case we know soon is probably a few weeks and no later than 2.4

yes and Bioware could charge an admission fee, and at the end the fans can rush the field and annilate the victor.

Any recent datamines out there? Its always fun to speculate on what it could be.... I Know the last set of datamines had info in regards to dreadmasters, treek, Czerka and 3 arena maps Since info on all thats pretty much released....whats the new data mining say about our 8-ball future?

Didnt dulfy already release her info? I know htere is a post about tantauns and pics of the new Arenas