And afterwards the Rebellion will free the galaxy from Sith oppression anyways Let's say I got 1000 Credits. General Grievous vs Mandalore the Ultimate difficult to say, I bet 50Cr on Grievous Tyber Zann vs G0-T0* I'll place 100Cr on G0-T0 Revan* vs Skere Kaan I bet 300Cr on Revan Darth Malgus vs Prince Xizor I bet 300Cr on Malgus Darth Traya vs Darth Plagueis Not that easy to say, still, I'll bet 100Cr on Plagueis Exar Kun vs Naga Sadow really difficult to say, I bet 50Cr on Exar Kun (only because I like him more)

No, according to their calender they simply start a new Baktun (~400 years) today. But the temples are controlled by the Mexican government now and even the Maya have to pay like tourists to entry them. /OT

Don't worry, the next flashpoint will put flashpoint enemies against each other. Your arguments sound convincing. But I also got the impression that the Black Talon has a lot more troops (well, you normally kill them, but in this scenario they are still alive).

Well, probably the numbers get so high when they started to force every Force sensitive into training. They did at some point, didn't they?

True. He simply doesn't explain why they joined forces. Marka Ragnos could just as easily appear to them in an all-out battle, but only they saw him. If one day the write a book or make a movie out of this material, I hope they'll change it. (Also, the image of the Jedi imprisoning Exar Kun's spirit in the temple looks alot more intense than creating the wall of light from orbit.) Well, but these are just details. These comics are still my favorite Star Wars comics.

I'm leaning towards Chaos (for Sith) and Netherworld of the Force (without the strength to appear as ghost again), but that's just personal taste There is one thing I didn't like about the Great Sith War is how Exar Kun sneaked into the palace and dueled Qel-Droma there. It sounded so much cooler in the Timeline Video.

Well, we have no certain numbers. But we got: "We haven't come up with a definite number [for the One Sith] but it's certainly over 1,000, probably over 10,000." - John Ostrander And in universe we have: "Hundreds of them. Thousands. Jedi Masters, Jedi Knights, Jedi Padawans: an entire army of Jedi." - Kopecz Also, we know the Army of light consisted of seven legions. (Though Jedi legions might be smaller than normal legions.) So, if you want that Kaggath, you could simply say everyone gets [pick a number between 1 000 and 10 000]. Edit: Mother Talzin... hmmm... Nightsisters against Voss, maybe?

For Lord Hoth vs. Darth Kryt I'd prefer if it was mainly Army of Light vs. One Sith. Let them meet on a planet and duke it out. (That's how it was with the the Army of Light and the Brotherhood of Darkness for most of the time and it adds some variety to the battles we saw so far.)

A little of topic, but I think... ...that's not true. The Republic did stop the Empire's advance in the midrim. The Empire changed it's tactic by including Mandalorians who blockaded crucial trade route(s). After the Mandalorian Blockade was broken, the Empire had basically lost all it's advantages and was on even match with the Republic. In this situation Revan could convince the Emperor to seek peace (which included sacking Coruscant during the negotiations to get better terms). IMO without the treaty of Coruscant we would have a decades long war of attrition which would have wrecked both, Republic and Empire. (But, of course, the Republic wasn't weak at the beginning of the GGW.)

Well, if they get Ambassador Asara, they have already won in this scenario, because that's their mission. I could actually see Captain Orzik withdrawing after that (well, let the Esseles run) to avoid further damage to his ship and losses in his crew. No. In general, player characters are excluded from the Flashpoint battles. No players means the captain is still alive. He is indeed quite capable. I don't think his XO is, though. She doesn't seem to have any battle experience. I think she has always been on the transport ship and hopes to get promoted to a better ship soon. (She also seems young enough to assume she is at the starting point of his career. The Captain on the other hand seems to have enough battle experience. Judging by the facts Bird_of_Thunder posted, the Black Talon seems to have the edge here. Yes, it has. And better ones than the Black Talon, iirc. Given that if the Esseles manages to run away, the Black Talon has basically failed it's mission, this might be an advantage of the Esseles to consider. Thanks for all replies so far.

Well, confidence seems a little more complicated... Captain Orzik is clearly quite competent, but the rest of his crew seem like idiots. Especially his XO. (Kilran's droids seems like the most intelligent crewmember after the captain.) First Officer Haken and the bridge crew also seem like idiots, but we don't know about the Captain. Commander Narlock, Ambasador Asara and Chief Salen seem quite competent, though.

Inspired by the Kaggath series, I decided to start another vs series. I will present some scenarios which lead the forces seen in different Flashpoints to face each other. (Some outcomes might also be included in an overall narrative.) In theory this might better be posted in the Story and Lore section, but STAR WARS Discussion has become the place for most vs debates so I'd rather keep it here. The rules will be adjusted in every battle. Only two overall rules will stand: Level doesn't matter (it can be assumed all participants are level 50) No involvement of player characters Most armies seen here will be the players enemies in the game. But there are some exceptions, like this one: Esseles attacked by Black Talon Scenario: Grand Moff Kilran has sent the Black Talon to intercept the Esseles and capture Ambassador Asara. Location: Space The Esseles is a Wanderer-class transport ship. These are former corvettes, stripped of most of their armament and converted for mostly civilian use. The Esseles has a small Security Team lead by Commander Narlock. I'm not sure if it has starfighters aboard. I counted two bombers in tha hangar bay, but they might as well be on a transport instead of being in a condition to use. Important Crewmembers: Captain Tyrus, First Officer Haken, Commander Narlock, Chief Engineer Salen, Ambassador Asara The Black Talon is a Gage-class transport ship. Similar to the larger Terminus-class destroyer, the Gage-class lacks the armament of it's brother, but still has it's heavy armor. The Black Talon Transports a squad of marines. It also has a fighter squadron. Important Crewmembers: Captain Revinal Orzik, Lieutenant Sylas, Imperial Lieutenant commanding the marines Special Rules: Attempts to run, negotiate or give up are allowed. Would the Black Talon succeed and bring the captured ambassador home? Upcoming flashpoint battles: Darth Ikoral vs Prophet of Vodal (old school Kaggath) Darth Serevin's Quest to find Revan (Battle of Ilum vs. Taral V and after that Maelstrom Prison) Which would you like to see first?

I won't put Hammer Station against the Mandalorian Raiders, though. Instead, the Varad Clan will participate in the Colicoid war games. And Hammer Station... well, you'll see.

Well, I think I'll indeed start the flashpoint battle series. (Today with Black Talon against Esseles.) But if you want to, don't worry about using flashpoint and operation bosses in your Kaggath series. Btw. Hammer Station would win, one asteroid is enough

Actually, Japan had already lost the war on grand scale when the nuclear bombs were dropped. At that point of the war it was only a question about how to end the war: atom bomb them to surrender, starve them with a sea blockade or invade the Japanese main island. I agree with internaty that the Galactic Empire's industrial capacity will be a huge advantage. If the SE should win the war, it has to win it fast. In a war of attrition, the GE will inevitably gain the upper hand. It doesn't seem like it controlled every planet of these 63.6%. You see in Tor that there are a lot of independent planets in between. All in all, I get the impression that after the treaty of Coruscant when it comes to direct control the Republic controls around 25% and the Empire 20% of the galaxy (during the war it was probably the other way round). Rest are allies, independent worlds, other superpowers etc. But having more planets won't win the war, it really depends on which planets you got.

I could actually see this battle going either way. Dumbledore's abilities seem more versatile, while Sidious' seem more destructive. (You know, Dumbledore can awake statues to life. Sidious can create Force storms which destroy entire fleets. Both have some certain advantages: Dumbledore: IIRC HP spells, if performed correctly, always work. For example, you can break away from mind control, but you can't break away from the Imperius Curse. Sidious: He is a master swordsman. With a lightsaber. If he uses it, Dumbledore is dead within seconds. (A shield spell might save him though.) I think if Dumbledore started the battle with the Killing Curse, he would win. (It can't be blocked and if performed correctly, it's a insta kill.) But he won't. In fact, he will hold back the entire time. Sidious won't. The outcome will depend on decisions and reactions of both in the battle. Sidious has the edge, I think, because he doesn't hold back. But one false move might turn the tide. Remember, however, both are manipulative bastards and probably won't face each other in person, but instead use their pawn. (And, sorry, and Army of Stormtroopers >> a tiny group of wizards. Vader vs. Harry/Hermione/Ron might be interesting, though. For Vader. As in "an interesting new experience".)

Yes, both have Moffs. I assumed that the Moffs on both side stay true to their allegiance. But the SE has a lot of Sith in their command chain. And most Sith will always follow their own goals. Palpatine would certainly convince some of them to join his side. Vitiate has mid control, but it only works if he sees the person face to face once. After Palpatine notices that the troops he sends against the Emperor turn against him, he wouldn't send them anymore. I'd say: If there is infighting, it will hurt the SE more than the GE. If there is no infighting... well, we already discussed this.

Yes, it is. GE and SE have huge problems with infighting. The thing is, the Rebellion did get so many support because people started to fight for their freedom. That's something the SE can't provide. And it also can't fool all the people that they can, look at what happens on Corellia in the game. Also, don't forget the Empire (as late Republic) did deal with the staged seperatists. On the other hand, I could see some Sith switching sides to Sidious. Sith don't seem to be as loyal as Moffs, but Sith are the backbone of the SE and Moffs are the backbone of the GE. Especially if Sidious forsees the plans of the Vitiate to eat them all and leakes them to selected individuals. (Btw. not everyone in the SE loves the Emperor. Many members in the DC have their own goals and supported a "might be fake"-Emperor's Voice because it served their own goals.) But, maybe this Kaggath is decided by something different: It costs too much lifes and Vitiate manages to succeed in his ritual....

Well, I'd like to throw the Sith Inquisitor and the Jedi Consular in there. Both have their own (rather different) armies and supporters. Also, Queen Talia of Onderon and Queen Amidala of Naboo might be interesting. Other combatants: -The Infernal One/Sao, with his powerbase from the Operation (Maybe we could put him against Kephess and his army from the Operation) -Lord Hoth and his Army of Light -The Voss -Empress Teta and her Armies and Fleets -Cole Centarus leading CorSec -Mentor + Directive 7 droids -The Exile with all her Forces from the Battle against Nihilus (Telos Security, Republic Fleet, Companions, Mandalorian strike force) Also, as comic relief: Sandpeople vs. Jawas (with droids) I also got the idea to simply use several Flashpoints (for example, Darth Ikorel and his forces, Prophet of Vodal and his forces, Hammer Station etc.). But maybe I should start my own flashpoint vs. flashpoint series for this instead.

Instead of more Mandos I'd like to see more Rebels. People who can't stand the Empire's oppression and take up arms to fight for their Freedom. We already have this on Balmorra and Corellia and, to a lesser extend, in disorganized slave rebellions inside the Empire, Revanites and a tiny bit of it in Malgus' "New Empire". IMO Balmorra and Corellia feel closest to the Original Star Wars movies because of this. (And, needless to say, Rebels play a much bigger role than Mandalorians in movies and EU.) With the Empire weakened by the war, Malgus and other Sith powerplays, rebellion could spread on its worlds. About the Mandos... well, maybe let Bounty Hunters choose if they want to work for the Mandos for honor or whatever or the Hutts for big cash.

Well, G0-T0 was one of a series of infrasturcture planning droids. I think they were programmed to take criminal organizations into accout, calculate the impacts of Jedi/Sith, organize interplanetary relations etc. He tried to deal with all those things in the most ressourceful way. But he still acted like an infrastructure planning droid who tries to act in the interest of the republic. G0-T0's personality actually disliked the Republic, but was still bound to the directive to serve it. Having a personality didn't make it possible to simply abandon his programming. He has to justify breaking one directive with a higher directive. Also, several other G0-T0 droids "broke". This leads me to believe, this is actually an error in the programming of the entire G0-T0 series. That doesn't mean Plagueis would find a way to exploit G0-T0's limitations. But it could be possible.

I assume G0-T0 can adapt... but only to things he knows. He has of course a huge data base and can hack into other data bases. He developed all these ideas to deal with the situation he was programmed for. We don't see G0-T0 dealing with a situation which is completely new to his programming. Maybe on Malachor, but he isn't doing much there. Plagueis would have to figure out which situations G0-T0 can adapt to and which he can't.

Well, no. The idea is to simply use unconventional strategies because G0-T0 and HK-50 can only adapt to what they have access to in their programming and databases they can hack. Plagueis could also travel to Endor and learn Ewok tactics. And Exchange underlings are to dumb for that stuff What happens if G0-T0 encounters a stituation he is not prepared for? I think we get an idea of this after he joins the Exile. He views her as his employee. This is what I would call a glitch. The situation has developed in a way he isn't able to keep up with.

I'm not as samrt as Plagueis, but I'll try: He could hide on a world with a culture far different from the galactic standard and control his operations from there. Let's say, for example, Voss. If he is enough of a threat, G0-T0 would turn his attention there. But most of his power base are droids and won't be able to adapt to the culture. And they also can't simply ignore them or blast their way through them. And everyone else G0-T0 sends won't be a match for Plagueis. If that isn't allowed, Plagueis could develop a new culture, a completely new code of honor and combat rituals for his Sun Guard. Something G0-T0 is not familiar with. For example, let the command shift after 15 minutes of battle. Order them to take droids prisoners. Let them attack primarily low priority targets. All in all this might wear down his powerbase. (I would need much more time to develop completely new but still decently effective strategies, I hope you see the genereal idea, though.) Even if G0-T0 passed that point, he would still be at the start of it. The general idea is to confront him with situations he isn't prepared for. Even at this point of consciousness, G0-T0 would probably have problems to adapt to things which aren't in his original programming.

I think things would change if towards Plagueis if he knew G0-T0 was a droid. Because then he would know that G0-T0 is limited by programming. Plagueis could try to find creative ways of attacking him, which he is not propared for. Yes, "broken" droids in Star Wars are able to think creatively, but I think to reach the level of guys like Plagueis would be unlikely to happen. (Exept if we assume G0-T0 was around from the time of KOTORII up to the Prequels.)