I think I disagree with Jerry. After Arda became round*, Valinor isn't any longer part of the planet. Its unclear if it is another planet/moon now or if it just floats there in space. The Valar seem very comparable to the Ones from the Mortis arc in The Clone Wars. They are definitly magical entities = Force entities, so I think the Death Star wouldn't affect them. ("The ability to destroy a planet is insignificant next to the power of the Force.") It wouldn't completely destroy Maiar like Sauron either, I guess. Sauron's spirit escaped from Numenor** after all, so he might be lingering around in space an it might even be easier for him to find the ring, which is also floating around in space. But what if some Jedi (many Jedi) created a permanent Wall of Light around the Ring? Would it become useless for Sauron, because he couldn't connect with it anymore? *For those who haven't read it: the World with middle earth on it was once flat. But then some humans wanted to conquere Valinor because there the immortal Valar and Elves were living and they thought they could steal Immortality from them. Iluvatar (=God) buried them under some mountains, sunk their home (the Island Numenor) into the sea and removed Valinor from Arda, while giving Arda planet shape. **Sauron was on Numenor during this time. He fell into the abyss and his physical form was destroyed. But his spirit got out of it, taking the ring with him.

@AlexDougherty: I disagree on multiple accounts. Well, on her trail she said: "Of the love or hatred God has for the English, I know nothing, but I do know that they will all be thrown out of France, except those who die there." That doesn't answer if she hated the English. But she beliefed that her emotions were irrelevant, because God wanted the English out of France. Following what you percive as the "Will of the Force", no matter your emotions, is a Jedi-like attitude. Sith do not believe in some divine right to rule, except the right to rule for the strong. These are opposites: divine right to rule for the king: no matter how weak the king is, he has the right to rule right to rule for the strong: if a ruler is weak, he needs to be overthrown, no matter what rights he claims Jedi and Sith both have Force visions. Jedi sometimes try to trigger visions through meditations. I don't know if some Jedi meditations include fasting, but I don't think it would be against the Jedi ways if they did. I know one Sith (Lord Cylpho) who starved himself to bring himself close to death. He though that when death closes in, he would see visions of the future. I doubt that Joan Darc fasted to bring herself close to death, though. By the way, she started fasting after her visions started. (While visions and hallucinations are not the same, they are pretty hard to distinguish. I'm pretty sure that there are many people in the Star Wars universe, people like Tharan Cedrax or Admiral Motti, who woult call Force visions hallucinations.) All in all, she doesn't seem more Sith like than Jedi like. She seems more like a Jedi who might be in danger of falling to the Dark Side (or maybe a fallen Jedi, but not a Sith).

The Mortis-family creating the prophecy is quite an interesting thesis. I have to think more about it. I tried to reconstruct the prophecy, but somehow what I get doesn't really fit with the formatting of the pages: In the time of [......] and despair, a chosen one is born, who will destroy the Sith and bring Bal- ance to the Force. ************************************************* *[.......] is a negative word which fits with despair. The problem is that it doesn't really fit with the needed length on the page. It should approximately go to the point where I put the red dots. Maybe they changed it for these pages. In general, the prophecy mentions the Sith, so it must have been written down after the Great Hyperspace War. But it is interesting: Why did the Jedi think the Sith were destroyed but the Prophecy still had to be fullfilled? Why does the prophecy reads like the Chosen One is born in a time of despair? (Luke would fulfill that, Anakin would not. Or would he?)

I'm reading the "in-universe" book "The Jedi Path: A Manual for Students of the Force". It has a section about the Chosen One and contains the actual wording of the prophecy. Well, almost. The pages are ripped out. (The book comes with the pages ripped out. Since it also comes with some annotations from Darth Sidious, it is likely that in-universe Sidious did that.) But some parts are still there, most interesting: The letters in [] are my reconstruction of letters we only see parts of. I'm not sure about the r, it could also be m or n. If the formatting is the same as in the rest of the book, the first line covers approximatly 1/3 of the page, while the last line covers only 1/4. That's interesting in a lot of ways. (For example that the prophecy mentions the Sith.) But maybe we could try to reconstruct it. Well, guess what the text originally said. Any ideas?

Yeah, but IMO OT Yoda is more interesting than OT Palpatine. Hmm, that puts the sister-reveal at the end of Episode 3. I'm not sure what to think about this...

Would be nice for a single player RPG though. Not in the half-***** form we see it in most Star Wars games, but in a way that the story is totally different if you defect to the other side.

I see. I agree that we need more interesting Jedi. As I said, good Jedi, but they also need to be multi-dimensional, interesting characters. If you have played Jedi Knight Chapter 1, what do you think of Master Orgus?

There is a way for Alderaan to make sense: It is unclear who captures/kills King Ulgo, but someone does. After that, there is a peace conference (Jedi Consular Class Quest). If the Light Side outcome is canon (which is most likely), all Houses agree to end the war. Alderaan stays neutral and the decision who inherits the throne is postponed. The alternative dark side outcome is that all Houses (inlcuding Organa and Thul) agree that it's all House Ulgo's fault and they have to go into exile. Ulgo doesn't agree so they all form an alliance to drive them off the planet by force. (I'm not sure how the Alderaan Bonus series interferes with this, though. I haven't played it yet.)

Yoda in the Prequels is boring, I agree on that. But do you also consider Yoda from Empire Strikes Back as boring? And the Emperor (who doesn't really do anything and doesn't get that much characterization) from Return of the Jedi as that much more interesting? YMMV, but in my opinion the Jedi didn't get boring until the Prequels. I think good characters can very well be multi dimensional. Again I'll use Lord of the Rings as example. There are quite a few good characters: Gandalf, Aragorn, Gimli, Legolas, Frodo, Sam, Merry, Pipin, Theoden, Eomer, Eowyn, Faramir, to list the major ones. Some of them may be boring, but do you consider every single one of them boring? (Of course, they aren't Jedi. But if multi-dimensional good characters are possible in general, multi-dimensional good Jedi should also be possible. IMO there are some in the Star Wars universe, for example Nomi Sunrider or Lord Hoth.) Edit: In what order did you watch the movies? If your first impression of the Jedi were the Jedi in Episode I, then I can see why you see Jedi as boring.

If you look over the fact that they were founded by crusaders, the Knight Templars and other monastic military orders were the Jedi material you are looking for. They swore vows of poverty, chastity, piety, and obedience. So we've got poeple: -who form an order -who try to protect others (the Templars were founded to protect pilgrims) -who fight in wars -who put a strong emphasis on spirituality and live a monastic life -have high ideals = knight-monks like the Jedi The same is true for the Shaolin monks and other warrior monks.

I disagree. Jedi can be interesting. In the OT, Yoda was no less interesting than the Emperor. And Luke was also interesting, IMO as interesting as Vader. I'd even say Obi-Wan was interesting. On the other Hand, Sauron isn't really that interesting and doesn't get that much characterization. Maul isn't an interesting Character either (in the movies). Jedi can be done in an interesting way. (Of course, if you make the "goody two shoes" their only character trait, they aren't interesting. And evil Mary Sues like the Bounty Hunter aren't more interesting than good Mary Sues like the Jedi Knight.)

That's not entirely certain. Neuroscience and cognitive philosophy is still working on that question. Your position is (as far as I know) the majority position among scientists. But they are still far from having even developed a complete theory about how the brain could produce consciousness.

I think I the answer is hidden in the Consular Storyline. At the end, there is a Peace summit. I would place the peace summit after King Ulgo is captured/killed. The outcome depends a little on alignment: Before he officially betrays the Empire, Darth Malgus helps the Republic to undo almost all of the Empire's advances. The Empire can ship off some of the crystals, but Malgus grabs them. So Ilum goes back to Republic, basically the same as Corellia.

Still, IMO Baras and Zash get more characterization. If I remember correctly, Thanaton's main character trait is paranoia. He is memorable indeed, but so is Syo Bakarn, even though he is a very stereotypical Jedi.

Well, the Jedi masters in the Empire stories do indeed get very little characterization and 90% is also mischaracterization. In generel you're right, the Sith characters do get better characterization. Some Jedi Masters do have potential, though. Especially Orgus and Braga. But you only see them for one chapter, which is kinda sad. Also, Jaric Kaedan. I'd love if he had been more important throughout the story. (Guess I'll have to write some fanfic.) There is also Syo Bakarn. He isn't that interesting, but I still thing when it comes to charecterization he is comparable to Thanaton.

That was the first crusade. As far as I know, the blood didn't stand to their knees literally, but they sure did kill lots of people, including lots of civilians. The reasons seem to be more complicated, though. If I remember correctly, it started out with the Byzantine Emperor calling for help against the Turks. And then the Pope was all like: "Hey, if we are already heading there, lets take back Jerusalem." The rest is common knowledge. But even the first crusaders may still be more like Jedi than like Sith. The Sith have rarely been Well-Intentioned Extremists. The Jedi on the other hand have been there at least once, during the First Great Schism. But, this thread asks for glorious Jedi, and even if the crusaders in the first crusade might have been Jedi-like, they sure weren't glorious Jedi.

The crusades were a little more complicated. (The truth resists simplicity.) I guess we can't discuss it in detail. But Saladin and Richard didn't start it, they joined an already ongoing war. So it is possible that both were Jedi-like persons who happened to be born on different sides. (But both commited cruelties too.)

I disagree on some points: 1. I see no reason for this. Are sentient droids more dangerous than organic sentients? Of course, if it is forbidden to create sentients in general, than AIs have to be included. 2. That's a difficult point. Imagine a droid did gain sentience, but you memory-wipe it, you basically destroy a sentient. On the other hand, no memory-wipes could also lead to errors which produce a dangerous but non-sentient droid. I'm not sure how to handle this. 3. Which tests would you perform to determine if a droid is sentient? I firmly disagree on this: "...if it passes then it should be studied so that other droids can be prevented from doing so, then either dismantled if it is potentially dangerous or allowed to exist in a limited perimeter." If it is sentient, the same rights apply to it, as to organic sentients. You cannot simply kill a Wookie, because he is potentielly dangerous, so dismanteling a sentient droid shouldn't be allowed either. Same for the limited perimeter: The same thing has been done to sentients, but it isn't considered morally right. Even studying the droid should depend on his permission.

A very interesting topic. I'm not sure if it is against the rules, though. I'll start with some Roman Emperor's, because they are far in the past: Glorious Sith: Caesar and Augustus, both were extremely powerhungry and clever on their way to power. When they allied themselves with others, it always ended in war until they were the absolute rulers. Glorious Jedi: Marcus Aurelius and Vespasian, both were wise rulers who tried to act for the benefits of everyone. IIRC both were significantly less corrupt, tried to improve life for those people at a disatvantage etc. Of course, all of them wouldn't be perfect Sith or perfect Jedi. They all did some things which look more like something the opposite side would do. Still, legends would tell them as early examples.

(According to the Advanced Class Trainer for Sith Warriors in SWTOR, Naga Sadow developed a Marauder-like fighting style. So he is kind of a warrior.) Of course, Exar Kun will win this duel. But a one-on-one seems more his way of doing things then simply blasting his enemy with his fleet. And of course he will notice if Sadow tries the Supernova-thing and avoid it. (But it won't come to this, since it is against the rules.)

Wouldn't Exar Kun try to board the sphere and duel Naga Sadow to gain insight in some more of his secrets?

The problem with droid rights is that there is a fluent passage between programmed machines and sentient droids. You can't draw a clear line. I think things should be handled like this: 1. Forbid memory wipes. With droids, they basically kill a developing person. (Note, however, that this stems from the same attitude which lets me argue against abortion in real life. So this one is up to in-universe-debate, I guess.) 2. Shutting a droid down, scrapping it, sending it on dangerous tasks etc. requires the consent/permission of the droid. Now, most importantly: It is allowed to create droids which are programmed to always agree to such tasks. If a droids starts to say "no", it is a sure sign that it has surpassed its programming. 3. A droid gains the rights of a sentient by asking for them or claiming them. If a droid communicates to his owner "I want to enjoy the rights of a sentient.", the owner has to agree*. He has to bring the droid to the responsible government agency where the droid gets some forms which confirm him as a sentient. *I imagine some insurances would cover this and some companies would grant XX-years guarantees so you get a new droid if your old one declares himself a sentient.

Hmm, is there the possibility that Sadow's forces didn't see the illusions? Because if that's the case, even a single warrior might kill an entire army, while everyone is busy fighting illusions. Also, if the illusions work on all senses, you fill feel injured when the illusions appear to injure you. This will decrease your fighting skills and a real warrior is even more likely to finish you off.

I'm not sure if it is necessary for them to kill to influence a battle significantly. Imagine you are fighting one opponent, both equipped with melee weapons. Now add three other illusions of opponents, but you don't know who is your real enemy. The chances that the real one will kill you are a lot higher, because you will try to defend yourself against all of them.

Well, Exar Kun has pretty much everything Naga Sadow has + the Krath Cult + Mandalorians. Exar Kun is also familiar with Sith illusions. And one-on-one he seems to be the better duellist. I agree that this one goes to Exar Kun. (And he will be the one to defeat Darth Traya in the next round.) Edit: Do the other Mandalorian Warriors count as part of Exar Kun's powerbase?