Threat boost!

You mean my Droid Juggernaut needs a cape?

I meant for anyone in general, not exclusively you All credit for the spreadsheet goes to Argath Are you sure you posted the correct numbers for your stats, specifically the rating numbers? They seem very high. Mine looks something like this (i'm using the hybrid vengeance spec to try it out): 7100 armor 49.99% Damage Reduction 370 Defense rating 120 shield rating 88 absorb rating 120 accuracy 90 surge That gives a total of 788 stat points to distribute. Maybe I missed some, I'll have to write it all down. Would be nice to have a SWTOR-armory...

I don't understand your reply - do you mean that BioWare must start from a blank slate and not look to other tried and tested models to derive any sort of helpful information?

An AOE pull would be neat too, but so would unicorns juggling lightsabers

God's gift to earth right there. I have goosebumps

Again I have to say that this isn't a self improvement issue (which I would be fine declaring if that was the case), it is a quality improvement for the game mechanics. I can compensate for this threat imbalance just fine, and I have been all along. You misunderstand if you think that I taunt juggle with the DPS through the whole fight.

Thats actually exactly how I read your post, you still get a passing grade for clarity. Again I have to say that this isn't a self improvement issue (which I would be fine declaring if that was the case), it is a quality improvement for the game mechanics. I can compensate for this threat imbalance just fine, and I have been all along. You misunderstand if you think that I taunt juggle with the DPS through the whole fight. The original idea of "please boost immortal threat" is just one way of handling what is going on; it may not be the best or even a permanent way to help with the flow of the game, but it is a start in the right direction. Other ideas: - Target of target: this way you can see who took aggro without having to find out when their face gets smashed in - Interceding on an enemy will jump to their target: this is more along the lines of what the skill is supposed to do, IMHO - Meters: I'm a big fan of dps/threat/healing/etc meters, but I am not marching around waving the flag of "OMG NEED RECOUNTZ". - Threat level indication: Percentage indicator, red/yellow/green, etc.. whatever way you can see your threat level on the target

Exactly what I was thinking

Someone take a picture, two lamebrains are holding hands. What advice are you here to give? When did I say I was the greatest tank, or even a good tank? If I mentioned a rotation, I'm pretty sure I qualified it as a whack-a-mole rotation, where you just use the most useful skill based on threat, survivability, or resource generation.

Somewhere around here: "The Jugg is fine, really. " Here was your perspective: "NEWS FLASH: Everyone complains about something. Complaining does not mean something is broken. With that said, shape the f*ck up." I don't see any question marks in there, so how did you pose a question? You just said "l2play whiner noob" Yes, I want the game to play itself, I love watching video game movies on my gaming laptop... (this is sarcasm) I jump into combat and then mash my face on the keyboard and wonder why I lose aggro. Isn't that what I'm supposed to do? (this is also sarcasm) What do you picture in my mind when I say there is a problem with threat? That I pull the boss and never get him back again? That I start the fight with a taunt and the instant it wears off my group is running for their lives? Yeah, I facerolled my way into all of my columi/rakata gear. Whine and apparently throw underhanded jabs.

No - it was still possible to lose aggro in WoW depending on which patch it was, but there were ways to monitor your threat levels and adjust accordingly. I'd love to hear what you think the differences are between my tanking and your tanking. I charge in, stand around picking my nose, and type "?? *** ??" in genearal chat when I lose aggro... That must be what you think is going on. The fact of the matter is that this is still a new game that has a lot of balancing issues to go through, and I find it amazing that when one of them is brought up by many people that there are dissenters who want nothing of the sort to take place. If you are so happy with the game then go play it and quit posting here to serve your e-ego's.

Really, no replies? I thought this was some good info!!

Yeah, because I have nothing better to do than make up wild accusations and rig the game for my own benefit. Do you think before you type this stuff? What you just said is "you are all complaining self-serving noobs". Get off your high horse and pull your head out of your ***. Immortal Juggernaut threat DOES NOT PROPERLY SCALE AND NEEDS TO BE FIXED. It's close to right, but not quite. It is entirely possible for a player to not experience this problem given the correct group makeup (DPS player actions and gear level). What I find interesting is that you agree that there needs to be a rework on the threat for this class but you keep flaunting that you have no problems with it. Then in the next breath you complain about people who are bringing up the issue. WHICH IS IT?

And just because you say it's fine it's fine. Case closed.

If BH and SA have the same problems tanking, please let me know. Otherwise the analogy doesn't fit since we would have 3 different cars on the road ;-) broken game is broken If you say you never had any problems tanking, then who am I to disagree. There just happens to be a number of other players who do have threat issues playing immortal juggernaut that seem to point to a bigger issue. "Where there's smoke..." I agree, and that's actually what I have been doing to help prevent loss of aggro

Quoted for truth If you go back over the WoW patches and look at threat it has always been a changing issue. Don't you think the wisdom of such a development team as theirs would have GOOD REASON to set threat levels to 600% for a patch or two? (lol you can read that in so many ways, gg blizzard)

Would you still play that build if the 4% endurance boost was on the immortal tree instead? Just curious. I think most hybrid tanks are "lol-look-at-mah-healthz"

To your quote, its funny but conceited and borderline delusional - of course my experience as a tank in other games gives me authority to speak on tanking in another game, the concept is the same. To think otherwise proves how good you are at logic. To your own statement, did you consider that other tanks in the game are trying to level/gear up with possibly another DPS in the group that far out-gears them? I'd wager that you completed the content with players you were equally geared or more geared than. That, and you might have even been playing with BAD DPSers who can't put out the right damage! For anyone who says "just let the tank get 5 seconds of threat in the beginning" has probably not been in enough boss fights where every second counts. I would eat the humble pie if I was knowingly or unknowingly playing the game wrong, but I'm not the only one having this problem with threat.

Maybe you always had equal or higher gear than your DPS counterparts... When I hit 50 on my juggernaut, I got lost in what I was supposed to actually be doing at max level. The Ilum quests were boring and the whole daily commendation grind is a horrible horrible joke. So I started leveling an operative healer. After doing some research on what the hell I was supposed to be doing to prepare for OPS I decided to go back to my tank to do Flashpoints. I found that the DPS I was picking up already had a large jump on me with gear. While I would conceed the point that I should not expect to keep threat from overgeared (or itchy trigger finger) DPS players, at this stage in the game it does not seem to serve well that immortal juggernaut tanks should have such a hard time with single targets for any reason. They are supposed to be the tank of tanks, melee brute force meat shields that keep the attention of even the biggest boss. Fast forward to now - I'm in full tioneese/columni/rakata gear and if I miss a single piece of my "rotation" (i'd call it whack-a-mole instead) then I lose threat to the DPS. STILL. At first I was willing to think that I was a super bad newbie that hadn't gotten the hang of a new game, but now I'm convinced that immortal juggernaut threat is in need of repair.

I play an immortal juggernaut tank and I whole heartedly agree that it needs a boost to threat. I have done EV and KP only once or twice but I have done Flashpoint HM's enough to be in all Tioneese/Columni/Rakata (crafted) gear. I leveled from 10 to 50 as immortal juggernaut. I have extensive play experience in other games as a tank, and this one is definately broken at the moment when it comes to threat generation.

Found a good link: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=288619 and the OP Agrath created a spreadsheet http://dl.dropbox.com/u/5556607/Tanking%20Stat%20Distribution%20Analysis.xlsx looks like you should stack defense until you get to 500 rating, then go for absorb and shield, first at a 2:1 ratio, then later at a 5:4 ratio with more in your pool of stat points. Thats if I understand the charts correctly... So you have a total of 1172 stat points that should be 500 defense 359 absorb 313 shield EDIT : Dangit - I missed the part of the spreadsheet where he put an imaginary cap on defense at 500. Basically the chart scales all the way up to 800 defense then it falls back a little with absorb being introduced and shield So you have a total of 1172 stat points that should be 736 defense 260 absorb 176 shield I'm not sure its even possible to reach 736 defense....

Your question is actually way more complicated than it may seem on the surface. What needs to be considered is not only your gear but also the fights you will be in. For instance, a tech heavy fight versus a melee heavy fight with pushback and slows. There are going to be so many "sweet spots", as you said, that they will become irrelevant unless you have multiple gear-sets. You also did not post your accuracy, which should NEVER be neglected. You can have 99% in all defensive stats, but if you miss the boss you will lose aggro and thus still be a bad tank. I've stumbled across some semi-theorycrafting threads but they mostly come down to pen and paper theoretical math and vaccum situation simulations, neither of which should be definitive agrument for any specific "best stats". I would venture to say that you would want to find out which stats diminish the quickest, which I think is what you were trying to ask in the first place.

I posted this in another thread and just wanted to keep it from being buried. The theory would be a rotation like this in a multi-mob scenerio: Charge/enrage (whatever the skills are called) > smash > sunder > sweep > retaliaiton > tab target + sunder > force scream > sweep > tab target + sunder > smash > retaliation Something along those lines. I'd save the hard hitting sunder for main targets since it consumes so much rage, and sweep is already a rage drain. Sometimes I have to assault (basic attack) but it's rare since sunder is so much better IMO.

I was asking for an immortal threat boost because I'm already aware of the Vengeance Hybrid build. I think it's interesing but seems gimmicky at best and highly situational. Without DPS/threat/mitigation/healing/etc meters it is all a pen and paper numbers game that cannot be relied on but so much. The crux of the problem is that what is supposed to be the tanking tree is broken, which forces players to look for gimmicks and cheap tricks to play the game (to agree with your wanting to quit rant).